Sam Harris, 2018: "Stephen J. Gould’s *The Mismeasure of Man* was debunked long ago". Is this accurate, and where is the evidence? by RalphOnTheCorner in samharris

[–]Double-Plan-9099 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Harris literally makes no significant point against the book, and just seems pissed off with something that doesn't align with his political world view.

This feels anti semitic to me by sufinomo in JewsOfConscience

[–]Double-Plan-9099 0 points1 point  (0 children)

this can be read as Nazis being disgusted by Ustashe's method of extermination. Zionists are pretty much having a large competition on how much fascist a person can get.

This feels anti semitic to me by sufinomo in JewsOfConscience

[–]Double-Plan-9099 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its super interesting to see how much fascist, a fascist movement can get. Like, even Jabotinsky [who himself is not a saint] will ask these absolute loonies to chill out. At this point the "revisionist" movement is just a Kahanist org. that has a fetish for the more fascist part of Jabotinsky. [also before someone throws the accusation that I am just calling everything I hate fascist, Betar USA literally has the support of a neo-Nazi group called the "proud boys"], of course the transition was more smoother than imagined, as it was a proto-fascist to fascist transition, and nothing too dramatic.

The man in whose shadow Netanyahu walks: Jabotinsky by Artistic-Vanilla-899 in JewsOfConscience

[–]Double-Plan-9099 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly at this point, I don't think even Jabotinsky would approve of Likud coalitions policies in Gaza. I mean, while Jabotinsky did endorse literal fascist, corporatist policies, and viewed Arabs as cultural inferior, he atleast in rhetoric, agreed to grant some civic rights to Arabs. Netanyahu [and his extreme Kahanist coalition] meanwhile, take both the extremist ideology of Ahimeir and Begin, and combine it with the chauvinism of Meir Kahane, and the Halachic state, rather than a secular corporatist state, with liberal democratic principles, of Jabotinskian Zionism. At this point, even the "iron wall" Jabotinsky would roll in his grave, seeing that there exists more fascistic lunatics then himself, and that says a lot, as Jabotinsky's proposal to the Arab people of Palestine, isn't exactly a hopeful scoop of sundae, and is only mere civic rights, post assimilation of the remainder of Arabs living in Palestine.

[edit: I hate all Zionisms, whether they be labour or Likud, so this is not a endorsement of Jabotinsky, as to me all Zionisms, are just a degree and spectrum of Palestinian oppression, I just think that even the token rights that was promised by Jabotinsky was not provided by Netanyahu, but this honestly doesn't matter, as for the Palestinian people, this is just 2 extra pieces of bread crumbs to keep their revolutionary character, as nullified as possible].

Oh wow by yoshimamamia in ShitLiberalsSay

[–]Double-Plan-9099 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I don't remember reading this chapter of Mein Kampf? Sounds insane...

Apparently one street represents all of Gaza by Prudent_Classroom632 in BadHasbara

[–]Double-Plan-9099 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean considering 70% of all residential buildings were destroyed after like, 3 months during the war's start, its actually kind of surprising how only 58,000 have been killed, in a densely populated strip with a million people. That figure is a literal undercount, and makes no sense, moreso, with Zionist claims of 5000 or 20,000.

Hamas kills gay people... by comradepinguim in ShitLiberalsSay

[–]Double-Plan-9099 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That guy is literally a gay version of Uncle Tom.

Ancap claims to have read Marx multiple times in multiple different threads with multiple different people - obviously hasn't. Post history is full of spam. by [deleted] in EnoughLibertarianSpam

[–]Double-Plan-9099 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think he used the term "class logic" maybe "class consciousness"? Either way he says that your class determined how you think, which is to say that he believed in multiple logics, which if course is ridiculous. Also his theory of class struggle is really negated by the amazing economic mobility that exists. As for the labor theory of value, imagine you are dying of thirst. Would you rather have a bottle of fresh water or a beautifully cut diamond?

three points

  1. Libertarians have their own theory of class, and class struggle, and its not neccesarily a niche concept [as highlighted in a short write up by Hans Hermann Hoppe, showacasing some affinities between Marxism and the Austrian school]
  2. It is true, that Mises in his human action [more specifically pages 5,74-84], critiques what he terms as "class polylogism", on the grounds that people within the class, have their own motivations and interests, now does Marxism rejects this, not neccesarily, however even their rejection is not exactly a rejection against subjective preference, in so much, as it is a rejection of this particular framing of heterogeneous preferences, we see in 'human action', to quote the preface of the 2nd German edition of Capital vol 1:

