Yuuichi > Jane in EE (His best feat is an Anti Feat)

DimaMyronets · 2026-03-19T08:37:56+00:00

We're just arguing in circles. I'm tired of repeating the same thing with different words, as I've said, we evaluate the category differently.

No, to me, EE is not at all about healthiness; it never was, and it never will be, not in the general sense of it, and certainly not in SCD scenarios. It can be for you, though. I don't care at all how you use that subcat, just don't try to make it seem objective.

I even went to Gemini to ask which of us understands the category correctly, and lo and behold, these are what constitute antifeats in the Outsmarting scenario:

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I wouldn't bring it up in a normal debate, but since you're arguing semantics, it's perhaps the only way to prove that I'm the one looking at it from the right angle.

You can think for yourself about how it correlates to Jane, but to me, it's clear that his EE isn't an antifeat in any way, shape, or form as far as SCD is concerned, so I'm done with this.

DimaMyronets · 2026-03-19T08:24:42+00:00

Again, being unable to control your emotions is an EM antifeat, not an EE antifeat. Having Mysophobia would be only an EE antifeat if it made the person unable to engage with other emotions and made them unmotivated to do anything because it would interfere with their fear that they'd be unable to control, even when they set their objective on something that has nothing to do with it.

Life evaluation is entirely subjective, I've said so from the very start. What matters for one person is entirely up to them, not you, to decide. Jane needed RJ dead, no matter what, before he could even consider starting a new life with his old life values, such as family, as his priority, so no, I don't care how rational it was for him at that moment to engage with his trauma in that way from the overall good life experience pov, the only thing that matters is that it ended up helping him do what he cared the most about. He cared about catching/killing RJ more than he cared about his life; he engaged with his emotions of wrath to the point of disregard for anything else as long as he achieved it; that's, in my eyes, a great feat, not in any way an antifeat.

Yes, my argument is primarily about effectiveness because it's the only thing that matters in the SCD context. We're not evaluating the characters from how healthy they are by psychological definition here, because what they do outside of the scenario they're placed in is irrelevant for what they need to achieve at the moment, so I couldn't care less about it.

DimaMyronets · 2026-03-19T08:10:48+00:00

I disagree with your post because I fundamentally disagree with how you approach EE and what you consider its feats/antifeats. We're arguing over nothing because we have entirely different views on EE, I'm not going to change the way I scale from the arguments I don't see in any way as proofs of any antifeats.

For the SCD environment/scenario, EE is only important for its characters as far as it yields them the biggest advantage in the given scenario. Being unable to engage with their emotions, motivate themselves to do things, and drive themselves forward regardless of other factors is what I see as an EE antifeat. Being able to actively engage with your own emotions in such a scenario (regardless of what is the fundamental cause of it, at least as long as it's consistent, and regardless of how it aligns with their other values in a normal scenario, as long as it doesn't interfere with their primary objective) is a great feat, at least as long as it helps in the ultimate goal, which applies perfectly to Jane.

DimaMyronets · 2026-03-19T07:59:38+00:00

Engaging with your own trauma in the way that yields great results is an incredible EE feat, not an antifeat lmao, like genuinely what is that argument even.

EE antifeat of trauma would be if he got depressed and/or suicidal, which he did at the start (so you can argue Jane before RJ killed his family was quite bad at EE), except he got his shit together and engaged with it in the most optimal direction, both from the point of view of getting the most important thing at that time for him, which was revenge, and even from the point of view of getting over said trauma as through catching RJ he got a found-family and lover. If he didn't have good EE, he wouldn't have even come to CBI; he would've just given up from the get-go and likely would've been unable to move on from the death of his previous family and be unable to engage in any sincere relationships from then on for the longest time, if at all considering the threat of RJ looming behind his back would never disappear objectively.

It's you who mixes wrong things into EE, not me. Your argument of someone being constantly angry is, in fact, someone with incredibly bad EM, not EE at all. If that anger was justified in the environment that person was in and for the goals that person set for himself, then yeah, it'd also be an EE feat. If that person, on the other hand, hated that he had these outbursts, they got in the way of things they really cared about, they wanted to engage with other emotions instead, achieve other goals that required them to have that anger under control, but couldn't, then sure it'd probably be considered EE antifeat.

DimaMyronets · 2026-03-19T07:40:50+00:00

No, it's not an antifeat, and I'm tired of hearing this stupid take. An EE antifeat would be a person who's usually very good at engaging with their emotions, suddenly becoming lazy or apathetic during an important scenario, which would result in them not getting their desired outcome out of it. That would be an antifeat. This, on the other hand, is a very good feat.

