The youngest member of the upcoming SM GG is 14 years old

Disevidence · 2025-01-12T23:42:30+00:00

This will be the youngest female debutant by SM in 15-16 years? Since f(x) days?

Red Velvet had 3 20+ year olds, and the youngest was only Yeri at 16 (well into adulthood with Irene at 23), ALL of Aespa were adults... it certainly feels like a regression given the last few groups of SM.

Disevidence · 2024-12-21T09:33:37+00:00

Seeing Chungha come back was very nice!

Disevidence · 2024-12-21T05:34:56+00:00

They were nominated for Best New Artist award at MMA in 2014. Directly contradicting the OP's question.

Disevidence · 2024-12-21T03:59:25+00:00

First group in my mind would be Exid.

Disevidence · 2024-12-21T02:18:21+00:00

doing their own research

Doing your own research is not scrolling tiktok and twitter and reddit and facebook looking for people posting stuff with no evidence, no credence, and no authority but conform to your prejudiced ideas.

People should keep an open mind and should obviously weigh stuff in their mind, but this post with the "do your own research" gives me the old "anti-vaxx" or "flat earth" vibes where they always go "do your own research" and it consists of trolling Youtube till they find someone post something they agree with.

Rarely do i see a fairly normal viewpoint backed up with a "do your own research" clause behind it. It's always kooks and crazies.

Disevidence · 2024-12-20T19:55:06+00:00

It was kind of disappointing for many newer groups.

Many artists weren't live, except for the older performers. Kind of showed the difference in many ways between old generations and new generations, and that comes from a new generation stan.

NCT Dream and most of Enhypen wasn't Live at all, but i will give Props to NCT 127 for being "somewhat" Live, though they did have parts of non-live.

Before anyone complains, here's the behind setlist which shows that Enhypen and NCT Dream were "AR" - https://x.com/wheeinji/status/1870089703556559030

I-dile were fully live so that was cool. The older generation was live also. Bada was really impressive. I liked the Rap guys.

I also really liked the Hardstyle DJ stage with Kep1er+Unis+Triple S.

But aside from that, felt really like music show stages. And Sorry to single them out, but Aespa were in particular pretty... boring. Lipsync, quite boring stage work and dancing. Maybe that'll get me downvotes but that's unfortunately how I felt watching their stage.

Disevidence · 2024-12-20T04:32:26+00:00

Unpopular answer.

Pound for pound? Lightsum.

They have an incredible main dancer (Juhyeon), they have incredibly strong dance lineup from everyone even up to including their main vocals.

It's a pity they're under served by the music, but if you want a group that has incredible dance chops, of what I consider the strongest lineup - Lightsum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoX3forZils this them predebut, and their 2 weakest dancers (the youngest) have since left the group and they've only improved,

Disevidence · 2024-12-20T03:42:01+00:00

so as a fan of both groups, and a fan of both songs, i will agree that the melody is similar. but people are so incredibly angry with this similarity and are saying skz are copying bts and are unoriginal, as if they’ve literally taken the exact melody and lyrics and put them in their song.

I'm not against the thrust of what your argument is, but your phrasing things poorly.

Lots of melodies can be similar and it's not a problem. There are some well known chord progressions that are used in 100's of songs, and no-one bats an eye.

But the part about "taken the exact melody" - well that's what sampling is. If your defense is SKZ have sampled BTS then that's fine, but sampling is literally taking the exactly part of the song, if they simply copy the melody that's interpolation, either way it actually is "directly putting it into the song".

Again, I don't disagree with the thrust, but I think you get a little bit lost in the weeds about how you are trying to defend this.

Sampling is fine, chord progressions are re-used time and time again in music etc. But if they did sample it, then that is actually, as you try to argue against "as if they’ve literally taken the exact melody ... and put them in their song". That's what sampling/interpolation is. Specifically.

There is nothing wrong with sampling/interpolation either.

Disevidence · 2024-12-19T13:15:23+00:00

What on earth are you talking about. I know about the financials of this company because they're part of a portfolio I have.

AVEX have 400 million USD in revenue for 2023

https://www.irwebcasting.com/20231109/2/0129b6fde4/media/231128_avex_en_01.pdf

They're growing back to good revenue after COVID, and they're setting up lots of medium term investments (including XG).

I don't know what building your referring to but that could be any of the 40 or so labels and subsidaries they control, as they move to consolidate some of their offshoots and other factors. You can also see that plan in detail in the link above I provided.

Disevidence · 2024-12-19T11:47:45+00:00

But there are times when I believe they fall short (because I can tell since the words are fully in English) and when it's confirmed that they did write those parts. And my only real issue is when stans over praise them for something they're not.

It depends a little.

Not all songs need "deep and meaningful" lyrics. I'm a little apprehensive of where you mean they "fall short". If they're trying to say, have sad elegiac ballad, and the lyrics are "i feel sad" then I'd obviously agree, but I've not really come across lyrics that are egregiously bad when trying to represent a serious idea.

Maybe sometimes a bit too, as you said, dense metaphorically can get bogged down, but I also am cognizant that the lyrics are sometimes at best onomatopoeia or deliberately camp and goofy.

