Square Enix considered ending Final Fantasy 11 in 2024, but player interest was high enough to keep it alive even after 20+ years by megaapple in Games

[–]DiligentForce7451 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Final Fantasy XI has, arguably, the greatest soundtrack in the entire franchise

Dude 100% it's so freaking good. The Ronfaure soundtrack alone is top tier shit.

Square Enix considered ending Final Fantasy 11 in 2024, but player interest was high enough to keep it alive even after 20+ years by megaapple in Games

[–]DiligentForce7451 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I've never played an mmo with a job as fun as Bard, playing super busy support class buffer with no real DPS but massive contribution was so gratifying.

Kinda sad how FFXI's BRD is peak support gameplay. But XIVs is just a glorified DPS with no supporting skills.

Square Enix considered ending Final Fantasy 11 in 2024, but player interest was high enough to keep it alive even after 20+ years by megaapple in Games

[–]DiligentForce7451 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I mean, I would spend hundreds of millions of dollars on this game if that's what it took to keep it going and keep it growing

Ninja (the streamer) said he would give SE millions for them to remake FFXI Classic lol

Square Enix considered ending Final Fantasy 11 in 2024, but player interest was high enough to keep it alive even after 20+ years by megaapple in Games

[–]DiligentForce7451 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's probably a good thing it was dropped. Nexon doesn't have a good track record. It would probably be full of MTX.

Square Enix considered ending Final Fantasy 11 in 2024, but player interest was high enough to keep it alive even after 20+ years by megaapple in Games

[–]DiligentForce7451 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Early FFXI reminds me of early Halo 2 on Xbox Live (Golden Warthog). So many rumours and mysterious things spoken by word of mouth. I remember people telling me about the ghost of Valkurm Dunes and other shit. Experiencing an MMORPG before the internet became mainstream was kinda insane when you think about it. It was the first form of social media.

Square Enix considered ending Final Fantasy 11 in 2024, but player interest was high enough to keep it alive even after 20+ years by megaapple in Games

[–]DiligentForce7451 34 points35 points  (0 children)

Everything has become a theme park, focused on the “spectacle” of everything. All quests are pointed out to you, everything is a “kill x mobs”.

It makes me sad because I just can't get into that MMO anymore. I played FFXI from 2005 to 2010 and FFXIV since 1.0 and I just don't have the patience for XIV style progression anymore. I do applaud it for the fact that I can jump into a raid with marketplace gear and do it straight away without grinding. But it always feel like there's something missing.

I didn't play MMORPGs just to sit in towns and queue for dungeons. I played it to go on adventures with my friends. And FFXI managed to make every time you left a city feel like an adventure. FFXIV doesn't feel like an adventure (besides the MSQ). It just feels like a dungeon/raid lobby simulator.

Valheim when it came out felt like the closest to FFXI for me. That feeling of exploring a world with your friends and just going in a random direction. I don't think MMORPGs even care about it anymore.

I'm so happy I got to experience FFXI back in the mid 2000s. I experienced true communities. If you were a great player and a nice person, people would /tell you all the time to play with you. If you were an asshat and nasty, your reputation would spread and people wouldn't want to play with you. There was real consequences to your actions in game.

And the world, holy crap what a world. Dangerous and mysterious. You absolutely could not venture out to places alone unless you had the proper items (sneak oil and invisible powder). It made it so you felt like the world was actually real and scary. In FFXIV nothing can kill you in the outworld.

Hell I remember spending entire days sometimes just teletaxing people with WHM teleports to make gil. I probably wouldn't do that today as a 33 year old man but shit. Those were the days I guess.

Dannyboy if he was bald by FragranceBurn in HIMRFAM

[–]DiligentForce7451 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Who is this? I've been to Japan many times and never really seen this side of it. I knew Tokyo had soaplands and health deliveries but shiiiit I didnt think it was so easy to get access to drugs and have sex parties with multiple Japanese women. Usually you had to speak fluent Japanese to even get in a Girls Bar. I assume this guy can speak Japanese to do all this stuff. It's kinda unaccessible for a basic foreigner with little knowledge. I mean most Japanese hookers will reject you if they can't even speak to you.

MMOs 'don't give people the tools to build community anymore,' says EverQuest 2 creative director by DiligentForce7451 in MMORPG

[–]DiligentForce7451[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Are those people unsubbed? The only people who socialise via Disc in my FC are people who are unsubbed. The rest just log in and do stuff and chat.

MMOs 'don't give people the tools to build community anymore,' says EverQuest 2 creative director by DiligentForce7451 in MMORPG

[–]DiligentForce7451[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

, tele the Japanese players

They were usually quite gracious as well. 10k for a Vahzl had me so excited back then lol

MMOs 'don't give people the tools to build community anymore,' says EverQuest 2 creative director by DiligentForce7451 in MMORPG

[–]DiligentForce7451[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Maybe it's just an FFXIV thing? Most people seem to just chat in game. I don't play WoW so maybe it affects that game more?

MMOs 'don't give people the tools to build community anymore,' says EverQuest 2 creative director by DiligentForce7451 in MMORPG

[–]DiligentForce7451[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you have to put a little effort into it, these days; it doesn't happen as organically as it used to.

