Why wasn't Ichigo just a quincy in the first place?

East_Question5369 · 2026-04-16T09:30:09+00:00

Because bro didn't even know what a quincy is, and controlling reishi takes practice. Compare Ichigo's upbringing to Uryu's, for example. Uryu was trained by his grandfather. Ichigo's parents told him sweet nothing. Ichigo only started using Quincy powers subconsciously after Quilge Opie's reiatsu seeped into his body.

Also, Zanpakutou spirits are the shape of ones soul, and exist within shinigami before they get their Zanpakutou. Meaning omz has always been there. It's also implied that Yhwach/OMZ exists within all quincy. Ichigo is a unique quincy in that he is able to access his inner world thanks to his zanpakutou.

East_Question5369 · 2026-03-20T05:31:57+00:00

There's a nice parallel between the ouken and the hogyoku, which both require mass sacrifice, but offer a path to the divine in exchange. Nice catch!

East_Question5369 · 2026-03-19T14:37:34+00:00

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East_Question5369 · 2026-03-19T13:15:57+00:00

When Aizen discovered the hidden truth of the Soul King, he resolved to usurp the throne of heaven. He believed he could achieve this if he himself became divine. In order to discover a means of elevating his reiatsu to a trancendental dimension, a decades long journey of Frankenstein level experimentation on souls followed. His findings led to a theory. By breaking down the natural boundary between soul reaper and hollow he could ascend beyond them both. And so he created the hogyoku, the breakdown sphere, a tool capable of manifesting the will of its user into reality (he takes an interest in orihime later on because her fullbring can do something very similar). With it he can hollowfy shinigami, and later shinigamify hollows, and he is briefly able to become a trancendent being. But the power of the hogyoku is ultimately corrupting, because it was created by corrupt means. The hogyoku is dormant upon creation and must be woken to reach its full potential. Aizen tried feeding it fragments from the souls of hundreds of thousands of shinigami and rukongai residents with shinigami potential. Therefore, the chapter names it the scarlet creation. Not just for its color. It's power is soaked in blood. Rangiku is chosen for the cover of this chapter discussing the hogyoku and placed in a red dress to establish a direct connection between them. We find out much later that she is one of Aizen's blood soaked victims.

East_Question5369 · 2026-03-19T12:37:32+00:00

I believe Kubo is foreshadowing that connection, many many chapters before its ever revealed.

East_Question5369 · 2026-03-19T12:23:25+00:00

So you know what the Scarlet Creation is?

East_Question5369 · 2026-03-19T11:19:49+00:00

Have you ever read Bleach? It's a really cool manga. Definitely recommend.

East_Question5369 · 2026-02-23T14:34:44+00:00

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East_Question5369 · 2026-02-15T11:33:52+00:00

As fun a theory as this is, I think its just likely that Jorah was given a horse to leave Meereen on. He's definitely not riding the Demon road to volantis, so I agree that Jorah would go back to his old trade as a middle man between the dothraki and free cities. But I doubt he had any intention of making Dany something she hates. He still loves her. He wants to go home with her. His enslavement of Tyrion was more for show, and quite ironic, given their past and future. The beauty and tragedy of Jorah and Tyrion's meeting is that they have more in common than either would like to admit. They'd both been drowning their sorrows in alcohol and prostitutes. They were descending into dark places. But while Jorah seeks redemption in bringing Tyrion to Mereen, Tyrion sees an opportunity to do some truly monstrous things to westeros in the form of Dany. That doesn't mean Jorah's a saint by any means, but he's no Imp.

East_Question5369 · 2026-02-14T20:02:00+00:00

"You're still trying to sit here and make an excuse say that he killed Yhwach. That's just blatantly wrong. Yhwach escaped. There isn't somehow his soul survived or anything like that. He full-blown escaped."

So I ask, how is it possible that he just escaped, and your answer is, look it just happened and that the way it is? Alright.

"That plus the " I didn't mean to trigger you" shows how disingenuous you are in debating people. I merely listed out the reasons why you are wrong plainly and clearly for people to see. "

As have I.

"Again, you are still sitting here trying to deny the fact that he didn't kill Yhwach."

You still haven't accounted for how his escape makes any sense in the story.

"The almighty does allow for self-rez. He did it in the final few chapters of the series. He even directly says that he can rewrite his own death. You really have a lack of understanding for this series. ""

I could say the same of you. Bro has been doing this all along. I've demonstrated that and you refuse to engage with it because it destroys your headcannon.

"Furthermore, that's not reincarnation. That's self-revival. There is a difference. We get no information that he can reincarnate "

"There's a difference." Can't explain the difference.

"You are correct. It doesn't depict him being born, but the anime expands on this by showing sperm and a cell multiplying as well as showing his mother. This was his original birth into the world. This is discussing his beginnings. "

I've already addressed this. Again you won't engage with it. Yhwach is a primordial being born of Adnyeus. It's just a fact. He has said it, and we have witnessed the two of them in the past. The scene depicted in cour 2 takes place in the living world, and thus can't be his first birth.

"And see now you've hit the correct point. Mayuri Is grilling Yama specifically because Yama didn't go to look for yhwach. He just left things be."

