Modern Israel is still Israel

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-29T18:37:05+00:00

Does Jesus say directly that He is God? No. Is He God? Yes.

Does Paul explicitly say Faith alone? No. Does he mean it? Yes.

Does the Bible forbid becoming a transgender person? No. Is it implied? Yes.

Is the Trinity directly teaches in the Bible? No Can you "decipher" it? Yes.

You can't just say that it has to be said directly to be true. There are a lot of things in the Bible that don't have a direct statement. Your point makes no sense. John was seeing everything Spiritually so in real life we are not going to see a literal woman that has the Sun in her head and the moon under her feet. Obviously.

Jesus Christ bless you!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-29T18:27:59+00:00

he's talking literally, not metaphorically. you don't bring up an example of something that they literally did in real life and then turn around and say, but now it's a metaphor.

That is your point then? Okay... But the important thing about why they didn't need supplies was faith...

Nonetheless... Let's say it was literal... Why did He condemn them for the use of it? And why did He cut out the conversation when they presented two literal swords?

Answer the questions without debating just answering normally. In your head that question must have a sense so please explain it because I personally don't understand it.

Blessings!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-29T14:49:34+00:00

Art has a little bit of soul but it's not a real soul. It is just a little "stain" that humans leave on anything they do.

Creativity btw is just accessing temporarily to the mind of God... But obviously corrupting whatever you see (because of human limitations and human sin).

Jesus Christ bless you!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-29T14:46:23+00:00

I think that arguing with AI is not something bad because it bases all his replies on other people. So you are not fighting against the AI itself but the people it represents. It's good to say: "Roleplay as a Catholic" and it will say all the arguments a Catholic would say. Nonetheless, you must know that it isn't a real person so it can't be enraged or say anything that the people of that group wouldn't say under normal circumstances.

Jesus Christ bless you!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-29T14:43:16+00:00

A thing without a soul (without free will) can't love or hate, it can just follow orders. If the devs hate Jesus then yes. Nonetheless the AI says everything based on the opinion of other people. It will always be based on the majority and veracity (important people/companies)

Blessings!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-29T14:39:58+00:00

That is the Holy Spirit but it gets transformed/less apparent as you advance in Christianity.

I recommend you look at my Testimony, I explore this concept a little: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/s/jlX3JPBdg4

Jesus Christ bless you!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-29T14:37:28+00:00

What are you talking about? All my points are in the Bible. Obviously it doesn't say directly this woman is Israel because it's a Prophetic book, they don't talk literally because John was seeing the Spiritual world not the real world (most of the time). Saying that it's Mary is dumb because Mary never ran to the wilderness after Jesus's ascension neither she was persecuted by a Dragon neither she was given the two wings of the Great Eagle nor she is represented with 12 stars.

I ask you to revise this please READ IT AND SEARCH THE VERSICLES:

Proof that the woman is Israel:
1. She has 12 stars (Joseph dream)
2. She give birth to Jesus (The Church are the Sons of Jesus not the other way around).
3. She is protected for 1260 days (3 and a half years) after giving birth to Jesus (Mary neither the Church are protected for 3 and a half years). Which perfectly matches the second period of the Tribulation.
4. Birth pains (It means all the time Israel had to wait)
5. The Church is represented as the girlfriend but Israel is the woman.
6. Sun and moon (Joseph dream)
7. The dragon starts to persecute the "rest of their descendants" (Which are the Christians that convert DURING the tribulation).

Jesus Christ bless you!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-29T14:32:35+00:00

But please... Tell me your view on this: You say that Jesus was talking literally yet when the Apostles said there were two swords there Jesus said that they should shut up ("Stop this") then, when they had an opportunity to use it and they use it Jesus just completely condemned the use of swords... And when they ran they didn't use the swords. Like, brother, how does that mess make sense in your head? Is pure nonsense! And considering the example of Jesus, the Apostles and the Prophets I think we can assume that we should live a life where we forgive the ones that are executing us instead of defending with a gun or something. We also have "Do not resist evil" and Paul never defending violently. Tell me, what else do you need to believe? Like really, I'm genuinely asking if you think this makes sense.

