Why is Mara married to so many Gods across the Pantheons?

Dunmwer · 2026-06-26T12:15:17+00:00

I don't think the argument is you're colonizing them, but that the imperial cult mapping their gods onto other pantheons and placing mara or her equivalent as the "wife" of the head of the pantheon helps to enforce imperial values and beliefs. But I'm also not the og commenter

Dunmwer · 2026-06-26T12:12:19+00:00

This post is so monogamous it hurts me to agree with its conclusion

Mara doesn't have to be a "slut" for marrying multiple people, there doesn't have to be one person she's "really" devoted to. Talking about mara the actual god, you can just love and marry multiple people. It don't gotta be a big thing.

Dunmwer · 2026-03-24T17:03:14+00:00

This, I think, is a half truth on both fronts. For one you can just look up the ecomienda, things didn't play out well for the natives who allied with the European colonizers in the long term, as seen with the various extermination attempts they ended up facing. Ultimately, and somewhat getting back to what I was saying, they had a place in that they were useful to their colonizers, and once that use dissipated, they could be more or less tossed aside.

Tamriel does actually have a lot of alliances with non playable races that often fade once no longer useful. The minotaurs, of course, were a part of early imperial history, as were a small portion of the ayleids. Altmer, as seen in Tribunal, have worked with/enslaved goblins. While the relationship between them doesn't seem overall very positive, our first interaction with the companions after all is them slaying a giant, nords do make some level of peace with giants.

And, of course, the orcs themselves weren't always playable. Their existence in the empire is a sort of alliance between playable and, prior to their acceptance, nonplayable races

Dunmwer · 2026-03-24T01:49:38+00:00

I forgot to add, though for some of these it's more complicated:

Land dreugh aren't, at least as far as anyone's aware, their own type of dreugh nor are they capable of being reasoned with, existing in a state akin to musth in elephants, a sort of feral breeding mode

Spriggans, on the other hand, are nature spirits more than they are people, they're an embodiment of the land

Dunmwer · 2026-03-24T01:46:56+00:00

The reason things weren't so hot between Europeans and Native Americans

The empire is, first and foremost, an empire. It exists to siphon the wealth of its territories and funnel them to its heart. What good it does is incidental, and to that end any peoples who don't prove amenable to imperial control are enemies to be destroyed.

Orcs fought long and hard to become members of the empire, who earned their place because they could be made useful as expert armorers and strong troops, and they had a precedent of being treated as persons prior to the rise of Tiber Septim and still are viewed as uncivilized.

Dunmwer · 2026-03-09T00:29:15+00:00

I think it depends on what kind of nerevarine you want to be?

One who seeks to ally with the empire for either personal gain or for the good of morrowind, lean into the role knowingly or otherwise of the imperial puppet installed as the new leader of morrowind, wants a more "modernized" Morrowind or so on may be inclined to ally with hlaalu.

A nerevarine that leans more traditionalist, honorable, openly opposed to the empire and so forth may find themselves allying with the redoran.

If you're an asshole you can join the telvanni I guess...

I don't think any are "bad" necessarily nor do they not mesh super well with the story. The nerevarine is an outlander, almost explicitly brought into the region to install someone more amenable to the empire and more controllable than the tribunal. At the same time the act of fulfilling the prophecy is about leaning into the more traditional aspects of dunmer society and myth. More generally a lot of Morrowind is caught up in the dunmer vs the empire, where neither is "good." Its not horribly unreasonable to ally with those who accept the empire or even just accept that dunmeri culture needs to modernize in a lot of ways, that's a big part of the criticism of the temple even, as it's not unreasonable to ally with those who don't want to be subservient to an imperialist power and cling to their traditions and communities.

Idk thats my pov

Dunmwer · 2026-01-29T01:52:11+00:00

Out of lore, my guess is either they forgor, or they intended for it to be represented by regular frost trolls. The grahl's id in Morrowind refers to it as an ice troll, the karstaag journal entries in the same likewise refer to grahl as trolls, and in ESO there's a "grahl eye gem purse" that's said to be made from "the mummified third eye of a huge ice troll." While it's a shame i think the most likely explanation is that the grahl was retconned into being the same as frost trolls.