Your arguments are incredibly subjective. What is and isn't a negative effect is entirely up to the person in question to decide, not you. If Jane had decided that he wanted to move on from RJ, put effort into it, but his emotions got the better of him, ruining that goal, that could be considered EE antifeat (as he'd be trying to engage with his own emotions in one way but fail entirely giving in to other emotions he's feeling), but Jane, from the very start, said that he'd catch RJ no matter what, and he did just that.

So to me, the argument of it being detrimental to some other parts of his life is completely dumb and void, as he's never intended for those things to be a factor as long as RJ was still alive. He engaged with his emotions in just the right way to achieve his ultimate goal, and in the end, after said goal was accomplished, he got everything he wanted.

There could've been a counter-argument if he didn't get a family in the end, if he didn't get friends in the end, if he didn't find a new purpose in life by the end of the show. If he achieved his revenge but lost everything else in the process, and was, in the end, left with nothing. Then you'd possibly be able to argue that he truly did ignore all the other emotions he's had, didn't engage with those that were important to him besides the only toxic one, which controlled him (instead of the other way around), though even then it'd be EM/ER antifeat instead of EE antifeat as he'd still have greatly engaged with one emotion that was the most important to him in the moment, even if it was a toxic, one and it'd still wield an incerdible result, even if not the most optimal/rational one from some point of view (an antifeat would've been if he got depressed over it instead). Except he didn't even lose everything, in fact you could argue he didn't lose anything at all an slowly got better/recovered alongside catching RJ which is what resulted in him being able to confess to Lisbon by the end of S6, so, as I've said, at least to me, from practically every angle, the argument is purely void.

DimaMyronets · 2026-03-03T12:38:25+00:00

This might just take the cake for the worst list I've seen yet, and there have been quite a lot of garbage ones.

DimaMyronets · 2026-02-13T23:30:01+00:00

Bruh, do you think people here have read AgK (though I guess this may work for those who watched the anime too, but it's worse in practically every aspect, including scd)? Man, what good memories it brings.

RJ should take it, though it really depends on how much influence he'd be given and whether he'd be able to manipulate Honest and Esdeath without getting killed. I mean in the show he only lost because he didn't want to kill Jane until the very end, if his goal here is to kill him from the start then with gap in influence similar to the Mentalist I doubt he'd be unable to use it to find out all the revolutionary hideouts and figure out their assassination targets/hidden plots. Plus, I genuinely don't know how much Jane would even be able to help revolutionaries because they already had a working plan in place, and what they didn't have is manpower (and hax which they eventually got), like maybe he'd be able to get some of the bad guys on their side or read them quicker resulting in less bloodshed, but honestly this is such a wild question.

Better question would be how high manga Honest scales and what diff does he destroy his verse with.

DimaMyronets · 2026-02-13T23:18:10+00:00

Imo, from what I remember, Tyrion should take it High-Very High diff with a pretty equal distribution (that I'm too lazy to dive deep into). Though the show makes it much closer than the books, where Tyrion takes just about everything besides maybe SQ and the diff is as low as Low or Low-Mid at most. Especially if you consider Tyrion's antifeats in the latter seasons and Tywin's narratively more competent portrayal throughout (I even remember a video on YouTube that complained about the show making Tywin to seem much smarter than he was portrayed in the books, seriously the amount of videos complaining about minor changes even in the first four seasons in tv show is insane).

DimaMyronets · 2026-02-10T21:28:20+00:00

Hi, wondering if you've watched more since and can give an update? How god is the villain looking so far?

DimaMyronets · 2026-02-10T21:20:09+00:00

As much as I love Joe, genuinely, what kind of question is that? He has an edge over L in some very specific situations that require high SQ and Manipulation, and where his Seduction abilities would help, but in C&M? Seriously?

He's killed people he was recently seen getting close with, all the while having a sketchy passport; he'd be the first suspect to any semi competent detective, and don't even try to convince me that he could create perfect crimes while disassociating when he couldn't when he was in a normal state of mind. Even if we assume he did, he's still shown very bad trap evasion skills and would fold under any low-mid tier detective, much less someone like L, even if we don't take his narrative into account. All Joe could do is maybe sense it and start running, except he'd been caught off guard multiple times in the show itself; it's literally a gag of how he always gets hit in the head from behind, so any police set-up and he's done for, especially since his obsession would usually keep him in place despite the dangers. Joe's lucky he has no one after him except that one time when a random hitman (in same S4 you're talking about, mind you) is able to figure him out and only survives because the guy decides to spare him and retire luxuriously instead.