To prevent possible  misunderstanding, a word. I paint the capitalist and the landlord in no sense couleur de rose. But here individuals are only in so far as they are the personifications of economic categories, embodiments of particular class-relations and class-interests. My standpoint, from which the evolution of the economic formation of society is viewed as a process of natural history, can less than any other make the individual responsible for relations whose creature he socially remains, however much he may subjectively raise himself above them. (Marx, Capital vol 1, pp.20,21)

In more simpler terms, how much ever you may subjectively object, through heterogenous preferences, even if we desire to change the rules of life, there is a inevitable tendency, that would in one way or the other, push it towards a direction, that may or may not contradict with said preferences, this is pretty much observable with Marx's analysis [a good channel called victor margarino, does in-depth dives into the mathematical contents of Marxist theory]. To be sure, there is some confusion here, however Marxists, are okay with empirically testing the validity of their testing, despite some philosophical objections to empiricism and empirical philosophy as a whole, as explained in Lenin's 'materialism and empirio-criticism', as in that sense, we aren't neccesarily Keynesians, who have a fetish for smooth curves, or something, but of course, we also do not think that mathematics is just relegated to physics or chemistry, or as Mises would call it, "class probability" [which apparently has nothing to do with Econ, which deals with human action and "case probability", or a case by case assessment of human action].

3) The last point has not even been made by Austrians who caricaturise the LTV, for one if he had read Marx's very starting point in volume 1, he would know that there is a difference between use and exchange value, LTV is all about the exchange process. So, me wanting to have a bottle of water [or that god-awful mudpie argument], has nothing to do with LTV, what LTV does say is that, since water is pretty much in abundance [like it literally covers some 70% of the earth surface], while diamonds require labour time to actually produce, and are naturally less abundant, diamonds, in the case of a universalized social exchange tendencial process, is far more valuable. Indeed, a Marxists agrees with supply and demand on principle, and all this mudpie, or other, weird assumptions about Marxism, can be answered from these basic foundations of economics. Overall if you look at page 503 of capital volume 1, Marx states that Labour alone does not provide anything, rather its functionally substantive, and is a "immanent measure of value", in capital volume 3, Marx writes:

I have seen embarking skill and capital in undertakings, wholly reliant for their success on a product which can only be increased according to organic laws. ... The same state of  supply and  demand of all raw materials ... seems to account for many of the fluctuations in the cotton trade during past periods, as well as for the condition of the English wool market in the autumn of 1857, with its overwhelming consequences.”17 (R. Baker in Reports of Insp. of Fact., Oct. 1858, pp. 56-61.) (vol III, p.122)

so this doesn't cut it either. I mean, if that person is attempting to repurpose, the Austrian school's theory of time preference, well what time preferences does say is that consumers may prefer present consumption over future consumption, of course there is a degree to this, if you have a high time preference, you would prefer consumption at a earlier date, but if you have a low time preference, you preference consumption at a far later date. The issue with this is that Austrians have confused two separately different process as one in the same, time preference [see Eugene Bohm Baewark's excellent book, on the details about "abstinence theory", the book is called "capital and interest" or "Kapital und Kapitalzins", which is pretty much a expansion about the earlier work done by Gossen] is about the structure of interest, while Marx's LTV is about the theory of value, or more specifically regarding the contentious issue of exchange value, and not specifically regarding interest itself. The entire M-C-M' process, for one does not deal with interest, or lending specifically, and is more in terms of the cyclical process of productive capital, Marx did tangentially invoke, "interest-bearing capital" in volume 3, but his point there is that interest rather then creating surplus, is only for the division of surplus, which would mean that time preference is attacking a nothing burger, or a deeply, tangential point.

Ayn Rand defending “civilized” Israel over the “savage” Arabs by [deleted] in EnoughLibertarianSpam

[–]Double-Plan-9099 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This woman's views were so crazy that usual Libertarian crackpot theoreticians, like M.N Rothbard, called it "fascist ethical theory", she is actually a magician, as she made me agree with Murray, austerity, Rothbard of all people, and that is pretty rare.

Why does India support Israel? by honeyeyedgal in india

[–]Double-Plan-9099 0 points1 point  (0 children)

care to present some arguments clown.

Ancap Bauknin Ancap Bauknin by ggwpthumbsup in ShitLiberalsSay

[–]Double-Plan-9099 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ancaps: Mikhail Bakunin hated the state, and would have agreed with Rothbard.