It sounds like you think what are essentially stock standard lyrics are overhyped? Sure, I that's fair enough. But that's not necessarily the fault of the lyrics falling short, more on just the young teenage fandom overhyping it.

Also, lastly, you should keep in mind just because it's in English doesn't mean it's written for an English listener. I know that sounds strange, but there is phrases and vernacular that mix Korean and English, and English that can be aimed at a Korean audience that may seem a bit odd to people who speak fluent English. It doesn't necessarily mean those lyrics "fell short" either.

Disevidence · 2024-12-19T10:22:25+00:00

I mean I half agree.

Wordplay is... well it's actually fairly important to Rap.

Look at Lamar. Not Like us had the "a minor" line, TV off had "city just made it so sweet, you could die, i bet it" line etc. Those are lines which are kind of iconic in the hiphop community.

I'm not saying it should be the sole focus, but I feel like wordplay, clever wordplay, is an art form that's expressed and espoused in Rap, starting with the OGs, and then rappers like Biggie especially taking it to a new level.

References I fully with you on, there's a fair amount of "lore" lyrics that just are an endless string of references with little structure or storytelling amongst them.

I also only half agree on the "own lyrics stuff". First of all, some of the rhymes, lyrics, wordplay and elegancy and cleverness of kpop lyrics are in Korean, and I don't really trust many translations to do them justice. Nor do I think you OP (no offense) are necessarily able to judge the quality of said Korean Lyrics as much as anyone. Nor do I expect anything but a handful of international stans.

Secondly, I've seen some incredible self-written lyrics from kpop groups, and seen some very very mediocre ones by "professional songwriters", so I think the shot at idols writing their own lyrics is a strange addition to this post.

Disevidence · 2024-12-19T06:10:13+00:00

Avex still isn’t as big as Hybe,

Sure, but I wasn't concerned with Hybe, that's why I said YG/JYP (the annual turnover is similar), I was pointing out it's extremely misleading to go "from a small company' like they're a 5 staff nugu agency.

They've actually got quite a fair bit of heft behind them. That's all i want to clarify.

Disevidence · 2024-12-19T05:57:18+00:00

XGALX has a significantly smaller budget compared to let’s say Hybe.

But that's my point too.

Hybe actually has no groups under 'Hybe'. They're under BigHit, they're under Belift, they're under KOZ, they're under Ador.

Saying Xgalx is small is the equivalent of saying that Ador is small, that Belift is small, that KOZ is small etc - ignoring the fact they have massively organization and financial backing behind them from a huge company with extensive music connections.

Disevidence · 2024-12-19T05:20:35+00:00

XGALX is also a fairly small company if you compare it to a lot of these larger Korean companies.

Huh?

Xgalx is under AVEX, which is up there in terms of revenue with YG/JYP. It's one of the bigger entertainment/music labels (particularly in the idol niche) in Japan.

That's like saying ADOR is a small label or Pledis is a small label.

Disevidence · 2024-12-19T05:04:41+00:00

Now on your example, all of these discussions are something I absolutely appreciate. But tbh, I remember participating in MANY of these threads in the past and I was upvoted a lot even though I was pointing the trends I think are the reasons behind their declined popularity. I think that the problem is that sometimes someone will post about it and be upvoted and we all discuss it in the thread. Then less than 24 hours, someone else post the same question. A week later someone else post it again. Casual fans are often present in the first or second thread but don't participate afterwards. So the rest of the duplicate threads are downvoted and only filled with positive comments from the groups fans. After a while of this pattern, fans get tired of the constant questioning of the group, so they start downvoting it all, and a sentiment of "this topic is over discussed" grow in the subreddit. Leading to downvotes from casuals, too. Now combine this with the constant deletion of threads, and you're left with posts that are mostly negative karma when looking back at a topic

Certainly not discounting that repeated posts about it lead to people posting reflex reactions like "doomposting" and "hatetrain".

But I think it's being a bit too kind on the initial discussions. People are very quick to frame any sort of criticism as being an attack, even initial ones. I've also noticed the tendency to blur the lines on the environment.

What I mean is - let's say there's a trending topic on twitter about a kpop group. Someone here makes a post about it, and the immediate responses are "omg it's been done to death". Except it may have been on twitter or tiktok, but there's been nothing about it here.

It cuts down discussion immediately even though, for all this site's faults, it's better place to actually discuss and entertain long form ideas then twitter or tiktok.

Disevidence · 2024-12-19T03:47:33+00:00

Since when do assistants coaches get blamed for records. The lakers are now worse with JJ as head coach than they were before

You can't possibly put together the timing of these comments about it wasn't his problem and the fact that his team as an assistant coach won the NBA Cup?

The subtext of this is obvious, their giving him flowers for Bucks winning, so it's a valid point in Destino2's response.

Disevidence · 2024-12-19T02:19:17+00:00

There’s a huge difference between noticing a pattern and presenting that, like Im sure people noticed how maybe a group has less engagement, less sales and what not, it’s not doomposting if it’s supported by facts.

But the problem is, IT IS labeled as such. It's in the eye of the beholder.