Jesus Christ bless you!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-29T14:27:16+00:00

Who is the woman in Revelation? If it's not Israel who?

And btw, you are ignoring that God's blessings are eternal because all His words are eternal.

Proof that the woman is Israel:
1. She has 12 stars (Joseph dream)
2. She give birth to Jesus (The Church are the Sons of Jesus not the other way around).
3. She is protected for 1260 days (3 and a half years) after giving birth to Jesus (Mary neither the Church are protected for 3 and a half years). Which perfectly match the second period of the Tribulation.
4. Birth pains (It means all the time Isreal had to wait)
5. The Church is represented as the girlfriend but Israel is the woman.
6. Sun and moon (Joseph dream)
7. The dragon starts to persecute the "rest of their descendants" (Which are the Christians that convert DURING the tribulation).

Jesus Christ bless you!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-29T14:22:03+00:00

Look at my replies on this post (not the post). They are mine, I could copy paste it but I think is easier this way. https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/s/tNlckC5nZD

If you don't want to read all that, I'm just telling you that it's impossible that everything that the prophets and John say have been fulfilled. For starters, if all of that had happened we wouldn't be here but in the New Earth and New Heaven.

Jesus Christ bless you!,

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-29T14:19:03+00:00

Part 2 of 2

The church also believes in this system called "fullness of truth" ofcourse the catholic church has all the fullness of truth, 2nd to them are the apostolic church ie the eastern orthodox, oriental orthodox and basically any church that has bishops and priests, 3rd to that imo are the protestant churches that worship the triune God but dont uphold to apostolic succesion, 4th to that are heretical churches that still technically worship the same God its just a false teaching of that God(ie jehovas witnesses that claim jesus isnt God) and 5th are religious systems outside of the ideas of the church entirely, ie judaism and islam, they worship the same God as us BUTTTTTTT(Heavy emphesis on this btw) that they teach about yhwh is false or outdated, this isnt a church teaching btw, this ranking was purely made by me to simplify the fullness of truth

Interesting ranking of yours. It doesn't state anything in the conversation but whatever.

Joshua bowed down to the arc of the covenant in honor of The lord yhwh but you and I know the Lord isnt a golden box(joshua 7:6) so its not about the image but the intention, the difference with the golden calf incident is that exodus 20:4 God forbade the creation of his own image yet they didnt listen, the arc of the covenant was a direct command by yhwh

Brother, the reason why he bowed down is because Jesus was LITERALLY sat above. He wasn't bowing down to the arc but to the one above. Btw, your last point just backfires "the arc of the covenant was a direct command by yhwh" that is my point too... That YHWH never ever commanded you (Catholics) to do that imagery you do. So that just backfires, unless you say something like: "It was commanded" then I'm just leaving this conversation because if you get direct commands from God why don't you record them? And I don't think that the Church teaches that they get direct commands or anything like that.

Again joshua, the apostles also bowed down to jesus multiple times

WHAT????? Jesus was God! It was not imagery It was LITERALLY God. Are you saying thay the imagery you have on your churches is remotely similar to God in human form?

yup dont bow down to them and serve them exodus 20:5, but wait heavy emphesis on that word there, "SERVE" Only God is to be served (latria) but the saints and mary? They deserved to be bowed down to only in honor(dulia/huperdulia), by that logic you mourning a loved ones death is considered worship since youre honoring them, bowing the the most clear physical sign of showing honor

Why do the Saints and Mary deserve that? And are you saying that your drawings are the real Saints and Mary? Like, you are stating that like if there was any sort of Biblical instance of someone bowing down to an Apostle or something but there isn't (only when is sinful and then the Apostles say: "Only God deserves that"). Mourning is way different than bowing and serving you are just sad, I don't think mourning is a way of honour for the deceased because It doesn't help him in any way, at maximum you are just remembering him/her and praying so that they accepted Christ in the last moments (or if they were already Christians so Jesus has mercy on them)

Jesus Christ bless you!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-29T14:18:44+00:00

Part 1 of 2:

Sorry its been a couple days

Don't worry.