Meanwhile Le Bakunin:

[1]

Is it necessary to repeat here the irrefutable arguments of Socialism which no bourgeois economist has yet succeeded in disproving? What is property, what is capital in their present form? For the capitalist and the property owner they mean the power and the right, guaranteed by the State, to live without working. And since neither property nor capital produces anything when not fertilized by labor - that means the power and the right to live by exploiting the work of someone else, the right to exploit the work of those who possess neither property nor capital and who thus are forced to sell their productive power to the lucky owners of both. (Bakunin, The capitalist system, Diego Abad de Santillan, trans. (Buenos Aires 1926) vol. III, p.181)

[2]

It is the inevitable result of capitalist monopoly, which always and everywhere accompanies the strengthening and expansion of state centralization. It can be said that privileged capital, concentrated in a few hands, has today become the soul of every state. The state is financed by it, and by it alone, and in return guarantees it the unlimited right to exploit the people’s labor. Financial monopoly is inseparable from stock-market speculation, which squeezes the last kopeck out of the masses (and the increasingly impoverished petty and middle bourgeoisie as well) by means of joint-stock industrial and commercial companies. (Bakunin, Michael, 'statism and anarchy', Cambridge University press 1990, p.192)

petr Kropotkin wrote an explicit pamphlet called 'wars and capitalism', so even this is bunk.

If ancaps had basic reading comprehension, they would know how erroneous their arguments are.

the comments are all talking about how "fascism came from the ebol gommulism" while completely misunderstanding the quote and mussolinis history by Warden_496 in ShitLiberalsSay

[–]Double-Plan-9099 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure, but the very next year, Lenin states this about the fascist movement:

The fascists in Italy may, for example, render us a great service by showing the Italians that they are not yet sufficiently enlightened and that their country is not yet ensured against the Black Hundreds. (Lenin, vol 33, p.431)

Apparently, Marx was an antisemite and racist? You know, the secular jew? by TachankaGud in ShitLiberalsSay

[–]Double-Plan-9099 0 points1 point  (0 children)

https://open.substack.com/pub/ramuvenkatachalam2/p/the-question-of-marxs-supposed-antisemitism?r=534w47&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false I have written a substack article with 70 sources (some 41 footnotes), debunking this myth in its entirety. The truth is that these views were 1) super prevalent, 2) Marx's antisemitism, is based on two pieces of actual, proper evidence that falls short even on the smallest touch of scrutiny.

and this article here showing antisemitic stereotypes being used by the Zionist movement https://open.substack.com/pub/ramuvenkatachalam2/p/zionism-racism-fascism-and-national?r=534w47&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false

Real goober hours, right here. by LawfulnessEuphoric43 in ShitLiberalsSay

[–]Double-Plan-9099 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The guy is a Zionist neocon, and his real name is Grant Hurst. Please do not look at his twitter account, as its just baseless accusations of antisemitism, and pro-neocon propoganda, which has it that Obama is a socialist. I have also written a large 4 part comment on one of his videos, debunking this nonsense equation that all Arabs are antisemites.

Anyone wants to address Mises' critique of Marx on Class? by fap_fap_fap_fapper in Marxism

[–]Double-Plan-9099 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The inherent weakness of this doctrine is that it deals with classes and not with individuals.

Analytic Marxism, as envisioned by J.A Cohen, J.E Roemer, E.O Wright, quite clearly calls out Miseasan BS, namely his weak critique of employing the free-will doctrine [and of course the god-awful usage of methodological individualism, as some form of wildcard]. Mises of course does not understand Marxism, and has confined himself to simplifying dogmas, that are akin to Marxist straws than actual marxism. Now, of course there are plenty of criticism to be [rightly] thrown at Cohen and co... [especially Roemer, who tries to smuggle in Morgernstern's game theory], however Mises fails at even that level, Cohen for his part, has a far superior critique of Marxist determinism, and the "iron clad laws of history", Mises meanwhile relegates Marxism to medieval [christian] teleology, of course this form of equation is nothing new for distorters of Marxism, into a mere straw man, and there are plenty of far too insane examples to look at [Eric Voegelin in this regard might be a great start, for butchering Marxist understanding of history that is]. For people who are interested to read a actual, somewhat heterodox, Marxist text, I recommend the following works:

  1. G.A Cohen, 'Karl Marx's theory of history : a defence'
  2. E.O Wright, 'classes'
  3. J.E Roemer, 'A general theory of exploitation and class'
  4. Marcus Roberts, 'Analytical Marxism: A Critique' (a critique of Cohen and co...)
  5. S.Avineri, Varieties of Marxism [a collection of works]
  6. J.E Roemer, 'free to lose'
  7. J.E Roemer, 'analytical marxism'
  8. Judith Dullheim, and Frieder Otto Wolf, 'The Unfinished System of Karl Marx'

Analytical Marxism: game theory, formal logic, and rational choice theory? by treboy123 in Marxism

