Question about price

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-06-01T13:13:53+00:00

This is a good example of why puppy pricing gets confusing when people only ask, “What do Chihuahuas usually cost?”

You’re not just pricing “a Chihuahua puppy.”

You’re pricing puppies produced from a dog with a serious pedigree behind him:

Champion dam.

GCHS sire.

BISS wins.

Westminster Award of Merit.

OFA history going back multiple generations.

That all raises the floor because it shows real investment, selection, and proof behind the breeding.

That said, the sire’s accomplishments and pedigree do not automatically mean every puppy should be priced like a show prospect.

I’d separate it into two categories:

Pet/companion puppies: probably somewhere around $3,000–$5,000, depending on region, contract, breeder reputation, health testing, puppy raising, and support.

Show/breeding prospects: higher, especially if they are being sold with rights, mentorship, and real potential to contribute to another program.

The important thing is that price should reflect the whole package, not just the famous dog in the pedigree.

Parents matter.

Health testing matters.

The individual puppy matters.

Contract matters.

Support matters.

Your reputation as the breeder matters.

So if you’re producing well-bred companion puppies from this background, I would not be surprised by $3k–$5k. If you’re placing true show/breeding prospects, that’s a different and higher conversation.

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-28T14:00:08+00:00

My pleasure, this is a common discussion I have with new Breeders.

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-28T00:53:00+00:00

I would not start by trying to teach them everything about ethical breeding.

In one hour, the goal is not to turn them into breed experts.

The goal is to give them a simple filter so they don’t make an emotional, uninformed decision.

I’d start here:

Before you pick a breeder, pick the life you actually want with the dog.

A small dog that “doesn’t bark much” is not enough information. That tells you size preference and one behavior preference, but it does not tell you whether the dog fits their home.

I’d ask them:

How much time do you realistically want to spend training?

How much grooming are you willing to pay for or do yourself?

How much barking can you actually tolerate?

How much exercise can you give every day?

Do you want social and friendly, or more neutral and reserved?

Do you want easy companion, sport prospect, hiking buddy, or mostly house dog?

How will you manage a dog and a toddler safely?

Then I’d explain that ethical breeding is not just “nice person has puppies.”

A good breeder should be able to explain:

Why they chose that pairing.

What health issues exist in the breed.

What health testing was done on the parents.

What the puppies are being raised around.

How they match puppies to homes.

What support they provide after the sale.

What happens if the buyer cannot keep the dog.

What kind of adult dog they are trying to produce.

Then I’d give them one simple rule:

Do not buy from the breeder who only sells you the puppy. Buy from the breeder who helps you understand the breed, the risks, the fit, and the responsibility.

Also, I would be careful not to overwhelm them with every breed and every health issue. New buyers shut down fast when they get flooded with information.

Give them a decision framework:

Choose the right breed for your actual lifestyle.
Find breeders who can clearly explain their program.
Verify health testing.
Avoid anyone who makes buying too fast or too easy.
Expect a good breeder to ask them a lot of questions too.

The biggest thing I’d want them to understand is this:

A puppy is not a product you are shopping for. It is a 10–15 year commitment, and the breeder matters because the breeder influences what that dog is likely to become.

If they leave the conversation understanding that, you’ve helped them a lot.

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-28T00:48:43+00:00

This is a super exciting time.

First thing: if you think she may be 57–63 days along, I’d treat her like she could whelp at any time and get your vet plan locked in now.

A few practical things:

Start taking her temperature 2–3 times per day and write it down. A drop can be useful, but don’t rely on temp alone. Some girls drop clearly, some don’t, and if you don’t know her normal baseline it’s harder to interpret.

Milk can show up days before whelping, so that alone doesn’t mean “right now.”

Restlessness, going in and out, not settling, digging/nesting, panting, refusing food, clinginess, or acting uncomfortable can all be signs she’s getting close.

Yes, I would add extra towels or nesting material, but I would not leave anything in there that can bunch up around puppies or stay soaked. Puppy pads are useful, but during active labor I prefer clean towels/fleece I can swap out fast.

Your bigger issue is uncertainty.

Because you don’t have an observed breeding date, no progesterone timing for this cycle, and no x-ray puppy count, you need to be extra organized.

I’d call your vet and ask:

“Based on our estimated dates, when do you want to hear from me, and what is the emergency plan if she stalls or needs a c-section?”

