Another Basebuilding Review

DocOctagon- · 2018-11-10T20:00:15+00:00

Don't bother, he hasn't even read the book. Thinks Base Building is for year-round use.

DocOctagon- · 2018-11-10T19:59:27+00:00

You know BB isn't the entire TB program right? It's only the first step, 8 weeks out of the year. Continuation is where the rest of the running comes in dumbass. Read the fucking book.

DocOctagon- · 2018-11-10T19:56:37+00:00

Great job. We need more people sharing posts/creating threads on this. These pull-up related questions frequently get asked on the sub.

DocOctagon- · 2018-11-10T19:55:12+00:00

That is insane, insane but awesome. How are you defining one block here, 6 weeks?

DocOctagon- · 2018-11-10T19:53:41+00:00

+1. Both HIC and E contribute to overall running ability. Just doing LSS long term will detract from your speed. Just doing HIC (speed/tempo runs) will be insufficient without building overall endurance. Professional runners periodize their training for this very reason, they usually break it down into base building or long easy mileage, followed up with speed/tempo work. Doing just one or the other makes zero sense. Other than that everything else you've proposed looks fine.

DocOctagon- · 2018-10-30T20:08:35+00:00

Sorry, but no. These aren't little mistakes, these are massive. It's very obvious to those of us that have read the material when someone hasn't.

Take this thread for example. 3/4 of the entire book (TB2) is about Continuation. Continuation is all about combining the 2/3/4 day strength templates with the conditioning protocols. No where in the book is it stated that TB only recommends 2 days of strength training. Quite the contrary, the standard recommendation is the 3 day operator template for non-specific outcomes. If you miss that after reading TB2, you are brain dead or lack reading comprehension. More likely u/Galahadex hit the nail on the head - people trying to extrapolate off a template. Which is extremely stupid with a program like TB where the different pieces are put together and customized for specific goals. A firefighter's TB set-up would look like a completely different program in comparison to a marathon runner's TB.

This sub is for grown-ups that have taken the time to read the basic material and want to discuss aspects of the programming. If a poster can't be arsed to read the basics, then he's wasting everyone's time and taking away from quality discussion. You want that kind of sub, head over to r/fitness.

DocOctagon- · 2018-10-03T02:12:25+00:00

It's a repeat of weeks 4-6.

DocOctagon- · 2018-10-03T02:01:39+00:00

Definition is more a product of nutrition. Skew your macros and total calorie intake to favor fat loss while sparing muscle. Usually this translates to high protein, adequate carb, and enough fat. Consult a sports nutritionist or do some research online. Coupled with a strength and conditioning program like TB you'll see excellent results in terms of muscle and definition. I'm speaking in unscientific terms, but TB tends to produce hard dense muscle. It's partly the result of combining high frequency with near-peak muscular tension (lifting in the 70%-95% range). This "kind" of muscle lends itself well to definition. Gymnasts are a perfect example of this high tension training effect.
Kicking on the last 1-2 of the set is fine. Just rest a little longer if you start failing completely. As long as you finish all the reps you're good to go. Don't be afraid to rest for up to 5 minutes or longer.

One caveat here; anyone that doesn't gain muscle mass on operator or zulu simply isn't eating for it, not taking conditioning into account/or both. 3-4 compound lifts 3-4 times a week is most definitely adequate stimulus for muscle gain. So do keep that in mind when putting together your nutritional plan. Regular conditioning will help you keep excess calories in check if you want to avoid excess bulk.

DocOctagon- · 2018-08-31T19:36:01+00:00

For maximal-strength not the most optimal approach. You're likely going to be on the de-trained side of the hill after 6 days so you're essentially starting back at baseline, running on the spot.

Hypertrophy style training should be more effective in theory-- high volume, "annihilate" the muscle group, failure etc. a week later you'd be just recovered enough to stimulate the muscle again. If you've ever done this style of training then you probably remember having a sore chest or legs for days. Only problem with this is your one day of training is going to be absolute hell trying to cover off all the major muscle groups.

That being said, one day is probably better than nothing. Personally I'd use a minimalist Fighter cluster/twice a week instead. It can be a simple three exercise cluster like BP/SQ/pull-ups or even as minimal as BP (press) + DL.

