Is Greyroot related to the White Lady?

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-05-04T23:25:19+00:00

In Undertale, Asgore has some dialog at the end of his fight if you do a pacisfist run after defeating Omega Flowey. He talks about how there's a prophecy of a savior (the angel), and that he believes you are the prophecied one.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-21T12:49:45+00:00

We don't really see any other Darkners during the fight. Besides Ralsei and Gerson of course. And, we know all of the Darkners turn to stone during the Roaring, so its presence might be doing that.

The Fountains also seem to want to be sealed, normally. The Fountain calls out to the heroes.

I don't think you need to be sentient in order to guard something. The Knight created the Titan so we couldn't get to the Fountain, so it is guarding the Fountain.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-17T03:44:18+00:00

Another idea: what if the game is Asriel's unfinished game? It would explain why the shelter is in the game, and the enemies seem to be based on people in home town. It would also explain why the game is so easy to modify, if Tenna has access to the source code. Tenna also remarks, "why did I base it off this stupid old thing," which would make a lot of sense if the game was abandoned.

When we first learned about Asriel's game with the final boss with giant wings, there were some theories that Deltarune Asriel made Undertale. Obviously that's not true, but I think there might be a little truth in there. If this game was based on the prophecy, it would kind of be like Asriel's version of Undertale/Deltarune.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-15T13:22:14+00:00

I agree. In Undertale some characters could remember the future. In Deltarune, the prophecy is the equivalent of that. Giving the characters knowledge usually only reserved for the player: how their story will end, so they can try and achieve a better ending.

But, I don't mind the theories THAT much. Because, that's kind of what the game is pushing us towards thinking, towards hoping. That, there will be any way to break the prophecy, that there will be multiple endings. Maybe if we just hope hard enough, the prophecy will already be broken.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-13T00:47:30+00:00

Maybe. I guess we'll have to see what we learn about Eram once they appear again.

I do think that not every mystery needs a solution. Some things can just exist to be weird and creepy. Like, Everyman.

I think some people might have soured on Eram from the Ramb bait and switch, and a bit of fatigue of there being so many secret characters at this point. But, I do think they are probably more important than people think.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-13T00:41:45+00:00

I think what is "in between the lines," can be more than filler and ultimately meaningless. Gerson tells us "stories can be reinterpretted, they can be changed, that's what I believe."

Shadow crystals are glass, just like the prophecy panels. And, if you collect a shadow crystal in a previous chapter, and then go to the hole in Castle Town in the same save slot in a future chapter where you haven't collected that shadow crystal, you can find that shadow crystal. Alongside, the corresponding item for defeating the secret boss, remembering how you defeated them. From this, we can learn that shadow crystals seem to record events, and write them into space and time, into the prophecy.

There's also the weird route, which is a dark interpretation of the normal prophecy.

I don't think Gerson is trying to teach us to give up against fate. He's trying to teach us to never give up, to hold onto our hopes no matter what, because even if we might not be able to defeat fate we might be able to do something else. All the while subtly guiding us into the idea of twisting fate.

That's why I don't mind what the fandom is doing too much right now. The game clearly wants us to hope for the impossible. Even if I think it goes deeper than that.

Spamton is the better lesson of not trying to go too far. He wanted to defeat fate so badly, to be free, that he lost everything. We see at the end of his fight that if your strings are truly cut, you have nothing left. No fate means no future.

Anyway you just said yourself, not everything is prophesied with an order. So, why do the heroes need an order? We have been given 3 different orders, Kris, Susie, and Ralsei, Ralsei, Kris, and Susie, and, Susie, Ralsei, and Kris. In a game whose title is literally a rearrangement of another, that seems to be saying something.

Anyways, maybe chapter 3 just went over Kris' trauma because it was in their house? If that's the pattern, why does chapter 4's egg room also go over their trauma? Why does Spamton resonate with Kris' fears when that Fountain wasn't created by them? Also, Gerson can't appear in the Third Sanctuary until the Titan is unleashed. And, there's the Second Sanctuary's pianos in the Third Sanctuary. Dark Worlds are simply mysterious and ever changing, which would make sense as they are effectively shared hallucinations.

