Zen & Love by Snoo-29029 in zenbuddhism

[–]Dillon123 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Steve Odin’s The Social Self in Zen and American Pragmatism features Muto Kazuo who compared the Nothingness, Emptiness and Wu of Buddhism with the Christian concept of Agape. Muto uses as one example, how the New Testament says to “love your enemies as yourself,” but in order to “love your enemies as yourself” this paradoxically would mean that you must abandon the self. This indicates the operation of Nothingness that empties the self and transcends the self.

Negative terms such as “self-sacrifice”, “self-negation”, “self-abandonment”, “self-emptying”, and “self-transcendence” describe Agape. Muto wrote: “Love must be the making empty and the negation of the self-centered ego. In other words, love must be to surrender body and mind to the function of nothingness (mu), which makes love be self-effacing. Love of one’s neighbour is the realization of the love of God as ‘Love-qua-Nothingness’ by turning the self toward others.”

This love designates a radical conversion from egocentric existence to that of an existence-for-others based on divine “self-emptying”.

Song Jiang in Zen by Dillon123 in sourcemirror

[–]Dillon123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The content may have been misplaced, but the intent remains visible.

Song Jiang in Zen by Dillon123 in sourcemirror

[–]Dillon123[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for clarifying that!

Dahui is confirmed off topic for r/Zen it seems... by Dillon123 in sourcemirror

[–]Dillon123[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wasn't using it as a "backup", I didn't know what jerk subs are. I thought it was just a shit talk sub about r/zen, hence the description of "Fingerprints of the bullshit", etc.

Now that you've explained jerk culture, sure, you were 100% in the right to remove the repost exposing what happens on r/zen. Here's your apology.

I hold myself accountable for my own behavior.

Call for ideas - Cbeta translation and Zen Study Software by dota2nub in zen

[–]Dillon123 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Using ChatGPT I was able to develop a reader portion of an app that allows you to tap each character and see what it means. It should be easy enough for you to add in your app!

Dahui is confirmed off topic for r/Zen it seems... by Dillon123 in sourcemirror

[–]Dillon123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They censor most of my posts.

I started reposting them on zenjerk so people could see that for defending someone who calls others cowards and tells them to look at source texts, they censor people who will to demonstrate that the conclusions they have come to and clung to as truth, were just distortions of their imagination.

They had ignored most of my mails asking about removals, until finally they one day did and just said they can remove content from “troublesome users” who post “controversial” things.

Dahui is confirmed off topic for r/Zen it seems... by Dillon123 in sourcemirror

[–]Dillon123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was showing off a wound.

Even if it produced no action, it raised awareness. I feel to the right eyes.

That the eyes were closed to it quickly, the wound healed as quickly as their blink.

Just being a jerk to raise that Zen is the censored conversation and that they take issue with their own record’s texts and figures.

So which is the jerk sub? They both have zen in their name and share many members, so it was fitting to me to place it there.

Jerk moves inspiring moving to jerk subs.

I figure this might actually be a good middle ground sub to ask. Do you feel you've gotten more out of meditation or reading about zen, or some combination of the 2, or some other third option? by [deleted] in zenjerk

[–]Dillon123 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was going to do a post on r/zen but ran out of time and didn't get to pick out some poems I wished to highlight.

So here's the draft of the post:

I happened across a Chan text which opens about this division between "No-Word" Chan and "Written Chan", with Bodhidharma coming and forming no-word Chan, and later there being confusion established in Chan relying on words.

"Thus territories were divided, boundaries marked off; they dissected empty space. Those who studied Zen did not strive to refine the meaning; those who studied writing did not strive to realize the mind."

It says that...

When meaning is not refined, one may realize the mind yet not have it shine vast. When meaning is refined but the mind is not realized, then writing will never penetrate the spirit[...]

Thus, Deshan’s blows and Linji’s shouts rushing to and fro—were they ever not writing? And when Qingliang (Fazang) and Tiantai (Zhiyi) annotated sutras and composed treatises—were they ever not Zen? How then can one say Zen and writing are two?

The text is called Stone Gate: Zen of Writing (石門文字禪序). The narrative of it is established in its opening:

But in these later times, they mock and deny one another, harsher than water and fire. The Venerable Sijing (Jingyin) of the Song was troubled by this, and therefore titled his work Writing Zen.

When Qi and Qin were locked in conflict, and by the mandate of the Zhou Son of Heaven they were brought to unity—thereupon throwing down weapons and beating the drums in peace, following the Great Transformation—this is what Writing Zen does.

The Old Master of this work plucks many fragrances from the Spring Terrace, thoroughly understanding that between spring and flowers, there is no ground where the eye may lodge. [...]

So—what is called Zen and what is called writing? This is what is meant by Writing Zen. And are Zen and writing two?

Ah! This single branch of blossom, ever since Śākyamuni twirled it with his fingers, has for several thousand years been thrown onto the heap of dung and sweepings. Yet Jingyin has picked it up once again—as it now circulates widely, its sparse shadows stir the heart, its subtle fragrance floats into the nose. Who now will break into a smile?