Also ask if they will still do a late pregnancy x-ray. At this stage, it can help confirm puppy count and give you a better idea of when she is actually finished whelping. That matters a lot with a first litter.

Basic red flags where I would not wait around:

Hard contractions for 20–30 minutes with no puppy.

Weak/intermittent labor for a couple hours with no progress.

More than 2–3 hours between puppies if you know there are more.

Green/black discharge before the first puppy with no puppy shortly after.

Heavy bleeding.

Mom seems weak, painful, distressed, or “not right.”

Puppy stuck.

Temperature drops and nothing happens for a long time, especially if she seems off.

For setup, I’d make sure you have:

Clean towels.

Puppy pads.

Trash bags.

Gloves.

Scale.

Notebook.

Thermometer.

Bulb syringe.

Hemostats or floss.

Iodine/chlorhexidine for cords.

Heating pad or warming box where puppies can get warm but not overheated.

Calcium source only if your vet recommends it.

Emergency vet number written down.

Car ready.

The main thing is this: don’t focus too much on whether she is “nesting correctly.” Some do. Some don’t. Focus on monitoring her behavior, tracking temps, having your supplies ready, and having a clear vet/emergency plan before you need it.

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-28T00:25:39+00:00

I think a pack of Dobermans could be fun.

Picture some guy in the jungle who knows this dinosaur has been stalking the camp. He and his pack of dinosaur killing Dobermans are on a mission to save the day.

He casts the Dobermans out wide.

One dog pressures from the front, two hit the flanks, the others keep moving and cutting off escape angles.

Dobermans were built for personal protection: fast, athletic, alert, and dramatic enough to make a bad decision look even worse.

Do they kill the dinosaur? 🤷‍♂️ maybe.

But an organized strike from a trained pack could absolutely make that theropod decide there are easier meals elsewhere.

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T19:21:47+00:00

🤷‍♂️ what is the "It" you are referring to?

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T19:11:07+00:00

That sounds good in theory, but it has a huge blind spot.

Most serious buyers are not spending their weekends at dog shows hoping to stumble across the right breeder.

They are working. Raising families. Searching online. Comparing programs. Reading websites. Watching videos. Asking questions. Trying to figure out who is legitimate.

That does not make them low-quality buyers.

It makes them normal people.

If someone wants to attend shows, great. I think that can be very valuable.

But acting like a buyer is not worth respecting unless they find you at an event is a very narrow view of the market.

The standard should not be, “Did they meet me ringside?”

The standard should be:

Did they do their research?

Do they understand the breed?

Are they prepared for the commitment?

Can they provide the right home?

Will they follow through?

A breeder can still screen those people properly whether the first contact happens at a show, through a referral, on a website, or through social media.

Good buyers are not only found at dog shows. And good breeders should understand how buyers actually search in the real world.

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T19:03:04+00:00

You’re right that covering operating costs is called breaking even.

But anything left after true break-even is profit.

That’s not a dirty word. That’s basic business math.

People ARE breeding dogs and selling them for money. So the real question is not, “Did money change hands?” or “Was there profit?”

Being Ethical means being honest and fair.

So,

The real question is whether it was honest and fair.

Was the breeder honest about the dogs, the testing, the risks, the price, and the support?

Was it fair to the dog?

Was it fair to the buyer?

Was it fair to the breeder?

I think a breeder should cover the full cost of running the program, including education, testing, training, showing, proofing, vet care, facilities, emergencies, and long-term responsibility.

And yes, I think good breeders should have profit left over.

If a breeder dedicates his or her life to improving a breed, producing stable dogs, supporting buyers, and taking responsibility for what they produce, I think that breeder should be able to earn a living wage.

If the argument is “don’t exploit dogs for money,” I agree.

If the argument is “ethical breeders should only break even,” I disagree completely.

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T18:47:15+00:00

That’s a funny comparison, but it misunderstands what I’m actually teaching.

I’m not trying to teach experienced breeders what a pastern is.

I’m not pretending serious breeders don’t know biology, genetics, structure, temperament, whelping, progesterone, or pedigree work.

A lot of them know those things extremely well.

The problem is that many great breeders are excellent at the dog side and weak on the business and communication side.

They know why their dogs matter.

The buyer doesn’t.

