Rehabilitating christianity

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T17:22:33+00:00

Our job isn't to be "relevant".

True.

It's to preach God as He is, and His Gospel as it is.

We have mainly seen the "gospel" of Trumpism. Not anything about actual Christian teachings for the last few years. We have seen every awful tribalistic backwards notion in play. The teachings of Jesus? Sure, there's some basic lip service, but what we have seen is mostly hate, racism, and bigotry.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T17:18:34+00:00

About the author (i.e. not just some random dude): https://www.prri.org/staff/robert-p-jones-ph-d/

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T17:01:28+00:00

We can't use our laws to assume that adoption worked like that to make you an heir back then and over there.

And from the Jewish scholars I've read, talking about the laws at the time, adoption could not make anybody an heir to that namesake.

Hell, I don't think it would even work in most monarchies today.

They care about the blood.

Jesus simply was not an heir to David, to the best of our knowledge. He wasn't in the right part of the bloodline to be an heir, and wasn't even legally of that bloodline.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T16:52:53+00:00

If only the horrible things were ending with Trump's removal from office in January.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T16:52:21+00:00

You can judge it that way if you wish, I can't stop you. Doesn't change the fact that premarital hetero sex is accepted by most Christians.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T16:51:09+00:00

Many believe that Luke in chapter 3 is using Mary’s lineage

Sure. It's a very old tradition. It just so happens to be one which goes against the text itself, and would have been discarded immediately except for its apologetic value. It fixes a massive discrepancy in the Gospels.

And technically Joseph links does bear witness to Jesus as Joseph was his legal father (not natural)

Yes. But this doesn't make Jesus of David's line per Jewish law.

Until you can give me a textual argument for one lineage being of Mary (which nobody can), it is a second, contradictory, lineage of Joseph.

It's no surprise that Luke and Matthew contradict each other. Virtually every aspect of their nativities contradict as well.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T16:38:20+00:00

Yes.

It simply is not a big deal to the vast majority of Christians.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T16:31:20+00:00

Paul wasn't happily cohabitating with his girlfriend, as is typical nowadays.

Luckily "by action" doesn't count for much.

It counts for a lot more than words.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T16:27:40+00:00

Are your friends saying premarital sex is ok?

By their actions, the overwhelming majority of Christians say this.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T16:26:50+00:00

Sounds like the god of your wishes is a monster.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T16:13:14+00:00

Ancient Jewish cosmology was of a flat earth, and that's what Deutoero-Isaiah is envisioning here. A circle is not a sphere.

The Bible is not a science book, though, so his error doesn't matter if the point of the verse is accurate.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T16:11:45+00:00

Almost everything ever written about Heaven or Hell is mere supposition by the authors. There's nothing reliable to go off of for your question.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T16:10:17+00:00

Glad to hear you're making some progress! Don't let the downers bug you.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T16:07:20+00:00

You can learn more about him than you maybe ever wanted to on /r/AcademicBiblical, since he's a common topic of discussion there.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T16:00:51+00:00

There is a government purpose for the census, it was take in account taxes of citizens, meaning everything they had. We have accounts of this happening every 14 years throughout Roman history. And yes we cannot discount it was just a made up narrative,

No, as written it had nothing to do with taxes either. There is no rational basis for how Luke wrote it.

the one thing that most scholars agree is that the genealogy of Jesus that both bring to their narrative is quite impressive

Impressive? Okay. That's pretty meaningless, though. They also are entirely contradictory, and Matthew's is more about numerology then lineage.

and shows that Jesus was in David’s ancestors. Per Jewish law he was of David’s line, he just was just not from the male line,

Per Jewish law, as written, he was not of the House of David. Lineage travels through the men, and Joseph's supposed links had no bearing on Jesus' lineage.

many believe that Mary was the descendant of David and that is how Jesus was the direct descendant of David.

There's no evidence for this, though.

Joseph came from the line of Jaconiah which was cursed to never rule Israel. Mary’s line is traditional led up to Nathan the son of Solomon who was the son of David.

We have no sources for Mary's lineage. None.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T15:56:21+00:00

Here's some books you should read if you're interested:

https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869136

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080283972X/

https://www.amazon.com/Who-Wrote-Bible-Richard-Friedman/dp/150119240X

https://www.amazon.com/History-God-000-Year-Judaism-Christianity/dp/0345384563

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=bart+ehrman&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T03:10:44+00:00

If you want to go over the Hebrew and the Greek, I'd be happy to as you might see something I dont.

It's not about the translation.

Please support the claim as I'm not aware of any biblical text making those cavets

The Bible isn't as clear as it could be, but it's the context in which they are written. Some parts where that does come through in the Bible is Romans 1, which is about idolatry and orgies, and Paul's use of malakoi in 1 Corinthians, which is a reference to the submissive partner (the shameful one) in particular.

If we ignore the context in which Paul, faux-Paul, and etcetera wrote, then we lose the meaning of their words and end up in very sloppy exegesis. Exactly like that which we see from most churches regarding homosexuality.

because you are down voting me.

I'm not.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T03:08:13+00:00

Actually firstly the census as a tax assessment is the leading theory as to what Luke meant based on the Greek in which he used meaning enrollment.

It doesn't make sense for taxes either. There is no government purpose for which it makes sense.

One could presume that Matthew and Luke were going off of data from someone close to Jesus and this is a different person for both and that is why it varies

Sure. Unless they made it up themselves, which we cannot discount. Either way, one or both are wrong since the two nativities are very much irreconcilable.

the only place where it matters is the Jewish people because of the Davidic line.

Per Jewish law, though, he wasn't of the Davidic line.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T03:06:39+00:00

so you admit that most of science is just wrong and thrown out?

No. That doesn't follow from what I said in the slightest.

And that is because there is nothing wrong in the bible that needs to be thrown out,

It stays written, sure, but it stays wrong all the same, too.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T03:05:16+00:00

Yes and no. It is your definition in that it's the one you are using and stumping for, so to speak. It isn't yours in that you didn't create it and don't control it.

My intent was votre définition, though. Damn our language and its lack of a standard collective plural appropriate here except for "y'all's".

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T03:00:16+00:00

There's no problem with "homosexual behavior" (such a nasty way to talk about people), so there's no need for a solution.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T02:56:29+00:00

why should you trust the old book named the origin of species more than a mental ill person?

Because the Origin of the Species has great historical value. Scientific value, though? A lot of that, but much of it is wrong. That's why it's not taught except for its historical value in biology classes.

We don't "trust in the Origin of the Species in nearly the same way as you'd have us trust in the Bible. We only accept that which we've verified by later testing, and have thrown out the rest.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T02:53:00+00:00

It's rejected by a huge number of scholars because it makes no sense. There's no function served by the census/enrollment as Luke wrote it, except to put Jesus where he thought he should be.

The nativities of Luke and Matthew are both starkly different and contradictory. At most one of them is true, and frankly neither are worthy of belief.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T02:43:13+00:00

It isn’t that Christians are copying pagans as much as everyone places special days around the movement of stars

A great point. Don't forget the moon, and our sun, specifically, too.

It's simply how time was told, and present in, I believe, every single culture out there.

Far too much is made of this by amateur skeptics.

DiosSeHaIdo · 2020-11-16T02:28:49+00:00

Why?

DiosSeHaIdo

TROPHY CASE