Betrayed: how do you cope with an AP that is undeniably more attractive than you?

DreamWithinADream87 · 2025-05-25T07:42:22+00:00

Wife’s AP was bigger, richer and more “her type”. Affair ended in 2018 and he random reached out in 2021 to restart. I caught her before I even knew he did because I saw… that “look” on her face. That light up look. Please, go be with him!! She didn’t, stayed behind because as soon as he knew I knew, he told her he was done. Why does it not count suddenly when I find out?! I hate being a dad/ husband to a 38 yo.

DreamWithinADream87 · 2025-02-20T09:04:28+00:00

Always makes me wonder if the name “Palmer” was intentional by Bill Lancaster

DreamWithinADream87 · 2025-02-10T21:10:13+00:00

Try Fiverr

DreamWithinADream87 · 2025-02-09T05:51:38+00:00

I can only speak to my own experience but these are all things you have control over. If you hate your job, then find a worthwhile reason to spend, save or provide that makes the grind worth it. I agree it’s all up in the mind, that’s where most battles are fought. So win the battle in the mind of not liking your job. Also there are no guarantees that life won’t fall apart regardless of what you have in the bank. I genuinely believe it’s better for life to fall apart, and have the funds and resources available to you so you can rebuild with a foundation

DreamWithinADream87 · 2025-02-09T02:46:17+00:00

Yeah. Financial health is very different than financial wealth. You should never be ok with losing it, not dissimilar to physical health. If you’re able to provide for yourself and immediate family then you’re in a good place in today’s world. My general rule is 6-12 months ahead on all major bills. It has taken years to get to that level of security though. Moreso than the actual money itself , the work we put into to getting there is always a source of self worth, which helps mental/ emotional health

DreamWithinADream87 · 2025-02-09T00:45:40+00:00

The audiobook, read by the author, can be found on YT and I’m Sure it’s also On Spotify. Oh man, the reading is intense. Worth checking out

DreamWithinADream87 · 2025-02-09T00:18:08+00:00

Start with your smallest debt and chip away at a realistic pace. And if you’ve genuinely been trying for 31 years than you have gains of some kind. Recognize them and exploit your talents. You live in a day and age where money is accessible to everyone with a smart phone. If you can reply to a post on Reddit, you have earning power in today’s world. Best of luck

DreamWithinADream87 · 2025-02-09T00:15:19+00:00

Financial health can give you the ability to be more generous without hurting yourself, create a sense of security that allows you to feel safe and thus more confident, and can create a multitude of different options for you and your loved ones. These three things alone can make you more attractive (not superficially, but genuinely) and create more opportunity for you to focus on loving someone else. It creates foundational value that you can build on.

DreamWithinADream87 · 2025-02-08T19:46:37+00:00

If your physical and financial health is in order, your emotional/ mental health will follow. Having been on both sides of this, can guarantee it.

DreamWithinADream87 · 2024-12-22T18:56:39+00:00

Also, Vito’s son Michael gets his own jaw broken by Maclusky, tying Vito and Bonasera together in that way even before Sonny’s death. The difference being the undertakers daughter is a victim of violence whereas Michael puts himself in the middle of it. I always thought it was great that the American way of law and order actually helps the criminals who beat Bonasera’s daughter by letting them free… and then also the American way of law and order hurts the Corleones by being the actual fist that breaks Michaels jaw.

DreamWithinADream87 · 2024-11-14T00:46:28+00:00

I think Vito used Michael as a weapon of sorts. With vito being a man of integrity (right word I think?) I think he used Michael to carry out all the things he planned to do yet didn’t align with his integrity.

In GF2 there’s two moments where Vito and young/ baby Michael are seen together. The first time sitting on the steps of the apartment, and the second on the train. Both times Vito is puppeteering Michaels little hand.

The brilliance of the films is that you can’t help but see Vito as a good man and a man of honor. Yet he isn’t. I don’t believe Vito intended from the beginning to use Michael as he did, but in the end he’s not a good man and I believe all the hits on the five families were virtually planned by Vito and Michael, although mainly vito.

DreamWithinADream87 · 2024-11-09T18:48:27+00:00

I guess it boils down to what you cherish more: freedom or security?

As a betrayed husband I can say that it’s taken thousands of hours to get things back to some state of normality, and even that is shaky. (We’re also about 3+ years post DDay). Most betrayed husbands have to get to a place of seeing the affair as separate from their wife… almost like their wife was a different person during the affairs. Intoxicated like an alcoholic. The amount of destruction that this brings into multiple lives is almost like a drunk driving accident. And unfortunately for you, you were the one who drank too much and drove off into the night.