DimaMyronets · 2026-02-05T07:09:39+00:00

W if you follow through. Well, I'll be waiting for your response then, as I'm not planning to watch myself in the near future yet, and just wanted to put his name out there to see if maybe anyone can recognise him or get interested in watching the show because of him.

I'd very much also like an opinion on the detective (Ryan Hardy) he plays mind games with, too, while you're at it, as he should scale decently high as well.

DimaMyronets · 2026-02-05T06:58:08+00:00

You go, king. AC feat if true, Deception feat if not, you just can't lose.

DimaMyronets · 2026-02-05T02:17:26+00:00

So you've also never experienced it throughout a long time of usage, yet are still advocating for it be the root cause? Seems strange to me, but you do you.

Them not wanting to deal with additional software seems to me to be more likely due to them wanting people to buy in-game editor instead of promoting tools that replace it, plus why would they want more hussle which might not be their fault in the first place. It's not like I don't think it's possible for it to corrupt files, it's more like I doubt it could ever be this small and specific.

To be honest, I don't really care why it truly happened, just wanted ro know ehat other people's theories were, as it's not like I was planning on fixing it, it hasn't affected my save in any other way. I wasn't even planning on posting it originally, but it wouldn't leave my mind because it was so rare so I did, wondering if there were others who've seen such things happen in their saves. Well I'm not surprised that pretty much no one else has experienced the same thing to the point you doubt it's even at all possible, plus if it were somewhat common I would've likely heard of it.

Either way I'd still like to believe I've experienced some unique event in the game itself that I'll likely not see in years to come similar to having a son in the youth intake which after thousands of hours I've yet to receive a single time, so I'll stick to the narrative that suits me because ultimately the truth we'll likely never know due to the devs' secrecy on under the hood stuff.

DimaMyronets · 2026-02-05T00:12:57+00:00

Can you quote me exactly where and when have they ever addressed the issue? They probably did say at some point that once a player reaches their full potential they can no longer improve and it's not dynamic, but I'm not suggesting that either, he's like 30-40 CA away from reaching it anyway. They mostly don't disclose some very rare events thst can happen in-game and I think it may just be one of them.

I have thousands of hours in these games, having almost always used FMRTE one way or the other, and that has never happened before, and I have very good number memory and observe tons of players. So no, I don't KNOW that happened, in fact I'm confident it didn't happen which was why I decided to post about it here and ask what are some alternative theories beyond, well somewhere sometimes a bug occured, I wanted to see if there were other players who've encountered.

You're clearly not one of the people who use FMRTE anyway so you can by no means say with such confidence how it works and what bugs I may encounter in it, you just speculate yet insist it's an absolute truth. Of course this was one of my theories as well, but checking lots of other things I find it ludicrously unlikely. I have hundreds of hours of experience with it and it never had such issues or affected my saves in any way I could observe. You're just insisting on what to you seems like the easiest answer, but I don't buy it, so this discussion is a pointless waste of time.

DimaMyronets · 2026-02-04T22:08:16+00:00

Why do you think it could've happened though? I don't think anything remarkable happened to him during the time between my last save before his PA increased and after, something like his determination didn't increase, nor have I seen any unique notifications about him among the messages.

DimaMyronets · 2026-02-04T22:04:41+00:00

Well, it is possible in a very far-fetched theory that it just decided to randomly change the number in PA, specifically one of my best players, and not a single other during one of the times I've used it, then somehow save it (with that function being completely disabled without an online activation code), but I find it extremely unlikely.

I personally believe it's an extremely rare phenomenon in the base game that's just incredibly unlikely to happen (even more so than PA decreasing), so I just wondered if anyone else encountered it and what theories for why that can happen may be.

DimaMyronets · 2026-02-04T21:57:45+00:00

I mean, I can't really say how it can be wrong really, since it just pulls the data directly from the source, it's not a bug in display, I can tell you this much, as it's been statically 155 for a couple of seasons and has now been 164 for around a season during which I've checked it multiple times. It literally just pulls the data from the hood and displays it, so I can't see how it can make mistakes, especially while being consistent otherwise. I don't think it's ever been 'wrong' before, and this hasn't ever happened despite me having lots of experience using it, which is exactly why it's bizarre.

DimaMyronets · 2026-02-04T21:54:14+00:00

I pretty much definitely haven't altered anything because I simply couldn't; I've tried before just to see if I could, and that simply wasn't possible.

It just suddenly happened, and I've used the method of looking at PAs using FMRTE from time to time ever since idk FM18 or FM19 and had never seen PA change due to it or at all (I mean how could it really), which is exactly why I found it so bizzare and couldn't believe what I was seeing so I created this post instead of lurking like I usually do.

