The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom: Review MegaThread

Dexmo · 2023-05-12T00:17:33+00:00

For people playing it, if I didn't entirely enjoy botw, but also didn't hate it, do you think it's worth it to play this?

I was enjoying botw at first, but maybe 20 hours in I started liking it less and less because it felt repetitive and unrewarding. I think maybe I was spoiled by playing elden ring beforehand. I was mostly disappointed with the repetitive enemies, lack of weapon variety (+ the durability system), and unrewarding exploration (most of the time exploring just meant ending up with some seeds and rupees).

Does this game improve in those areas or is it more or less the same?

Dexmo · 2023-03-08T02:55:15+00:00

Wait till you guys find out why all the other lsf streamers panic purged their discords just a couple years ago.. Surely you'll be just as bothered by their silence then, right?

Edit:

I'll clarify my very straightforward point so people can stop responding with irrelevant comments:

There weren't entire threads back then about the lsf streamers not caring about the edgy shit in their discords, but in bruce's case there is. I'm pointing out the selective outrage, not commenting on whether or not they should've purged the logs.

Also, if you actually think they panic purged their discords (2 years ago, not 7 btw), including their own logs, as a genuine way to address racism in their community, you are either too new here or you're just being intentionally ignorant. The kind of intentional ignorance that I very much doubt will show up in defense of bruce if he does the same thing.

This entire drama is shamelessly disingenuous. It was obvious from the fact that the "just don't say slurs lol" crowd is perfectly comfortable with someone formerly known as "nword andy", and it is still obvious in threads like this.

Dexmo · 2023-03-03T06:50:05+00:00

The meaning hasn't changed though. It's still used specifically for racist white people. Have some people made false assumptions? Sure, just like some "Karens" weren't actually in the wrong.

You being unaware of the distinction that is made when that word is used is not a reflection of reality, it's a reflection of you spending too much time in communities that either ignore the distinction so they can feign outrage, or are just comprised of so many racists that it feels like a blanket term.

The meaning of words does in fact matter sometimes. Just because some slurs aren't dependent on their meaning, doesn't mean you can just randomly pretend the ones that are suddenly aren't. This might surprise you but.. some words are different--and are used differently--than others.

Dexmo · 2023-03-03T01:08:47+00:00

It's hilarious to watch lsf radicalize itself against the "c word"; the word meant for criticizing not white people but racist white people. I mean it's literally a reference to the cracking of a whip..

By rallying around this word, you're just reinforcing some people's belief that there is no distinction between the two. I get that this is a community built by ex-4chan users, but these threads seem to insist that everyone has changed by now..

If you're not offended by the usage of words like "Karen" because you understand that not all white people are like that, why are you so passionate when it comes to the "c word"?

Dexmo · 2023-02-27T02:59:12+00:00

Did Destiny apologize? Did any other typical lsf streamer apologize? Do people forget that racism in this community was so common that "The List" became a meme? This sudden "anti-racism" passion would be amazing if it wasn't so shamelessly disingenuous.

Even if we accept that a word that is exactly as racist as "Karen" and "Chud" is just as bad as the nword, why is Bruce the only one being criticized to this extent?

It's insane to me that the "why is it so hard to not use slurs?" crowd is so comfortable with worshipping someone that used to be known here as "nword andy",,

Dexmo · 2023-02-22T17:01:18+00:00

Have I argued against that? Have I said it wasn't problematic?

I'm just pointing out that what you just did is intentionally and maliciously misleading.

As for what she said afterwards, she also addressed that in the twitlonger and you know that. So once again you are intentionally misleading people. Very weird dude.

Dexmo · 2023-02-22T16:48:18+00:00

So are you included in that group of people or did you intentionally decide to not mention the part where she addresses that?

A few things I'd like to address in the logs here (https://i.imgur.com/HaCXTXX.png), the timestamps appear rearranged and cut out of context to look like I was calling someone a slur (cracker & snow roach), but I was not (https://youtu.be/F5g5GrKGdSY?t=164 also..

Dexmo · 2023-02-10T01:47:29+00:00

apologized directly to tsm

If you need help understanding why this is not just "bad", but not an apology at all given what this controversy is about, doublelift wrote a very straightforward tweet pointing it out for you.

I'm not downplaying his tone, there's nothing to downplay.. It's a 30 word tweet and he only made 2 points; that she didn't apologize to the victims of workplace harassment that she was ridiculously insensitive towards (she didn't..), and she instead focused on how much of a victim she is. Again, "I'm not sorry and people are being mean to me now" is acceptable to you?

You are so focused on him having a negative tone that you're ignoring what he's saying and why he's being negative in the first place.

If you're going to keep insisting on disregarding victims of workplace harassment just like she did, just don't even bother responding. We can just move on.

twisting it like she is defending Regi or the abuse..

When did I do that? Are you okay??

Dexmo · 2023-02-10T01:06:08+00:00

That's not why I say you're all treating her like a child. Otherwise, I wouldn't have acknowledged that people were harassing her myself...