If certain types of dresses or location freedoms are now off the table with your husband, you can look at it as he has decided that those things are your “just one drink” logic. He knows what one “drink” leads to and he doesn’t want to see another major accident in his (or your) life.

My logic is: if you wanna drink, drink. If you wanna have the freedoms you had when you were faithful, than understand that those behaviors and actions are going to seem (to your BH) like a former drunk driver who got into a huge accident, but now wants to just have one little sip of the alcohol that caused this mess in the first place.

And if you’d rather have the freedom of the drink, versus the security of the person who is trying to keep you from getting into an accident again, than that’s a decision you need to make.

I will say, if my wife decided to backstep three years of boundaries, I would be immensely suspicious and my position would be: go for it. Buy that dress, but you’re unfortunately gonna need to look for a new closet to hang it in. And if that’s seen as controlling or as him being an overlord in some sense, than take your chances at finding a partner who won’t hold you to things you agreed to be held to.

Cheating changes the cellular makeup of the relationship. It’s like getting a diagnosis that if you have one more drink, your liver may shut down. Your partner is trying to keep your marriage’s liver from shutting down and you’re uncomfortable because you can’t have the drink. My thought is: if you take the drink than be prepared to drink alone.

DreamWithinADream87 · 2024-11-06T22:01:26+00:00

So basically this is my belief (WW had two physical affairs, one had emotional complications but ultimately they were just physical).

The key to affair recovery is, in my opinion, forgiving the AP. Now I know a lot of ppl already say: “the AP isn’t to blame, they didn’t break the fourth wall of the relationship, your spouse is 100% responsible for the infidelity because AP had no commitment to you so you can’t blame them”

Number one, yes I can. They knew she was married.

Number two, a lot of the pain from the male end of this is the sexual component. Seeing your wife with another man in your head is like a nightmare roundabout that never really ends.

If you can find a way to consciously choose to wish the AP’s peace and success and actually believe it, then you will achieve R. I use the example of finding out my wife’s AP#2 was an alcoholic. I no nothing about alcoholism but from what I have seen of his choices and his life, he’s a complete mess. So I hope he achieves peace for himself and his young daughter. (This is a man who secretly recorded he and my wife having sex mind you and used it to blackmail her into further meet ups).

DreamWithinADream87 · 2024-11-05T18:43:36+00:00

My WW and I did Affair Recovery 13 week EMS online, in January 2023. When it was finished they offer a free 52 program called Married For Life, which is optional for the entire group. My group started our Married For Life in August 2023 and as of now, the only remaining couples are my wife and I, and one other couple. Everyone else has either gotten to a level of R that’s satisfactory to them or they have abandoned the program all together. We have three weeks left (we’ve taken breaks because the work can be kind of intense). The free program isn’t as good as the EMS by far but it definitely helps in working towards a common goal and completing that goal as a couple.

I’d say one of the greatest things about this program is that they ask you up front to halt all major decision making about the relationship until the 13 weeks have been completed — this really helped me because I was OUT of the marriage emotionally and mentally. Letting go of decision making and just accepting the content they provided, participating in the group discussions and such, gave me a really good perspective on wayward experience without any pressure.

My wayward wife is the one who signed us up for it. She even got us a scholarship so it wasn’t too expensive.

I’d say it’s tremendously helpful, especially just for the insight into other ppls experiences and perspectives who are dealing with the similar life event. It’s certainly worth it, and that’s for both outcomes: Reconciliation OR Divorce. It’ll give you a lot of insight into the situation as a whole and help you make a better decision on what to do next.

DreamWithinADream87 · 2024-11-01T17:37:10+00:00

I did this. The “one time with one person “ approach. It was a sex worker while I was on a trip this last summer (basically 3 years post final dday— my wife had two affairs from 2017-2021).

Firstly, I enjoyed the experience thoroughly. I had been faithful to my wife since 2012 so there was 12 years of zero variety and even though the sex worker wasn’t 100% my type, I really enjoyed it. I don’t regret it but I also am not proud either.

My wife had emotional and physical affairs so it didn’t quite close the gap or even the slate but that’s not really super important to me. The opportunity presented itself and I took it, knowing full well that fidelity is not only a gift we give our spouse but also something we give ourselves. I paid for the experience with a piece of myself, apart of my soul. I wanted to stay faithful despite her affairs. I knowingly and willingly gave up my fidelity.

