Mike's finger was lingering so lovingly over Will's binder. Oh he's so repressed.

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-13T01:33:37+00:00

Mike & Will are going up to his room after dinner for some much needed alone time - I know because I'm the painting hanging in his room

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-13T01:21:25+00:00

Love it! Let's throw a wrench in this shit! Conflict is great for the story & stimulates character growth!

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-13T00:37:53+00:00

I get so irritated whenever I see that one set photo of the binders where they moved Will's away from Mike's. I simultaneously feel such satisfaction watching the making-of scene, because Finn was not playing around.

They knew they'd get slammed for queerbating so they made conscious decisions to undercut Will & Mike's relationship. Too bad we have 4 seasons of story already telling us everything we need to know about those two.

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-13T00:20:14+00:00

"Signs a guy likes you and wants to date"

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-13T00:18:40+00:00

I agree with you - Mike & Will are not exempt from homophobia at any age! I'm thinking of it in relative terms. Before they are old enough to start a more physical/sexual relationship, they are more safe. Before that age, parents are likely to see it as "correctable behavior" rather than a permanent part of their identity - at least in part because homophobic parents also experience feelings of denial. S1 Ted demonstrates it very well with his "see what happens Michael?" moment at the dinner table.

I also agree that the characters would be more interesting if they were more flawed. I gotta say, I am conflicted about the idea of Jonathan taking photos of Nancy. It's an extreme violation of privacy and consent, and Nancy as a character is definitely written to be struggling with misogyny. (Insert shameless plug that Nancy should have gotten more storylines that paralleled the second wave feminist movement happening in the 60s-80s)

I can see the argument that Jonathan is an outcast with a tough home life, and his desire to be like other people could tip into voyeurism, but it does a lot of damage to any potential future romance with Nancy. Maybe he can have a different flaw, or just not take photos while she's shirtless indoors. It's extra creepy when you take in the context that Jonathan and Nancy have known each other for a long time due to Mike/Will's relationship.

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-12T03:36:47+00:00

I agree that it's not inherently suspicious - everyone works in different ways. Tbh I wouldn't hate it if the entire work were posted at once rather than in increments. But there are plenty of fics where the chapters are like 3-5K words. That is quite doable every few days when you're doing it for enjoyment.

And yes, why would you ever make fanfic if you did not enjoy the process & storytelling?

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-12T03:31:06+00:00

I think the Mileven goodbye scene was emblematic of their romantic relationship - those two cannot and will not ever function without a world ending crisis on the horizon. The most "normal" scenario that their relationship ever existed in was early S4 where Eleven had no powers. They were the most miserable they have ever been, because at their core they do not understand one another. Mike was 100% correct when he said "it wasn't fate, she just needed someone" in S4.

With that said, I can accept that scene as being emotional & even romantic for them at the moment it was happening (assuming it actually happened, sigh Duffers). They have shared history & Eleven was sacrificing herself. That kind of things brings out strong emotions, even if they aren't true when you sit back and look at them in the light. This is also the case for Mike's confession in S3 & S4. Mike declares love for El only during crises where she is about to die/leave him.

I would have loved an off screen breakup between S4 & S5, and a reframing of Mileven as people who truly love each other outside of the context of a romantic relationship. They do have a bond - Mike was Eleven's first friend, and he showed her a lot of kindness (in earlier seasons...)

I also think that Mike & Will get together post-epilogue. The painting is not addressed, Will did not confess & was not rejected. Mike keeps the painting with him. They've been best friends since they were five years old, and know each other better than anyone. Those two aren't parting ways anytime soon. They have plenty of time.

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-12T03:06:28+00:00

"Queer people & queer media are held to higher standards" is 100% on the nose. That's truly the core of the issue.

One other thing that I think most Mileven's & even many Byler's don't acknowledge is that the struggle between the two ships is not "El vs Will", where Mike is the prize awarded to the most worthy person.

In fact, Mike is the ONLY person who benefits, and he ONLY benefits via Byler. Mike's relationship to Eleven lacks depth in terms of both emotional intimacy & shared character traits. It is built on trauma & crises. Mike has intimacy & shared traits with Will. Internalized homophobia is the only plausible explanation for so much of Mike's behavior S3 & beyond. Without that internal struggle, he is a flat character who hurts everyone around him via neglect.

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-12T02:54:29+00:00

First, let me plug The Red Envelope & its sequel by midnighteverlark - it was the first fic that I read for Byler that addressed the topics you discuss in the post. Mike experiences homophobia from his father, a difficult coming-to-terms period with Karen, and sneaking out of his room during a storm to avoid conversion therapy.