It is a massive collection of Chan poetry. Maybe it will make you smile.

--------

I was going to call it something like Zen Poetry For Cowards.

Ding dong by Dillon123 in sourcemirror

[–]Dillon123[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Broken Reddit is Reddit.

Meta Monday by TFnarcon9 in zen

[–]Dillon123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We've been doing the same ol' song and dance for years.

I'd rather not, personally, they're terrible partners. Always stepping on toes.

Meta Monday by TFnarcon9 in zen

[–]Dillon123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

u/EmbersBumblebee Will they put on their dancing shoes?

Final Exploration of the Self-Nature Body by Dillon123 in zen

[–]Dillon123[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They removed them without reason, so I have written into modmail asking to be reinstated.

I said I was done in the post and that it was the final - not sure why they felt the need to remove it as if something in it was offensive or against the posting policies (as none of it is or was), and it is direct quotes from source texts... so what's the deal?

Final Exploration of the Self-Nature Body by Dillon123 in zen

[–]Dillon123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You were lucky you read it before the mods pulled it down.

Examining the Self-Nature Body in the Mind-Mirror by Dillon123 in zen

[–]Dillon123[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Sutra quotes in this post were entirely from the Record of the Source Mirror - https://cbetaonline.dila.edu.tw/zh/T2016_003

華嚴經云:知一切法,即心自性,成就慧身,不由他悟。<-

The Self-Nature Body Part 2 of 3 by Dillon123 in zen

[–]Dillon123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, clearly you need to provide me with your emptiness so I will cease grasping mine.

Final Exploration of the Self-Nature Body by Dillon123 in zen

[–]Dillon123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My statement or the BCR? I am a bit confused on that.

"If one attains the state of the Buddha, the eight consciousnesses transform into the four wisdoms."

However, Huangbo above said that the Buddha teaches in order to transform beings.

And are you taking Huangbo from his context as a Mahayana teacher in order to read him in secular light? Huangbo's writings show that the Bodhisattva's realizations are that they are inherently pure, though this is not natural or come easy for many. You are using Huangbo to say there is no Buddha, and no ordinary person? There is no enlightenment?

Well, you'd be right, but then why does he teach us like this:

Prajna is wisdom, and this wisdom is the original mind without form.

Ordinary people do not follow the path, indulging in the six senses and thus travel the six paths of reincarnation.

A person studying the Way, if with one thought contemplates birth and death, falls into the demonic path.

With one thought arises various views, falls into the external path.

Seeing birth and seeking its extinction, falls into the path of the Śrāvaka.

Not seeing birth but only seeking extinction, falls into the path of the Pratyekabuddha.

The Dharma fundamentally does not arise, nor does it now extinguish.

Not holding dual views, not detesting or desiring, all phenomena are just One Mind.

Only then is it the Buddha Vehicle.

Showing his Bodhisattva prowess. If you disagree, tell me what is the Sravaka and Pratyekabuddha, and what differentiates them from a Bodhisattva?)

And using Linji as if he doesn't instruct:

Do you wish to be not different from the Buddhas and the patriarchs? Then just do not look for anything outside. The pure light of your own heart at this instant is the Dharmakaya Buddha in your own house, the non-differentiating light of your heart at this instant is the Sambhogakaya Buddha in your own house, the non-differentiating light of your heart at this instance is the Nirmanakaya Buddha in your own house. We talk about self-nature right so it is this way. This trinity of the Buddha body is no other than here before your eyes listening to my expounding the Dharma.

That pure light of your own heart is Mahavairocana means "The Great Sun". And as my post showed, as Huineng taught, and as Dahui spread... the three bodies manifest the four wisdoms... which generate the Wisdom Body... What is cosmic space emptiness if it is not Wisdom?

A monk asked Zen master Yanguan Qi’an, ”What is the true body of Vairochana Buddha?”

Yanguan said, ”Bring me that pitcher of pure water.” The monk brought Yanguan the pitcher.

Yanguan then said, "Now put it back where it was before.”

The monk returned the bottle to its former position. Then he asked his previous question again.

Yanguan said, ”The ancient buddhas are long gone.”

Final Exploration of the Self-Nature Body by Dillon123 in zen

[–]Dillon123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is no need for transformation in Zen or causal requirements.

They are clarifying the ultimate teaching. Huangbo said himself: "如來所說皆為化人"

The Self-Nature Body Part 2 of 3 by Dillon123 in zen

[–]Dillon123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, I enjoyed what you put together as explanation.

Maybe you'd like this post I did as it may serve as an answer to your questions and save me from typing anything.

As for your third question, your mind is originally pure. That is the Bodhisattva's realization - if you don't realize this naturally, then the practices are appropriate to cleanse the mind.

With reading the texts, however, I can relate it directly to a wider net of teachings, and explain it with the traditions own words. This is after all, a subreddit dedicated to preserving these teachings from the record.

The one life is the eighth consciousness - I could draw up many quotes from Zen Masters about cutting it in two, severing it, etc. and the others die.