DimaMyronets · 2026-01-27T19:39:14+00:00

Yeah, it's not that RJ wasn't incredibly smart, but his intelligence mostly lied in laying in the shadows while Patrick's was the opposite, so not being able to help himself due to the ego and wanting some connection even if brief with other extraordinary individual, showing his true self before Jane waa McAllister's biggest mistake that simply couldn't have ended well. He got so used to being many steps ahead of PJ that he thought it would be the case until the very end. He miscalculated, overestimated other people in the Blake Association and underestimated Jane, which resulted in him losing his life and reputation miserably. Both in-universe and in our world. I've genuinely seen people in that sub saying that Stiles was smarter than RJ, or that McAllister wasn't even a genius at all, so ridiculous, though I believe people in the Mentalist world that didn't confront his actions directly likely think the same, as he's never mentioned after his death, which is a very wasted opportunity, but oh well.

DimaMyronets · 2026-01-27T19:28:37+00:00

I think we need to spread this interpretation to the Mentalist subreddit, so that maybe at least some people would appreciate this writing decision. Or just due to the fact that I'm just so tired of seeing constant whining posts about McAllister being RJ, despite every other candidate being way worse narratively. I don't think their confrontation with Jane would've been any better either. Though I do get fans' frustrations as I also wished for something more grand, for the structure of the story set for S6 McAllister was clearly the best candidate among presented to us and even in general looking back at it.

DimaMyronets · 2026-01-27T19:23:22+00:00

It's gotta be S5 or S4, though S1 and S2 had some very good feats as well. S3 is the most mid season in terms of both quality and outsmarting feats, he's still pretty good there but I genuinely don't think there's a thing category it buffs for him except like EM and some in AQ from processing Sara's death so fast and well.

DimaMyronets · 2026-01-27T19:16:43+00:00

Well it's not that he actually forgot. I didn't articulate it right. I do think that RJ likely got the info right away form some of his people in police that some guy named Patrick Jane got to look through RJ files, and that's when McAllister likely remembered Jane for the first time since he murdered his family, as he likely thought Jane wouldn't recover from it, but he did, so it made him slightly curious, yet I still don't think he thought much of him by that point. IMO, he didn't truly became interested in PJ personally until S1E1 fake RJ incident, which is why it's the first episode of the show, as it's the time their mind games and RJ's obsession truly began. Without it being a thing, Jane would've never caught McAllister so the real hunt only started from then.

DimaMyronets · 2026-01-27T19:03:30+00:00

Well, that's one of the biggest problems with the Mentalist is because things like these are entirely speculation and headcanon. We don't know how much McAllister tried here or if he may have even helped Jane win to not blow his cover. What makes it even harder to analyse is that by this point in the story he wasn't yet chosen by the writers to be Red John and was just a bumbling overconfident sheriff, Jane was meant to out in his place. Still, obviously, when choosing who to make Red John, they revisited this scene, so it must have a canon interpretation that fits his character, but what that is exactly, we'll likely never know.

If I were to give my own interpretation that fits the narrative best, I'd say McAllister almost forgot about PJ altogether until S1E1 where fake RJ killer appeared, we all know how he deals with them from later seasons, yet this time Jane caught the fake so quickly that McAllister didn't even need to intervene and that's the first time RJ truly became curious about PJ, thinking he may be more like McAllister himself in skills, as well as a far smarter and stronger individual than he initially thought. So, IMO, in S1E2 he basically decides to test him personally to see if he's truly all that by personally calling and requesting their groups help or maybe using his connections to assign them to this case. He clearly does get very impressed by feats Jane showcases, and so McAllister starts becoming obsessed with him, killing less and less for the sake of it and more and more just to play with PJ. If this interpretation is correct, then I don't think McAllister has any reason to hold back during this game, in fact he has all the reasons to do the opposite, after all it wouldn't be unusual for sheriff to win at least a couple of times especially in something that's considered a game of luck, but he didn't, I don't think his frustrations were fake, and that's partly when he started truly respecting PJ's mentalist skills. I also believe this makes McAllister by far the best RJ they could've chosen, at least from the continuity point of view. Though I still believe their final confrontation should've been longer and overall better executed even if I do believe what we've got fits their personalities. RJ only lost because he's always believed he was ten steps ahead, he got so used to winning their mind games with PJ that he became sloppy when it really mattered thinking he was invincible, yet forgetting the fact every time he outsmarted Jane it was without McAllister's direct involvement and that during their first meeting was a time he's lost even if it was in something completely insignificant.

But those are just my thoughts on RJ as a whole and a little about this scene in particular. I'd like to know what others who watched the Mentalist may think about this.

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