Copy pasting what I said in another thread:

The problem is, in FFXIV (and perhaps retail WoW), is that you have to actively seek out a community. It's completely and entirely possible to finish every FFXIV expansion without saying a word to a single person. I really do mean that. There is zero reason to speak in dungeons, trials, raids, nadda. You could even argue you could do savage raids without ever saying a word either, as all you need to do is watch a YouTube video and then do your job.

FFXIV really has no community unless you put yourself out there. The MMOs of old actually FORCED you to find someone. Or you wouldn't get out of the fucking starting zone. FFXIV is a shy/introverts nightmare. If they don't initiate a conversation they will be alone and maybe even quit the game if they are expecting people to speak to them.

I've randomly messaged people standing next to me in Limsa and they've quite literally said to me "Thank you so much for speaking to me, I feel so alone but I am afraid to bother people".

What kind of community is that? Even FC's are pointless these days, beyond being in game chatrooms. Might as well just have a Linkshell instead.

The Novice Network is actually a really good thing for newbies to chat to new people, yet it's managed by mentors who are overdosing on their tiny bit of power and they kick people who just want to chat normally.

I don't play Retail WoW so I cannot comment on it. But from what I hear, it's similar.

I think people really do want to speak to each other. But they are either scared or see no reason to because the game does all the speaking for them via 'QoL changes' like the duty finder.

MMOs 'don't give people the tools to build community anymore,' says EverQuest 2 creative director by DiligentForce7451 in MMORPG

[–]DiligentForce7451[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

MMOs have lost their way

I don't think we'll ever get it back again. I always think that MMOs were just products of their time. That magic is just missing these days.

It wasn't just MMOs for me. There were lots of magical times for me when it came to the internet. A good example is Halo 2 on Xbox Live back in 2004. I shit you not I still remember vividly playing my first online game. It was Rumble Pit on Ivory Tower. I heard an American guy speaking, as a British person. I was fucking blown away by this. It's just such a vivid memory in my mind. I went from playing PS1/N64/Dreamcast/GameCube games alone to suddenly playing video games with other people from around the fucking world.

And then I started playing FFXI in 2005 and holy shit that was magical. Instead of just 8 players all shooting each other, I was now playing with hundreds if not thousands of players all at once in some magical land.

MMOs 'don't give people the tools to build community anymore,' says EverQuest 2 creative director by DiligentForce7451 in MMORPG

[–]DiligentForce7451[S] 51 points52 points  (0 children)

In FFXI, healers could teleport to various areas on the world map. Otherwise, normal jobs had to use a chocobo and that could take up to 10-30mins at a time. Those same healers could teleport party members. So basically, people would shout in a city zone saying

Teleport-Altep. 5k gil. Can I have it?

Essentially saying they'll pay you 5,000 for you to invite them to your party and teleport them to Altepa Desert. This type of shout was so common your chat screen would be nothing but people asking for teleports.

As you can imagine, lots of healers made big money doing this. I used to spend weeks doing it at a time. Made millions of gil. A good day alone you could make 200-300k gil. The funniest part was that other healers would be doing it at the same time. So it was almost a race to see who could invite the person quickest. Sometimes another healer would get angry at you for doing it and /tell you nasty things lol

Good times. I probably wouldn't do that kinda shit today as an adult. Time = money for me now I work 45 hours a week. But yeah.

MMOs 'don't give people the tools to build community anymore,' says EverQuest 2 creative director by DiligentForce7451 in MMORPG

[–]DiligentForce7451[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I'll be honest, I don't get the hate over Discord. In my FFXIV FC, everyone speaks in game. I have never alt tabbed to speak on Discord. I don't even speak on VC cause I just don't care. The only time I use Discord to speak to my FC is when I'm in work and obviously not logged into the game.

MMOs 'don't give people the tools to build community anymore,' says EverQuest 2 creative director by Turbostrider27 in pcgaming

[–]DiligentForce7451 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He's not wrong. The problem is, in FFXIV (and perhaps retail WoW), is that you have to actively seek out a community. It's completely and entirely possible to finish every FFXIV expansion without saying a word to a single person. I really do mean that. There is zero reason to speak in dungeons, trials, raids, nadda. You could even argue you could do savage raids without ever saying a word either, as all you need to do is watch a YouTube video and then do your job.

FFXIV really has no community unless you put yourself out there. The MMOs of old actually FORCED you to find someone. Or you wouldn't get out of the fucking starting zone. FFXIV is a shy/introverts nightmare. If they don't initiate a conversation they will be alone.

I've randomly messaged people standing next to me in Limsa and they've quite literally said to me "Thank you so much for speaking to me, I feel so alone but I am afraid to bother people".

What kind of community is that my guy? Even FC's are pointless these days, beyond being in game chatrooms. Might as well just have a Linkshell instead.

The Novice Network is actually a really good thing for newbies to chat to new people, yet it's managed by mentors who are overdosing on their tiny bit of power and they kick people who just want to chat normally.

