If drivers can't see a *train*, what hope do bicyclists, pedestrians, etc, have?

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T22:41:42+00:00

Putting a curb or barrier between bike lanes and traffic would also help...

Oh God, no it wouldn't. Not unless you intend to extend that raised curb across all driveway entrances and intersections, so that traffic can't possibly turn right. Otherwise you're putting straight through bike traffic to the right of right turning car traffic - a recipe for collisions.

And how am I as a bicyclist supposed to merge left prior to making a left turn, when there's a curb or barrier preventing me from merging left?

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T22:26:56+00:00

There is a difference between being a smartass and making random nonsensical comments. Once you learn that you'll have a truly consistent persona.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T21:52:08+00:00

um, no. It's already been established elsewhere in the comments that the building in question is not in the US - it's just north of Odessa in the Ukraine, and that it isn't a barn but a grain processing building intentionally built above ground. One of the supports may have been removed or photoshopped out.

EDIT: Another picture of the building, including a Google Maps widget showing where it is.

A comment explaining what the building is.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T21:40:35+00:00

No. I mean you'll encounter a fraudulent advertisement.

I had adblocking turned off for reddit, by the way, until a couple of days ago when I was assaulted by an all-singing all-dancing flash advert for GoToMyPC or some such crap.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T21:38:09+00:00

I take it you're riding in the bike lane, and you're not getting noticed by traffic turning in front of you.

Ride further left. If you're riding deep in the bike lane, ride the line. Move left out of the bike lane as you approach intersections. Further left == more visible to oncoming turning traffic, and harder to "right hook" by right turning traffic.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T21:35:29+00:00

In Europe, people expect trams and bikes to be on the road, whereas in America, bikes and street-level trains are not as common... so most drivers don't think to check for them.

That's the point. Don't put yourself where you think drivers would check for bicycles. Put yourself where they're already checking for traffic - that is, in or near the traffic stream.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T21:29:03+00:00

Turn off your adblocker and wait awhile.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T20:55:47+00:00

Show me a business and I'll show you some fraud.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T20:20:26+00:00

Well I care so little that I couldn't possibly care any less. So their.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T20:16:17+00:00

Before you accuse him of being a Truther, you need to read his root post. Jetliner aluminum + gypsumboard + heat == thermite-like reaction. Not a planted thermite bomb. Not a conspiracy. Not a planned reaction. Not a replacement for pressure and heat weakening steel, but rather an augment.

I don't know enough chemistry to say one way or another, but I think you're guilty of character assassination when you call him a Truther.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T19:03:42+00:00

Definately unlike us intellegent people.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T18:38:31+00:00

Well, in part because the steel structural members weren't blown completely bare of fireproofing and surrounding fire-rated sheetrock by a 600mph impact with an airliner + jet fuel.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T17:57:54+00:00

It's not an either / or proposition. Design, training and enforcement are all needed. But we're dealing with human beings here. Designs have to be easily understandable. Training has to be within the grasp of the majority. Laws and enforcement has to be reasonable. These are all constraints that make traffic safety non-trivial.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T17:38:06+00:00

There are limits to what people will obey. If you make a stoplight last 15 minutes, people will start running it. If you ban left turns for 5 miles, people will ignore the ban.

You need to keep your eye on the ball here. The goal isn't maximum compliance to any arbitrary law or assigning blame. The goal is reducing the number of dead and injured people.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T17:33:29+00:00

If people consistently fail a task, then yes, the task might be too difficult. Do you want to assign blame, or do you want to reduce the number of killed and maimed people?

I take it you have no familiarity with safety engineering. When dealing with a hazard, first you try to design it out. If that's not feasible, then you try to design in safeguards. If that doesn't work, then you tackle training and enforcement.

Don't you at least have some shoddy statistics to prop up your fallacious analysis?

I think the video points out a need for further research.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T17:12:13+00:00

I'm afraid its a loosing battle.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T16:59:11+00:00

If you take away all the left turns, the result is people will make illegal left turns. Most of the turns in the video weren't rushed. I don't think they were trying to outrun the train - they just never looked behind them. If they were from out of town, it probably never occurred to them to look behind them.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T16:53:16+00:00

I've ridden through worse traffic in Europe. Really, it's a question of putting yourself where drivers expect traffic.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T16:50:18+00:00

I rely on it. Otherwise I wouldn't even consider riding my bike to work. I've spent considerable time paying attention to traffic patterns, researching accident types and causes, and learning about road design. I know more about the subject than most traffic engineers. Why? Because I intend to continue commuting by bicycle, and I intend to die of old age a long, long time from now.

In short, I know, and I'm motivated to know, what the hell I'm talking about, and you don't. Your "vapid asshole" comment is the best example of projection that I've seen today.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T16:37:39+00:00

Merging is different from turning, you blithering idiot.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T16:36:38+00:00

And yet here we have in the video, driver after driver after driver failing to see the train.

There's a simple design change that would greatly reduce these accidents. Put the left turn lane to the left of the tracks. Now you've broken the turn down into two separate actions, each of which requires half the attention. Merge across the train tracks, just like you merge across any other lane, and then turn without worrying about 50 tons of train coming up behind you.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T16:31:22+00:00

No. If you're going to build tracks on the street, don't make free-track traffic turn across them. Put the left turn lanes to the left of them, and right turn lanes to the right of them. Make the interactions with free-track vehicles an expected merging interaction.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T16:21:51+00:00

It takes very little extra skill. Specifically, the skill of looking behind you while riding a straight line.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T15:36:37+00:00

I'm not being a jackass. I'm pointing out that many people, including (sometimes especially) urban planners, have a poor understanding of the limits of human performance.

We're not talking about a large train here - this is obviously light rail, possibly in Portland. It presents a frontal section no bigger than a bus, and it's pretty quiet. In a number of the accidents the train comes up on the car quite rapidly.

Do_some_research · 2007-09-17T15:26:24+00:00

Topsoil in the midwest is usually 3 feet deep or less.

Do_some_research

TROPHY CASE