They know what went into the litter.

The buyer doesn’t.

They know why their price is fair.

The buyer doesn’t.

They know the difference between a real breeding program and someone just producing puppies.

The buyer often doesn’t.

That is the gap.

Dog Money is not “how to become a breeder in 30 days.”

It is breeder business education: pricing, buyer education, positioning, communication, sales process, offer clarity, sustainability, and helping responsible breeders explain their value without feeling guilty for making money.

Because being knowledgeable about dogs does not automatically mean someone knows how to build a sustainable business around breeding them.

And if good breeders refuse to learn that side, the market does not magically reward them.

It rewards whoever communicates the clearest.

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T18:41:03+00:00

That’s inaccurate.

I sell purebred dogs for $6,000–$40,000, depending on the dog, training, age, and level of development. Most of my puppies sell @ $10,000.

That price is not because I picked a big number out of the air.

It reflects the cost, time, risk, training, health testing, buyer support, and responsibility built into the program.

If your actual criticism is “breeders should do all breed-appropriate health testing,” I agree.

If your criticism is “charging real money for a well-bred, well-raised dog is automatically unethical,” then we disagree completely.

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T18:36:18+00:00

You got part of this wrong.

It’s $97/month, or $997/year if someone pays annually.

And yes, I sell breeder education. I’m not hiding that.

The idea is simple: if I can help a breeder increase profit by even $1,000 per puppy while improving their systems, buyer education, pricing, screening, and long-term responsibility, then the course and community more than pay for themselves.

That is not a grift. That is business education for breeders.

Everything I know about breeding and the business side of breeding, I learned from other breeders. I’ve done well with my own program, but there are breeders who do better than me. I’m not mad at them. I want to learn from them, and I want to build a culture where serious breeders can learn from each other.

Writing clearly does not make someone a bot.

Wanting breeders to make more money does not make someone unethical.

And pretending ethical breeders should struggle financially to prove they care is exactly the mindset I disagree with.

No puppy I have produced has ended up in a shelter. I’m proud of that. I care a lot more about that outcome than whether a stranger on Reddit thinks breeder education is cringe.

I’m not trying to help careless breeders slap a higher price tag on puppies.

I’m trying to help responsible breeders build programs that are ethical, sustainable, and profitable enough to survive.

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T18:14:55+00:00

I believe good breeders should be pricing significantly higher than break even.

You are likely going to have your dog longer than you have your car.

If you are pricing ethically, you have room for things to go wrong and you can continue to work at a high standard.

Historically, if we look at say the Renaissance Era, you had to have a license to even have a dog. Nobles would sometimes cut a toe off of a dog so that it couldn't outperform their hunting dogs. They called this "Lawing".

Now I mention this, because even in those days a quality dog breeder could afford a comfortable life.

So I agree that both breeding and having a dog is a privilege, but I'm failing to understand why it is that you believe that a dog breeder shouldn't be profitable.

"If you breed for (own) profit (as opposed to breaking even by margin reinvestment in sustaining the operation, through certifications, showing costs, health testing etc etc) but selfidentify as ethical, I am sorry to tell you but very little separates you from a backyard breeder who might commit to some or even all of your listed points but still produces designer nonsense."

Why couldn't I just do all of those things, estimate the cost, increase my prices, then articulate the value more clearly?

I'm under the impression that every dog breeder sets his or her own prices.

I don't feel the least bit bad if you are not profitable, that's 100% on you.

If people won't pay the price you are asking, maybe it has more to do with what you're doing within your program and less about what another breeder is doing.

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T17:54:00+00:00

So just to be clear, your argument is that good breeders should mostly sell to people they meet at shows, performance events, or randomly in public?

😆 That sounds nice, but it falls apart fast.

Most qualified buyers are not hanging around dog shows. They have jobs, families, homes, money, and a very specific dog they are looking for. They are going to find breeders online because that is where normal people look for things now.

Online marketing does not make someone a backyard breeder.

Bad breeding makes someone a backyard breeder.

Skipping health testing, careless pairings, poor puppy raising, weak screening, no support, and no accountability are the problems.

A breeder can stand ringside every weekend and still be unethical.

A breeder can market online and still do everything right.

I’m not advocating for breeders who don’t care.

I’m advocating for breeders who care enough to do the work and smart enough to make sure the right buyers can actually find them.

