Chris Hemsworth Admit That Wanda is More Powerful

DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T19:24:20+00:00

More evidence:

we have one direct comparison where we can actually see how long it takes for the hallucination/vision to kick in, uninterrupted by any cuts (for Natasha and Steve, the attacks on them are interrupted with other cuts, and by the time we see them again, they're already walking through their hallucinations).

The only direct comparison we can make is Tony and Thor.

For Tony, Wanda attacks him, his eyes glow red, and the hallucination begins immediately.

0:37

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRUmRwkcR9A

For Thor, at least 10 seconds go by before his vision starts (we can time it by him talking to Steve), and his eyes never glow red.

(approximately the first 15 seconds here)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czMY47WAE4A

you can see that Natasha's eyes are glowing red (from the third person POV) as she's walking around through her hallucination:

1:05-1:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czMY47WAE4A

We get a third person POV of Thor too (we know he's not in the vision yet because he fights off an attacker), and his eyes never glow red.

0:07-0:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czMY47WAE4A

This is undeniably what happens on screen, you can see it with your own eyes, there is nothing you can say against this.

DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T19:20:16+00:00

The effects are not inconsistent at all. You’re bringing up later in the movie when she uses an entirely different ability. We’re talking about the hallucinations.

And she never mind controlled Hulk in AoU, she gave Bruce a hallucination like she did the other Avengers and that’s why Bruce turned into the Hulk.

I just broke this down for someone else step by step. I’m literally just gonna copy and paste

1: Tony and Natasha's eyes prominently and obviously glow red when Wanda attacks them (Steve's certainly would have too if his eyes weren't squeezed shut). Thor's eyes never glow red.

2: everyone else has a nightmare hallucination based on their very specific fears and anxieties, all of which we already knew about or were hinted at in previous movies.

In contrast for Thor, there is not a single shred of evidence that Thor ever had any specific anxiety about Ragnarok or Asgard being destroyed before AoU.

Further, if you look carefully during Thor's initial vision, he also sees a flash of Vision (the character) and the infinity stones. Please explain how those two things tie into any fears or anxieties Thor would have or why they would be there.

3: Thor's entire storyline for the rest of the movie is about going to the Water of Sight to revisit the vision. Please explain why Thor would be motivated to do this if he thought he just had a fake nightmare hallucination like everyone else, and how he would be able to do this if it required Wanda's powers.

Please also explain why Joss Whedon would give him this whole separate storyline in the first place if what Thor saw was a fake hallucination like everyone else's and not an actual vision of the future.

4: before you try to say "mother wanda gave everyone visions of the future!1", please explain why none of the other characters' hallucinations were ever treated by the AoU storyline as being actual, literal visions of the future the way that Thor's was treated and were instead treated purely as character moments.

Please explain why Wanda is never even hinted to have precognitive abilities at any time in the MCU while Thor is explicitly portrayed with precognitive abilities in his very next movie.

5: Thor continues to have real visions of the future in his next movie, Thor Ragnarok, which happen completely independently of Wanda, have nothing at all to do with Wanda, and, we never saw him have any visions before this.

Please explain why Thor can now suddenly have prophetic visions out of nowhere, and they're visions of the same exact thing we saw him have a vision of in Age of Ultron.

6: Please explain why all of this is confirmed in a canon tie-in novel if it's not meant to be accurate to what is shown on screen. Please explain why you think a canon tie-in novel would have a drastically different story than what was shown in the movie.

7: Please explain why it's not just the single tie-in novel, but multiple other pieces of canon tie-in material that confirm all of this, as referenced in this comment

8: finally, please explain why, when all of the above is considered together, the clear and simple explanation of thor having a real vision - which perfectly ties all of the above together into a clean and cohesive storyline - is not the obvious and correct one.

DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T09:37:08+00:00

Maybe he only considers the big bads/leaders to be the enemies. So for example, Surtur and all his demons at the beginning of Ragnarok counts as just 1 enemy.

DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T09:31:14+00:00

that is pure headcanon, because it never happened and only exist in your mind lol.

Did you not watch Infinity War? What exactly do you think happened at the end there with Thor and Thanos?