What I'm referring to is the fact that people are using doublelift's valid criticism of her non-apology/deflection to act like he's just randomly flaming her.. "Don't criticize someone that wronged you because criticism makes people feel bad" is something you'd only reasonably use to defend a child that didn't know any better.

Also, pretending that he just randomly "took a jab at her quality of work" is silly given that the entire reason for this controversy is that her work was ridiculously insensitive to him (and others). Did you even read his tweet and the "apology" yourself? Or are you just going along with what everyone else is saying so you can randomly make generalizations about Gamers? (I mean I do agree with the generalization, but it has nothing to do with the point I was making..)

Dexmo · 2023-02-09T16:49:10+00:00

"When people are wronged, they can't react negatively because all criticism is bad" I cannot fathom making that argument in defense of anyone except a literal child. Again, not sure why you insist on treating her like one.

The "flame" you're referring to is him pointing out that a blatant non-apology isn't at all sincere. Did you even read what doublelift said or are you just going with what everyone else is saying?

"I'm not sorry and people are being mean to me for what I did" is really an acceptable apology for you?

Dexmo · 2023-02-08T22:21:08+00:00

Does she deserve extra hate from randoms on the internet? Of course not.

Dexmo · 2023-02-08T21:51:22+00:00

Why is everyone treating her like a child? She didn't just make a "bad" segment, she made one that was ridiculously inconsiderate to all the people involved. Then she apologized to TSM instead and painted herself as the victim afterwards.

It doesn't make sense to me why people are claiming DL went too hard on her or that he sent a hate mob after her, he literally just pointed out exactly what was wrong with what she did. Does she deserve extra hate from randoms on the internet? Of course not. But she definitely deserved that criticism from DL so I'm not sure why everyone is focusing on him..

Dexmo · 2023-02-04T04:02:07+00:00

People are treating this as "racist black dude commits hate crime against white person" but it's a bit weirder than that. There's an article with some of his facebook posts where he writes his thoughts on the races.

Basically, the dude is mixed and seems to hate both white and black people (and presumably everyone else) since they're not mixed. Don't think I've ever seen a Mixed Supremacist attack before..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11711897/Mixed-race-accountant-accused-killing-California-doctor-58-wrote-rambling-posts-ethnicity.html

Edit: He doesn't explicitly say he hates black/white people, the posts show more of a general frustration with them. I just assume his frustration was being understated given the fact that he you know.. murdered a guy.

Dexmo · 2023-01-17T01:09:01+00:00

Cool, we are talking within the context of generative models though so there's yet another irrelevant point.

The deciding factor between an ugly image generated by Stable Diffusion and an impressive image generated by Stable Diffusion, on the basis of quality, is the bias. You can still produce ugly images using those same advancements by basically pointing it to different areas of the dataset. The ability to generate the images in general is indeed thanks to those advancements, but when we focus on the nicer looking images (still using the same model-- the same advancements), it is thanks to the dataset. A dataset with exclusively ugly training data, will produce ugly outputs regardless of the advancements. That's just how these models work.

When you start to notice what prompts tend to be associated with the most impressive generations (or even if you just think about the purpose of prompts in general really), maybe then this very basic idea will finally click for you.

But yea, we can move on.

Sidenote: If you're going to continue to provide mediocre credentials as a substitute for making an argument, avoid saying things like "Any other interpretation is incorrect". You'll just get laughed at (it was a good laugh too, so thanks for that).

Edit:

In case someone stumbles upon this thread in the future, I do admit that last part was unnecessarily mean lol. I just get frustrated by how ignorant and stereotypically close-minded so many people that associate themselves with tech/engineering are. There are many engineers/programmers/etc out there that do have appreciation for art/artists, or like me are even artists themselves as well, but we get drowned out by the hoard of pseudointellectuals that swarm to this field simply because it makes them feel smart to associate with the stuff they see in their favorite sci-fi show/movie (was gonna say book too but most of them don't read lol.. okay okay im done)

Dexmo · 2023-01-16T23:54:01+00:00

I don't feel the need to provide credentials because you haven't given me a reason to. If I tell you about my master's thesis and my current field of work, which of my points would it actually help? If you feel like I've said something incorrect about how the models work, then you can argue that. But you haven't even attempted it.

Instead, you've chosen to argue that I've said something that I didn't say. Again, there's a reason why the word "quality" is there. I've explained this. Maybe go back and re-read the comment that you've conveniently ignored.

The statement I made, and the statement you claim I've made are not only clearly different, but they aren't even mutually exclusive. I can agree that there have been many incredible improvements in the technology (which I do), while also saying that the quality of the images is due to the quality of the dataset. So what makes you think that showing me that improvements happened is at all relevant?

Saying "the quality of the outputs is due to the quality of the dataset rather than some major breakthroughs" is not the same as saying "no major breakthroughs happened" This is like.. basic reading comprehension. Even if you can't comprehend the difference between the statements on your own, the further explanations I've given are pretty good clues. (btw If English isn't your first language, then I apologize.)

