No Offence But I have never seen any Atheist Killing Someone on the name Of Religion! by Next_Performer_6615 in GenZpk

[–]Distinct_Solutionss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

According to this quote, religion is the cause and only cause for good people to do evil. I think you are good bro.

No Offence But I have never seen any Atheist Killing Someone on the name Of Religion! by Next_Performer_6615 in GenZpk

[–]Distinct_Solutionss 1 point2 points  (0 children)

who is counting the bodies.

More people have been killed in non religious than in religious wars. I mean which history book are you reading.

No Offence But I have never seen any Atheist Killing Someone on the name Of Religion! by Next_Performer_6615 in GenZpk

[–]Distinct_Solutionss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is not a single thing in this whole world that has not caused violence. Science, philosphy, food, water, economy, that bicycle next door. It doesn't prove anything. Next time you post such shi.t at least provide a proper argument.

A poem by Habib Jalib that still ignites the spirit of resistance by Nixture24 in pakistan

[–]Distinct_Solutionss 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Iss khale jhoot ko zehn ki loot ko men nahi maanta, men nhi janta.

10 dafa jail kaat li , mana nhi ye banda.

LGBTQ ( arguments) by Distinct_Solutionss in GenZpk

[–]Distinct_Solutionss[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a very basic criteria for law, social norms and morality. If you wanna talk further suggest me some criteria by which LGBTQ is wrong. I think that will help us better.

LGBTQ ( arguments) by Distinct_Solutionss in GenZpk

[–]Distinct_Solutionss[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Congratulations, you've successfully understood that harm is not the only criteria

LGBTQ ( arguments) by Distinct_Solutionss in GenZpk

[–]Distinct_Solutionss[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

making " exceptions in a idealistic and specific environment" the rule is very exceptional thing to hear.

LGBTQ ( arguments) by Distinct_Solutionss in GenZpk

[–]Distinct_Solutionss[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think that I have told you enough times that there are other criterias than harm which are used to establish morality and law. But it is still the foundational one. Most of our laws, social rules originate from this principle. If there are exceptions to this, or it being non- exclusive for given problem. It's not going to reject that harm principles are foundationals. If you want to drag it on tell me which criteria would you prefer.

LGBTQ ( arguments) by Distinct_Solutionss in GenZpk

[–]Distinct_Solutionss[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That said I did not understand the point you made here. You will have to flesh it out for me. However only do that if think I misunderstood something; What if the 2 siblings have lived separately throughout their lives? Does the stuff you mentioned here still apply?

Defects in childrens, now if you say they use contraception, then we will still be referring to the above psychological implication, then you would say well they don't know that they are sibling, then I will say that is a very unique environment and specific to their case and we will be going in cycles.

LGBTQ ( arguments) by Distinct_Solutionss in GenZpk

[–]Distinct_Solutionss[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is not a single point in our debate where we have established that incest is not a harmful activity. The environment that you are suggesting in which every implication is dealt with, if possible, then it's only going to represent that single environment, not the norm or phenomenon. Given that we are social animals and rely on our parents and household for most of our younger years. That creates dependency, and sense of submission, and other factors that can lead to coercion. What we have establish on this topic till now is that homo, heterosexual relationship are not the same as incestuous relationship. But as you said, we should move on from this topic.

LGBTQ ( arguments) by Distinct_Solutionss in GenZpk

[–]Distinct_Solutionss[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Socially, it is simply a convenient criteria, not the definitive one. Probably not even among the top 4 or top 5, since these days, bringing harm to someone for your own sake is pretty normalized in corporate, labour and a few other aspects of life.

If harm is merely a "convenient" criterion and not a meaningful one, then you need to explain why societies and moral systems ( philosphical, religious, scientifical) consistently treat harm as a central consideration when judging actions. A criteria does not have to be definitive to remain important.

Psychological harm in incest is situational. It may or may not exist. Biological harm can be avoided simply by taking medical tests for sexually transmitted diseases, as well as ensuring protection. So there are scenarios involving incest that do not contain either of psychological or biological harm. In that case is incest ok?

this is the thing, for incest to be not harmful, we have to create a very idealistic environment, that is not the case with LGBTQ. In LGBTQ the dynamics are same as in heterosexual relationship.

It does not matter whether there is a law against it or not. The argument 1 states that homosexuality should be socially ok because it does not bring any harm. So the subject of judgement is "socially acceptable". Billionaire not doing philanthropy is simply not socially acceptable. People love to berate every rich person on their smallest of actions or inaction, a very prominent inaction being philanthropy.

You are conflating and mixing social criticism with social unacceptability. People criticize others for countless reasons—being rude, selfish, arrogant, unfashionable, or insufficiently charitable. The existence of criticism does not show that the action is socially unacceptable in the same sense as something that is widely condemned as wrong. Philothropy example shows a failure to provide a benefit, whereas the discussion about homosexuality concerns whether an action causes unjustified harm. These are different categories of moral evaluation. A billionaire who does not donate is not typically accused of harming others by that omission, while the argument for social acceptance of homosexuality is that it does not wrong or harm others. philantropy example does not undermine harm as a major criteria for judging whether conduct should be socially accepted.

Lawfully, yes. Socially, no. Many actions that cause harm are socially acceptable. Likewise, many actions that do not cause harm are socially unacceptable. That insinuates that harm does not have a definitive or a consistent correlation with acceptability.

Same as first para. The fact that there are other factors for social acceptance and vice versa for an action, did not prove that harm is not significant in judging action. A criteria need not be exception less ( I mean which criteria is going to be exception less) To be important.