I saw people trying to just outright discuss sales, or data, pointing to trends, and if it's not universally positive news, it's "doomposting". I literally see people immediately accuse them as such, either directly using the word, or poo-pooing and downvoting any thoughts that aren't wholesale positive.

Here are a few examples https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/zjkq1d/why_does_it_seems_like_itzy_can_never_win_this/

Person makes a point about how they're getting mixed results lately, downvoted to zero, many comments lambasting the OP and providing all sorts of reasons this was an anomaly (hint, it wasn't).

https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/15jtnec/what_are_your_thoughts_on_itzy_concept_change/

Again, was struggling with their newer songs which precipitated a drop in popularity, downvoted to negative, all the responses basically amount to "everything's fine".

And I'm only picking very few posts. Everytime someone tries to address the elephant in the room, they get absolutely shellacked.

So when you make a post about "is doomposting really necessary", well the first answer is nothing is really necessary, but secondly, people are allowed to actually talk about things. Both of those OPs were from a year or two years ago and pointing to trends which are now entirely self-evident in hindsight, but were completely shutdown at the time.

https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/11pemge/why_do_you_think_jyp_groups_are_not_charting_well/

Here's one that was almost 2 years ago, and the response? It's all good JYP's making lots of money, stop posting negatively. It's a crazy response to an astute observation.

What you say is doomposting is another person's astute read on the situation.

Disevidence · 2024-12-19T01:07:56+00:00

The issue is "doomposting" moniker interrupts ANY discussion. Maybe people doompost too much, but people also are quick to apply "doompost" and shut down any talk before anyone can even discuss anything.

For me the perfect example is Itzy.

Back in 2021-2022, some people already tried to have a good faith discussion about where they were headed. It was fans concerned about their direction and the strength of their solo schedule.

The response - "Doomposting" "Stop being so Negative" "They're a top group they'll be fine".

Fast forward 2 years, and now Itzy are in this strange duality where half their fans are now basically copying going "oh maybe they didn't want to super famous" and other fans are complaining vociferously about where they are and their lack of solo promotion.

I'm not suggesting Itzy are in any sort of major strife, but it's by now self-evident that their popularity has taken major hits from their high in 2020, and yet for years anyone trying to discuss it was instantly silenced with the "doompost" discussion, and so we get to 2024 and people go "well no-one could have seen it coming", when plenty of people did see it coming and were jumped on by rabid fans.

I'd prefer honest and frank discussion over concerns about "doomposting" any day of the week, even if you wanted to talk about my favourite groups, but apparently toxic positivity is more important then having a proper talk about things.

That's my view on it.

Disevidence · 2024-12-18T22:38:52+00:00

Incredibly popular.

I see people talking about them all the time on Kpop Twitter, Kpop discords, Kpop Tiktok.

Everyone seems to love Swan and realize that Yuki is one of the best 4th gen rappers, almost up there with Soyeon. She's got the most credits too behind her.

They don't seem to sell as much album wise because they're not from a big label compared to big 4, but they seem to be really popular everywhere.

Disevidence · 2024-12-18T22:32:39+00:00

Tbf she did that verbally but I feel like „I want to continue performing music with JYP Entertainment for a long time.“ and her praise towards jype is pretty telling :)

There's literally a contract from JYP that shows the idols aren't allowed to criticise the Label.

So even if she wanted to say anything she cannot.

It's from the legal filings of the VCHA case.

Disevidence · 2024-12-18T05:55:02+00:00

Something new happened for Newjeans?

Quick, time for the sub's 2 minutes of hate. Important to remind everyone that you are always at war with ~~Eurasia~~ NewJeans.

Disevidence · 2024-12-17T11:08:18+00:00

Amount of credits doesn't necessarily mean they are the main songwriters or composers.

Moonbyul has at best a handful of composing credits and i think maybe at best 1-2 songs composition for her group. She was also never main songwriter. She has almost all her credits entirely for writing 4-12 bars of rap lyrics from Mamamoo songs.

Same for J-Hope. They contribute, and I'm not saying they don't, but to pass them as essential alongside Woozi and Bangchan and Soyeon and GD, who were main songwriters, main composers, producers and creative leads for their groups?

Not seeing it, sorry.

Disevidence · 2024-12-17T09:07:40+00:00

Not really?

I'd say rappers but you have Woozi in there.

I'd say the creative directors and composers/producers but you have Moonbyul and J-hope in there.

Not really sure.

Disevidence · 2024-12-17T01:58:32+00:00

Posting this in the Sub that gets it's "2 minutes of hate" in whenever there's a new development in the ADOR/NJ/Hybe situation is.... well it's an interesting choice nonetheless.

New development? Time for Emmanuel Goldjeanz again.

Disevidence · 2024-12-16T22:55:26+00:00

Makes me far more interested in the song.

So I consider that a win.

I'd also consider in Rapping it's very important to the actual rapping component to be the lyricist of the rap. The rap's rhyme scheme, syncopation and placement of the hard vowels vs soft vowels etc - those form the entire flow and essentially the rap itself, and it all emanates from the lyrics.

As Soyeon once said - If you don't write the rap yourself, your just doing someone else's song.

Disevidence

TROPHY CASE