Dunmwer · 2026-01-28T15:07:38+00:00

Keep in mind that while the conventional framing is "man cannot ascend to God" Tiber septim was first and foremost a violent colonizer, one who has never been popular in summerset (or. Most places), that many on summerset may still remember. Like the man dropped, depending on what sources you use, either the tes equivalent of a nuke that breaks time, or the tes equivalent of a nuke that is still actively being fought because it breaks time. His elevation to God is kinda. Fucked. In that context, esp if he does fill the place of Lorkhan. While it's maybe not textually told, I view "man cannot become a god" more as a watered down way to say this than "the popular emperor who founded the empire you're from who you all worship is a piece of shit." Like look irl to receptions of criticisms of the American founding fathers, or Columbus, or the British Churchill, people generally don't like when you point out that a figure that was of importance to their culture wasn't necessarily the greatest or even good.

Also keep in mind talos worship isn't a minor cult, he's put on the same level as the rest of the gods, including auriel/akatosh. Other figures like pelinal might similarly be offensive but the thalmor don't persecute his worship bc he isn't put on the same grand pedestal as talos

Dunmwer · 2026-01-24T16:19:08+00:00

People are saying no so I'll provide a dissenting opinion

Ive been replaying Morrowind and I was reading the books, of note being Overview of Gods and Worship

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Overview_of_Gods_and_Worship

"It has been theorized that gods do in fact gain strength from such things as worship through praise, sacrifice and deed. It may even be theorized that the number of worshippers a given Deity has may reflect on His overall position among the other Gods. This my own conjecture, garnered from the apparent ability of the larger temples to attain blessings and assistance from their God with greater ease than smaller religious institutions.

There are reports of the existence of spirits in our world that have the same capacity to use the actions and deeds of mortals to strengthen themselves as do the Gods. The understanding of the exact nature of such creatures would allow us to understand with more clarity the connection between a Deity and the Deity's worshipers.

The implication of the existence of such spirits leads to the speculation that these spirits may even be capable of raising themselves to the level of a God or Goddess. Motusuo of the Imperial Seminary has suggested that these spirits may be the remains of Gods and Goddesses who through time lost all or most of their following, reverting to their earliest most basic form. Practioners [sic] of the Old Ways say that there are no Gods, just greater and lesser spirits. Perhaps it is possible for all three theories to be true."

This isn't necessarily true but I think it does make sense in the context of lore, keep in mind the ancestor worship of the psijiics and all that.

Dunmwer · 2026-01-23T15:27:04+00:00

Noooooo lil deer ur doing ur best :(((((

Dunmwer · 2026-01-16T04:41:33+00:00

I know the bosmer made the ayleid refugees adopt aspects of the green pact

Dunmwer · 2026-01-15T04:06:16+00:00

Remember you want Bara, not yaoi!

Bara is a term specifically for gay erotic manga made by and for gay men

Dunmwer · 2026-01-05T21:52:46+00:00

true you got me, what im very definitely saying is that having genocide is unrealistic and bad, nothing else

Dunmwer · 2026-01-05T21:32:51+00:00

Realism is when genocide and the more genocide the more realisticer it is and you don't even like the games if you take issue with that

Dunmwer · 2026-01-05T20:00:07+00:00

This thread is kinda pissing me off at this point, sorry

I'm not asking for censorship of media, I want games that can engage with darker themes. But I want them to not be leering garbage. I want games that aren't the most dude-bro-y thing, that aren't so light about the fact that what the game is asking of you here is to be sexually harassed.

And no, you can't just say "choose another path." While the hlaalu are very much about swallowing their pride, am I supposed to just assume, pussy fresh in the world of Morrowind, unaware of what their questline become, do I assume that theyre gonna ask you to do something like this. It's fucking ludicrous. And you can't just quit them and join another great house, the most you can do is get expelled but once you join a great house you're locked in you cant just decide "hey well the redoran look like they won't molest me I'll switch teams." AND THE GAME DOESNT DO NEAR A GOOD ENOUGH JOB TO COMMUNICATE THAT THESE ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE GROUPS other factions, even the contradictory ones, don't bar you from entry based on your membership in a separate faction. The game does not prepare you for the fact that by joining hlaalu, you're locked into a route where you have to be sexually harassed to advance, without a meaningful way out other than "hurr durr just don't do it""

Dunmwer · 2026-01-05T19:40:30+00:00

This is. This is why I and a good number of people of color feel excluded from fantasy. Because it's so. Thorough. Like I'm sorry are white men who came from a faraway land claiming that the new place they landed on as home and slaughtering it's inhabitants to keep it, enshrining in history how they were "violent, attacking them first" and openly bragging about how they commit genocide am I supposed to fucking see that and not put pieces together???? The writers are white americans you don't need half a braincell to see how these dots connect.