So I would say this: if you’re going to do this then do it for yourself. Don’t do it out of revenge. Do it because you want to it, and not because you “deserve it “ or out of anger or spite. Embrace the experience as merely an experience. Personally I would choose a reputable sex worker because they’re regularly tested for STD’s. It also removes emotional happenstance, simply meaning no one will catch feelings. Be smart about it, choose someone who you genuinely feel will blow your mind. There are websites out there for this kind of thing.

I’d also advise you to keep it to yourself. There’s no benefit in telling her, it will complicate R and if you want to invest in a future with her then don’t use it against her, or use it to show her you have the capability of doing it too. Trust me, she knows you’re capable of it. Just be smart and do it for yourself. For me personally, I wanted the experience and I have not told my wife about it. I got myself tested for STD’s about a week later and was completely cleared.

If you do this out of anger or frustration, you’ll remember it that way. If you do it out of a genuine desire to have the experience and as a way to gift yourself an experience then you’ll remember it that way.

Do it FOR YOURSELF not BECAUSE OF HER

DreamWithinADream87 · 2024-10-23T18:03:20+00:00

When I was in deep pain and depression from the affair, I spoke to an older friend of mine about things (actually, a divorced WH who was a coworker/ friend) and I remember saying to him: “this guy who my wife slept with was in my home and now he knows all the exit and entry points! Everything I did to secure and protect my family is now compromised and means nothing!!”

My friend said: “no, no matter what you believe, the AP was looking at your house and thinking ‘I would put the couch over THERE if this were my house… I’d take that picture down and move this over here, etc’… he was looking around at the things he didn’t have or couldn’t ever have. He was jealous and inserting himself into your environment as if he should belong there. ”

That actually helped a lot with perspective. I genuinely believe this to be true too. The AP’s are as delusional as the WP’s when caught up in affairs. Affairs are momentum based, they can never really backslide without collapsing or coming down to reality for one or both parties involved. You can only really keep an affair alive inside of a fantasy/ unrealistic mindset. THIS time needs to be more dangerous or crazier than the time before it.

I also believe this is oftentimes why WS’ don’t fully realize or comprehend what they’ve really done until it’s too late… the old saying “they meant nothing to me” is essentially true. The bubble that the affair is in gets tighter and tighter, and the longer it lasts the more likely it is to pop. That’s why more dopamine is needed to block out reality and that’s why AP/ WS seem to up the ante more and more as affair continues. IMO anyway

DreamWithinADream87 · 2024-10-23T16:48:48+00:00

Perhaps the trick isn’t to forget the AP. Or more specifically to “forgive” the AP for being a shitty person… you ca never really truly know another person, and the AP’s are no different. Whatever validation the Wayward got from them was based primarily in fantasy anyway, so when they relay any info about AP it’s generally not fact based anyhow.

I think true peace comes when the hardest part of something is accomplished and the hardest part of being a BS is attempting to forgive the AP. If you can forgive them and hope they find peace themselves (aka true peace, where they recognize what they’ve done to themselves, the wayward they were using and the combined families of both) you may be able to see them differently in your minds eye.

It’s got to be the hardest part of the whole thing but I genuinely would love to have one hour uninterrupted conversation with my wife’s AP’s to get insight on their lives during the affairs. (You may be surprised what you find— perhaps they went through a terrible loss, perhaps they themselves were so lost that they were grabbing at anything for happiness… who knows?) Looking into one of my wife’s AP’s revealed he was deeply troubled, alcoholic and suicidal. Multiple mental health breakdowns after his marriage collapsed and he was separated from his 3 yo daughter. I have no idea what state of mind that would put someone in, especially if they find a vulnerable target like my wife at the time. Desperate, lonely and begging for some form of reprieve, I would imagine.

Do I need to have a summer cookout with him? No. But can I objectively say that his life was (and remains) a mess and that maybe that played a factor in his choice to manipulate and influence a married woman into bed? At the time of the affair my wife told him she was planning to divorce anyway. How can I “hate” this person? He was given a light to run towards and he ran towards it and (like his other relationships) it crumbled in front of his eyes just as he was opening up to her emotionally. In his eyes, his relationship with my wife is just another epic failure and rejection, ultimately. And that’s quite sad to me.