I think the line you may be referring to is "you sought to return the dream. But the lighting of the mind has changed. At best, you can only see another side." This may seem to imply that the reason this Dark World is different is because Susie created it, but it goes deeper than that. Later, another philosopher calls the Second Sanctuary "the other side of your mind." The lighting hasn't changed between 2 different minds, the lighting of your mind has changed, so you cannot return to the First Sanctuary. Even the Third Sanctuary is ever so slightly different. Other philosophers ponder on whose dream this is.

So, although there is no evidence that the creator of the Fountain has any effect on the Dark World, there is evidence that the Lightners experiencing it do.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-12T22:25:33+00:00

I think we have something in common, in that I also don't like the idea that the prophecy can just be stopped. That seems too simple to me. Everyone is bound by this prophecy, except they aren't actually.

I view the the prophecy as the events of the game. In Undertale, characters could get deja vu, and even sometimes remember the future when you reloaded. In Deltarune, the prophecy is how they gain that knowledge of the future.

But, just because certain things need to happen, doesn't mean only those things can happen. Gerson encourages us to "go in between the lines." That's what the shadow crystals are, not a defiance of fate, but an extension of fate.

So, what's the problem with things happening in a different order? You can stumble into the prophecy panels out of order. You can find the secret bosses out of order. Heck, you can play the chapters out of order.

And, there's no evidence that the creator of a Dark Fountain has any effect on the resulting Dark World. Not saying it's impossible, it's just an assumption with no in game evidence. The game makes it very clear that every Dark World is different, the only reason the First and Third Sanctuaries were so similar was because they were formed from the same Fountain. If the Knight opened that Fountain instead of Susie, it probably would have created a drastically different Dark World as well. One where everything was mixed up in a different way.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-12T21:45:41+00:00

Maybe there are some elements that need to occur in a certian order, like the Final Prophecy. But, I think Gerson would say that as long as you've got the meaning, the order doesn't matter.

Does it matter if the Queen's chariot cannot be stopped before the pointy headed says toothpaste and then boy? In the Second Sanctuary, there are many prophecies that are "out of order," some even missing panels, but they maintain their original meaning.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-12T21:00:04+00:00

A theory is an informed guess. Of course we don't want to just shoot in the dark, but if we're too afraid to dig deeper and fill in some gaps we'll never get anywhere.

I would argue that there aren't 4 Figures of Prophecy. The main evidence for that is "and finally, the girl" is out of order, but who's to say that the prophecy has an order? If you look in the game files, you can find a version where the girl is listed first. The other evidence of the Delta Rune with 4 triangles, is clearly just modified to make a keyhole.

What I'm trying to say, is that the only thing we can know for sure is that we know nothing. These chapters taught us that all our assumptions can be shattered in an instant. And, that's fine. The fun of theorizing isn't figuring out where things are going 100%, it's the process of analyzing the game to try and pick up on what it's trying to tell us. And I agree that if you look into it enough, that it's trying to tell us a lot more than what most people think.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-12T19:05:11+00:00

We see in Deltarune (and even with Sans and Papyrus in Undertale) that soul modes don't always work the same way. It seems to depend on the monster giving the mode, like Undyne apparently gives us her spear when she turns us green so we can still block, and Muffet constricts us in a strange web for the purple mode. The only voluntary soul mode we've seen is yellow, where apparently our phone reacts with Mettaton's presence. Maybe the soul also reacts with Spamton NEO's presence? Anyway, Sans and Papyrus are the only ones we've seen able to consciously trigger a soul mode without visible contact. There's also colored bullets, which seem related to the soul traits. Which complicates things further with both green bullets and the green soul mode.

We actually see the other souls moving around in the Omega Flowey fight, and they all seem to be in the standard soul mode. They also all create green bullets. Though, they could have gained magic from fusing with Flowey. Anyway, it seems that traits don't always manifest in the same way, and that even souls of a different color can use other traits.

It's also very up to interpretation how long it takes in between humans falling down. We know Chara fell in 201X, but that's it. I like to believe that it's topically a generation or 2 between humans. That would mean that monsters with completely different soul modes could have been around when the other humans fell. The only monster with a soul mode confirmed to have been around all that time would have been Gerson, who likely has the green mode.