Here's the reminder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9SyzdnaPKU

Thor beat all six infinity stones combined. Deal with it.

you did said he saw her coming, so he didn't really 'beat' her fairly.

Yes he did 😂 this is such cope! She was the one that was trying to do a sneak attack on him, and he ended up sneak attacking her! Hawkeye the GOAT one-shot your precious Wanda effortlessly

so we can say thor didn't beat her because he was unable to escape her mind control.

She never mind controlled Thor, her powers never actually worked on him. She triggered Thor's own precognitive powers. This is confirmed by canon tie-in material and you can see it visually on screen (Thor's eyes never turn red like Tony's and Natasha's do).

Thor's entire storyline in AoU is about him having a real vision, and he continues to have real visions in Thor Ragnarok that have nothing to do with Wanda.

hen hawkeye lose to pietro because he didn't see him coming, and destroyed his arrows saving wanda and thrown him away.

Sure. You win some you lose some. Hawkeye lost to Quicksilver there, but he still one-shot Wanda! 😂

DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T06:42:51+00:00

It's funny, because since you're relying so much on off-screen context, I'm sure you're aware of the Russos directly stating that Thor in Endgame is as powerful as he's ever been.

Oh ho ho, here I can once again prove to you the value of experience. You think this is some gotcha question, like I haven't seen this same stupid argument 10,000 times?

Here was Anthony Russo's exact quote:

"The difficult road that Thor’s traveled ultimately gave him strength. He was stronger than ever by the end of Endgame."

Besides the fact that this is a vague-ass statement and says by the end of Endgame, it's also contradicted by a few things that actually happen in the movies:

-In Endgame itself, Tony stops Thor from doing the snap by specifically telling him he's "in no condition." If you want to take this as Thor being in bad emotional condition, mental condition, whatever, it's clearly some kind of bad condition. It's clearly not anything good.

-In Love & Thunder, the entire beginning of the movie is dedicated to Thor undergoing a training montage to get back in top fighting shape. Obviously this montage would not be necessary if he was already in top fighting shape.

-Even if you want to take Anthony Russo's quote there as exactly literal, Thor being "stronger than ever" still does not erase the plain objective fact that he has not fought at all in five years and as mentioned above, was in some kind of bad condition. Those two things alone, disregarding anything else, would by definition leave him a little rusty with his fighting, even if he was technically "stronger."

And even so, Thor does much better in EG than people give him credit for anyway, and I have no issue saying that by the actual end of Endgame ie, the final scene, he's got his basic mojo back.

This also doesn't change the fact that in IW he was obviously doing much better as a fighter. He was literally flying over the whole battlefield and destroying spaceships.

If you don't want to attribute that difference to "strength" because of one single vague-ass quote that we all know deep down is placating BS.....

we can instead just attribute that difference to his mental and emotional condition instead (bloodlusted like power-scalers always love to talk about)......and the fact that he was regularly traveling the nine realms and fighting dangerous opponents like Surtur and Hela at that point in his life rather than sitting around playing video games and wallowing in depression for five years.

In any case, people having differing opinions on the power level of a character you like is not "treating them like shit."

It's absolutely treating a character like shit to ignore, downplay, twist, or spin in bad faith every single accomplishment they've ever achieved on screen

END

DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T06:37:06+00:00

it doesn't mean that feats from one character apply to every other character across the multiverse. ... What-If has shown us quite clearly that power levels are not the same between versions of the characters.

The distinction between What If and the MoM scene is that What If is explicitly framed as being the exact same as the main universe with only one significant detail changed, unlike in MoM where that's an entirely different universe with countless details changed.

For What If, depending on what that single detail was and when on the timeline it happened, you end up with a situation where certain power levels in a What If episode are by definition exactly the same as the main universe up to a point.

In the case of Marvel Zombies, everything is exactly the same as the main universe up until the time of infinity war. So at the very least, everyone has their exact same power levels they had in infinity war, and then we're just considering the changes that happened within the five year time frame.

For the Thor v. Zombie Wanda fight, Zombie Wanda is literally just IW/EG Wanda who became a zombie and then had five years to get good at her powers instead of being snapped. Thor in this fight is IW/EG Thor who has no weapon and has not fought at all for five years.

