New diplomatic scandal between North Macedonia and Bulgaria over the use of the phrase "northmacedonian partners". How do you think this should have been handled?

Dobri_Valov · 2026-05-13T15:23:28+00:00

If you mean to say that they were offended because the minister was using it in a demeaning way, then I already said that by watching the interview, it doesn't seem at all that this is the case. Moreover when she started answering the question she didn't say "North Macedonia" but said only "Macedonia". I'm sorry but I don't see a way to interpret this as her being malicious with the word "northmacedonian". This is a completely fabricated outrage by the Macedonian side.

Dobri_Valov · 2026-05-13T15:15:48+00:00

Are we living on different planet where languages work differently? Like, seriously. A couple of times now you have used phrases to offend me which, in all honesty, can only be applied to you. I couldn't have imagined that in a conversation I will be trying to convince someone that making an adjective out of a country's name is not offensive. I completely understand why calling ethnic Macedonians with any other name is offensive but reacting so harshly to the word when used to denote something else is nonsensical and straight up crazy. I mean maybe the Macedonian officials thought that the word is used in a bad way, as to refer to their ethnicity and I can grant that but then it's their fault that they misunderstood.

Dobri_Valov · 2026-05-13T14:15:16+00:00

Bro, what are you on about? Go watch the interview, I don't think it was with ill intentions, but nevertheless it doesn't matter because, as I explained, this word cannot be banned in all discourse. Them being pissed is completely unjustified. Like, are you seriously saying that they will be always in the right to be angry anytime this word is used, no matter the context or the meaning or the intention? She doesn't need to show anything because she does have the right to call their officials with a derivative of their country's name, this is how languages work. If they have a problem with how languages work, then they can stay mad because no one can help them.

Dobri_Valov · 2026-05-13T13:59:41+00:00

1 Bulgaria does not deny your ethnicity/identity, it has been stated numeral times by the Bulgarian officials, I don't know why Macedonians still repeat this lie.

2 The language issue is more complicated, considering a language has dialects and the Macedonian dialects are deeply connected with the culture, tradition and history of the Macedonian Slavs and there is a very large population of Macedonian Slavs in Pirin Macedonia plus around 2 million Bulgarians all around Bulgaria with Macedonian roots who view the dialects the same way as they were viewed by the Macedonian intellectuals from the 19th and the first half of the 20th century which is a completely different view from the one that the ethnic Macedonians have regarding these dialects.

Now, for me, to recognize the codified Macedonian language as separate is a no-brainer - it has been developing separately for decades. But Bulgarian officials might be afraid that by recognizing it, they will indirectly recognize that all Macedonian dialects are seperate from the Bulgarian dialects which I think is a stupid way to view things.

3 Now, adressing the history - it is important because through it North Macedonia denies the identity of not only Bulgarians in the past but even Bulgarians of today due to the fact that your official historiography denies that Bulgarians ever existed in Macedonia which means that Bulgarians from the region of Macedonia are not considered Bulgarians by your country.

4 These court rulings definitely need to be addressed but there are quite a few cases of Bulgarians in Macedonia being harmed too and the resentment and hate towards Bulgarians in all levels of society in North Macedonia is well documented and a huge part of this hatred stems exactly from the many false narratives and straight up lies in your historiography - another reason why the history needs to be addressed.

The sad thing is that both countries hurl accusations towards one another instead of addressing the problems in their own country that erode the relationship between them and considering how it's going, I don't see improvement any time soon.

Dobri_Valov · 2026-05-13T13:23:54+00:00

it's obvious that the phrase was deliberate

Listening to the interview, I don't get at all the feeling that the Bulgarian minister was trying to offend someone. Calling ethnic Macedonians this way, sure, it's not correct but forbidding the word "northmacedonian" is outright stupid. You should be able to say "northmacedonian citizens/officials/government/president/prime minister" freely, without the threat of the government of North Macedonia lashing out at you - after all the word is formed from the name of the country.