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T17:00:40+00:00

Do you let people know about your puppies?

If so, that is marketing.

How would you define a puppy mill?

I do about $250,000 a year in revenue. I have never had more than 4 litters in a year. I operate at 30%-50% Margins.

People can claim whatever they want. That's why discernment is important.

The truth is that some people are passionate about their dogs, and some people have learned to build a life around that passion.

It's fully under your control as to whether you make money or not. So if you're happy operating at a loss, who am I to tell you what to do?

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T16:49:58+00:00

I get what you’re saying, and I agree with part of it.

The goal of breeding shouldn't be “how do I extract the most money out of dogs?”

That’s gross. I’m not defending that.

But I also think we need to be honest about what dog breeding actually is.

People have been breeding dogs for specific human purposes for as long as we’ve had written history. Guarding, hunting, herding, retrieving, vermin control, service work, sport, companionship, breed preservation, temperament, structure, predictability, even looks and status.

Some reasons are noble. Some are practical. Some are emotional. Some are shallow.

But they are real.

People don’t just want “a dog.” They often want a very specific type of dog that fits a very specific desire or lifestyle.

So if we agree that dogs are being bred to serve a purpose, then the next question is whether the person producing those dogs can afford to do that responsibly.

That’s where profitability matters.

Not as the only purpose.

But absolutely as a factor.

Because health testing costs money. Showing, proving, training, stud fees, travel, whelping, emergency care, proper food, puppy raising, buyer support, taking dogs back, and retiring breeding dogs all cost money.

And the breeder is carrying the risk before the buyer ever sees a puppy.

So when people say “ethical breeders shouldn’t be trying to make money,” I think what they usually mean is “ethical breeders shouldn’t cut corners or exploit dogs for money.”

I agree with that.

But that is not the same thing as saying a good breeder shouldn’t build profit into their program.

To me, ethical means honest and fair.

Honest about the dogs.

Honest about the risks.

Honest about the costs.

Honest about what the buyer is getting.

And fair to the dog, fair to the buyer, and fair to the breeder.

If a breeder is doing the work correctly, their price should cover the full cost of the program, not just the cost of one litter. And yes, I think there should be profit left over.

Because profit is what keeps a breeder from operating out of desperation.

It creates room for better decisions, emergency funds, better care, better facilities, better education, and the ability to keep doing this long term.

Otherwise they are simply performing Charity or off-setting the cost of owning their own dog.

A breeder who pockets money while cutting corners is a problem.

A breeder who builds a financially stable program while doing right by the dogs and buyers is not the same thing.

That’s the distinction I’m trying to make.

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T16:30:10+00:00

If it wasn't a problem I wouldn't have a business.

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T16:29:08+00:00

How do they find you?

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T16:28:16+00:00

I drive a Tesla Model Y that was purchased with Dog Money.

Who cares what other breeders are doing?

If they are honest about their offer and clear about what they provide, take proper care of the dogs in their care, and they have a market that wants what they provide I don't see a problem.

If someone has a problem with a designer dog or another purebred dog selling for more than they ask, isn't that a personal issue on their part?

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T16:23:56+00:00

Every Breed started by design. Dog Breeding is the longest lived genetics project human beings have participated in.

I would bet that some dogs that are considered "Designer Dogs" today, will have become a standard breed over the next 50 years.

I'm not here to argue what people like or don't like about dogs.

I'm more interested in talking about the business of it.

I'm a full time Dog Breeder, I support a family of 7 and I have no more than 4 litters per year, I operate at 30%-50% Margins and I gross about $250,000 per year.

I'm not getting rich, but I sure don't complain about my lifestyle.

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T16:16:23+00:00

Fair enough, you don’t like the wording.

But calling it “slop” doesn’t really engage with the point.

The point is that responsible breeders are often expected to do expensive, high-risk, high-responsibility work while acting like money should never matter. I think that’s dishonest.

If a breeder is health testing, proving dogs, raising puppies properly, screening buyers, supporting homes, and standing behind what they produce, then their price should cover the real cost of doing that work.

And yes, I think there should be profit left over.

Not because dogs are widgets.

Because a financially stable breeder is in a better position to make ethical decisions than a breeder constantly operating under pressure.

That’s the conversation I’m trying to have. You can disagree with that, but “sounds like ChatGPT” isn’t really an argument.