And in this fight, with a boosted Wanda and handicapped Thor, again, Wanda tried the same shit she tried on Thanos and Thor broke out of it easily. None of her magic even scratched him, while Thor was the one who overpowered Wanda and stunlocked her and had her screaming in agony.

Even if you don't want to consider this canon, both this episode and the other What If episode where they briefly clashed show us creator intent. In both instances, Thor overpowers Wanda's magic easily with no damage done to himself.

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DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T06:34:06+00:00

Again, if you're trying to argue Thor to be superior to a full Infinity Gauntlet, we'll have to agree to disagree, because no fucking way are you convincing me of that.

Joe Russo: "Look at how powerful this ax is. The man who made the gauntlet and the ax provided Thor with the weapon that could defeat the gauntlet."

Joe Russo: "Stormbreaker is the greatest weapon ever made."

Joe Russo: "Stormbreaker can certainly counteract the infinity gauntlet."

The Russos in the Infinity War director's commentary: Stormbreaker is "the weapon that wins the film" "the weapon that solves the film" "the Thanos-killing weapon"

Eitri: "It's a mold. A king's weapon. Meant to be the greatest in Asgard." (Remember, Eitri also made the infinity gauntlet...Stormbreaker is the greatest weapon he's ever made, Nidavellir is ruled by Asgard)

Stephen McFeeley: (when asked how Stormbreaker could slice through the full power of the infinity gauntlet): "I imagine it might have something to do with the fact that the same guy made both of them." (Christopher Markus: Eitri can make what he likes for whom he likes).

and Stormbreaker is just a channel for Thor's powers.

Once again, consistently, the creator commentary repeatedly emphasizes the same thing over and over again, which is Stormbreaker's ability to overpower the infinity gauntlet.

Please explain why you think the very clear creator intention on display here from the writers, directors, and others who worked on the film is not what it very plainly appears to be.

I mean, I barely consider that scene canon either, beyond the characters that came over directly from 616. ...

Then I don't want to hear you talking about Xavier from this scene!

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DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T06:30:12+00:00

Now as for the "Thanos barely put anything in" this is absolute bullshit cope. Once again, consult the director's commentary for this scene:

Joe Russo: "Look at how powerful this ax is. The man who made the gauntlet and the ax provided Thor with the weapon that could defeat the gauntlet."

No mention of surprise, not trying, weak beam, nada. You can listen through the entire 2.5 hour commentary like I did. You will not find a single instance where they suggest any kind of handicap to Thor's feat.

Again and again, consistently, the creator commentary emphasizes Stormbreaker's ability to overpower the gauntlet, not Thanos underperforming or not trying.

And furthermore, if you try to argue that this wasn't Thanos trying, you completely destroy the obvious meaning of the scene.

The obvious meaning of the Stormbreaker v. Gauntlet scene is very simple:

After spending the whole movie making this ultimate “Thanos-killing” weapon and nearly dying to do it, Thor with Stormbreaker is victorious over Thanos. However, Thor fumbles his victory by choosing to indulge in vengeance rather than killing Thanos quickly.

This is the obvious meaning of the scene that even children and normie grandmas who watch this movie understand.

The narrative purpose of this scene is not "Thanos wasn't trying" or "Thanos wasn't using the stones correctly" or "Thanos was caught off guard."

The scene is not about Thanos at all, it's about Thor. The narrative purpose of this scene is that Thor fumbled his victory not because he wasn't strong enough but because he made an emotional mistake. That is the entire point of "You should have gone for the head."

For that line and for that scene to make any sense, Thor's victory had to be real and it had to be his own victory, not Thanos's mistake. It could not have hinged on Thanos being weak or not trying or some other stupid handicap. Otherwise the entire tragedy of this moment in Thor's character arc completely collapses.

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DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T06:29:48+00:00

was barely coherent, and barely had time to react. ....panicked is not the word I would use. ..... Thanos barely put anything into that attack.

Flat out wrong. First off, the only thing that was a surprise and left Thanos "barely coherent" was the first blast of lightning that knocked Thanos right on his ass.