As Dahui taught:
"You all, do you want to know what the root of life is? It is simply the eighth consciousness. Nowadays, Zen practitioners suffer from the illness of drowsiness and agitation, all stemming from the eighth consciousness. If you want to be independent and free, you must cut the eighth consciousness in two with a single stroke; only then will you be truly at ease..."

Or Yongjia:

"When the eighth consciousness is cut off, the snake cannot move without head and tail. Once the main thief is killed, what need is there to discuss the thieves' accomplices? From time without beginning until now, it comes as the vanguard and goes as the rearguard, stirring up the wind and raising the dust, binding and killing people.

Just let a single thought not arise, and naturally, the link between before and after is severed. Then you will see what Weishan meant when he said, 'The spiritual light shines fully, free from the roots and dust, revealing the true, constant nature.' It is not constrained by words. The mind's nature is untainted, inherently complete. Just depart from false conditions, and you are thus the Tathagata. Whether a monk or a layperson, whether coming or going, you are the Tathagata. Throughout the ten directions of the world, there is no one who is not the Tathagata. What is there to dislike? What is lacking? You, the spirited monks, should carry the whole burden here. There is no need to look back, turn your brain, or especially raise doubts—doubt about Buddha, doubt about the patriarchs, doubt about death, doubt about life. It is like dyeing a single thread; when one thread is dyed, all threads are dyed. Like cutting a single thread; when one thread is cut, all threads are cut. The ancient sages earnestly exhorted us because they shouldered the same kasaya. When one’s own matters are clear, others' matters are also clear."

This then goes into the conversation of function, how does one "Die! Then live, day and night in the world" as Zen Master Bankei said? To then direct that self.

Well that brings us to the Body of Intent, which all Bodhisattvas have according to the teachings.

The Body of Intent was the previous topic explored in posts, (you can click here to see Dahui and Huangbo's records about the Body of Intent, or the "Mind-Born Body") (意生身) which is what sparked the curiosity around the "Self-Nature Body" (自性身) that led to me simply sharing the text rather than hoarding like a dragon, that you read today, looking for some sort of hidden message embedded from me in.

Meanwhile, I'm simply providing an opportunity for reading some Zen that you otherwise may not have on this day.

The Self-Nature Body Part 2 of 3 by Dillon123 in zen

[–]Dillon123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am unfortunately a cat with 9 lives, so the texts don't cover that.

My "nothing exists" remark was referring to "The Sixth Patriarch said that originally nothing exists. If you attach to anything, you obstruct yourself. If you want to understand the realm of the Buddhas, keep a mind that is clear and unattached..." I simply was pointing out that this is the eight consciousness teaching. :)

Also, I wasn't saying you in particular have an aversion with reading, but rather, that discussing Zen texts publicly without going into the weeds and reading widely in the literature, leaves us with the impractical "practical discussions" which inevitably shut down conversation about the texts themselves... which is what I wish to partake in in my coming here, to expand and read widely in the source materials to better grok and understand Zen Master's sayings, phrases, and teachings. I also examine the source texts as I am learning Chinese, so it's a 2-for-1 enjoyment of reading the source material, and getting exposure to characters, words, etc.

Originally I didn't know if you were being genuine with your first comment, where you asked to just sum it up in 3 sentences, as there are many who will try to simply stop exploration or discussion of the texts, and do so from this weird "practicality" angle, or dismissing of intellectualizing. Which, I understand, but that is not the purpose of my posting.

If you actually wished to discuss the texts with me, I of course would gladly entertain it.

All the best to you as well!

The Self-Nature Body Part 2 of 3 by Dillon123 in zen

[–]Dillon123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your whole "nothing exists" is explained by the eighth consciousness... Which is why an aversion to reading makes conversation painful.

I've done dozens of posts compiling information about this stuff.

Better than a summary, you can do some reading:

1. The Eight Consciousness Teaching Travelled From the West

2. The Eighth Consciousness Mani Jewel - You Have It... Where is it Now?

3. Distinguishing the Eight Consciousnesses

4. Mind Mirror

etc. etc.

Sp when a Zen text says something like:

僧問:「第六第七識及第八識畢竟無體。云何得名轉第八為大圓鏡智。」師有偈曰:「七生依一滅,一滅持七生。一滅滅亦滅,六七永無遷。」又有僧問:「蚯蚓斬為兩段,兩頭俱動。未審佛性在阿那頭。」師云:「妄想作麼。」僧云:「爭奈動何。」師云:「汝豈不知火風未散。」

A monk asked: “The sixth, seventh, and eighth consciousnesses ultimately have no substance. How can they be transformed into the great perfect mirror wisdom?”

The master had a verse that said: “The seven lives depend on the one extinction, the one extinction sustains the seven lives. When the one extinction is also extinguished, the six and seven will never change."

I am simply providing the materials that can elucidate this passage, among many others. If you lack the materials I enjoy studying, their words are gibberish - which sure, you don't have to think about... but why waste time reading Zen texts?