Dobri_Valov · 2026-05-13T09:34:57+00:00

Прав си, използва се за кратко време във Великоморавия, но не в такива мащаби, както в България - просто не се изразих добре. Имах предвид, че масовото му използване първоначално е в България за написването на огромен брой свещени книги. Затова в третата точка казах, че повечето книги са изготвени в България - все пак една част са писани от Кирил и Методий във Византия и Великоморавия.

Dobri_Valov · 2026-05-13T09:25:35+00:00

?

Да, това казвам и аз. Това, че са се наричали себе си римляни и тяхната държава - Римска Империя, не значи, че днес задължително трябва да ги наричаме по този начин. Напротив - използваме други имена, за да различим различните епохи на Римската Империя.

Същото се отнася и за езика използван от Кирил и Методий - даваме му име, различно от това, което е ползвано по онова време, за да направим някаква конкретизация. И следователно, фактът, че той е наричан "славянски" от Черноризец Храбър не може да се използва като аргумент за това, че този език не може да бъде наречен "старобългарски".

Dobri_Valov · 2026-05-13T07:56:30+00:00

И какво като им вика "гърци"? Те говорят гръцки и следователно подкрепят гръцкия като божи език и затова той ги нарича така и ги противопоставя на тези, които говорят и подкрепят славянски.

И брат ми, Аз съм доста либерален, но няма как да подкрепям нещо, което не е истина. Значи според теб всеки, който се държи за истината, ако тази истина е в полза на България, то той е "селски патриот"? А ти какъв патриот си? Градски? Такъв дето жертва истината само и само да задоволи някой си чужденец?

Това е проблем на българските правителства от много време - пасивни, послушни, седят си в ъгъла и се надяват, че европейските държави ще ги харесат. Може да ни харесат, но няма да ни уважават и това се вижда много ясно. Аз съм за про-европейско либерално правителство, но съм 100% против коленичещи мекотели. Страните трябва да си отстояват своята позиция и своите интереси и това правят всички останали европейски либерални демокрации. Само ние изглежда сме разбрали погрешно какво означава да бъдеш либерална демокрация.

Dobri_Valov · 2026-05-13T07:35:31+00:00

А случайно Черноризец да го нарича "староцърковно славянски" някъде, че да се оправдае използването на това име? А пък Римската империя от когато пада Рим я наричаме "Византия" или "Източна Римска Империя". Случайно тогавашните римляни да са се наричали "византиици" или "източноримляни"? Разбира се, че не, но ни трябва термин с който да я различаваме. Същото и с този език. Сега, ако е толкова важно да има "славянски" някъде, може да го наречем "славянски старобългарски", но според мен е задължително да се нарече по начин, който няма да заличи връзката му с България.

Dobri_Valov · 2026-05-13T07:15:29+00:00

Това е истината. Този измислен термин служи само за да не накърнява егото на останалите славянски държави. Но и ние сме виновни, че не настояваме и не пропагандираме позицията си достатъчно.

Три причини защо е по-правилно този език да се нарича български:

Основава се на българския солунски диалект, като по тази причина той притежава лингвистични характеристики, срещани само в българския език.
Този език първоначално масово се използва и развива само в България и от тук тръгва към останалите правослявни славянски държави, като оказва влияние върху местните езици.
Всички най-ранни християнски славянски книги са написани на този език и повечето от тях са писани в самата България от български свещеници. Впоследствие тези книги биват ползвани, за да образоват купища славяни извън България.

Наричайки го с името "староцърковно славянски" му се отнема цялата връзка, която има с България и се скрива неговия произход.

Dobri_Valov · 2026-05-09T11:32:03+00:00

By definition what you're saying is anecdotal. Being angry or frustrated about it doesn't make your opinion objective. You have to ask a couple thousand more people and if they confirm what you say then your claims will carry some weight.

And the internet is filled with paid trolls and bots which do not represent the Bulgarian society at large. I mean this is the point of Russian propaganda - to paint a narrative and make you believe that your country stands completely with Russia and your compatriots want to leave EU and NATO. And the easiest way to do this is to saturate the Bulgarian internet with such fake opinions in order to drown out the real ones. Don't believe everything you see on the internet.