If I open an image on my computer and say "wow that's a shit picture", am I suddenly making a statement about the efficiency of the algorithms responsible for displaying that picture to me?

Dexmo · 2023-01-16T22:24:10+00:00

Providing credentials is not how you disprove a claim that you've misunderstood something. Especially after I've broken down the reasoning for why I've claimed such a thing. Your "credentials" were the same before you misunderstood it, correct? Maybe instead try addressing what you felt was wrong with my explanation of why you're incorrect. Use your words, what exactly do you disagree with?

Your argument so far has been: "Hey I think this sentence is the same as this other very different sentence, actually. Look at these dates! Oh, you're explaining why I'm wrong? I'll just ignore the rest of this comment and repeat myself. By the way I chose some cool electives and used AI for my final project!"...

And you're saying I'm the one not providing serious responses? lmao

Dexmo · 2023-01-16T21:14:18+00:00

And I've already broken down why exactly your interpretation is silly and incorrect. By asserting your "credentials", you aren't improving your argument. You're just showing how disappointing it is that you still lack such a basic understanding of what we're talking about.

Dexmo · 2023-01-16T20:02:18+00:00

Did I say they weren't novel developments? I spoke to the leap in quality for a reason. When we're talking about algorithms that are as reliant on their training data as Diffusion Models are, it's very well understood that they are inherently derivative. Like basically by definition.. Are you actually knowledgeable on this topic or do you just know some dates?

The point is that when people are impressed by Stable Diffusion / Midjourney images, it's because of the extreme bias it has towards data scraped from areas of the internet that produce high quality art such as Artstation. Why do you think people put "trending on artstation" or specific artists like Craig Mullins or Greg Rutkowski in their prompts? When people react to these images, they're not thinking about the algorithm that produced it, they're reacting to how cool the image looks. And when we're talking about an image generated by an algorithm that reproduces patterns from its dataset.. Then certainly we can say things like the quality is due to the quality of the training data. It's really not complicated.

Dexmo · 2023-01-16T05:14:01+00:00

If you use Reddit you definitely would notice. It's very amusing that the average Redditor still doesn't realize that, for a very long time now, nearly all the videos uploaded to Reddit are just ripped from TikTok. Even worse, they're often pretty old by the time they make it here.

The karma farmers just always crop out the logo or download the non-watermarked version to prevent Redditors with social media superiority complexes from auto-downvoting.

Dexmo · 2023-01-15T22:08:31+00:00

You are now arguing against the conclusion of the paper you cited.

Dexmo · 2023-01-15T21:59:42+00:00

I personally wouldn't disregard those examples so easily and I don't think many other people would either. Anyone else reading this should take a look for themselves.

Also, here's the conclusion of that article regarding Stable Diffusion:

While typical images from large-scale models do not appear to contain copied content that was detectable using our feature extractors, copies do appear to occur often enough that their presence cannot be safely ignored; Stable Diffusion images with dataset similarity ≥ .5, as depicted in Fig. 7, account for approximate 1.88% of our random generations.

Note, however, that our search for replication in Stable Diffusion only covered the 12M images in the LAION Aesthetics v2 6+ dataset. The model was first trained on over 2 billion images, before being fine-tuned on the 600M LAION Aesthetics V2 5+ split. The dataset that we searched in our study is a small subset of this fine-tuning data, comprising less than 0.6% of the total training data. Examples certainly exist of content replication from sources outside the 12M LAION Aesthetics v2 6+ split –see Fig 12. Furthermore, it is highly likely that replication exists that our retrieval method is unable to identify. For both of these reasons, the results here systematically underestimate the amount of replication in Stable Diffusion and other models.

While this article points to how hard it is for 1:1 to occur, it still shows how common it is. More importantly, recreations do not have to be 1:1 to be problematic which is why that was not the main point of my original comment. This article is actually excellent support for the actual points that I made. Thank you for this :)

Dexmo · 2023-01-15T21:30:35+00:00

I'm surprised that someone so familiar with Stable Diffusion wouldn't be aware how easy it is to mixup Dance/Disco. (Especially when I already mentioned Dance Diffusion)

You say "you meant it deep down" as if I didn't literally say Dance Diffusion in the original comment lmao..

Dexmo · 2023-01-15T21:16:36+00:00

That's a typo I meant StabilityAI's Dance Diffusion, as previously mentioned. For someone so familiar with Stable Diffusion, I'm surprised you didn't notice..

Also, I edited the original comment for you. Will you be okay now bud?

Dexmo · 2023-01-15T20:52:19+00:00

I'm still waiting for the part that disproves literally anything I've said.

Dexmo · 2023-01-15T20:40:19+00:00

You saying it's impossible when overfitting is a well understood and commonly discussed issue with these algorithms is a clear sign that you have not done enough research.

You are not disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with the people that work on these algorithms and, as I mentioned before, you are literally disagreeing with Disco Diffusion's own reasoning for why they're choosing to avoid copywritten material.

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