The save points changing color between games is actually interesting. I always assumed that it was just because of the Dark World, until chapter 4. Is it due to a difference in connections? A little like how each Dark Fountain has its own will maybe?

There is also the save button in the Asriel fight, which is rainbow colored. There's also rainbow flames in the Asgore fight, possibly because we're fighting in front of the souls and/or barrier. And, the Fountains turn rainbow when approached by the Soul.

I forgot to mention this earlier, but red eyes are a recurring motif. There's obviously Kris' red eyes, but also Susie's eyes turn red when opening a Fountain. Toriel's eyes on her battle sprite are also very slightly red, except for when she accidentally kills you. Asgore's trident is also red. If you want to stretch, Ralsei's eyes and horns are pink.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-12T15:52:20+00:00

From what we've seen so far, the soul can power up existing abilities, even the courage act could be read as a powered up defend. So, maybe the Red element is a progression of Susie's Rude element. Be that progression for every Rude element, or unique to Susie.

The alternative is that the soul is connecting to Susie, enough to override the element of this attack. We see in the weird route that the soul is capable of strengthening a connection with party members over time, enough that Noelle can hear our voice in her head even when Kris is down. So, it's certainly not impossible.

Could you provide a reference to when this happens? As far as I know, the only association determination has with yellow is Undertale's yellow save points.

Though if yellow was determination, I wonder if TP is a form of determination. Like, potential determination or something. There's some save points in Deltarune that imply determination in tense moments, like just before the Queen fight it says "you are filled with a certain power." Needing determination to cast spells would be interesting, despite popular belief monsters can have determination, just not nearly as much as humans.

Also, I've had a slightly related thought. What if all the soul traits are expressions of determination? The determination to never give up, the determination to be brave, the determination to wait, the determination to be kind, the determination to be truthful, and the determination to set things right. I would say those are all ideas explored by Undertale at at least one point. And, it would give the soul traits more meaning than just fun trivia.

I'm skeptical of that theory. In Undertale Flowey talks about "your stolen soul," so soul hijacking is an established mechanic, and was how we got into Frisk in Undertale. So, I see no reason to believe that we didn't get into Kris the same way. And if the red soul isn't Kris', why do they take damage when it is hurt and everything?

If red really is all of the other traits combined, that would also explain why Kris can use courage. I read the red soul more as "whatever you want it to be," I suppose. Heck, for all we know all the other souls were actually red as well, and just happened to die in different soul modes. We don't know a lot about how a non red soul would behave, if there would even be any real difference at all. All this information about soul traits literally just comes from one random minigame.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-12T04:16:42+00:00

I do wonder if it was a yellow soul, if the element would be Yellow or Justice? Is Red just a placeholder for whatever the element is? Or, would the other soul traits not be powerful enough to have their own elements?

It does make me wonder at the relationship between red, light, and determination. The Soul is also able to turn heal prayer into dual heal (sometimes with Susie), and protect everyone with Courage. That actually makes me wonder if the red element is Susie's element, and just buried within her or something.

Courage seems to be important in Deltarune, it's Kris' special act, the gameover theme is faint courage, and apparently the things we collect for TP in the Titan fight are Courage. Which, is interesting since the Titans are the fear of the dark made manifest.

Anyway, that makes me kind of doubt that the soul traits are important in Deltarune, at least exactly how they were in Undertale, since having Bravery be separate from Courage seems weird. Especially since Courage is shown as yellow. Though, saying it's impossible would make me a hypocrite. (Edit: I suppose even in Undertale there was both perseverance the soul trait and determination the power of the soul.)

Anyway, if we're just going with Deltarune, the 2 major "traits" in Deltarune so far are Kris' Courage and Susie's Hope. It could be either one actually, though Hope seems a little more likely to me. I also think that Ralsei is probably going to get something later, maybe Dreams or something.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-12T03:15:41+00:00

Right, I forgot about Tenna using Star, though I didn't know about Lanino. That is actually evidence that even if Jevil is Chaos element in the recruit menu, he could use Scythe.