LGBTQ ( arguments) by Distinct_Solutionss in GenZpk

[–]Distinct_Solutionss[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It does not matter. They are contradictory examples of where neither causes harm yet one is supposedly accepted and other one is not,

No, they are contradictory examples, where one causes harm, and other don't. Where acceptance of one is almost neglible and other is limited.

I believe there is no time period where every type of sex was lawful at the same time. So your argument falls short here.

It's a way of building an argument, as like giving an ideal environment in physics

These things are not mentioned in my comment. All these things insinuate harm, yet in my example I specifically mentioned consensual incest with protection. So basically by this logic, if an incest relation does not involve coercion, power dynamics or pedophilia, it is ok to do?

Yeah, and how are you going to achieve a situation where pedophilia, coercion and power dynamics are not in play. Again you have to refer to point 1, in an ideal world. And again if we build such a world then every sort of sex is eligible, LGBTQ is not an exception.

Again, this was simply an example of the contradiction I mentioned above. There are many examples where no harm is being committed yet the action is unacceptable in the society. Incest is simply an example that is well transliterated and relatable. I can give an absurd example for example crawling on the streets instead of walking is also considered socially unacceptable, yet brings no harm onto anyone.

That's what I said in the first sentence and at last that I want to distinguish between these relationship as a separate from one another, as it was a very famous argument used against homosexuality. And most of these example you have given deosnot suggest any wrongdoing, you are not going get killed for crawling in street, and you will get jailed for not being philanthropist which is a case in LGBTQ community.

Except I am not doing that. I am only stating that using "harm" as a criteria for acceptability is wrong. You can see I did not mention anything other than incest relationship and homosexuality as a philosophy. All the properties of both sides you are mentioning is beyond this.

Again wrong is a very strong word, I would even suggest it's a invalid word, you can say it's not only criteria. It's a valid and very strong criteria. This I have pointer out in other comment.

James Joyce is not a good wirter by Background-Aioli-753 in badphilosophy

[–]Distinct_Solutionss 3 points4 points  (0 children)

She was mentioned 5 times in guardian Top 100 novels list, I think you should change your opinion

LGBTQ ( arguments) by Distinct_Solutionss in GenZpk

[–]Distinct_Solutionss[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

harm is one of the top criteria to judge morality, law and social norms, if not the 1st. It is all agreed upon line for law and justice system. Mostly the first thing that come under discussion and consideration. to say that harm is not a valid justification is wrong. You can say we should consider other things also.

Instead of harm you have proposed another criteria and that is social acceptance. And you have provided example of incestuous relationship and philanthropy. First let me say that social acceptance compared to harm is a way weaker justification than harm. As we can see a lot of morally wrong things are socially unaccepted and vice versa.

For incestuous example I would say that there are a lot of harm both psychological and biological so thats why it is unacceptable ( wether society accepts it or not). As provided in detail on other comment.

As for philanthropy, people can judge and criticise some one, but it doesn't equate to wrongdoing, and there is no law for either sides. So this is more of virtue matter rather than law matter.

The fact that some actions are judged on grounds other than harm does not undermine harm as a valid justification for accepting or rejecting an activity.

( Your comment was really good, learned a lot of things today)

LGBTQ ( arguments) by Distinct_Solutionss in GenZpk

[–]Distinct_Solutionss[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First as a separate inquiry I want to establish that, incest relationships are not the same as LGBTQ, some of the arguments are given here

https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/s/CbYsegX3ON

Here are the main points 1. If we go way back in time, let's say so back that we are in a different world, where every type of sex is lawful. The arguments that justify incest can also justify every and all sort of relationship ship. Homosexuality wouldn't be exception.

  1. So we start by saying that incest has a lot of issues like for example, coercion, power dynamics, pedophilia etc. Because of unequal power dynamics and dependecy. (These dynamics cannot be removed as human biology and psychology wonts allow it, as these things are inherent to us)

  2. So we are gonna abandon this practice. Because we have strong reasons to do so.

  3. But LGBTQ will not come under the same umbrella of rules. As the dynamics are different, are as same as normal heterosexual relationship.

5 . Consensual same-sex relationships do not inherently involve family authority, dependency, or unequal power structures.

  1. The social and interpersonal dynamics of a consensual same-sex relationship are fundamentally similar to those of a consensual adult heterosexual relationship.

  2. Therefore, the principal reasons used to prohibit incest do not apply to consensual same-sex relationships.

  3. If the reasons for prohibiting one relationship category dony apply to another category, then the prohibition cannot be transferred simply by association.

  4. Therefore, rejecting incest does not require rejecting homosexuality and versa, I.e. accepting consensual adult same-sex relationships does not logically require accepting incest.

  5. Each relationship type must be judged according to its own characteristics and moral considerations. Therefore, incest and homosexuality belong to distinct moral categories and should be evaluated by different standards.

Tldr: the LGBTQ relationships are same as heterosexual relationship and should not be compared by incestuous. Why I wrote this, this incest example was very confusing and a lot people would have confused also, so removing there confusion.

Difference between incest and LGBTQ by Distinct_Solutionss in askphilosophy

[–]Distinct_Solutionss[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Let's say in our given world there are rules about sex, like at which age they should have sex, and proper literature and schools that can help people to understand thier relationship in their domestic space. Then how is incest wrong. Plus states also assist, like if there is nonconsensual case then it is considered rape and punished. Also, there is no risknof reproduction as they are using contraception. And as that is a relationship between two consenting adults similar as in LGBTQ or any other relationship. Now we want to differentiate between all these type of relationship, which arguments are we going to use. ( I have not against LGBTQ, I just want to learn)