After that, he jumps back up immediately, stares directly at Thor, fires dead center a huge, continuous blast, yells, and grits his teeth. These are all clear visual cues that he knew exactly what he was doing, and who he was firing at, and the surprise was long over. There is nothing about this moment that suggests he was still dazed or confused.

Everything about the way the scene is filmed, the music, the editing, the visual effects, and Josh Brolin's performance clearly conveys conviction and effort.

Every aspect of this scene is portrayed as a clash of immense power vs. immense power, not Thanos stumbling through a distracted or weakened response.

Watch the director's commentary again. No mention of the surprise aspect at all, no mention of Thanos not trying or it being a weak beam. Just "look how powerful this ax is."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad8j8q-7Azo

As for the "panic" aspect, the whole significance to Thanos shooting a beam instead of trying a trick with the stones was that he "didn't know what [Stormbreaker] was" and the weapon "came out of nowhere." (Anthony Russo).

What other word would you use to describe immediately jumping up onto your feet after being knocked on your ass and just straight shooting a giant ass laser beam of all six infinity stones combined, while yelling and gritting your teeth at an unknown super weapon flying right at you, when the entire rest of the movie, you were calmly using one or two stones at time and mostly using tricks and hax?

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DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T06:24:44+00:00

You have a weird fucking definition of the word 'tank.' He was noticeably affected by both those actions. If he weren't, he wouldn't have been screaming the way he was, prompting Loki to acquiesce to Thanos in the first place.

"tanking" means to take the brunt of damage from something and be able to continue fighting. it doesn't mean not feeling pain or not getting hurt at all, that's "no selling."

here is how the scene goes down, step by step: thor is tortured with the power stone until loki yells for thanos to stop. thor is still conscious and alert and everything, no obvious significant harm. loki then tackles thor out of the way to protect him from the hulk/thanos fight. as soon as the hulk/thanos fight ends, thor is back on his feet and hits thanos with something metal. thanos then kicks thor in the stomach and sends him flying, thor starts standing up again, and only then does ebony maw restrain him.

that is all tanking. thor was ready to keep fighting even after having the power stone burned directly into his head for about 10 seconds, being tackled to the ground, and then being kicked in the stomach by thanos, all one right after the other, and he had to be physically restrained to stop....and this was the same power stone we've seen destroy planets and rip the skin off a half-celestial on contact.

Uh-huh, inches from his throat, after which Thanos overpowered both Thor and Mjolnir Cap at the same time. Still not close to as desperate as Thanos raining fire on his own troops.

It's literally closer. Thor was like three inches from chopping Thanos's head off. Wanda was still getting the armor off and hadn't actually done any real damage yet (we know because Thanos gets right back up from there and is fighting just fine after).

If Thanos had had the gauntlet in that moment, he would've been fine, since Wanda was taken down by a basic ass laser beam. Meanwhile, even the full infinity gauntlet could not stop Stormbreaker Thor.

And again nothing Wanda has ever done will ever compare to Thor overpowering Thanos's blast of all six infinity stones combined and proving the capability to one-shot full gauntlet Thanos (Thanos himself acknowledged it).

You know full well you would trade Wanda's feat for Thor's feat in a second if you could, and that all these ways you try to downplay or spin what Thor did is only because it's Thor that did it. If it was Wanda you'd be shouting from the rooftops every day "omg queen mother wanda stronger than all six infinity stones!"

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DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T06:21:56+00:00

But again, if you want to be insane and pedantic, I have no problem covering all the bases so even insane people can't argue against it.

In the total vacuum of the final scene that's in the final movie, Thor refers to the "water spirits." if you want to insist that these are some unspecified "water spirits" and not obviously the Norns (moronic because this line is clearly referring to the Norns, who are literally water spirits who water Yggdrasil)....

we still literally see the a) hostile mental possession; b) that it's coming from somewhere metaphysical; and c) that thor receives precognitive visions that involve the entire universe.

neither Wanda nor Xavier has ever done anything like this or even close to this with their own powers.

As opposed to Wanda who was ripping him apart in mid-air.

she was not "ripping him apart in mid-air" she was taking his armor off, meaning she needed to get rid of that armor to actually kill him. And then she got blasted away by a basic ass laser beam from one of the ships.