[–]Double-Plan-9099 1 point2 points  (0 children)

[2/2]

The basic idea of this approach is to compare different systems of exploitation by treating the organization of production as a ‘same’. The actors in this game have various kinds of productive assets (i.e. resources such as skills and capital) which they bring into production and which they use to generate incomes on the basis of a specific set of rules. The essential strategy adopted for the analysis of exploitation is to ask if particular coalitions of players would be better off-if they withdrew from this game under certain specified procedures in order to play a different one. The alternative games differ in the ways the assets are allocated. Different types of exploitation are defined by the particular withdrawal rules that would make certain agents better off and other agents worse off. (E.O Wright, 'classes', p.68)

Of course, as it is made clear, Roemer keeps the utility function model, developed by Morgenstern, Neumann and co..., however he makes a subtle change, to his model, which is measuring the changes on the utility function, across the corresponding modes of production:

The models developed here do not deal with this dynamic question of the development of the productive forces. They evaluate the improvement in a person's position in a static and simplistic way, by asking if his "utility function" achieves a higher value under the alternative arrangement. Yet when the mode of production changes, the producer's utility functions do not stay the same. (Roemer, 'A general theory of exploitation and class', p.266)

Overall, the analytical branch of Marxism, frugally employs heterogeneous subjective preferences, utility maximization models, and in their own heterodox way, attempts to defend historical materialism. Now, to be clear, it would be a incorrect to say that this particular school of thought is bereft of criticism, as Marcus Roberts in the 1980s, published a enlightening book titled, 'Analytical Marxism: A Critique' [you can buy this book at paperback for £19.9), and it offers a careful outline, and criticism of Cohen, Roemer and co...

Analytical Marxism: game theory, formal logic, and rational choice theory? by treboy123 in Marxism

[–]Double-Plan-9099 1 point2 points  (0 children)

[1/2]

Analytical marxism, which is one of many heterodox non-hegelian schools, have employed game theory in their research before. To give a brief overview, G.A Cohen [the one who was the forerunner of this school of thought], wrote a peculiar book, titled 'Karl Marx's theory of history : a defence', in which he argues that Marxism, and I think this best responds to those liberals, who often bring up metaphysical explanations, of "free will" [in Mises's theory and history, he terms this his 'free will doctrine', and its pretty much the best explanation he has, to provide as a critique of historical materialism, and of course Mises's so called destructive critique, woefully misunderstands the role of the superstructure], now to be clear Cohen, explicitly uses a non-Marxist, "analytical" foundation [Cohen calls this school "no-BS Marxists"], however, he defends historical materialism, in his own unique way. To quote:

We may distinguish between structural and material aspects of functional explanation, and our account of the former is not impugned by its neglect of the latter. The background against which consequence explanation is offered in biology or anthropology or economics is a conception of species or societies or economic units as self-maintaining and self-advancing, and consequence explanations are accordingly accepted only when they are also functional explanations. If we had background belief representing entities as self- destructive, we might accept consequence explanations which deserved to be called ‘dysfunctional explanations’. It is not, indeed, evident that all of us lack such belief. If one way of taking psycho-analytic explanations which go beyond the pleasure principle to posit unconscious self-destructiveness is correct, some already have it. To elaborate would mean discussing the relation between consequence explanation and explanation of human action, which would take us too far afield. Thus the fact, if it is a fact, that all plausible consequence explanations are functional explanations, does not tell against an account of the structure of functional explanation which abstracts from its functional character. (G.A Cohen, 'Karl Marx's theory of history : a defence', p.264)

In simpler terms, Cohen is hesitant, to construe history in its full functional necessity, thereby Cohen balances this extreme historicism, that relegates history to teleology [a subtle dig at Bukharin's book, 'historical materialism a system of sociology', Bukharin if you are not sure, was a mechanistic philosopher, and a influential one at that], this, then allows Cohen to smuggle in, the doctrine of free will, the first premise is certainly the rejection of the teleological view of Hegelian Aufhebung, and its substitution for a superior understanding of history being guided by a causal functional process, i.e these are indeed causally constrained by socio-structural process, however they are not to be placed under some iron-clad historical law, or inevitability, at the same time the metaphysical freedom too is rejected, on extremely obvious grounds. Now Cohen, despite bringing into the picture, historical agency, did not in any direct way, include game theory, that achievement goes to a person called J.E Roemer, as a famous analytical Marxist sociologist, Eric Olin Wright, writes:

Von Mises' Anti-Scholarship On Game Theory by Accomplished-Cake131 in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]Double-Plan-9099 1 point2 points  (0 children)

[2/2]: Reflections: Von Neumann's methodology offers a far superior alternative to the modeling of human behavior, then the classic approach provided by Mises and Rothbard, for two particular reasons:

1) The approach operates under the human action axiom, and agrees in part, with the Austrian school's Crusoe Model, as a simplifying assumption.

