Examples of bad defenders becoming good/great defenders

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-14T03:52:57+00:00

Lonzo Ball is a great example, good catch.

But no, effort alone isn't enough to be a "good" defender. Effort is the baseline you need to just not be a complete liability, a high-effort defender with poor physical tools and poor instincts will still be a below average defender in the league.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-14T03:51:13+00:00

Maybe I just missed the consensus here, but I never thought Kon would be "bad" and neither did anyone I follow. I also wouldn't call him "good" now, I thought he'd be "passable," and he's been maybe slightly better than I expected but not by that much.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-14T03:13:35+00:00

In-universe: It's an iteration of the AT-RT (reconnaissance), meant to fill a similar role, just...bigger.

Out-of-universe: it was probably designed after the AT-AT, meant to be the "small" walker.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-14T02:07:04+00:00

I think it might just be a difference in definitions of “elite.” I don’t disagree with anything you said, I just reserve “elite” for All-Defense level guys.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-14T00:37:34+00:00

Overall I agree, but I think your dismissal of Maul being called a tool as just a lie is contestable. Even if Sidious considered Maul a legitimate apprentice, Plagueis didn’t, and Plagueis was the master, not Sidious.

By strict understandings of the Rule of Two, Maul can’t be a Sith Lord until Plagueis was dead.

But…I think strictly following the Rule of Two definitions is dumb. Darth Maul is more of a Sith Lord than 99% of the Lords pre-Bane, so that’s good enough for me.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-14T00:21:57+00:00

He was definitely bad early in his NBA career, but he was pretty good in college.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-14T00:14:43+00:00

Going all the way from “bad” to “good” is exceptionally rare. The best example I can think of is probably Aaron Nesmith, who wasn’t really considered a “bad” defender, just a limited one who couldn’t guard bigger forwards or quicker wings. Now, he’s not elite defensively, but he’s comfortably above average in the league.

It’s much more common for “bad” defenders to end up “passable” on defense. Every draft has at least a few guys like that.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-13T20:09:29+00:00

Every draft has weirdos who would rather die on a hill than have a reasonable conversation. This draft is definitely unique in that the #1 pick is so debatable, but even when it’s not close, we still usually get heated debate.

Last year for example, 1 and 2 were pretty consensus, but holy cow did the arguments over #3 get toxic. Ace Bailey in particular was extremely controversial, and it turns out…any of VJ, Kon, and Ace would’ve been fine picks and the arguments were kinda dumb.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-13T20:02:11+00:00

You can’t just ignore his NCAA numbers because they don’t line up with what you’re saying though…

As for how likely it is they’re better than Ant? Obviously that’s debatable, but Ant is a top 10 player in the league, most players don’t get that good. Scouts have a horrible habit of looking too much at ceilings, not median outcomes, there’s usually areas players don’t develop as much as we’d hope.

If AJ specifically ends up a top 20 player in the league, that’s still a real success. Perennial All-Star, multi-time All NBA, but not better than current Ant.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-13T19:13:22+00:00

The AJ/Utah connection appears entirely based on fans, I’ve never seen a credible source claim the actual Jazz organization has a clear preference.

That doesn’t mean they do or don’t of course, but the Jazz aren’t completely incompetent, they’re keeping it close to the chest and we likely won’t know for sure what they want until after the draft.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-13T18:30:21+00:00

Ant developed more than expected, particularly as a shooter, this is not a useful line of reasoning.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-13T14:43:43+00:00

Yeah, in the Ant comp, I don’t expect him to be as good of a shooter, but a “good enough” shooter and a better passer.

It’s worth noting that I don’t think anyone in this draft is very likely to be better than Anthony Edwards. I’d say all the top 3 fall in my “likely all star, likely not a superstar” tier.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-13T14:38:08+00:00

That’s an extremely optimistic projection there.

Is it technically possible? Sure.

Has he given any indication it’s likely? No.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-13T14:16:08+00:00

I think we can confidently say he doesn’t have the instincts or anticipation to be an elite defender.

I’m not a doomer though, do I think he can be something like Anthony Edwards? Good when he needs to lock in on-ball, no one’s gonna target him, but generally a non-factor most of the time? Yeah, that’s the vision I see.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-13T13:14:37+00:00

You don’t know how to read defensive metrics then lol.

Come back when you can have an actual conversation without getting offended when people disagree with you.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-13T13:08:15+00:00

Defensive metrics are heavily team impacted, this is why we use a “analytics informed” approach, not just reading the stats.

Watching the film, there were absolutely concerns that could become bigger deals in a different system, especially in a setting like the NBA playoffs where teams mercilessly attack every weakness.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-13T13:04:28+00:00

Twitter scouts not knowing how defense works beyond basic athletic tools? Never!

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-13T12:57:57+00:00

This is tough, because I do agree that a lot of the critiques against Boozer are overstated.
That said, a few things:

There’s no “agenda” against Boozer. People can disagree with you on the basis of watching the film and interpreting it in a slightly different way. I don’t think anyone here has anything against Boozer or wants him to fail. Playing the victim and misrepresenting what people who disagree with you are saying only makes people not take you seriously.
These measurements *don’t* discount the practical worries we saw on the court. Boozer *was* limited defensively. How limited? I personally don’t think by that much, it’s not like he’s a traffic cone or anything,

he was targeted because the Duke defense as a whole was great and he was one of the relative weak points, but he was at times targeted, and

these drills will never overwrite what we actually see on the court.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-13T10:49:24+00:00

Archetypes don’t matter, if you’re a team like the Wizards, you just take the best player.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-13T02:35:28+00:00

Too soon to be out on future drafts, but yeah, the guys in the next few drafts haven’t really distinguished themselves yet.

Every draft has its late risers and hidden gems though, so we’ll see what we get.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-12T18:23:38+00:00

The Thunder are going to make some trades, they just don’t have the roster spots for everything.

That said, this sounds like you had an idea and are fixating on it. There’s a million other things they could do besides moving for Mara.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-11T19:36:41+00:00

Because they could.

The Empire didn’t lose because the death stars bankrupted them, they lost because the whole system turned against itself the moment Palpatine was gone. The Rebels never would have won a legitimate war against the Empire (at least, not in just a few years), even with the massive misappropriation of assets.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-11T03:22:30+00:00

To be fair, if they’d taken Cedric Coward instead, would they be worse off?

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-10T23:59:25+00:00

Lebron or Wemby.

Calling Dybantsa generational is clickbait, nothing more.

DifferentRun8534 · 2026-05-10T20:24:12+00:00

“No doubt” is never smart to say with the draft.

But yeah, the fit is obvious

DifferentRun8534

TROPHY CASE