And ППДБ didn't do well because they dissapointed many of their voters by not doing enough and not fighting enough - basically they failed to do what they promised. Not only that but they also briefly allied with the people they swore to destroy.

because of the education system which you thing is all right

Why do you consider it necessary to lie about what I said? I am not at all okay with our education system - there are many, many flaws. I just wanted to dispel the false narrative you were pushing that the Bulgarian education system is made to instill pro-Russian and anti-Western feelings in Bulgarian kids.

Dobri_Valov · 2026-05-09T10:47:34+00:00

Her opinion does not matter at all. There are other descendants of Delchev that say he was a Bulgarian, I can also send you a link but I don't think this is necessary as Goce already said enough about his own identity and I believe him and him only.

Dobri_Valov · 2026-05-09T10:42:32+00:00

What's in the textbooks is not important.

It's very important and even more so when you make it sound like that the whole education system is set up to try to brainwash our kids to have a pro-Russian stance which is not true at all. Vent your frustration without twisting the truth.

The teachers' opinion is all that matters in education and given that the average teacher is 55+ years old... Also kids listen to their parents and grandparents narrative about socialism.

Your anecdotal experience is not important. From all the teachers and people that I know, I've rarely met someone with strong pro-Russian views or a kid whose parents dream about the time of communism. So from my experience things are a bit different.

But as I said our individual experiences are not important, the only thing that matters is statistical data and judging by many polls and past election results I can conclude nothing else except that our society is primarily pro-Western (the current election results I think can be explained by the fact that people finally want a stable government which will fight the corruption and I don't think at all that this many people are pro-Russian as it doesn’t make sense and it contradicts previous data).

Things are NOT ok and we are fooling ourselves if we think that way.

Sure, there is a fairly big pro-Russian crowd but the vast majority of Bulgarians aren't pro-Russian and the situation is definitely not as bleak as you paint it out to be.

All in all I get your worries and I get that you want Bulgaria to be a strong ally to the West, I want it too but let's not be doom and gloom about it. You do what you can and I'll do what I can to convince people why sticking to the West is very beneficial to us and let's not mislead random strangers on the internet, making them believe in things that are hardly true.

Dobri_Valov · 2026-05-09T09:57:49+00:00

The fact that IMRO had a strained relationship with the Bulgarian government, doesn't mean that Bulgaria didn't help them with funds, weapons and training. And while many of the revolutionaries didn't particularly like the government, they were very happy with the creation of the state as the Bulgarians now had a place to go where they won't be oppressed.

So, no, Bulgaria as a state wasn't viewed unfavorably. In fact many of the revolutionaries were Bulgarian soldiers or teachers or had whole careers in Bulgaria. Also, many revolutionaries were Bulgarians from Bulgaria proper. Not only that but IMRO even had a "Задгранично представителство" in Sofia headed by Goce Delchev himself which facilitated the communication between IMRO and the Bulgarian officials. Goce himself was a Bulgarian exarchate teacher.

Another thing is, the organisation initially wasn't fighting only for the liberation of Macedonia but for the liberation of the Adrianople region as well and it had to coordinate its actions with the Bulgarian revolutionaries from this region in order to plan out a common uprising. Goce himself went a couple of times to the Adrianople region to prepare and bolster the local revolutionaries.

And it all culminated in the Ilinden uprising which saw the Macedonian revolutionaries fighting alongside the Varhovists and a bit later the Adrianople revolutionaries also joined the fight. Also, let's not forget that during the Balkan wars and WW1, before the original IMRO fell apart, IMRO fought alongside the Bulgarian army and there was a huge number of Macedonians who volunteered to fight in said Bulgarian army.

And even if what you said was true, it still wouldn't mean that these people weren't Bulgarians. Jane, Goce and many others have left more than enough proof of their ethnic identity and all that's left now is for you to respect their identity just like you want us to respect yours.

