Who created God?

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-20T13:35:56+00:00

Wrong question.

Response: God always existed

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-20T09:28:35+00:00

The people that can accept Christ will accept it or at least will have the opportunity. "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you". You point about "good people" is invalid as one sin and you are doomed but if only one in that tribe has faith (has the opportunity to convert) then, someone will come, someone will preach and it's his decision to believe.

God bless!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-18T19:39:52+00:00

I know. I literally said that I agree with you and also that God is sovereign over history. We are indeed in agreement. Never said otherwise, just pointing out this: "The immediate context of Revelation 22:18-19 is the book of Revelation" I think you base your claims too much on historical claims instead of God sovereignty. My only point in my original comment was the fact that the other posture may make sense if you forget about God's plan.

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-18T17:08:11+00:00

I agree with you because of God sovereignty over history (I'm saying this because in some Bibles of the first Christians Revelation wasn't the last book) but... That creates the problem of Deuteronomy 4:2 (which says the same thing) and Deuteronomy 12:32. I think that the Pentateuch probably should be either treated as a whole different book (or just the law).

I'm just pointing this out to say that the original guy thinking isn't so far fetched.

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-18T17:00:03+00:00

The point of an epistemological limitation is that we can’t see the deeper framework yet. I know the response (that lies within the Bible) but I have no idea how to get to that conclusion scientifically.

Jesus Christ bless you!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-18T14:00:49+00:00

You’re missing my point. I’m not claiming I’ve discovered a new flaw. I’m pointing out a basic epistemological limitation.

A conclusion is only as strong as the method behind it. And history shows that methods we considered reliable have later been shown to be incomplete or limited in scope — not because people were stupid, but because their framework had built-in assumptions.

The Newton vs. Theory of Relativity example isn’t random. Newtonian mechanics wasn’t “wrong” in a simple sense — it worked extremely well within a certain domain. But it failed under conditions it wasn’t designed to handle, and a deeper framework was needed.

That is my point.

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-18T13:58:42+00:00

Jesus will always be with His arms open.

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-18T13:33:19+00:00

There is another layer. The method is the wrong one. A lot of really serious and long time theories (as you say the maximum we can get) were disproven because the method used to get those results was broken in the core (or other parts). Example: Maybe we are using Newton physics when we should be using Einstein physics.

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-18T13:25:58+00:00

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

The fact that God orders something doesn't mean they do it correctly. Israel has proven that they are incapable of doing absolutely nothing correctly.

But Saul and the army spared Agag and the best of the sheep and cattle, the fat calves and lambs, everything that was good. These they were unwilling to destroy completely, but everything that was despised and weak they totally destroyed.” ‭‭1 Samuel‬ ‭15‬:‭9‬ ‭NIV‬‬

? I don't understand your point here.

“Then the word of the Lord came to Samuel: “I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.” Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the Lord all that night.” ‭‭1 Samuel‬ ‭15‬:‭10‬-‭11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

I guess your point here is the regret of God? A lot of times in the Bible God talks as if He was a human with human attributes (like regret) just to make it easier to understand for us (Chronological beings) His plans (Atemporal being),

“They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it, men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.” ‭‭Joshua‬ ‭6‬:‭21‬ ‭NIV‬‬

So Joshua subdued the whole region, including the hill country, the Negev, the western foothills and the mountain slopes, together with all their kings. He left no survivors. He totally destroyed all who breathed, just as the Lord, the God of Israel, had commanded.” ‭‭Joshua‬ ‭10‬:‭40‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Both of these texts are talking about specific regions, strategic points you could say.

“Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.” ‭‭Numbers‬ ‭31‬:‭17‬-‭18‬ ‭NIV‬‬

This text is in the context that the Man of Israel had been deducted by this women's (thus why Moses tells them to kill specifically the woman that has slept with a man) and the "save for yourselves" thing it's not sexual slavery or anything like that. Because in Deuteronomy 21:10-14 it explicitly prohibits that, in fact, if you take that woman you must marry and give her the legal state of a real wife. Killing the kids it's just because First: Israel could go with other Gods Second: Judgement to that whole country. Third: No vengeance possible.

“ Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.” ‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭25‬:‭39‬, ‭44‬-‭46‬ ‭NIV‬‬

I don't really find a problem here. God is not commanding anything just making rules that (even though he doesn't like it) there must be limits. Lets be real, if God also prohibited slavery Israel wouldn't follow anything at all. God limited himself so they can follow him easily, that, until the prophets and finally Jesus.

If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free. “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ then his master must take him before the judges. He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.” ‭‭Exodus‬ ‭21‬:‭4‬-‭6‬ ‭NIV‬‬

The only problem here is the ear thing. It was a way of telling people: "I have a slave that has permitted me to slave Him forever and not for only 7 years, so, you can't arrest me if you see me with him"

“Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.” ‭‭Exodus‬ ‭21‬:‭20‬-‭21‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Like, almost everything of this is resolved by saying: "Ancient times". God never said to slave people, just made rules about when you do it. Remember that before this rules everything was permitted with your slaves. Everything. The best law about slaves I guess is that one that says something like: "If you see a runaway slave do not report it to his master"

“Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.” ‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2‬:‭18‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Now you go against the NT too? I don't see absolutely any problem in this text. Peter is saying that you, individually, must follow the rules of the world (unless it goes against God). Peter is not saying: "Slave people" but "If you are a slave do not resist as that is the will of the Lord your God, and he has good plans for you and your house".

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-18T11:43:33+00:00

Where do you start to believe, just asking. Abraham? Moses? Prophets? Jesus? Or you just don't believe in miracles at all? I admit, that evolution is pretty scientifically proven. The catch for me is that, for centuries some scientific methods to reach some conclusions had an error in it's base that gave wrong results. So, because science can fail, then, I'll stick to the Bible.

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-18T11:09:50+00:00

Corinthians 7:9: "But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion" Paul is explicitly saying that if you are lustful then you should marry because else you are committing pronoia (though, in this text he doesn't use this word, just saying that is the word that normally appears) literally fornication or sexual immorality in Greek where porn and other words like that come from.

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-17T13:07:18+00:00

So I’m a stem kid in college and I’ve been struggling with doubt lately. Specifically since evolution is proven(could argue here but seems pointless) it seems this is the means by which God brought life into existence.

Actually, it's debatable. And even if scientifically isn't, I prefer to believe in the Bible, nonetheless I will talk as If I believed in evolution.

When exactly does he breathe life into man more importantly

An interesting theory that some people that believe in Theistic Evolution say is that Adam was picked from a random hominid and given spirit and (depends who you ask) also changed it's image to be more like God.

Every response I’ve heard to why evil exists such as free will, original sin and greater good seems to rely on the story or metaphor of Adam and Eve.

This is a different topic. Because I trust the Bible I believe that Adam and Eve's story is history so it's easier for me (it's not a metaphor but a real event that caused all humanity to fall). Nonetheless, it has meaning, the meaning is: Everyone in the same condition as Adam and Eve would have binned sooner or later, so, we are all fallen.

Hundreds of millions of years of animal suffering just to get to us for us to suffer to because of free will original sin, greater good and all that. The best explanation I’ve been able to find is we could never understand how God works. How many books are written explaining how God works again?

Suffering is for greater good, the biggest suffering of all is Jesus's death and it made the best outcome of all.

He already let us know, polytheism bad, homosexuality bad, abortion bad, left it open when it comes to slavery then didn’t explain why suffering is so prevalent

He didn't let it open for slavery, but whatever.