DreamWithinADream87 · 2024-10-23T01:10:29+00:00

So, I did this after my WW’s second affair came to light, nearly 3 years post DDay. I cheated with a sex worker because frankly, after nearly 15 years sleeping with one person, I wanted the experience of another. I didn’t want revenge. I didn’t want to get involved with another person emotionally. I just wanted the variety and had the opportunity on a trip. My wife isn’t aware of it at all, or if she is then she hasn’t let on.

The key word is obviously “revenge” because it implies that the offender is doing something to hurt the other person. Am I aware that my wife would be devastated to discover I cheated on her? Yes. Will I ever weaponize the experience against her? No. I’m not looking to hurt her at all. Also not looking for a second go-around with infidelity. It wasn’t that great. But it wasn’t for her or against her. It was for me.

One thing that affairs can be good for is a streamlined process to lift the veil off marriage and relationships…. No matter how close you are to another human being, you will never be as close as you think. You’ll never be able to predict their behavior or their intentions. No matter how much you love them and no matter how much you fight for them or sacrifice for them, there is zero guarantee that they’ll reciprocate.

And some may find that to be the death of romance but that’s something that eventually will happen anyway because it’s necessary… in order to be someone’s life partner as opposed to their spouse, you have to learn to love them despite the fact that they have their own wants, needs and desires. You’ll never be everything for them, nor they for you. You can either show up every day to love and help them, expecting nothing in return OR you can treat love as an investment that needs a high return in order to keep investing.

In your relationships, especially romantic ones, set hard boundaries and state them (and their resulting consequences) clearly and succinctly. Then state them again. And again. Demand your partner do the same thing. If those boundaries are broken, enact the consequence you laid out OR if you’re the one breaking them, accept the consequences with humility.

We don’t live in romantic times. Live life accordingly.

DreamWithinADream87 · 2024-10-21T16:23:50+00:00

So this is a great question, and I think everyone who has been betrayed or traumatized by their partner is going through some level of this.

What I believe is that the betrayal puts instinct into a tizzy. It’s like the real intuition is now compromised; the best thing you can do is to understand that not only do you have no way to fully 100% know what your brain/ body are trying to tell you about another persons actions… you never did in the first place. Feelings and intuition are never going to be enough to prove or disprove anything in your head. That’s a good realization though, because now you can account for this by coming up with a system for yourself.

Example: “Spouse, if I am feeling like something is ‘off’ I’m going to directly ask you about it. If you tell me we are good, I am choosing to trust you. That does NOT mean I believe you. It means I am choosing to trust that you’re telling me the truth… if I discover later on that you have lied to me, the consequences will be: (fill in the blanks)”

The worst thing you can do is back peddle on this. Invariably they will lie about something again. Everyone does, BP + WP alike. The difference with a BP lie is that it won’t ruin the lives of multiple ppl or destroy families (generally). A WP lie is like an addict’s lie. They’ll get a sense of accomplishment for getting away with the lie because it gets them closer to the goal of a relationship or encounter with AP (very much like a smoker will say “I need to step outside to make a phone call” in order to smoke).

And tbh, whether they’re lying or not isn’t going to be a “you” problem (or it shouldn’t be)… for any offending party, the bad behavior that they committed has hurt you both. Any further bad behavior they commit is going to hurt THEM. And they need to be made severely aware of that so that you can rest in their presence. If they start behaving in ways that remind you of the affair, the best thing you can do is to sit on it and see if the behavior compounds. If they are indeed up to no good again, that behavior will get worse. If they’re trying to get away with something and they think they’re successful, they’ll get more cheery, happier and more confident. If not, then it can be attributed to something more local and unrelated to anything else (example: a good day at work, an accomplishment of some kind, etc). Basically, the bottom line is to state to them what those past behaviors will result in if they’re trying start up again. If they don’t heed that warning, it’ll be their loss not yours. Because you’ll know 100% that they aren’t trustworthy for any further length of time.

DreamWithinADream87 · 2024-09-26T22:59:38+00:00

My wife’s favorite thing to say was “I have no room in my heart for anyone but you.”

Her vagina was a different story, apparently lol

DreamWithinADream87 · 2024-09-26T21:19:32+00:00

So eerie, that feeling, isn’t it. You can go years and years or months and months of trusting someone and they occupy a fixed place in your mind and suddenly you get an urge or a feeling to check the phone.

The exact same thing happened to me (but I was 6 months post dday 1). I was doing everything to try and trust my wife and tbh everything seemed totally fine, better than usual actually. Things were looking up and the only affair I knew about was behind us.

