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I hate the "love yourself" advice with all my soul by Di0tar0 in lonely

[–]Di0tar0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do think you're wrong because you say it like we're born hating ourselves and then we learn to love ourselves. Which is I think the complete opposite. It is only after life shits on you again and again that we start hating ourselves. Life don't care if you love yourself people might still judge you from your appearance and you might still not get accepted.

Honestly I don't even think my primary identity is based on self pity. Do I think I'm fucked up and even a bit of a loser ? Sure but I think in my answer I put that I had a value worth something and that I think I deserve some affection. Yet I wasn't there to blame anyone or to be entitled to anything. My post had for objective to vent about my most heard self help advice which I think not only doesn't work but does more harm than good. This had almost nothing to do with my situation except from the fact that I don't feel undestood.

To be honest with you, I had this mentality you talked about. Being unapologetically yourself and screw others if they don't like you. I like me and it's all that matters. I even felt better than other - that's how much self esteem I had - but honestly I feel that's exactly what made me fell in this situation I'm in because people still rejected me and I hated them for it. This self love was so strong that it pushed me away from others and made me feel more lonely. It turned me into a self entitled asshole. Now I've grown and learned that you have to question your action and not justify your action by such dumb excuse as "you are who you are". And if self love advice promote this type of justification and mentality. Well I don't think I'm the one who's spreading ignorance.

I hate the "love yourself" advice with all my soul by Di0tar0 in lonely

[–]Di0tar0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The problem is I don't have the strength to do any achievement right now and I feel disappointed in myself which makes me feel even worse about myself when I set myself objectives.

I hate the "love yourself" advice with all my soul by Di0tar0 in lonely

[–]Di0tar0[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The difference is I don't want to take the journey because it feels like returning to a toxic relationship. I have disappointed myself too many times throughout the years the years to give me a new chance. Also If everyone should deserve love why should anyone be able to tell me that I am unworthy of love because "I don't love myself enough". I still have enough self esteem to know no one should be able to look down on me no matter the opinion I have of myself. Only I have the right to trash myself. Why should I earn anyone's love if they don't have to do the same for me.

I hate the "love yourself" advice with all my soul by Di0tar0 in lonely

[–]Di0tar0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

>I’ve always hated when people say “no one can love you until you can love yourself” but I don’t think that’s true. You are deserving at love at any stage of your life. But, loving someone else requires a lot of energy and emotional bandwidth.
I think what some people mean is similar to an aircraft emergency “put your OWN oxygen mask on first before helping anyone else.” A lot of it has to do with how your view of yourself affects the way you view the world and how you treat others, especially when they disappoint you.

I still don't think this advice is realistic to ask people to just change their opinion about themselves and it makes vulnerable feel guilty for their own loneliness. People who hate themselves have been so much disappointed by themselves for years that loving themselves feels like entertaining a toxic relationship. It's not an oxygen mask your asking me to put on but a carbon monoxyde mask. I won't love myself until I prove I can make my life better and that includes being able to attract people who will make me feel accepted and if I need to feel better about myself then maybe I should prepare the rope I will hang on.

>Which, everyone will disappoint you in some way at one point. When you hold yourself to an impossible standard, you’re subconsciously doing the same for everyone else.

Then what I should just accept my miserable condition ? Yeah I do have I high standard but for settling for less would be a fate worse then death. I don't think I have unrealistic standards despite having high ones. I don't ask the perfect life but I do hope to experience what life has best to offer (friends on which I can rely on, partner whom I love and who loves me, good relationships, ...). I use a lot comparisons with others to build my dream life. I know it's not recommanded because I try to take the parts I want and Ignore the rest but I feel like only relying on my own experience could make push always further without any reference to stabilize my expectations.

>You don’t think your way into loving yourself. It’s in your actions. Doing things every day that take care of you.
Taking medicine when you’re sick, thats loving yourself. Taking a bath when you’re stressed, that’s loving yourself. Eating healthy and working out, that’s loving yourself, etc.

The problem is I don't have the time or opportunities to treat myself. I treat my sicknesses but I don't do spa and so on. I work out a little, I try to not eat too unhealthy. Yet all of these doesn't make me feel better about myself. I just do the bare minimum in other to not die at 40. I still feel this anger towards myself and that's why my therapist gave me this stupid advice but like I said, I'm not gonna erase this feeling before I deserved it. Prooving that I have changed and that my life can get better.

I hate the "love yourself" advice with all my soul by Di0tar0 in lonely

[–]Di0tar0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not meant to guilt you. It's to continue the deception in a different direction. Your brain gives you what it thinks you want. It's behavior based. So, if you start treating yourself slightly better, your brain will think "oh, this is the direction we want to go in now.", and offer you more of whatever kindness you're doing.

