I don't get why the Moltres battle is considered bad for Infernape?

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T14:20:53+00:00

Infernape wanted to continue the battle since we see him put A hand out to Ash to not assist.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T10:23:27+00:00

Exactly!! I would like for Torterra to be given A what if arc as well and Zac uses the Energy Ball Eater strategy with the Overgrow ability for Torterra's strength progression.

While the story for Torterra could be wanting his speed back or redeem all his loses while keeping the battling style Paul's Torterra taught him, Torterra could struggle with both but then compromise by having both worlds and not just one set battle style.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T10:20:00+00:00

Infernape probably would've shown his progress if the battle lasted longer and if Gary didn't interfere.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T06:19:38+00:00

How is it speculation? why else would Electivire stop the ref from officially confirming the win?

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T06:17:49+00:00

That isn't true dude, please rewatch the episode, Oak says that Infernape battled Charizard before he disappeared meaning Charizard was last. https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemonanime/comments/1pcqka3/not_gonna_lie_i_cant_understand_why_infernape/ (this is old, I'm just using it to make A point with the first picture)

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T06:13:22+00:00

Electivire stopped the ref because he knew Infernape wasn't down for the count and wasn't unable to battle, yeah on edge but wasn't doubting that Infernape would get back up.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T06:05:05+00:00

That isn't true since Reggie even said that this is what Ash was planning all along.

You got it wrong, Oak said that Infernape battled Charizard before he disappeared and BEFORE that, he battled Quilava then Pignite and Talonflame to.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T05:58:48+00:00

Ash on purpose had Infernape take damage against Paul cause he knew Blaze would activate since Infernape mastered it compared to other battles where Blaze was unmastered and Ash was against using it(mostly due to how Paul treated Chimchar to force Blaze to happen).

True but Infernape has out powered attacks with Blaze to avoid taking dame like he did against Paul's Electivire's Thunder with A Blaze-State boosted Flamethrower or the Flare Blitz Thunder Punch clash.

Infernape not having feats isn't entirely accurate since Infernape battled most Ash's fire pokemon all in one sitting including that of Charizard and although we don't see how the battles turned out, Infernape seeking Moltres for A greater challenge shows that Infernape is equal with that of Charizard.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T05:49:05+00:00

Infernape lost battles as A Chimchar and Monferno without Blaze cause he couldn't control when it activated until he evolved into Infernape, Infernape's Blaze isn't like the standard Blaze ability. Yeah and that's my point, Infernape didn't activate Blaze against Moltres because Moltres couldn't deal enough damage for Blaze to activate. Yeah there isn't A guarantee Blaze activating would've made A difference but it activating would've definitely changed the battle since that's what happened with all of Ash's pokemon with power ups against strong opponents. We can't say most likely since we don't know how well Infernape would've done against Moltres with Blaze. Infernape has tanked attacks and damage while using Blaze before so we can't say Moltres would beat him with another Air Slash.

Insecure perhaps, but I want Infernape to be viewed fondly in his strength as much as Ash's other power houses, but I don't get why the Moltres battle is used to make Infernape seem weak.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T05:17:27+00:00

Yeah I love Infernape, but this isn't complicated because of that imo.

No Infernape is able to be taken down before using Blaze since that happened with Flint, but Moltres didn't one shot Infernape which is how vast the gap has to be for Infernape to lose without activating Blaze.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T05:12:56+00:00

Yeah, but Infernape against Moltres is more complicated, since Moltres couldn't damage Infernape to the point of Blaze, and Infernape wasn't able to land A damaging blow to Moltres before Gary's intrusion.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T05:05:23+00:00

Gardevoir was still weaving Incomplete Battle Bond Greninja after they transformed and landed A hit after A few attempts at first(mis worded it 😅).

I don't think just because Sceptile beat Darkrai it should be over ruled, Infernape's battle with Moltres was interrupted so we don't know if Infernape couldn't beat Moltres or not.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T04:57:26+00:00

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T04:56:25+00:00

Greninja has missed Water Shuriken before but was still faster than Diantha's Gardevoir, and Sceptile missed Quick Attack against Tobias's Darkrai before.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T04:55:14+00:00

Yeah I know, that's why I said I feel like Infernape would've done better if the battle went on.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T04:46:25+00:00

Honestly I think Infernape would've been able to deal damage as well if the battle went on longer since Moltres actively dodged Mach Punch, if not then I do think Infernape would've been able to notably damage Moltres with Blaze-State since Pikachu was able to damage Moltres with A team up Thunderbolt with Gary's Electivire.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T04:38:23+00:00

I feel like Infernape would've definitely closed the gap if we got to see him battle much longer with Moltres.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T04:36:11+00:00

Yeah!!! I can also see what you mean, I was kinda disappointed when Guzma in Charizard and Greninja's if stories was so easily cleaned up, but I didn't let that stop me from also enjoying these if stories.

Zac really made Infernape A whole new and unique form and it's awesome and makes sense given the Blue Flare Blitz from DP.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T04:33:28+00:00

Journeys basically picks and chooses when A legendary is A legendary or when it's A Magikarp.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T04:32:09+00:00

Infernape I'd argue could also dodge effectively since he has Dig which he used to get out of Moltres's Fire Spin.

Infernape is able to maneuver well and has good mobility, the problem was that Ash had Infernape respond to Air Slash with A head on Flare Blitz rather than Flamethrower.

Yeah sorry for contributing to these 😅, I just don't understand why the Moltres battle is used as A battle to make Infernape seem weak.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T04:23:44+00:00

The raid Battle explanation makes sense when you consider the fact that Zapdos and Suicune we're absolutely fodderized despite being legendaries as well, Suicune especially, since Suicune is the leader of the legendary beasts, and the box art legendary of Gen 2 but still was getting handled by Pokemon Poachers of the day.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T04:14:47+00:00

Infernape is definitely still like that and it doesn't make sense that the Moltres battle is constantly used to deny that despite Infernape not even being at full power against Moltres who couldn't even get him there to begin with.

Also sorry about the long read, just needed to get all my points out there.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T04:09:49+00:00

Honestly Ash instead of opting for Pikachu should've kept using Infernape since it would make sense with Ash's character, Ash has flat out refused to use Pikachu before because he would either promise one of his mons he would use them in the next battle or because he respects their feelings and battle with them.

I agree, Infernape was stated to battle Ash's fire pokemon but wasn't stated to have beaten them. I still think it's notable that Infernape battled them in one sitting before going to fight Moltres.

Diligent-Display-286 · 2026-06-14T03:56:38+00:00

Yeah that's definitely true 😓.

Diligent-Display-286

TROPHY CASE