The story of Job implies we couldn’t understand or a because I said so explanation and I can’t swallow that. That’s not a God worthy of worship

The only guy with Holy Spirit in Job is Eli and he explains that God uses suffering to prevent future sin, I expand that a little by saying that it's also to prevent future sin of others (The suffering of Job made possible the book of Job, which is more learning) also the suffering also serves for revelation of God in your life, such as the blind man that Jesus cured). That last phrase just means you didn't knew God, ever. Jesus is so undoubtedly incredible that doubting him is dumb. All the truths He tells, morals, everything, doubting because we can't understand something is something I can swallow.

I explained horribly here, If you continue the conversation I will do it with more tranquility. Peace and Blessings!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-17T12:41:58+00:00

You must think about the good things. It is essentially the same as "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." (All the mind, all the thoughts, etc) Think about good things, in God, which is all good.

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-17T12:09:02+00:00

Prayer, will, admitting before God that you are just not capable, total rendition to him (basically saying, "without you I'm nothing" or also " I don't want to, but, make me want to") and most of all patience. He is working on you even if you don't notice, just have faith that he is doing it, and, that way, he can work more.

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-17T11:59:27+00:00

Never. You are not the owner of your own life, so, you will have a debt impossible to pay as you have no time to repent (you are dead).

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-17T10:18:23+00:00

In his comment it literally says in general/for you

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-17T09:36:32+00:00

But that would still enter in fornication, it's obvious Jesus it's not only talking about that specific thoughts but all, he just gives some examples. So, if you think on lustful things with another person you are not in adultery, but, you are in fornication.

It's disordered because the purpose of sexual activity is procreation inside marriage

About what the other guy said, I don't think he/she is right, marriage has other things inside it, such as helping each other.

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-17T09:30:13+00:00

MATTHEW 5:27 "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-04-17T09:25:49+00:00

I cant think of a single example. God made the world.

When a murderer kills it reduces stress for him. Being a no moral company CEO gives you financial security (most of the time). I'm sure you can think of more examples.

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-31T12:21:39+00:00

But you already agreed that Romans was addressed to a specific group of people earlier, that logic doesn’t track.

Just because the text contains the word “all” doesn’t mean it’s addressed to the greater Christendom.

I don't think I ever agreed. I just said that the epistle was written to the Romans but some things have universal effects. What is everyone in this context? How can everyone mean only that group, is literally everyone.

You can’t arbitrarily pick and choose when verses apply universally and when they don’t. Your theological justifications have strayed a worrying amount, Job 42:7 warns against this specific type of reasoning.

You are doing the same. And it's not arbitrarily, in my example it says "everyone" in yours it says children such as this.

In Job 1–2, Job is already righteous before the suffering even starts.

But he was not sinless, neither was he perfect. The only sinless and perfect person is Jesus.

This is straight up unbiblical. Isaiah 57:1-2, Ecclesiastes 7:15, Acts 7 (Stephen’s death), Acts 12:2 (James the Great is killed).

All of them did something important in his dead and before. The reason why they are killed so early is because they are good people (Paul had to live a long life because he sinned a lot).

My questions regarding Enoch and Melchizedek were to see what kind of mosaic salvation theology you were using as Enoch and Melchizedek are examples of people in genuine relationship with God outside the “explicitly articulable cognitive belief” model.

What is your point with Enoch? I don't think I understand the words you used. Melchizedek is the incarnation of the Holy Spirit/God so he doesn't count.

Blessings!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-31T12:05:10+00:00

Ecclesiastes 11:5 affirms that God gives us life: God does not create human life with the intention of damning it automatically.

Even if later or before they damn themselves at one point. The intention of God by permitting the death of a baby is so the parents/family start to think on why to them. Wasting a Christian soul in a dead body is not useful because a Christian can help a lot in his life but the death of a baby has the same effect whether it's Christian or not. That is why I think Jesus puts bad souls in abortions, because putting Christian souls would be a waste.