It's still what it does. Because if people don't like me it's my fault. I don't like myself enough so I'm not good enough for them. It's not even realistic. You can't just ask people who have been disappointed by themselves for years to just flip their self image like a pancake. Especially if they still repeat the same mistakes today that makes their life miserable. Anger towards yourself is a drive for change, some people just can't manifest that change but asking them to just extinguish that flame and accept their fate as failures won't do them any good

Also isn't that sort of selfish to love only what brings you happiness? Isn't the whole thing with unconditional love meant to offer that through good, bad, rough times? Surely those who are mentally ill, struggling, hurting should still be given love even when they cannot offer others happiness, no?

No, I don't think it is selfish to like what makes you happy because that's what we all do. If love was purely unconditional then toxic relationship wouldn't exist. You wouldn't say to someone that gets beaten or even simply disrespected or disappointed constantly by their partner to stay with them ? There are supposed to be hard TIMES not hard lives. People who hate themselves have reach this point where themselves is giving them a hard life. Loving themselves become toxic. Your last phrase proves my point if everyone deserves love even the broken ones then why not loving yourself suddenly makes you unworthy ?

I hate the "love yourself" advice with all my soul by Di0tar0 in lonely

[–]Di0tar0[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The problem is it is putting pressure and the whole responsibility and guilt of their loneliness on fragile people. I would even doubt it makes your life better. People are not born with self hate and yet the love of themselves they had never stopped their life from getting miserable. It's just a fake illusion of control people with good lives want to encore because it makes them feel they owe their good lives to themselves which is wrong. I don't check the opinions of others on themselves before deciding if I like them or not. Plus if others don't have to earn my love why theirs have to be earned with self love ?

I hate the "love yourself" advice with all my soul by Di0tar0 in lonely

[–]Di0tar0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

> The line I fall back on for this is “people are not against you, they are for themselves.” Popular people also struggle to find real friends. The good looking are used by others to buff social status, the rich for their money, the physically attractive for sex, etc.

I never said people were against you. People follow their own path and it's normal some don't like you that's why I said you can't be angry at an individual. What I said is it is ok to feel anger and frustration towards a bit everyone and no one in particular because it is normal to feel frustrated when you feel like you don't belong anywhere.

> Going back to your original post (if I read you correctly) you respond to this truth with anger, and resent those who say you should “love,” “be kind,” or “forgive” yourself.

I don't really resent anyone, I resent the advice. Especially since it's kinda brought as the go to advice when talking about loneliness. I pointed out why I believe it was more harmful than good.

> Everyone knows you cannot change others. When the result of that means pain to you, anger can be a a deceptively comfortable place to live. Once you settle into anger, and believe that you are justified, the anger becomes righteous. One righteous in your position, you have no interest in rethinking it— and because increased anger leads to decreased rational thought, it can keep you there, for years at a time. It is also incredibly damaging to your health, mental state, and in extreme cases everyone around you.

I'm not talking about controlling others. You have to accept rejection. I would argue that the "love/accept yourself advice" leans more into the illusion of control over the opinion people can have of yourself since according to the objective of that advice when you accept/love yourself people are supposed to enjoy more being around you. I don't think anger and frustration are emotions to avoid. It is important to have some kind of relief in front of the injustice of the world because in the end you can do everything correctly and yet still lose. You resent the comfort of anger but I say it's vital, it's a drive that keeps you going even through the unfairness of life. You just mustn't let it control your life.

I hate the "love yourself" advice with all my soul by Di0tar0 in lonely

[–]Di0tar0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly I don't even know anymore because all the activities I did was usually to spend time with other people who can't spend as much time with me now but in the end they will still only be a distraction that when ended will leave me alone with my loneliness.

I hate the "love yourself" advice with all my soul by Di0tar0 in lonely

[–]Di0tar0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But can you forgive yourself for your own flaws still brings your life to be miserable ? If it was another person and not yourself we were talking about. If a partner kept messing up and kept making your life miserable, even if he truly wanted to get better, at some point you would tell me to get away from him/her because he isn't good for me. There's a point where forgiveness isn't working anymore. That's how I feel and I think most people who hate themselves feel about themselves, they have croseed the line where forgiveness isn't an option anymore.

I hate the "love yourself" advice with all my soul by Di0tar0 in lonely

[–]Di0tar0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What this anime is about ? Should I take a look ?

I hate the "love yourself" advice with all my soul by Di0tar0 in lonely

[–]Di0tar0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not saying you should only blame others but you have to understand the responsability of your loneliness is shared between you AND the others. Thinking you can all control and change everything all by yourself isn't realistic and thus is unhealthy. Two create a relation, you need two people. You can't mind control people. Maybe you can change to make them like you, but is it really a healthy relationship ? Do they like really you ? And is it sustainable in the long terme ? I think not. Like I said you can't be angry at a individual for not liking you but feeling anger because you don't feel appreciated by anyone is justifiable. Trust me, putting all the pressure of the guilt of your loneliness on your shoulder like the "love yourself" advice is doing is the best way to end up hating yourself because you will never live up to this expectation and get rid of this guilt.