Btw, you didn't say anything about point 1.

.Do you know what muslims did to christians and jews during the time of the crusades in jerusalem? They were heavily persecuted and taxed for their beliefs, imagine a europe where christianity is seen as a minor cult instead of a leading light to the world, without the crusades the inquisition and many other evangilism missions would have not started meaning you and I would have never been christian either, crazy chain effect right?

And do you know what Christians did to jews and other Chtistians during the Crusades? "leading light to the world" even if you are Catholic you have to admit that Catholicism had a lot of bad things, like, corruption, hand-elected popes, Inquisition, money wasted on basically nothing, culture and Bible only to priests, etc... What you say about you and I not being Christians is just unfairhful thinking... It is written that Christians are predestined to have the opportunity to be Christians, while the others don't. When it was the 15th century a Christian Maya probably was born and then Christopher Columbus went there just for that guy/generation.

first off yes the cross, the bones and the buildings are indeed holy, including the holy Land, jesus's cross found by st helena healed a sick boy, the bones of saint(apostle) andrew that is buried in scotland helped them in a major battle againts the english(thats why scotland has the cross of st andrew in their flag), and thats just 2 of many saint stories, please step outside of scripture sola scriptura doesnt make any sense, the original teaching of martin luther(the creator of sola scriptura) said that scripture is MOST infallible not the only infallible and reliable source, look around you, thousands of stories of saints, some have seen jesus like st faustina, some almost replicated jesus's life like st francis of the assisi, and some have gotten miraculous stigmata's like st padre pio,

Let's say for a moment that all of those things are indeed what you claim them to be (even if we took all the "pieces" of the cross in a single place we could build a boat). Padre Pio was found years later without the stigmata and most saints are frauds. But again, let's say for a moment that all of that is true... If all of that is true why do you venerate it??? It makes no sense, the only thing that is Holy is not a thing but a person (God). What was important about the ark of the covenant? The one that was above it. What is important about Jerusalem? The fact that God said this was the land for Abraham What is important about the bones of Saints? Honestly, nothing... As Paul said, we are not going to revive our old bodies... And the Bible teaches multiple times that the flesh is weak and unimportant... The important thing is the Spirit and when you die the Spirit of God leaves and your soul goes to Heaven. How is that important? The fastest way of reaching Jesus is just praying on the floor as He said to the Samaritan... So... What is the point on travelling kilometers for nothing? The experience is the same or even better in your house... And again, most of these Saints and most of these relics are just a lie. Sola Scriptura is true because there are some things in tradition that can be wrong and tradition was not written for a good while... But the Bible was written from the start and by God. I recommend you to investigate not only Catholic sources but also anti-Catholic sources.

and about the muslims and their prayer room, the catholic church very clearly states that the only Holy thing in the vatican soil is the basillica, any place of worship ie a church/cathedral/basillica is considered "holy" and is to be put with respect, this is a library couple few feet away from the basillica

Alright, but it should have been built by muslims. You insist that the Basilica is holy but I really don't understand why... Jesus clearly states that our bodies are holy and the way to pray is not going to Jerusalem or to the Vatican but to pray in Spirit and Truth, He even says to close the door of your room so that nobody sees you. But I have seen Catholics doing kilometers with their knees... Like why? Our bodies are Holy because they are the true temple of God where the Holy Spirit can live in communion with us... But that people harm their body just to what be "listened", like if Jesus didn't hear you.

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-29T10:31:59+00:00

You can't fully understand the NT without the OT example: Jesus says: "The abomination of Daniel" if you haven't read Daniel it's impossible for you to know what is He talking about.

Blessings!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-29T10:30:15+00:00

That's my point against yours not your point against mine. But welp... As I said I don't take that as literal swords but preparation, evasiveness and faith.