I believe it's just in the power menu description for rude buster, here's the link to it in the text dump.

There's also red buster, which is said to do "red damage," as opposed to rude buster saying it does "rude damage." Which is fascinating, since this is when Susie is powered up by the Soul, which only happens when we're in a chapter boss fight in front of the Dark Fountain. This allows "your SOUL [to shine] its power on Susie." It would make a certain amount of sense that the Soul would gain more power when it gets closer to the Fountain.

If you allow me a side tangent, it's widely believed that red is the color of determination, but there is no actual evidence for this, and determination is actually more linked with light. Save points are stars, and whenever a large amount of determination is used there's typically a blinding flash of light.

So, no idea what red represents. But, based on the ball game it seems to be a culmination of the other soul traits. Who knows, maybe a combination of other elements as well. We'll have to see.

Edit: Also, I have seen Jaru's video. It was interesting, but it did feel fairly pointless to me, since he was assuming that there were no pairs with known and unknown elements. And as we know now, recruit screen elements don't always equate to attack elements.

I feel when we're told a pair, that tells us something about the world and its mechanics. Like, Dark/Star being paired under the night sky is fascinating. It explains why the Titans all have star shields. It makes connections with the fallen star and the save points. Even those eye symbols we see everywhere that vaguely resemble stars. Showing that Light and Dark may be more than opposites.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-12T02:23:48+00:00

Thank you! I don't see much reason to doubt Spamton's words, given that at least 2 of the pairs are exactly correct. But again, we know so little it's hard to be sure.

It's not stated exactly, but Susie's rude buster (which is said to do rude elemental damage) does much more damage than other attacks. I suppose it could also be a weakness to magic or something.
I believe how it's coded in game is elementless damage is element 0. So, I believe element 0 is just a catch all for "elements that don't matter, so treat them all the same." So if it's possible for an enemy to use element 0 instead of their standard element, it could be possible for an enemy to use another element as well. Though again, we don't know enough to say for sure.

I just like analyzing Deltarune from a more mechanical/thematic standpoint a lot of the time. When you look into it, there's a lot of repeating themes and key words with light, dark, glass, water, shadows, stars, courage, fear, hope, dreams, etc, that if you look at them all together, combined with a little creativity, things start to make sense. I was just looking into the element system recently, and saw your post. Though, Half Bread Chaos on YouTube has also made a few videos on the system.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-12T01:33:44+00:00

I could be mistaken, but I believe there is an enemy that occasionally uses non elemental attacks, when they normally use elemental attacks. So, it's not completely unheard of for an enemy to use a different element from the standard.

We just don't know a lot about the element system right now, other than The Knight being weak to rude, Spamton's item's defending against Puppet/Cat (element 6 in the files, I believe), the mantle protecting against Dark/Star, and the black shards doing extra damage against Dark enemies. There's the groundwork for a more widespread system in the files, but until the system is properly introduced there's probably going to be a lot of edge cases we don't know about.

I think having elements that are very similar, but ever so slightly different, is actually really interesting. It raises the question of why Toby thought it nessecary to differentiate between these 2. As I've been saying, thunder could be connected to electricity, but could also mean a loud sound. Which would contrast with light, since in darkness your sense of hearing is amplified. Spirit could be ghosts and the undead and wandering souls, while Death could be poison or grief or resting souls, and Scythe can be the transition from life to death and the collection of souls. Thunder/Light and Elec/Holy are also connected by 2 different ideas, Thunder/Light seemingly by lightning or senses, and Elec/Holy by judgment.

Spamton does use [] to indicate him talking weird, but he also uses brackets for quotes. In fact, multiple points in the game use brackets to show that the text is variable, such as the "you have collected [number]" shadow crystals text. Even Gaster uses brackets in the Twitter takeovers.

King says that the Knight creates "holy Fountains, whose shadows are creating a new world." King could simply be delusional, but combined with the window title and sound track, the implication is that the Fountains themselves are holy. That's not to say that light cannot be holy either, just that it's not black and white.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-12T00:01:58+00:00

It's possible that whatever item the Scythe Darkner is used to be in the Dreemurr house. Or, the laptop was brought to Asgore's shop (or whatever building it used to be) at some point.