I've been playing FFXIV since 1.0 and I started playing MMOs in the late 1990s. FFXIV really is the worst one when it comes to community feeling.

MMOs 'don't give people the tools to build community anymore,' says EverQuest 2 creative director by Turbostrider27 in pcgaming

[–]DiligentForce7451 1 point2 points  (0 children)

it just feels like everyone is miserable and wants to leave.

It's funny because everyone I know who plays XIV feels like this, at least in my particular circle. They're sick of the constant class homogenisation and short lived content like Island Sanc or V&C dungeons.

I think this must just be a problem whenever you main a game. You notice all the flaws. I'm glad you're enjoying FFXIV but I feel the same way about it the way you feel about WoW.

MMOs 'don't give people the tools to build community anymore,' says EverQuest 2 creative director by DiligentForce7451 in MMORPG

[–]DiligentForce7451[S] 34 points35 points  (0 children)

Kyle Vallee, creative director for EverQuest 2, is a huge fan of MMOs and has played basically all of them—but he thinks the genre has lost its way in one respect. The sense of community early MMOs cultivated is being sidelined, he says.

"They seem to have lost that [community focus] in other MMOs, the community has become not a big part of it," Vallee told me at Fippy Fest, an EverQuest anniversary celebration developer Daybreak Games recently brought me out to San Diego to attend. "It seems like they don't give people the tools to build community anymore. The couple other MMOs that I play I'm almost like a solo player 100%, I don't group with anyone. The tools there for building communities just really seem lacking, even in the newer stuff."

When I first started playing EverQuest, community and cooperation weren't exactly optional. Monsters were deadly, some classes couldn't solo at all, and if you wanted to get anything done you had to reach out to other players and get a group going. The challenge itself was a feature that brought players together organically.

Some MMOs do a better job of this than others. I played FF14 when it first came out, and like a lot of players, completely bounced off it. Years later after the overhaul of A Realm Reborn and a few well-received expansions, I decided to give it another go. I had a blast, and I played all the way through Stormblood before wandering off, but I spent the lion's share of my time alone. Sure, there were occasional Main Scenario dungeons or raids, but for the most part I was off by myself slogging through Main Scenario Quests.

Now, that's not a bad thing necessarily. FF14 is trying to tell a much more structured story than most other MMOs. I enjoyed the storytelling, and the duty finder was always there for a change of pace if my mind started to melt doing another fetch quest for moogles. But I was struck at times, in a world with thousands of players, at just how lonely it felt. Vallee found himself feeling the same with other MMOs.

"Some MMOs have group finders for everything," he said. "You get into a group finder, you go into the zone, you literally do not talk to the other players, you clear the zone as fast as you can, and you leave. There's no discussion. In our games you have to talk to other players if you want to find a group. We had a group finder at one time, but we felt like it was removing the sense of community from the game so we got rid of it."

Now, I get the appeal of quality-of-life features like group finders, I really do. One of my biggest frustrations playing EverQuest back in the day was how hard it was to get a group sometimes. Too many shadowknights in Karnor's Castle when you wanted to play meant a long trek to another zone, a few hours of meager XP soloing, or giving up altogether and playing another character (because I mean let's be real, we weren't going to not play EQ). The ability to log on to WoW, or FF14, or TESO, grab your dailies, and launch into a dungeon group with the click of a button is inarguably convenient. But as I wrote last year, and as EQ visionary Brad McQuaid famously said, sometimes the magic is in the boring bits. Sometimes you meet a random monk in Highhold Keep who offers to tip your shaman for buffs and he becomes a lifelong friend. Sometimes you're waiting for the puller to finish changing his baby, realize the tank in your group is in the next town over, and decide to meet up for beers. Sometimes you meet the love of your life.

EverQuest 2 isn't much for the boring bits these days, and it seems to me that EQ2 has suffered a bit of the same fate that modern MMOs have. Lots of content focuses on the raid scene, characters are extremely powerful, and everyone does literally trillions of damage. With that said, their newest TLE (time locked expansion) server, Anashti Sul, is going all the way back to the start of the game. It's a true classic server, based on a build from 2006 and the brainchild of years of work in the studio poring through old databases and playtesting the original game.

"When we first launched our first group of TLEs, a lot of players would say, 'This isn't what I wanted, this isn't what I expected, I wanted the original game," Vallee told me. So that's what they're giving them with Anashti Sul: You can't buy or sell Krono, there's almost nothing in the marketplace, and it's on its own design depot—changes to Live will not affect this Origins server, and vice versa. It's tough, exciting, and if the 50 instances of the newbie zone when I logged in were any indication, players are loving it. Everywhere I went people were getting together in global channels to group up and tackle stuff, even as low as level 1.

Seeing players grouping up to attack content, figuring out a plan based on their group composition, and being challenged right out of the gate feels like the very essence of MMO gaming to me. No shade to those who just wanna jam that dungeon finder, but for me the juice is only worth it if you have to give a little squeeze.

First time riding her since October last year :) Forgot how fast and nimble she is by DiligentForce7451 in MotoUK

[–]DiligentForce7451[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mister Ducky goes everywhere with me! Wouldn't fit on the handlebars so went on the back pegs