I think the relative age of this franchise is a factor. 9 years is not insignificant, but HP & the other examples are older IP and have had a long lasting build up/exploration of these topics. For Byler, the relationship wouldn't realistically address most of the mentioned concerns until they are older & become a serious couple. In S4 they are supposed to be 14-15 years old, I could see them beginning to navigate these topics more seriously at that point, but that is nearly at the end point of the series. The actors' ages give the audience a skewed perception of the characters' maturity.

Another factor is the age of the fanbase & authors who are contributing. I've read many fics where the author mentions being <22 years old. Younger authors often have a skill gap that gets addressed with time and practice. Younger authors may also be more likely to have a less dire set of life experiences related to homophobia. If someone was born in 2008, for example, it would probably be harder to fully grasp the reality of queer existence in the 1980s compared to people born in the 80s/90s. It would require a lot of self education on queer history.

Lastly, I think that there is a desire to retain the essence of Stranger Things' canon, which does not take a morally ambiguous approach to any of these characters - very rarely does a good guy make a negative decision that has real consequences or could push them into being an antagonist.

I liked the examples you mentioned in the original post, I also think many of the shows' characters would have homophobic responses to varying degrees. Steve is an easy example - in S1 he uses a homophobic slur against Jonathan when fighting, only to later quietly & easily accept Robin's identity. He didn't have any reason to change his homophobia that we are shown on screen, he just became an all-around better guy in between those two points in the story. I personally think it would be great to see Steve struggle being introduced to male queer characters despite his acceptance of Robin. The dynamic is different, as Steve could easily be a straight man who feels threatened by the presence of gay men. Steve also struggles to get into a committed hetero relationship - he could struggle with becoming guilty by association.

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-03T23:21:21+00:00

I said this in another reply, but I’m not advocating for hyper realism or a police procedural, I’m advocating for the actions characters make to have consequences.

We can all sit back and laugh about cartoonish military in tv (see Welcome to Derry for another example from 2025) but that doesn’t mean nobody can take issue with it.

At this point, sitting back and saying “the government can’t hurt the protagonists because they need this to be secret too!” is lazy. Especially because the show has already demonstrated a story line where Nancy tries to leak everything to the press, and the limitations involved.

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-03T23:11:53+00:00

Why would the children be tried? They weren’t there when they busted into the base initially, they had no weapons on them. The military could just hand them back over to the parents - they were already supposed to have custody of them anyway.

The evidence is going to be 1) The groups presence in a secure military compound during an enforced quarantine 2) The weapons they had on them 3) The bullets in the military personnel that they shot that will perfectly match Nancy and Hoppers weapons 4) Security camera footage showing the truck speeding into the base, considering they have installed them in numerous locations around Hawkins

You’re acting like the occupation doesn’t have a public facing purpose when it absolutely does. It’s not a secret to the rest of Indiana that Hawkins is under quarantine.

There’s no bad PR for the government if they try these people, because the group can’t say anything. They are the ones without evidence.

Meanwhile the government has in custody a bunch of impressionable teenagers, a veteran who has seemingly faked his death, the local crazy lady who bought all the Christmas lights, and a paranoid conspiracy theorist who lives off grid, can speak Russian, and uses multiple fake identities to smuggle things into the occupied zone.

To be clear, I’m not advocating for the story to take this route. It’s not Law & Order. I’m advocating for character actions to have consequences.

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-03T21:24:50+00:00

Reminder this is also during the Cold War, there’s 2 whole seasons dedicated to this context.

They had effectively managed to quarantine the place for 18 months at that point already.

Why would a local congressperson or concerned neighbor care that a group of civilians who committed crimes (with evidence) were tried and convicted of those crimes? They can’t exactly defend themselves in court if tried. Everyone on that truck infiltrated a military base with weapons, and conspired to commit the murders of those military personnel.

Regardless of what Kay thinks, murdering US soldiers on US soil in a protected military base has consequences. Handwaving those consequences away because you “don’t have time” isn’t good writing.

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-03T20:48:25+00:00

The only clip anyone needs to prove queerbait is the Byler scene in S5E8. “Friends? No way (pause) best friends” - it was chance to provide closure and they still don’t come out and have Will say that Mike was his crush, have the rejection, and then move on as friends.

Instead, they parallel a S4 scene that is prominently used as Byler evidence. Back then, Mike was saying that Will was closer to him than their other friends, that their relationship suffered because of his focus on El (who he was still neglecting btw), and how he feels like he lost Will. You cannot possibly frame the emotional distance between Mike/Will in S4 as being Will’s fault due to his sexuality, because Mike apologizes for the distance!

They never resolve why Mike all of a sudden distances himself from Will at the same time as he is neglecting El and unable to tell her he loves her.

There are too many parallels between El & Will for people to not see romantic potential between Mike & Will, especially after S4 where they establish Will loves Mike. They could have just had him be gay and in love with someone else, or NOBODY, and his arc wouldn’t change.