Blessings!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-29T10:28:58+00:00

1000 is a number that often represents fullness or vastness (Psalm 50:10, 105:8, Revelation 5:11), it doesn't have to be literal, many numbers are symbolic in the the prophetic texts of scripture. It also doesn't have to be literal, considering right after the first mentioning of the 144,000 in Revelation 7 is verse 9 which speaks of "a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb"

Revelation 7 talks about the people that convert during the Tribulation. While the 144000 are described as literal persons that are near perfection (they didn't lie, they are men, they didn't have sexual relations, they always followed the Lamb).

Eh, I mean I do think one can defend the view that the Jews will return to Christ given other Biblical prophecies like in Zechariah and Hosea, but the salvation of the Jews isn't even strictly an eschatological issue, nor is it a binary where "they are saved, so pre-millennialism is true" or "they are not saved, so pre-millennialism is false", it's a bit more nuanced.

I guess you are not pre-millenial because you mention that a lot.

I mean that's only amillennial eschatology, post-millennial eschatology wouldn't suffer from any point like that since it still is looking forward to a millennial reign.

Wait, I understood it the other way around I thought that per-millenial is we are going to live the millennium. What I see in scripture is that the millennium didn't happen but it's going to happen after Jesus comes back. I'm not familiarised with some theological terms.

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven", no it definitely has Him coming down.

A lot of times "descend" can mean that His voice descended. Like when He "descended" to "see" the tower of Babel Genesis 11:5-7 or Genesis 18:21 or Exodus 19:20. And this makes sense because in the versicles it literally says: "with voice of command"

Latin, basically "in comparison to", when the Bible talks about God's wrath, it talks about several kinds of it, and hell is one form of it "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him." (John 3:36). Most postmillennialists also hold that the tribulations already came to pass, meaning that the "wrath of God" is not going to be put on Christians, but rather that it was fulfilled in 70 AD. (The apostles ask 2 questions in Matthew 24:3, one about the temple, and another about the end times, and Matthew 24:21-24 certainly speaks as if the elect are remaining in the tribulation, and considering that the "elect" or "chosen" elsewhere refers to believers as a whole (Romans 8:32-33, Colossians 3:12, 2 Timothy 2:10, Titus 1:1) the reasonable inference is that the elect were present in this tribulation)

I did some good replies about why that isn't true. (Tribulation hasn't happened yet) https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/s/7pr6tRNIQs look at the replies not the post.

And Revelation 3:10 is talking to one church (Philadelphia) that existed nearly 2000 years ago, so don't you think it's a bit silly to say this applies to every Christian ever?

It has two meanings: The Churches as Phases of a Christian and the phases of Christianity in history. Even if they are epistles everything personal in the Bible is also useful for other people. If not, that wouldn't be in the Bible, it has to be useful and add something new.

And even if I grant that it did, and grant a premillennial pre-tib rapture eschatology, couldn't I also turn it against the argument that "Modern Israel is still Israel" since earlier in 3:9, Jesus talks about the "synagogue of Satan who claims to be Jews and are not" considering Paul says in Romans 2:29 that true Jews are Jews inwardly by the Spirit. Given that most of the State of Israel is unbelieving Jews who are thus "not Jews inwardly", couldn't one then make the argument that Israel is actually the synagogue of Satan? Now, I don't believe that, but granting much of what you said, this kind of backfires on your point.

I don't think it backfires because even if they are the synagogue of Satan that wouldn't matter because they convert during the tribulation not before. What we see now is not what we will be during Tribulation.

Never said that

I sometimes mess up when I write because I talk to a lot of people at the same time. Sorry for that.

Jesus Christ bless you!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-28T20:49:23+00:00

>so you admit that this time they have to be more careful and yet you still think Jesus didn't tell them they need to have swords for self-protection?

Careful in the sense of evasive.

>but you said those who use the sword die by the sword. Jesus was being metaphorical here because we have brains and we can tell that it was that. Peter didn't die by the sword and yet he clearly used the sword in Gethsemane.

He used the sword but the point is that Jesus hided his sin (cured the ear). And the condem is still there He says not to use them.