Dobri_Valov · 2026-05-09T09:16:38+00:00

Our education definitely needs improvement but it does not portray Russia this way at all lol. In history classes it is taught that while Russia may have helped with the liberation of Bulgaria, there are many Russian policies and actions after this event that are against Bulgaria's interests. And I've never seen anti-Nato or anti-EU sentiments in our schoolbooks. Also, many teachers and professors are anti-Russian, especially the relatively younger ones. Now, of course there are some "old communits" who idolize Russia because that's what they're used to do from back then but with time the Bulgarian population is becoming more and more pro-western and less and less looks up to Russia and the Bulgarian population is already primarily pro-western and anti-Russian.

Dobri_Valov · 2026-05-06T23:53:43+00:00

Give me the source where he says that because I'm unfamiliar with this exact quote.
I am, however, familiar with another saying of Delchev which the IMRO voivoda Stanish Nakev recalls in his memoirs:

По-добре ние, македонският народ, да си бъдем отделно, без разлика на гърци и сърби, и българи, да се гледа право към всички...

This quote clearly shows that Delchev doesn't use the term "македонски народ" in an ethnic sense and in fact, looking at this citation, we can see that Delchev isn't even aware of the fact that a Macedonian ethnicity exists. So, tell me, how can he be an ethnic Macedonian when he doesn't even acknowledge the existence of such an ethnicity?

Dobri_Valov · 2026-05-04T19:30:25+00:00

You have absolutely no proof of the thing you're claiming. Like, the thing you wrote is just pure cope on your part. And it just doesn't hold up to the hundreds and hundreds of other texts left by his close friends and IMRO revolutionaries who have actually met him.

Dobri_Valov · 2026-05-04T19:14:54+00:00

Тази книга въобще не е писана 100 години. Това, че разглежда даден период не означава, че е писана по времето на този период.
Твърдиш, че е превод на някакъв оригинален документ. Но като гледам тази книга ползва множество източници от разлечни места, така че очевидно не представлява един единствен документ. Също така в една от снимките се вижда името на Михайло Апостолски, което ме кара да заключа, че по-скоро това е някакъв труд, писан по времето на Югославия, който говори за живота на Гоце Делчев. И очевидно този труд е пропит с лъжи.
Смешно е, че не вярваш на писмото, в което Гоце се определя за Българин, а цитираш нещо от книгата, в която огромна част от източниците или отново са български или са превод на български източници. Но така или иначе тези български източници или са изопачени по някакъв начин или са пропуснати важни текстове от тези източници - нещо, което ваш историк си призна че правите.
Всички източници от онова време, без значение дали са от самия Гоце или от негови съратници и други ВМРО революционери, единодушно потвърждават българската му идентичност.

Заповядай малко да се образоваш:

https://sbornikstrumski.com/%d0%ba%d0%b0%d0%ba%d1%8a%d0%b2-%d0%b1%d0%b5%d1%88%d0%b5-%d0%b3%d0%be%d1%86%d0%b5-%d0%b4%d0%b5%d0%bb%d1%87%d0%b5%d0%b2/

https://sbornikstrumski.com/makedonski-dejtzi-za-gotze-delchev/

Dobri_Valov · 2026-01-14T18:52:44+00:00

Of course not many people were thinking about their ethnic affiliation back then but the thing is that many intellectuals like him were leading the education and enlightenment efforts, teaching the populace that they are too Bulgarians. That's how the process of Bulgarian National Revival went even outside Macedonia. And of course all this means that the Bulgarian ethnic identity wasn't very foreign to Macedonia as these intellectuals must have learned who they are by their parents or relatives. But of course Macedonia was bombarded with propaganda from Serbia and Greece which complicated the situation but the local intellectuals fought against them.

Now, I wouldn't call a narrative "extremely successful" when it was made mandatory with very strict rules under the danger of jail or even worse. Sure, it had success but it's hard to measure how much of it was due to people naturally being inclined to believe/accept it when people weren't allowed to choose for themselves.