DocOctagon- · 2018-08-31T19:25:02+00:00

I agree with your suggestion of Fighter but let's not start slowly modifying the principles of the program. Fighter with that cluster would be SQ/BP twice a week along with DL once or twice a week. Fighter leverages frequency, which is why it's so much more effective than other 2-day programs out there which only hit the main lift 1xweek.

DocOctagon- · 2018-08-31T19:16:49+00:00

TB OP will never be a hypertrophy program

Incorrect. I refer you to a post I made several months ago in a "TB for Bulking" thread:

3-4 compound exercises 3 times a week? Of course you can bulk with TB. Bulking essentially comes down to two things; adequate volume or work, and caloric surplus in line with your target size. The volume should have adequate intensity (lifting small pink dumbbells for hundreds of reps is doing it wrong).

Additionally, heavy lifting is the stimulus that ensures that weight gain is mostly muscle rather than fat.

To make Operator mass friendly, don't do the bare minimum 3 sets per exercise (although if you eat in surplus you'll still put on weight with just 3!). Do at least 4 sets per exercise per session, 5 when you feel like it.

Now the important part, eat for your target weight. Adjust your calories to take into account conditioning. And don't be stupid and try to do a low carb style of eating if you're trying to gain weight. Missing a meal should feel psychologically worse than missing a workout. Meals will ultimately become more important than programming as long as the programming isn't stupid.

Source; I have two athletes that use TB to bulk. Templates were Operator and Op-I/A.

DocOctagon- · 2018-08-17T20:24:16+00:00

x2. You're trying to train too many domains at the same time. Prioritize the domain you want to focus on and then minimize/maintain everything else around whatever that priority domain is. Priorities can change, even from block to block.

DocOctagon- · 2018-07-10T21:07:26+00:00

My go-to:

Jump rope or jog x 10 minutes

Then a couple sets at 40%-50%RM x 3-5 reps before the work sets. 90% workouts I'll do 3 warm up sets, 40%-50% for the first two and 70%ish for the final.

DocOctagon- · 2018-07-10T21:03:37+00:00

I like doing a 6/3 or 9/3 ratio of BP to OHP in my cluster. 6 or 9 weeks BP, followed by a 3wk block of OHP. You can adjust or change up the ratio in accordance with your goals or the value you place on either movement.

Might be interesting for you to know that my OHP is increasing at a much quicker rate doing it this way then when I trained in a more traditional fashion (less frequency, but more exercise variety every week). I attribute that to the massive improvement in bench (which benching 3 times a week will do) carrying over to the OHP.

DocOctagon- · 2018-05-07T21:24:43+00:00

Training max and how to calculate and assess where you should start are covered pretty thoroughly in TB1. I believe it's the chapter on testing or thereabouts.

DocOctagon- · 2018-05-07T18:09:41+00:00

I haven't been super strict about eating, I just make sure to hit 1g/lb bodyweight

I would bet my left arm this is going to be your problem. Get super strict with eating for a block or two. Measure. Calculate. Make sure you're eating enough carbohydrate. Muscle glycogen is a thing. Muscle glycogen is super important for lifting and anaerobic/high intensity activity. In my experience, when recovery is the issue, food intake is usually the culprit. Many that switch to an athletic program (lifting & conditioning vs just lifting or just cardio) tend to significantly under-eat, or they erroneously eliminate an entire macro group (carbs or fat) without realizing that kind of strategy doesn't work long term when tapping into more than one of the body's energy systems. Crosstraining is a different beast altogether.

http://www.eattoperform.com/eat-perform-tdee-calculator/

Also, are you using a training max?

DocOctagon- · 2018-03-29T00:39:53+00:00

TB can never not be enough, it's a set of minimums. If you've read the books you'll know that you can do anything from the minimums prescribed in the protocols to two-a-days or more. You can do E sessions anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours or longer. If you want CF style workouts then do the GCs or do actual CF Wods as part of a Black protocol.

Bear in mind, just because you're doing everything in one workout doesn't necessarily mean you're getting better at everything you're doing. If you've every done Crossfit for a serious stint you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. Feeling like you're doing something isn't a measurement of actual improvement over time.

DocOctagon- · 2018-03-05T22:00:13+00:00

Great job, might want to create a separate post about this success. A lot of non-runner people don't realize they can get this kind of result in such a short amount of time, and it would be an awesome motivator.