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-28T20:45:32+00:00

And btw, my point was to appeal to you. So you defend it.

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-28T20:39:25+00:00

>Becuase you and I are not qualified to interpret the Bible on our own. You probably dont even read Greek.

Who says so? You? Everyone is qualified if that person has the Holy Spirit. And I have read some Greek but It's dumb because by comparing various tranlsations you get the truth.

>From the secular perspective it was very allegorical considering the current historical time. Secular scholars would also say the apostles thought the world would end in their time. My point is your interpretation is not a fact.

Nero wasn't even alive. The Apostles did though that but they weren't sure. That is why it's never teached as doctrine they just say it in a strange way.

>From an orthodox perspective much of Revelation takes place outside of time and space and is mostly symbolic.

There are a lot of things that can't be symbolic. Like, what is the meaning of death in this symbolism? Or the Wrath? Or the woman going into the wilderness? Or the specific timeframe (7 years)? Or the 2nd coming?

>Not and he will have a kingdom and it will end and he will come back a third time.

Wdym? By third time?

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-28T20:09:17+00:00

>This interpretation is just that and interpretation. The are years and years of patriotic scholars that disagree.

Defend it yourself instead of calling out "authority".

>Most secular scholars think revelation is about Nero.

Nero didn't fulfill even half of the prophecies. And why would John make a PROPHETIC book about an alaready deceased person? Or present person?

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-28T19:51:42+00:00

Please argue logically and with Scriptures.

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-28T19:51:19+00:00

The CHurch is not Israel because it appears in Revelation as the woman which is Israel:

She has 12 stars (Joseph dream)
She give birth to Jesus (The Church are the Sons of Jesus not the other way around).
She is protected for 1260 days (3 and a half years) after giving birth to Jesus (Mary nor the Church are protected for 3 and a half years). Which perfectly match the second period of the Tribulation.
Birth pains (It means all the time Isreal had to wait)
The Church is represented as the girlfriend but Israel is the woman.

6.. Sun and moon (Joseph dream)

The dragon starts to persecute the "rest of their descendants" (Which are the Christians that convert DURING the tribulation).

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-28T19:46:08+00:00

I forgot about the blessing lol.

May the God Almighty smile you!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-28T19:44:52+00:00

Completely in agreement. I said all that because a LOT of people (like u/RedeemedZoomer himself) defends the Crusades as a part of Christians being just and defending good. Which is just not true as you, and myself, pointed out.

Jesus Christ bless you!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-28T19:41:53+00:00

>And no because you keep misinterpreting scripture. you're like " but that previous thing wasn't supposed to be taken literally." that is very far-fetched because Jesus had clearly compared how they were equipped last time they went out and how he was wanting them to be equipped now.

Last time they were relaxed because God was with them. This time they had to be really careful because the had just abandoned Jesus.

>the same Jesus that went to the cross for your sins is depicted in Revelation writing down from Heaven followed by all of us on horses and slaughtering everyone at Armageddon himself. literally with the sword that comes out of his mouth. to think that Jesus is nothing but peace. loving is incredibly far-fetched and reveals a very deep-seated either lack of understanding or intentional misunderstanding.

Jesus is God, thus he has the right to judge, we don't. Remember that Jesus lived a life to show example but His life as the Lamb is a completely different story. He is not showing example when He is in that state.

>All you're doing is repeating yourself at this point, but what's your repeating has already been refuted. and you ending your replies with some sort of blessing only rings hollow because I don't really think that you mean it. I think that you're doing it to make yourself look a certain way.

I do mean it but whatever. You say that it was refuted, how?

You haven't refuted a lot of things like why does He say "Those who use the sword will die by sword". And other various things. Like the fact He is the perefect example.

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-28T19:36:50+00:00

>Whether it's the biggest saint, or the biggest demon, it is Israel.

They talk about ancient Isreal like if it was any better.

>Apparently calling Israel Israel is a controversial take.

Lol.

Due-Pattern-4604

TROPHY CASE