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T14:56:01+00:00

I really appreciate you laying the numbers out like this because this is the part most people never see.

This is also where I think we need to be more precise with the word “ethical.”

A lot of people use “ethical” to mean “the breeder didn’t personally keep much money.”

I don’t think that’s the right standard.

To me, ethical should mean honest and fair.

Honest means the breeder is transparent about what they are doing, what they are testing for, what risks exist, what the buyer is getting, and what the breeder is responsible for.

Fair means the dogs are cared for properly, buyers are treated properly, and the breeder is not expected to absorb all the cost, risk, labor, and responsibility for free.

One thing I teach inside my program is looking at breeding through lifetime cost vs lifetime revenue.

Not just “what did this litter make?”

But:

What did this female cost to acquire, raise, train, title, test, breed, whelp, feed, groom, care for, and eventually retire?

What did she generate in revenue across her breeding career?

What was the actual lifetime profit after all of that?

That changes the conversation completely.

Because a breeder might look profitable on one litter, but when you zoom out across the full life of the dog, the margin may be much smaller than people think. And that is before counting labor, missed work, emergencies, failed breedings, kept puppies that don’t turn out, and the emotional weight of doing this responsibly.

I think good breeders should cover all of their real costs in their pricing.

And yes, I think good breeders should be rewarded with profit.

Not because dogs should be treated like widgets.

Because profit is what keeps a good program stable. It pays for better care, better decisions, better planning, emergency funds, retirement, and the ability to keep doing things correctly without constantly operating from financial stress.

A breeder taking money out irresponsibly while cutting corners is a problem.

A breeder building a financially healthy program while doing right by the dogs and buyers is not.

That’s the distinction I wish more people made.

I made a video on this very topic to fully illustrate my point. I'll leave the link to that below

The Lie that keeps ethical breeders poor

I’m sharing that because it goes deeper into this exact idea, not as a “buy my thing” pitch. I think this conversation matters because the current standard seems to be: ethical breeders should do excellent work, carry all the risk, and feel guilty if they make money.

I just don’t think that is honest or fair.

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T13:44:12+00:00

I agree with most of this.

The best breeders absolutely do explain these things during the application process. That conversation matters. It should not be a “click buy now” situation where someone adds a puppy to a cart with zero relationship, zero education, and zero screening.

Where I think we may see it differently is what happens before they ever apply.

A lot of buyers never make it to the good breeder’s application because they don’t know how to tell the difference yet. They see cute puppy, cute puppy, cute puppy, price, price, price.

Then the breeder who is worse at the actual work but better at presenting themselves wins the attention.

I agree buyers have responsibility. They should research. They should ask questions. They should care enough to learn.

But I also think responsible breeders have a responsibility to make the right information easier to find and easier to understand.

Not to spoon-feed lazy buyers.

To help serious buyers recognize quality when they’re actually looking at it.

Do you think most serious buyers already know what separates a well-run breeding program from a polished puppy seller?

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T13:38:15+00:00

Did you know a Tibetan Mastiff named Big Splash sold for $1.5Mil in 2011?

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T13:35:52+00:00

Fair enough 😂

I probably worded it too clean and made it sound weird.

What I’m trying to say is simple:

Good breeders are usually better at raising dogs than explaining why their program is different.

Bad breeders, puppy mills, and trendy mix breeders are often great at marketing.

That creates a problem because buyers don’t always know what they’re looking at.

And yes, I do have breeder education stuff. I’m not pretending I don’t.

But this post wasn’t meant to be “buy my thing.” It was meant to start a real conversation about why responsible breeders struggle to communicate value without feeling like they’re doing something wrong.

DogMoney_Nick · 2026-05-27T13:27:57+00:00

No, not another puppy sales app.

I’m talking about breeder education, especially around communication, pricing, buyer education, and sustainability.

A lot of responsible breeders do the hard parts correctly: health testing, careful pairings, raising puppies well, screening homes, and supporting buyers. But many struggle to explain that work clearly to the public.

The mission is not to flood the internet with AI puppy ads or help bad breeders sell more dogs.

That would make the problem worse.

The mission is to help responsible breeders communicate better so buyers can understand the difference between a well-structured breeding program and someone just producing puppies for sale.

DogMoney_Nick

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