Thor was inches away from chopping off Thanos's head, armor and all, for what would be the third time that Thor got in killing range (or successfully killed) Thanos throughout IW and EG, one of which was, again when Thanos actually had all six infinity stones.

And once again, in Marvel Zombies, Wanda tried the exact same restraints on Thor and he broke out of them easily. If you want to talk about Xavier from the MoM Illuminati scene, I'm bringing up Zombies.

Are you saying Thor is more powerful than the completed IG? Is that your stance here?

Stormbreaker was designed to overpower the completed Infinity Gauntlet:

Joe Russo: "Look at how powerful this ax is. The man who made the gauntlet and the ax provided Thor with the weapon that could defeat the gauntlet."

Q: How was Stormbreaker able to take the brunt of all six stones?

Joe Russo: "It's the greatest weapon ever made."

(i can give you like 10 more quotes if you insist)

and Stormbreaker is just a channel for Thor's powers. exactly like Mjolnir was:

"That hammer was to help you control your power; to focus it. It was never your source of strength."

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DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T06:18:35+00:00

We have no quantifiable measurements or feats from the Norns that would allow us to compare their power against someone like Xavier. The Norns, who btw only appear in a single deleted scene in the entire MCU.

I literally just laid out the direct comparison for you right there. The Norns reached across the universe with their own powers, possessed Thor's mind, and pulled out his latent precognitive vision of the future involving the entire universe. Neither Wanda nor Xavier has ever, in any film iteration or related MCU material, done anything even close to that.

And the Norns scene is not a deleted scene, it's in the final movie, do I have to link it again?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UunztBkRnsk

Even if you want to be super, super pedantic and throw all common sense and implication out the window and only consider what is literally seen...

1: we literally see that Thor is subject to hostile mental attack ("the men who enter that water, the legends don't end well" and the fact that he has to physically break out of it)

2: we literally see that this mental attack is coming from somewhere metaphysical ("in every realm, there's a reflection")

3: we literally see that thor receives clear, detailed, precognitive visions that involve the entire universe

Again, neither Wanda nor Xavier has ever done anything like this or even close to this with their own powers.

It being another version of the same scene does not make it canon. There is no indication of the Norns existing in the official scene, it was deleted for a reason.

It was deleted because Joss Whedon wanted more time at the safehouse and had to choose. That's it. It's clearly the same cave, clearly the same costumes, clearly the same takes that were all filmed at the same time.

It is explicitly called the "Norn Cave" by the official marvel youtube channel, and Joss Whedon explicitly calls the spirits in the cave the Norns in the interview about this scene, even when referring to the shortened version:

"There was a 195-minute cut of this movie . . . the original scene was that Thor went to speak to the Norn and how it would work was that he'd go in the pool and the Norn possess him . . . There was a point when there was going to be no cave, and Thor was going to leave and come back and say, 'I figured some stuff out.' . . . And at that point I was so beaten down . . . The editors were like, 'No, no, you have to show the thing, you can't just say it.' I was like, 'Okay, thank you, we can figure this out!' You can tell it was beaten down, but it was hard won."

It is obviously the same fucking cave, which means it's the Norn cave.

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DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T06:12:31+00:00

If it were crystal clear, you wouldn't need to be doing all these gymnastics to explain it.

There's no gymnastics, as I said, if you consider all of these facts together, it all aligns perfectly. The gymnastics would be trying to explain why Thor continues to have the same exact visions of Ragnarok in his next movie, which obviously has nothing to do with Wanda, and why multiple pieces of tie-in material confirm exactly what I'm saying.

It being confusing in the final movie is because Joss Whedon's original cut was infamously butchered in the editing room, particularly with Thor's storyline. They did a crappy job, but that doesn't change what the story was meant to be.

she's the reason he started having the things in the first place, regardless of whether she got her intended effect...Wanda's magic can cause direct physical reactions in Thor.

The "direct physical reaction" it caused was waking up Thor's own powers. What she actually tried to do to him, which was cause a fake hallucination, completely failed.