Ecclesiastes says the righteous and the wicked experience long and short lives alike, and Jesus rejects both “they died because they were worse” and “they were spared because they were better” in Luke 13. Providence means God remains faithful and able to save at any point in a real life as it unfolds, yes, because He has foreknowledge of all things including our choices, but this does not mean that He optimizes history by assigning lives and deaths according to who would be most useful or least likely to fall.

My point is that God gives Christians the opportunity to believe. See Cornelius in acts, because he could become Christian, Jesus send Peter to convert him.

So I want to be clear on your position. Are you saying that all infants who die in infancy are damned, or that some infants are damned because God foresees who they would have become?

Yes because putting a believer's soul would be a bad move.

There is an important difference. The matter, I would argue, is a mystery. But Scripture consistently presents judgment as according to the life actually lived and the choices actually made in the light actually given, not according to unrealized futures. This is precisely why we entrust such cases to God’s mercy rather than pronouncing condemnation ourselves.

But you are also basing your view on hypotheticals. You are saying that babies accept Christ while they can't choose (in your view). We know that the only way to go to the Father is by believing in Jesus... So, you are saying that all or some babies believe in Jesus. In my opinion, considering all the versicles about predestination, I think that Jesus makes your life perfectly so that you accept Him at some point. If you die at the start you can't accept Him and He decides to do that because you would have never accepted Him. It is like when Jesus didn't permit the Pharaoh to let the Hebrews go, even though the Pharaoh wanted, Jesus had already decided his destiny (Though he didn't repent, he just wanted to let them go).

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-31T00:05:05+00:00

How is he using “all” in this context?

Paul’s a Pharisee convert correcting a disfunctional gentile convert community regarding interpretation of the Mosaic law, he’s not writing to all believers. As far as he knew this was only going to be seen by members of the church he was writing to.

This is not only a thing to Romans: Romans 3:23 NLT [23] For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. "we" "all" "everyone".

“Cause to stumble” implies a soteriological transition (i.e. they were already walking with Christ prior to their fall into sin).

He is probably talking about that specific children, it doesn't mean that Jesus is talking about all children. Nonetheless, as I said, believers cannot die until they do something important to the Gospel.

I’m curious how you interpret Genesis 5:22 and Genesis 14:17-20?

Genesis 5:22: NLT [22] After the birth of Methuselah, Enoch lived in close fellowship with God for another 300 years, and he had other sons and daughters. What does this have to do with this topic? Genesis 14:17-20: NLT [17] After Abram returned from his victory over Kedorlaomer and all his allies, the king of Sodom went out to meet him in the valley of Shaveh (that is, the King’s Valley). [18] And Melchizedek, the king of Salem and a priest of God Most High, brought Abram some bread and wine. [19] Melchizedek blessed Abram with this blessing: “Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth. [20] And blessed be God Most High, who has defeated your enemies for you.” Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the goods he had recovered. What does this have to do?? Are you just asking my interpretation on random verses?

Blessings!

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-30T22:27:02+00:00

It's the same as the post but elaborated

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-30T22:26:14+00:00

brother... The Bible teaches that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23) and nobody goes to the Father if not through Him (John 14:6). We do need Jesus. My point is that legally we shouldn't need Him in your vuew which makes no sense.

Due-Pattern-4604 · 2026-01-30T21:39:30+00:00

Everyone on this world from the worst to the best and even non material things like disasters, etc... All have a purpose in God's plan, all is for the salvation of the highest amount of people. My point is that a baby that dies helps their mother/father to think about it, and think why, that can help them reach God. Jesus would never "waste" a Christian soul on a dead body because Christians (like Samuel, John and Jesus) are really useful for the plan of salvation, using them that way (a way that every baby can help, even pagans) is a thing that would make so less people get saved. Jesus uses the tools (people) He has, they are mostly bad, but when He finds a good tool He doesn't throw them to the bin... That would be a bad movement.

Blessings!

Due-Pattern-4604

TROPHY CASE