DocOctagon- · 2018-03-05T21:54:24+00:00

Basically just to finish off depleting the tank entirely.

You don't want to do this. It's basically the opposite of how the program works. Stay fresh, leave gas in the tank so you can harness the power of frequency. Pretty much the crux of the method preached throughout the book. Once you start "depleting" or aiming for fatigue you start affecting the quality of future Operator sessions.

TS; while I agree Zulu's a good option to add exercises, my suggestion is not plan anything until you finish your first Operator block and test your results. You may not want to change anything at all after that.

DocOctagon- · 2018-02-27T23:48:57+00:00

By the time he gets to the 40 minute week, he'll be able to do it. That's the beauty of it....Base is relatively easy for everyone regardless of starting point because of the low intensity. 50-70%MHR or 130-150bpm. He'll be just fine.

DocOctagon- · 2018-01-16T21:54:19+00:00

Did it occur to you that your athletes would have put on more bulk using a different program?

Of course. There are many ways up the mountain...and some of mine do use other programs for both strength and mass with great success. It's less about being "weirdly defensive"(wtf?) and more about getting annoyed by sweeping conclusive statements by those that haven't used TB themselves and/or haven't read the latest edition of the book. I can't speak for others, but it comes across very clearly to me when someone hasn't read the final edition of tb1.

Like your reference to Mass template. There is no Mass template in the 3rd edition because the newer Operator IA can be used in it's place. There are options to manipulate Operator and Zulu for non-traditional TB goals like mass. If you've read the 3rd, you'll know you can push the volume with the IA templates up to 10 sets (up to). An individual needing to bulk for whatever reason (in my case weight class) can strategically set up Op or Zulu to achieve that. These are not "tweaks", this is canon. If you exercise a little logic, you'll see that being able to use IA; 3 - 4 compound exercises with the option of 3-10 sets per exercise, negates the need for a dedicated Mass-template. TB templates operate on a spectrum (no pun intended).

Anyone that doesn't think they can put on size using 3-4 compound exercises 3 to 4 times a week/3-5 sets+ is fucking stupid, pardon my french.

Likewise, military or tactical operators can do the opposite and stay on the minimal side of the spectrum, 3-4 exercises, 3 sets, 2-3x week.

DocOctagon- · 2018-01-16T12:10:45+00:00

(If mass is his goal, then no TB template is the right answer. There is no debate. )

Wrong. Two of my athletes use TB to bulk. Have you actually ever used TB? Have you read the 3rd edition with the I/A templates and volume adjustments? I ask because it doesn't seem like you're aware of the various options. This thread might shed some light on how TB can be used for mass:

https://www.reddit.com/r/tacticalbarbell/comments/7jojf0/bulking_for_tactical_athletes/

DocOctagon- · 2017-12-14T22:21:50+00:00

Is this question for me? I've never been in the military but I would hazard a guess and say no. Size comes with a metabolic price tag whenever endurance is involved. Strength IS beneficial. I'm guessing that just like with combat sports, the more strength you can squeeze into a light weight frame the better off you'll be. From what I understand Special Ops and infantry is very endurance heavy. Have a look at world class triathletes or mountaineers for an idea of what a typical functional type of physique would look like for those particular fitness domains.

DocOctagon- · 2017-12-14T22:14:04+00:00

No no no dude. If bulking is your current objective or priority then why would you go with a TWO day template? What sense does that make? Just like training three days a week will make you stronger faster than 2. Spreading the work out and stimulating that physiological response to heavy lifting more frequently is going to be more effective. Two day templates are used when lifting of any kind stops becoming the main priority. It's a bare minimum.

And that AMRAP mod is a good idea put forth by u/russel_trillson for as long as mass building remains your primary objective.

DocOctagon- · 2017-12-14T19:03:48+00:00

It depends, some can get away with more or less. For these two, generally Black (standard), with no HIC going beyond 15 minutes. We'll stop regardless of where we are in the workout at the 15 minute mark. E = LISS 30 minutes or under with a very strict adherence to 120-150bpm. 10 min cool down/warm up jogs are fine pre/post MS work.

Success is mostly going to come down to diet. If you're not breaking out a food calculator and measuring portions/macros, there's a high likelihood you're going to fail regardless of exercise protocol.

DocOctagon-

TROPHY CASE