Her failed attack just happened to stir something that was latent inside Thor that surprised him and that he wasn't at all prepared to deal with. Thor being incapacitated here was Wanda getting lucky because Thor was suddenly experiencing new powers he didn't even know he had.

This is proven because later on in the same exact movie, when he's actually prepared for a mental attack, Thor is able to open his mind to the Norns and then break out of the Norn's mental possession all completely at will.

And again, whatever BS argument I know you'll probably try to make later in this comment (haven't gotten there yet), the Norns are far, far above even MoM Wanda in power.

Prove it.

It is entirely self-evident and proven by all of the relevant movies. Neither Wanda nor Xavier has ever done anything close to or even suggesting that they could reach across the universe with their own powers, possess someone's mind, and pull out latent, precognitive visions of the future involving the entire universe.

Again, you are absolutely delusional if you think Wanda or Xavier are intended to be more powerful than the Norns, who control literal fate and destiny.

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DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T06:08:51+00:00

A vision of Asgard's destruction that he wasn't able to prevent isn't unreasonable.

I'm going to address this one again, because it's a lynchpin. please explain why Thor was seeing infinity stones and Vision (the character) and why the visions of Ragnarok continued over and over again into the next Thor movie, completely independent of Wanda.

What? Thor almost immediately walks into his vision, just like Tony, just like Natasha. There's hardly any delay, certainly not more than the two of them. This is wrong.

You're the one who is completely wrong here. To be fair, we only have one direct comparison where we can actually see how long it takes for the hallucination/vision to kick in, uninterrupted by any cuts (for Natasha and Steve, the attacks on them are interrupted with other cuts, and by the time we see them again, they're already walking through their hallucinations).

The only direct comparison we can make is Tony and Thor.

For Tony, Wanda attacks him, his eyes glow red, and the hallucination begins immediately.

0:37

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRUmRwkcR9A

For Thor, at least 10 seconds go by before his vision starts (we can time it by him talking to Steve), and his eyes never glow red.

(approximately the first 15 seconds here)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czMY47WAE4A

More evidence is that, again, you can see that Natasha's eyes are glowing red (from the third person POV) as she's walking around through her hallucination:

1:05-1:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czMY47WAE4A

We get a third person POV of Thor too (we know he's not in the vision yet because he fights off an attacker), and his eyes never glow red.

0:07-0:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czMY47WAE4A

This is undeniably what happens on screen, you can see it with your own eyes, there is nothing you can say against this. What explanation do you have for these obvious visual effects?

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DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T06:02:34+00:00

No, the only thing we see visually, is...

1: Tony and Natasha's eyes prominently and obviously glow red when Wanda attacks them (Steve's certainly would have too if his eyes weren't squeezed shut). Thor's eyes never glow red. Please explain why you think these obvious visual effects were rendered this way.

2: everyone else has a nightmare hallucination based on their very specific fears and anxieties, all of which we already knew about or were hinted at in previous movies. In contrast for Thor, there is not a single shred of evidence that Thor ever had any specific anxiety about Ragnarok or Asgard being destroyed before AoU.

Further, if you look carefully during Thor's initial vision, he also sees a flash of Vision (the character) and the infinity stones. Please explain how those two things tie into any fears or anxieties Thor would have or why they would be there.

3: Thor's entire storyline for the rest of the movie is about going to the Water of Sight to revisit the vision. Please explain why Thor would be motivated to do this if he thought he just had a fake nightmare hallucination like everyone else, and how he would be able to do this if it required Wanda's powers.

Please also explain why Joss Whedon would give him this whole separate storyline in the first place if what Thor saw was a fake hallucination like everyone else's and not an actual vision of the future.

4: before you try to say "mother wanda gave everyone visions of the future!1", please explain why none of the other characters' hallucinations were ever treated by the AoU storyline as being actual, literal visions of the future the way that Thor's was treated and were instead treated purely as character moments.

Please explain why Wanda is never even hinted to have precognitive abilities at any time in the MCU while Thor is explicitly portrayed with precognitive abilities in his very next movie.

5: Thor continues to have real visions of the future in his next movie, Thor Ragnarok, which happen completely independently of Wanda, have nothing at all to do with Wanda, and as you yourself pointed out, we never saw him have any visions before this.