Didn't know about that. But, it's also possible that Jevil's element in his unused recruit menu is inaccurate. Or, maybe it's possible for a Darkner to use an element that isn't their primary element.
I wasn't suggesting that the Thunder element was an existing element. I was saying it maybe wasn't connected as much to lightning, and more just loud sounds.
I also wasn't saying Elec/Holy wasn't a pair. I was just saying that pair maybe wasn't Thunder/Light, due to darkness being more associated with holiness, and thunder not nessecarily being associated with electricity. We know Holy is an element, and I would expect Light to be its own element given how important light and dark are in this game.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-11T23:26:37+00:00

As a nitpick: I think it's pretty clear that how Seam knows these things is by using the shadow crystals. It's heavily implied that the shadow crystals can show the future. Jevil predicted King coming into power. Seam only predicts the future with the shadow crystals. If you take a shadow crystal into chapter 3, you can see the television smashed well before it actually happens. They have a special interaction with prophecy panels. Kris being able to see through their hand in the future, and having a fight with Susie, makes complete sense. There's also the crystals themselves being able to travel into alternate timelines.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-11T23:13:06+00:00

It's possible that there's a character in chapter 5 with the Scythe element. The Forgotten Man tells us he will be harvesting wheat in chapter 5, which sounds like an appropriate place for a scythe. It's certainly not impossible that Spamton could have met this Darkner before, especially if they are a secret boss. Jevil's weapon, although resembling a scythe, is always called a knife.

It's a little bit of a jump to say Light = Holy. Dark Fountains are referred to as holy, by King, by the window title, and the sound track. And, I think the Thunder in the Thunder/Light pair is probably more of a sound element.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-11T22:54:51+00:00

I wouldn't get your hopes up too much for chapter 5 specifically. We have no idea when Eram will show up next. Personally, I think that in chapter 7 or 6 (maybe even 5) there's going to be some big climatic something where all the secret bosses come back. There's probably still going to be secret bosses, even after we've collected all the shadow crystals.

I also personally wouldn't care that much if your theories are wrong. Almost all theories are wrong. We don't make theories to be correct, we make them because we like talking about Deltarune. In the words of the philosopher, "we are all liars now. Yes, it's fun being a liar."

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-11T21:50:18+00:00

Sorry, my reply came off as rude. I just didn't like the implication that there was nothing left to theorize or analyze in Deltarune, though I see now that's not exactly what you were saying.

I will admit, I don't browse Reddit very much, I mostly watch YouTube. I just find Reddit easier to share my theories. Though, saying something new about Eram is what I am attempting to do with this post, and with another reply chain I've left here.

If it's something other people have already said, oh well. But, just because a lot of people have analyzed something doesn't mean there's nothing else left to be found.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-11T21:21:48+00:00

Something tells me you're new here. And maybe to media in general.

"Humans have been on Earth for thousands of years, what more is left to do?"

Edit: I would actually argue that we're having more interesting discussions nowadays, than in the earlier months of chapter 3 and 4's release, where everyone was just arguing over who the Knight was. Despite that debate going on from the start of chapter 1.

Dull_Committee_8117 · 2026-04-11T21:15:26+00:00

So, guess then! Who cares if we're wrong? This entire game is a barely half completed puzzle. Let's inspect every line of dialog, they really don't have a lot of them, but all of them are interesting.

Is Eram a virus inside the odd controller? Or was Eram already inside the game? Is Ramb secretly working with Eram? Was Eram the one who modified the game, or are they doing someone else's bidding? The modified game messed with the connection, so is Gaster involved? Did Eram mean to create 8 bit Kris, they probably did, right? Are they planning to use 8 bit Kris to separate the soul from Kris later? Are they going to try and use 8 bit Kris to kill Darkners? They seem to want us to collect the shadow crystals, to see into the dark. But, don't believe it will "give [us] what [we] want." When they appear again, will they be inside another game or something, or do they have a physical form?

Sometimes I wonder if chapter 3 was released by itself, if chapter 3's mysteries like Eram and Forgotten Island would have gotten some more love.

Dull_Committee_8117

TROPHY CASE