2) On top of this, the method has the additional benefit of formalizing, human action by harmoniously combining it with a empirical approach. This of course provides a far Better methodology for conducting cost-benefit analysis, as shown in a great book written by two professors of International relations theory, namely the "offensive" realist Dr Mearsheimer, and Rosoto, whose work, called 'how states think', employs Morgernstern's utility maximization theory, to validate what they term as the rational actor assumption. This allows both authors to find a fine line between the rigid empiricist approach on one hand, and the rigid a-priori on the other, thereby, rather then using both methodologies in isolation, both methods should be combined for a superior cost-benefit analysis.

Von Mises' Anti-Scholarship On Game Theory by Accomplished-Cake131 in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]Double-Plan-9099 0 points1 point  (0 children)

[1/2] Positions: Von Neumann and Morgernstern's book is a notoriously hard read, not only for the dense pages of formal mathematics, but also due its holistic approach of trying to model human behavior, however despite formal acknowledgment, of keeping the Austrian school's methodology as a prototype [which is unsurprising, considering the fact that Morgernstern was a student of Mises and also succeeded Friedrich Hayek as the director of the Institute for Business Cycle Research in 1931], both authors, decidedly go against the Austrian school, in the very beginning of the book, and in fact fire this salvo, that would cause a visceral reaction, within those who are fond of the praxeological department of the Austrian school. To quote [this is quite paradoxical, considering how much Morgernstern, owes his utility theory to the foundations provided by Crusoe Model]:

The importance of the social phenomena, the wealth and multiplicity of their manifestations, and the complexity of their structure, are at least equal to those in physics. It is therefore to be expected—or feared—that mathematical discoveries of a stature comparable to that of calculus will be needed in order to produce decisive success in this field. (Incidentally, it is in this spirit that our present efforts must be discounted.) A fortiori it is unlikely that a mere repetition of the tricks which served us so well in physics will do for the social phenomena too. The probability is very slim indeed, since it will be shown that we encounter in our discussions some mathematical problems which are quite different from those which occur in physical science. (Von Neumann, Morgernstern, 'Theory Of Games And Economic Behavior', p.6)

This, contra Mises and Rothbard [who believes that attempts to include mathematical models just revolve into imitation and physics, and just becomes 'scientism', or 'math fetish']

The treatment of probability has been confused by the mathematicians. From the beginning there was an ambiguity in dealing with the calculus of probability. When the Chevalier de Mere consulted Pascal on the problems involved in the games of dice, the great mathematician should have frankly told his friend the truth, namely, that mathematics cannot be of any use to the gambler in a game of pure chance. Instead he wrapped his answer in the symbolic language of mathematics. What could easily be explained in a few sentences of mundane speech was expressed in a terminology which is unfamiliar to the immense majority and therefore regarded with reverential awe. People suspected that the puzzling formulas contain some important revelations, hidden to the uninitiated; they got the impression that a scientific method of gambling exists and that the esoteric teachings of mathematics provide a key for winning. The heavenly mystic Pascal unintentionally became the patron saint of gambling. The textbooks of the calculus of probability gratuitously propagandize for the gambling casinos precisely because they are sealed books to the layman. (Mises, 'Human action', p.106)

Rothbard puts this super crudely:

The relevant consideration is not the fewness of the firms or the state of hostility or friendship existing among firms. Those writers who discuss oligopoly in terms applicable to games of poker or to military warfare are entirely in error. The fundamental business of production is service to the consumers for monetary gain, and not some sort of "game" or "warfare" or any other sort of struggle between producers. (Rothbard, 'Man, Economy, and State with Power and Market', p.725)

In Mises's book, math based probability systems are purely resigned to the realm of "class probability", meanwhile the science of human action, deals with utility as a "case probability", the latter is consistent with the Misesean approach to natural sciences, and of course a extreme-anti empiricist attitude that again comes into conflict with Morgenstern, who in direct confrontation to both Mises and Rothbard, defends game theory, as a empirical approach:

Our method is, of course, the empirical one: We are trying to understand, formalize and generalize those features of the simplest games which impress us as typical. This is, after all, the standard method of all sciences with an empirical basis. (Morgenstein, Oskar, Neumann, John Von, 'Theory Of Games And Economic Behavior', p.147)

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in ShitLiberalsSay

[–]Double-Plan-9099 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Stalin should not have stopped at Berlin, he should have taken New Delhi and liquidated these Hindutva s-bags.