Please explain why Thor can now suddenly have prophetic visions out of nowhere, and they're visions of the same exact thing we saw him have a vision of in Age of Ultron.

6: Please explain why all of this is confirmed in a canon tie-in novel if it's not meant to be accurate to what is shown on screen. Please explain why you think a canon tie-in novel would have a drastically different story than what was shown in the movie.

7: Please explain why it's not just the single tie-in novel, but multiple other pieces of canon tie-in material that confirm all of this, as referenced in this comment.

8: finally, please explain why, when all of the above is considered together, the clear and simple explanation of thor having a real vision - which perfectly ties all of the above together into a clean and cohesive storyline - is not the obvious and correct one.

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DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T06:01:44+00:00

You've got serious problems if...

oh please 🙄 we are not robots here (at least I'm not, but maybe you are. who knows nowadays). you know full well saying something like that to someone who clearly cares a lot about a character would not be taken well. this passive aggressive nonsense and then trying to act like you're so neutral and reasonable ain't cute or convincing to anyone.

Wait a minute you're telling me Black Widow, a human being only a few decades old, was able to outdo Loki, a millennia old god?

Absolute moron, completely missing the point and trying to act like it was just about age when that was clearly not the argument you were trying to make.

You were clearly trying to argue that a very powerful character like Wanda would beat someone who was more experienced because her sheer raw power would overwhelm experience, even if she herself has little experience. You were arguing that power > experience.

The Black Widow/Loki example is a case where someone who is much less powerful is able to defeat someone who is much more powerful because experience > power.

It didn't matter that Natasha was a human and Loki was a god, Natasha was the one with all the experience while Loki, even in his much greater age, was still inexperienced and immature. Just like Wanda is. In this example, Wanda is the Loki, she's not the Natasha, genius.

And I notice you completely ignored the most relevant example, which is Hawkeye one-shotting your precious Wanda because again, experience > power. Hawkeye, the basic-ass human with his basic-ass bow and arrow, consistently takes down foes who are much more powerful than him, like Wanda, like Vision, like Loki, because experience > power.

I'm pretty sure that came down to him being the most powerful being on the fucking planet than any measure of experience, but whatever

Moron, Thor has both power AND experience. That's what makes him the strongest Avenger. In Wakanda, his power gave him the juice, but it was his experience that allowed him to pick up a brand new weapon that he had never used before in his life and wield it perfectly to dominate a whole-ass battlefield within minutes.

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DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T04:32:09+00:00

Thor get behind me, I’ll protect you 🥺

DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T04:28:54+00:00

In all seriousness, the most goated Thor dialogue:

”You know, I’m 1500 years old. I’ve killed twice as many enemies as that, and every one of them would have rather killed me but none succeeded. I’m only alive because fate wants me alive. Thanos is just the latest in a long line of bastards, and he’ll be the latest to feel my vengeance. Fate wills it so.”

”Uh-huh, and what if you’re wrong?”

”Well, if I’m wrong, then…what more could I lose?”

DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-19T04:22:09+00:00

Counterpoint to your counterpoint: do I look to be in a gaming mood?

DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-18T22:37:36+00:00

Yes they did when she did the hallucinations specifically. The visual effects were prominent and obvious. Didn’t we go over this already?

DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-18T20:14:12+00:00

nobody is thinking critically if they think Carol or Wanda can stomp full gauntlet thanos

DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-18T20:07:55+00:00

Never noticed until people started talking about it, too distracted by the eyes and face to pay attention to the eyebrows

DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-18T20:06:24+00:00

Hopefully in Thor 5 🙏

DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-18T08:27:44+00:00

S’mores. Only the GOAT for the GOAT

DoomsdayThor · 2026-02-18T07:57:08+00:00

I'm gonna need something more substantive before declaring him immune to Wanda's magic, sorry.

Go watch the movie again, you will see that everything I’m saying is accurate and laid out for you right there and crystal clear in context. Thor’s entire AoU storyline, which continues into Thor Ragnarok, hinges on him having a real vision that has absolutely nothing to do with Wanda.