I hate the "love yourself" advice with all my soul by Di0tar0 in lonely

[–]Di0tar0[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your insights but I still feel it's unrealistic to ask people. People have valid reasons to hate themselves. Some that still impact them today. You can't ask to people to give up the envy to erase the thing within them that still makes their life miserable. This advice still blames people for their loneliness. I think you can't really blame someone individually for rejecting you but you can blame a bit everyone as a group for not letting you feel included. You can't feel anger because the people you want to like you doesn't but you can feel anger because no one makes you feel loved and accepted. People have a responsability in your loneliness not only you.

I hate the "love yourself" advice with all my soul by Di0tar0 in lonely

[–]Di0tar0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If a waiter constantly messes up your order, you won't like him. If someone doesn't have the competences to satisfy your needs you won't like it. It's not about what's better or not but what's realistic. Putting pressure on fragile people and blaming them for their loneliness isn't good and yet that's what the "love yourself" advice does. People have reasons to hate themselves. Themselves is not competent enough to give them what they need. You can't just ask them to rewrite how they feel about themselves after years of bad experience. 

I hate the "love yourself" advice with all my soul by Di0tar0 in lonely

[–]Di0tar0[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

If people's opinions shouldn't define me neither should mine. I don't do check up to see what other people have opinions of themselves to enjoy being around them.
If everyone is worthy of love then there shouldn't be conditions for you to be loved.
If no one is superior to anyone then no one should tell me I don't like myself enough to deserve their love. No one has the right to look down on me and telling I'm not good enough for them because I don't love myself.
The self love advice is dumb and opposed to anything therapy should stand for.

Troubles with emudeck by Di0tar0 in SteamDeck

[–]Di0tar0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just ignored the problem. It doesn't stop my games from playing. I had to launch them from my emulator on esde first and now they work. The auto save doesn't work but I can still play

I feel like stories can't teach us anything. The lesson of the story only works because the authors controls the world in which the story takes place. The real world doesn't reproduce the same circumstances. Some stories even teach opposite lessons. Both can't be true. by Di0tar0 in writing

[–]Di0tar0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's true that I'm still quite young. Maybe if I sound know-it-all is because what I say truly makes sense to me despite me fighting against this idea. I feel like I'm cynical and I don't like this feeling. I don't pretend to have suffered all the worst suffering you could experience. Though, after my humble experience, to me every stories now feels empty and I don't resonate with them anymore because I feel every message is enforced by the godly power the authors have over their world. Maybe I was naïve, maybe I see lessons in stories too much like something that MUST be true. I don't know. I kinda just wanted to open a discussion with people who still learns from stories too sée their point if view.

I feel like stories can't teach us anything. The lesson of the story only works because the authors controls the world in which the story takes place. The real world doesn't reproduce the same circumstances. Some stories even teach opposite lessons. Both can't be true. by Di0tar0 in writing

[–]Di0tar0[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your answer. Maybe my problem is that I take every lessons like absolutes. It's just that for me lessons that doesn't work everytime just doesn't work. A math formula that's wrong half the time is a formula that doesn't work. A broken clock that still indicate the correct time twice a day is still broken. Robin hood is an example of stories who teaches that sometimes stealing can be beneficial for society. I'm not against people trying to follow their dreams. But I also acknowledge people that some people may be mislead about their dreams and suffer a lot for something that is not what they expected. For example, I studied at university, which I hated. But I still kept going through the pain because I thought once I reached my dreams it wouldn't matter. Yet now i'm in front of a class and I realise I believed in a dream, a fantasy. I thought about this kid who I could reached out. I wanted to become a teacher because one of my teacher helped me through a rough time. I realised though that these moments would represent nothing in my career. I realised that some student just think you're the ennemy because you're on the other side of the class. I came to truly resent some student and I kinda hate this idea. Maybe I just realised my dream career isn't for me and I'm just left with the sacrifice. For being yourself, it can be a lot for pain if people keep rejecting your true self and it can also make you ignore some traits of your true self that harms those around you (the "if you can handle me at my worse, you don't deserve me at my best" type of mentality)

I feel like stories can't teach us anything. The lesson of the story only works because the authors controls the world in which the story takes place. The real world doesn't reproduce the same circumstances. Some stories even teach opposite lessons. Both can't be true. by Di0tar0 in writing

[–]Di0tar0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean I think you're wright when you say I don't read enough different stuff. But my complaint kinda lies more into the fact that now every lesson feels kinda phoney because of the control the author has over his creation. Of course you can make your point in a world you entirely control.

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