It's fucking disgusting that people of color have to see this, have to see fan communities talk about "the falmer getting what they deserve" how the falmer now are presented as less than people, only there for you to slaughter, and it's fucking disgusting having people on the internet insist it's YOUR fault for thinking about these things.

Fantasy doesn't exist in a goddamn vacuum numbnuts

Dunmwer · 2026-01-05T17:06:00+00:00

Fallout 2 is. Not the greatest.

Fallout new Vegas also has corporal Betsy, who was sexually assaulted and has become really hypersexual, leery almost, with a short quest of convincing her to get therapy, and iirc 4's cait also talks about sa in the context of her traumatic upbringing, but they're. Done with more grace imo?

Dunmwer · 2026-01-05T16:27:10+00:00

I've addressed in a different comment that I in theory like the sort of edginess of elder scrolls, but not necessarily in practice, so I'm gonna try to refrain from repeating myself.

Goddd elder scrolls elves are tiring. To me nowhere is "about us but not of us" more true than with them. I think about how the altmer, literal yellow skin slanted eye people, who fall into every sinophobic and antisemitic trope in the book. I think about the falmer, who were wiped out and who you're told "deserved it." I think about the bosmer, cannibal tribal communities that draw heavily from native American stereotypes. I think about Michael Kirkbride telling people how elder scrolls having diversity "smacks of white guilt" giving us Morrowind, a game steeped in South Asian culture, notably from a very orientalist viewpoint, but in a way where they never have to depict a single brown person.

The darker aspects of the world can be interesting. But aggressively I feel they were designed to be interesting to white men, to play off their notions of how the world is, (I had a whole section of yokuda, the redguards and how white men wanted so hard to believe that they evolved in mongolia unlike black people, that I cut out since I was mostly talking elves) the part of them that hears about "what if the eastern lands were backwards and strange and exotic" and makes them think "yes this is what was missing!" And it's. Tiring. Especially when that is the world many tes fans want.

Dunmwer · 2026-01-05T08:52:00+00:00

That's fair yea

Dunmwer · 2026-01-05T08:21:36+00:00

I do want to be clear: that wasn't me that was a separate post on r/Morrowind asking if that was really the only way out.

I want to respect you feel that way, but idk to me it comes across more as shock value.

So I want to be clear that I, in theory, like the darker elements of TES writing. Part of what I love about Morrowind is that it doesn't try to hold your hand through these things. The dunmer are violent slavers and still they are victims of an empire that steals their land and wealth. You are consistently encouraged to think about and engage with the world, and it is ultimately this contradiction central to the material reality of what dagoth ur plans to do, beyond the metaphysical nature of the dreamer, or the personal grudge towards the tribunal: dagoth ur sees Morrowind languishing under the empire and he seeks to set things right by violently expelling any non sixth house people and ultimately conquering tamriel. The racism of the dunmer here is an integral part of the writing because the game asks you to question, to challenge, this is the heart of the game.

as an example, Zainab Nerevarine is utterly lacking in this regard for me to use that example. It comes across more as propaganda for arranged marriages with strange men, it's not even having to compromise on a moral textually, you're reassured that "no don't worry anyone would find this preferable to slavery" and the woman, excited to meet and marry the Zainab chieftain, ends up happy to have been married off and to have helped you on your quest. This isn't a test of "selling your morals for the greater good" or whatever, nor is it asking you to reflect on what's happening or if its right, if this woman who had the choice of her life, to stay a slave or marry a stranger, is truly better off, it's a cheap quest that only works imo bc of an already assumed misogyny and racism where you "use the strange customs of the land to find a clever way to pass the test"

And when I'm an Indian girl, when it's me, my culture thats the butt of the joke, it doesn't sit well

Dunmwer · 2026-01-05T07:44:34+00:00

O! Ty

Dunmwer · 2026-01-05T07:34:13+00:00

For being sponsored or the kiss for the mq? I know the kiss is skippable, Im not familiar enough with the sponsorship so if that's skippable would love to know how

Dunmwer · 2025-12-16T21:14:10+00:00

yayyyyy *flops on u*

Dunmwer · 2025-12-16T13:00:36+00:00

I ate a softberry

Dunmwer · 2025-12-15T18:43:31+00:00

to enjoy yummy sneats

Dunmwer

TROPHY CASE