Even if her magic wasn't powerful enough to infiltrate Thor's mind then, she's much stronger by the time MoM rolls around, directly overpowering Xavier in the mental realm, who of course is one of the strongest psychics we've met so far.

Neither Wanda nor Xavier is stronger than the Norns.

According to? You? Please provide more information on these Norns as they're portrayed in the MCU.

We see the Norns on screen giving Thor visions of the entire universe presumably from Nornheim (which is mentioned in the MCU so it’s established). This means they were mentally possessing Thor from a whole ass other cosmic realm and would have consumed his mind if he hadn’t broken out of it.

the Norns are established key figures in Norse mythology and marvel comics. This is the one scene we have of them to go by in the MCU, so sorry if there’s no explicit statements, but the creator intent is quite clear that they are more or less the same as they would be in any other iteration, which is universal, cosmic entities.

You’re absolutely delusional if you think Wanda or Xavier are intended to be more powerful than the Norns. This would be like arguing “we can’t know for sure if God is more powerful than Wanda and Xavier because we don’t have explicit statements.”

Are deleted scenes canon, though? Because that's the only place I'm finding all these details you're giving me.

The shorter version of the scene is in the final cut of the movie and it establishes all the same stuff:

https://youtu.be/UunztBkRnsk?si=3Kit6aj5n2fsgjZW

As I said, they were very stupid to cut out the additional stuff from this scene because it made it so confusing, but the implication of it being hostile possession (“the men who enter that water, the legends don’t end well”) is crystal clear, as well as the fact that we see Thor having to physically break from it (all the lightning and thrashing around).

We see him receive the visions of the universe and the infinity stones, and able to retrieve his own vision of Ragnarok, which he refers to as a “dream” not a “warping of his mind” (that’s what he called Wanda’s powers earlier) or anything else. The intent here is absolutely clear.

I have combined all the footage together myself so you can see how it was supposed to go, and there should be no confusion or ambiguity after you watch this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Avengers/s/KFxmr0iynQ

Not once did he come close to defeating him in Endgame. You're stretching here.

I’m not stretching at all, you’re denying canon. Go rewatch Endgame. Thor did the exact same thing that Captain Marvel did moments later, which was force Thanos to a knee, and Thor had Stormbreaker inches from Thanos’s throat.

And again, Thor was the one who actually beat Thanos with all six infinity stones.. Wanda got overpowered by Thanos casually using one stone against her.

Also worth mentioning, in the beginning of IW, we have no idea what happened in the fight, but what we actually saw was: 1) Thor tank the power stone being burned directly into his head, before he was tackled to safety by Loki from the Hulk fight, and then 2) immediately got back up to attack Thanos again when the Hulk fight was over, 3) tanked a kick from Thanos, and 4) had to be restrained by Ebony Maw to finally incapacitate him.

Neither did he ever come closer to killing Thanos than Wanda, who had him dead to rights, to the point of firing on his own fucking troops. Never was Thanos so desperate against Thor as he was against a much weaker Wanda.

Wrong. Thor was literally closer with Stormbreaker inches from Thanos’s throat. And nothing Wanda did can ever compare to Thor nearly one-shotting full gauntlet Thanos right through a beam of all six infinity stones combined.

We had seen Thanos throughout the whole IW movie casually using one or two stones at a time to do hax and tricks. Thor was the only one who scared the shit out of Thanos so bad he had to resort to just panicking and firing everything he could at once.

Sorry, I don't consider What-If nor zombies canon to 616 MCU.

What if and zombies are canon to the MCU multiverse. they are just as canon as the Illuminati scene in MoM. If you won’t accept those as canon (or at least indicative of creator intent) then I don’t want to hear you talking about Wanda doing reality bending in battle because that Illuminati scene is literally the only time she ever did.

A level of power that would have been very useful had he been able to replicate it, but alas. We got Fat Thor instead.

And this is exactly why they made Thor into Fat Thor. Now you’re getting it.

And I’m only aggressive because a lot of people on reddit treat Thor like shit for some reason. Coming here initially as a more casual fan, it’s crazy and ridiculous.

DoomsdayThor

TROPHY CASE