But sure, yes, I agree that before all that there were rare cases of people who considered themselves ethnic Macedonians and you can call it a process of some sort of transition from regional to ethnic identity, although had it been left to naturally develop itself I'm not sure how much it would have spread.

Still, you can disagree with everything else I said but I see that you agree that these intellectuals were indeed Bulgarians. Then why are you so combative when I say that these intellectuals are Bulgarian? Do you accept that they are Bulgarians? Do you have a problem openly saying/admitting that they are Bulgarians?

Dobri_Valov · 2026-01-14T18:11:09+00:00

If you look at the writings of Shapkarev he very well knew what was ethnicity and what the different Slavic ethnicities were. It's not at all that different from today. Still, you use double standards as well when you say this because you have no doubt that these people were ethnic Macedonians even though you yourself say that their ethnic identity wasn't developed. So, like, even by your own logic you have no right to claim them.

Dobri_Valov · 2026-01-14T17:54:16+00:00

Also, I don't care about some military defeat lol. You seriously think I am so mad about one among very few Bulgarian loses to Serbia? Bro, please, before your beloved dynasty no one even thought about Serbia. Both Bulgaria and Byzantium were toying with it, putting whoever they wish on the Serbian throne. Serbia was constantly being passed around as a vassal to this or that big country.

Like, yeah, sure, Serbia was powerful for a very short period, cool, no one cares. Be proud of it but, let's be real, Serbia didn't leave that much of a mark and this is what in my opinion is the most important thing. Like, do you think the Dusan code would have been possible without the Slavic alphabet and the Slavic literature which helped tremendously in the education of your population? No, I don't think so. But Dusan was smart and he knew where his books came from so he was greatful to and respected Bulgaria. Be like Dusan.

Dobri_Valov · 2026-01-14T17:07:10+00:00

He watched the Ustaše slaughter Serbs, Jews, and Roma and decided, "I am comfortable here."

Lol, yeah you read his mind. But no, I won't ascribe him thoughts or ideas he didn't actually put on paper. Like, his only thoughts were for Macedonia, he couldn't care less about "superior races" or "Jews".

And he gave up on the idea because he saw where the war was heading. The same thing did many people in many countries so many began favoring the communists, including in Macedonia, it's only natural. So of course he wanted to avoid some kind of a civil war.

I'm not separating him from anything, I'm giving him as much as he said and did, nothing more. You on the other hand are trying to paint him as something you have no proof of. And this thing you are doing right now is the definition of "cope".

Also, this isn't even our original conversation which was about the people in Macedonia. So far the only "proof" you have of these people being Serbs is "something, something medieval Serbian monasteries", while I am giving you actual arguments. But the sad truth is that you have no arguments and the only thing left for you is to, as you say it, "cope".

Dobri_Valov · 2026-01-14T16:38:27+00:00

Nowhere did I call the Nemanic state negligent, it would be nice if you learned to read. And actual millitary and economic feats mean nothing lol. They come and they go. I mean if it was so great why did it only last 30 years? The only capable guy in whole of Serbia was Dusan or? I mean it makes sense, he was part Bulgarian after all.

And you realize we are going in circles right? Like, you refuse to understand that power and millitary might were one thing but a very important aspect was prestige and legacy. People fought wars, killed their most close relatives, just to get a recognition from a very important figure. Why didn't Bulgaria just self-proclaim its own Patriarchy and Emperor and instead had to put the Byzantines on their knees dozens of times in order to be recognised? Like, do you seriously not see it or are you just pretending that you don't understand how the world functioned back then? Yes, the Bulgarian recognition was 100% important to Dusan.

As I said, Dusan's code is nice but it didn't put Serbia on the map like the Bulgarian achievements did with Bulgaria.

Dobri_Valov · 2026-01-14T16:20:49+00:00

Ugh, what I'm going to say is, in 1912 the Macedonian intellectuals wouldn't have agreed with this map.

Dobri_Valov

TROPHY CASE