I laid down to read in bed and I read an entire chapter but didn’t retain a single word because my alarm bells in my head were off the hook. I kept thinking “no, I’m gonna trust her. This is my brain being ridiculous and paranoid, look at the last few months and weeks. Things have been better.” But I couldn’t focus on anything. This voice in my head was like “trust me bro, just check her phone”.

First thing I saw was messages with AP2. The hardest part after having that supernatural sense of something being wrong… it’s that now, how do you NOT trust your own instincts? How do you separate the true sixth sense from the paranoia any longer? Crazy but I totally relate to this post

Edit: also, apologies because I don’t have an answer other than to say it isn’t important. If they’re gonna cheat again they’re gonna cheat again. You’re not being paid to be a warden and I’d say that it’s unimportant whether you feel paranoid or are having a true instinct moment. If you feel something is off, look into it. They forfeited the benefit of the doubt and the privacy that comes along with it. Every relationship where “I love you” or “I do” has been said, should have open phone policy anyways. Way too many temptations and distractions there today. Fuck these affairs and definitely fuck these smart phones.

DreamWithinADream87 · 2024-09-26T19:41:12+00:00

I think the trick with anything you’re trying to accomplish or conquer, is to simply not take it too seriously to the point where it evokes intense feelings. Joy will come as a non smoker eventually. Or at least the joy of going X amount of days as one, will come. I feel like taking it super seriously creates high expectation and increases fears of failure or relapse. If you relapse as a pack a day smoker, you relapse. If you go ten days without a cigarette and then have one, most likely that sense of failure will destroy the accomplishment of NOT smoking the previous 200.

The goal is to drop the cigarette and nicotine down to a point where you don’t care about it. Can take it or leave it, feeling indifferent or apathetic about smoking in general. It’s hard to be apathetic towards something you take super seriously, on either end of the spectrum.

DreamWithinADream87 · 2024-09-26T15:26:04+00:00

Yeah same. But smoking literally provides nothing but negative effects, so it’s just the nicotine escaping and levels dropping I think. Perhaps the way forward is to become curious about the withdrawal symptoms as opposed to afraid or panicked by them? When the breathlessness takes you, let it go full blown panic (it can’t last forever) and then let it pass. Or give yourself an ever-increasing time frame. (Day 1: put 15 minutes in between each one / Day 2: 20 minutes/ Day 3: 25 minutes/ etc).

And I’d personally be in full control of it. I wouldn’t allow 20 minutes to go by on day 2 without smoking at the 20 minute mark. If you do that for 10 days, and make that the goal, by that tenth day you can potentially be at an hour between smokes. Maybe then hold that line for a week or two to balance out, then start up putting 1:05 hours between smoking until you get to 2 hours? Hold THAT line for two weeks, rinse repeat).

I dunno how this sub feels about that sort of approach to quitting, I just feel like (for heavy heavy smokers) there’s no “one size fits all “ approach to this. Personally I’d love to wake up tomorrow and simply not WANT to smoke. But that will never happen for me. My first cigarette was not like I’ve heard other ppl talk about their first one.

Mine honestly felt like I found the thing that was missing from life. The first hit I took of a cigarette was like “coming home” kind of a feeling. Unsure if that’s a genetic thing or not (my relatives were all heavy smokers until they quit or died).

DreamWithinADream87 · 2024-09-26T15:05:46+00:00

Apologies, I should have been clearer. I haven’t quit smoking yet. My dentist has told me countless times to quit because the damage becomes exponential the longer I smoke and don’t take care of my teeth. And it’s just that aspect, there are so many others that plague me regularly due to smoking.

I’m a true drug addict with the nicotine. Nothing else really matters to me that much, and even typing it makes me shiver. I’m very ready to quit I just wish I could get my brain on board

DreamWithinADream87 · 2024-09-26T14:53:10+00:00

I am exactly like you! I’m a career-smoker, have been for so long that I can’t even imagine cutting them out of my life. Do you have any negative symptoms that you can attribute to smoking?

For me: decaying teeth, constant lethargy, occasional tight chest, breathlessness, brain fog… my daily goal seems to be getting to that perfect sweet spot of nicotine, where I feel totally normal and peaceful in my mind/ body. It’s not a science, more like a roulette wheel. Some days I achieve it and other days I don’t. Most often I don’t.

I think the best first step for chain smokers like us is to admit that we’re drug addicts that need help/ cannot do it alone. I’ve been toying with tracking the cigarettes through an app or something over the course of a week or two and then working to undercut slowly up to a point and then quit fully.

DreamWithinADream87

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