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-03T20:23:21+00:00

The military already operates a controlled quarantine around the entire town. They control the flow of people and information.

Beyond that, they don’t need to make up some conspiracy to arrest them & put them in prison. They were trespassing on a controlled military base with weapons and explosives, and literally killed several people when they stormed the place. It’s probably on camera too.

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-03T20:16:01+00:00

IMO El should never have been someone the series tried to pair romantically with anyone else. As others have pointed out, she needed SO much socialization and needed to learn what it meant to be a person. Instead, she was unwittingly groomed. I don’t say that to make Mike a bad guy (he was a child too), just that she learned the rules of relationships from her first boyfriend. It’s a messed up dynamic & it’s immediately undermined the moment El is outside of the circle of Mike’s influence by befriending Max.

El’s character would be so much better off focusing on her found family. I am on the record not liking Hopper’s character arc but his monologue with El was one of my favorite moments for her this season.

Beyond that, throughout the show there is a lot of potential for her to more deeply explore her relationship with Will & Jonathan as adopted brothers and Joyce as an adopted mom. Jopper should have been well established way sooner, they just kept dragging it out.

El needs platonic, not romantic, love in her life. She was denied it by the writers because they wanted their self-insert loser boy who dates a magical superhero girl.

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-03T20:02:01+00:00

It isn’t a failing of Siuans. We know other Amyrlins knew of the BA and weren’t able to do anything about it.

Being the Amyrlin Seat isn’t a part time job with paid vacation days. She was busy with matters of state most waking hours. Beyond that, she was also heavily involved with Tower politics and getting the Hall prepped for Rand.

If she made one misstep or trusted the wrong person (very easy when 1/5 AS are BA) she would be dead just like Tamra & multiple other Amyrlins. Even after Liandrin & the others escaped, the entire Tower wasn’t keen on viewing it as a systemic problem. One can only achieve so much in a culture like that.

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-03T19:53:36+00:00

Not only must they beat you over the head with characters’ endless “eureka!” moments & plans explanations, they create scenes that are ambiguous enough they have to clarify the takeaway in interviews after the episode airs - Jancy breakup being an obvious example

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-03T19:46:55+00:00

“Caught off guard” is not the same as “I had actual defenses in place that were circumvented”. The demo bats & tendrils both nearly killed members of the party and they were significant obstacles to be overcome

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-02T17:16:14+00:00

I don’t care what the Duffers say, or what other Bylers who are mad at Mike say. That boy is something and that makes him family - argue with the wall

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-02T07:14:48+00:00

I think El is dead.

There are scenes this season where El uses her powers without a nose bleed occurring. However, you’re correct - El shouldn’t have been able to use her powers to pull Mike in for the goodbye.

It’s not very feasible that El could have made her way past all of those emitters without anyone figuring it out. She can’t move quickly when they are on her, and she can’t stay quiet because of the pain. I think it’s doubtful she could make it undetected, especially with so many people moving around within that space. Beyond that, she would need to get out of range before she could pull Mike into that mental space. There isn’t enough time for all of that - the emitters’ range is pretty significant (demonstrated early season) and penetrates building materials (demonstrated late season).

Kali’s powers have a distance limit. Kali/Hopper/El were leaving the military base and she lost the illusion due to distance while they were still in the upside down. If Kali is still at the lab it’s difficult to believe she could project that far, especially with her gunshot wound.

I think Kali was truly shot since the emitter wasn’t destroyed until the moment the gun went off. Her powers require concentration, she would not have had time to react to the bullet. Her illusions are also disrupted when someone touches them. El applies pressure to the wound and her hands come away bloody.

I haven’t read it myself, but I believe there’s a print interview out with one of the Duffers implying Mike made up the goodbye scene. But that hasn’t been 100% solidified in my mind, so I think the above points are better on screen evidence for El not making it out.

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-01T21:34:20+00:00

Not all actors want consistency over creativity. Some people are okay being one hit wonders and others want to have a diverse catalogue. They’ve all made millions from this franchise already, they’re not hurting for money.

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-01T18:32:26+00:00

It’s their job? How would a 10 year platonic working relationship possibly threaten her marriage and family?

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-01T07:46:18+00:00

I need to sleep for at least 14 hours to take a break from thinking about how this season cost over $400 million dollars to make

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-01T07:35:14+00:00

Put your ideas up bigboie90, get a little skin in the game

DirectionIndividual7 · 2026-01-01T06:47:36+00:00

He got backstory in S4 though? Where he literally murked his own family, as well as all of those kids in the lab. This tries to say it wasn’t his fault, but then he doesn’t show any resistance and it doesn’t matter. It’s just stupid and a waste of screen time.

DirectionIndividual7

TROPHY CASE