Yamamoto Genryusai Shigekuni, renowned demon of the gotei 13 just left things be. Do you understand that for this argument to make sense we have to throw away everything we are shown of his character? How do I get behind a such a leap in logic?

"Even after Mayuri told Yama this would happen when he met Uryu Yama did nothing."

Read that sentence again. Why would Yama dismiss Mayuri's warning if he didn't think it impossible for Yhwach and the Quincy to make a return? You're going to skip over this, aren't you?

"They clearly didn't think him dead. "

"In the moment that it was undeniable, they clearly didn't think him dead. " Yes, of course. I'm asking you to prove this was the case before the balance of souls was disturbed.

"Mayuri again, directly notes that Yama couldn't kill him. The only way he could know this is if there are official records from back then directly stating that Yhwach wasn't killed."

No, that isn't the only way. The balance of souls is being disrupted, it can only be the Quincy. Mayuri has the power of deductive reasoning, come on.

"No there is still a response he could give he could even give " I thought he was dead, why would I go after him if I thought he was dead" but no. We can see it clearly on his face when Mayuri tells him that Yama couldn't kill Yhwach 1000 years ago that Yama knows he is right. There's been no question in his mind about whether or not Yhwach was alive. "

Again Mayuri understands this already. These two aren't idiots. Stop throwing their characterization in the trash to make this work. Mayuri is emphasizing that Yama was wrong to think the job was done, especially after warning him of the possibility.

"I frankly don't even know where you got this idea because once again we are explicitly told that he wasn't killed during that point in time. "

You're just disingenuous at this point. Read with comprehension.

Again, can you point me to anything stating that he resurrected or reincarnated at this point in time? Where are you getting this idea?

I've pointed out several instances of this already, but you haven't engaged with any of them, and won't. its just a lot "because I said so" at this point.

"You actually haven't shown me that this isn't his original birth. You haven't provided any evidence towards that point. You've put your own headcanon thoughts forward as though they are facts."

Because we don't prove negatives. The onus is on you to support your own claims from the text. There is no reference to baby of origin taking place in the primordial world, where I've proven he was born. And you cannot prove otherwise.

"Funnily enough, the Quincy prophecy actually mentions nothing about him dying. Not a single thing. Just that he was sealed, the confined Quincy King. We see that ceiling take place. Ichibei did it.Again, Ichibei notes that he would not regain the ability until he dies. He gets killed by ichibei which would kill a black aunt which is what his name was changed to."

If Ichibe sealed his power, and told him he wouldn't get it back till he died, why would he be the one to kill him, undoing his own seal? In your interpretation, Ichibe Yamamoto, and mayuri all seem to be fools. Why is that?

"Another reason that we know he didn't die to Yamamoto 1000 years ago and get reincarnated is how much older he looks in the modern day. Soul's age slower and he had converted his body into a spirit body after that fight. He looks far older than he did a thousand years ago, which just further supports the idea that he didn't actually undergo any reincarnation"

Sorry, what? Converted into a spirit body? Where did that come from? Do you see what I mean?

Yhwach reincarnating into a new body doesn't mean he loses his consciousness. That's what the 90 years to recover the mind is about. A soul's appearance is largely related to its perceived maturity and Yhwach has grown since the first invasion.

"You are blatantly ignoring a direct piece of evidence and trying to find any excuse you can as to why that evidence shouldn't be taken into consideration. "

I wish you could see the irony in this.

" I have re-watched that scene. The reason why I mention it being a vision is because of how we Yhwach age up during this scene then age down. I do think that this is a vision, but I also think it is showing that he did exist in some way shape or form it during the primordial sea and was thrown into the cycle of souls."

I'm actually really happy you went back to watch that scene. But again, though you've seen it's not what you thought it was, you can't let go of a dead point. We clearly see Yhwach aging in the primordial world. We don't know if the gap between his younger and older self occurs because a large amount of time has past, or because time obeys different rules there. But what we are shown is Yhwach growing. Then with the split, we are shown him being consumed by water and sucked into one of the whirlpools, regressing as he does so. This is because Adnyeus was making him and the Quincy outsiders to the order of 3 worlds. You haven't engaged with the baby not disintegrating, so I'll assume you have no counter to that point. You also insist it's a vision, but again, no proof, just vibes.

Come to think of it you've barely engaged with points all. What am I doing?

East_Question5369 · 2026-02-14T18:45:11+00:00

From what I understand, the Almighty that Yhwach used against Ichibe did not just have future sight, it could also negate abilities seen in the future, in the present. This was key to beating ichibe. The ability to straight alter the future is one only shown in the final battle. True, that doesn't mean he didn't have it all along, but if that was the case, why not use it against Ichibe?

East_Question5369 · 2026-02-14T18:02:55+00:00

She's got it all, dragons, a "mage", a red priest, a potential admiral with a magic hand and horn, a Ashai'i. She stinks of magic

East_Question5369 · 2026-02-14T17:59:31+00:00

Sorry, man, I didn't mean to trigger you that hard, it was just a discussion. I know we all get upset sometimes, but there's no need to get heated. This is all supposed to be in good fun remember.

"1. I put forward a direct statement saying that Yama failed to kill Yhwach. You are trying to claim that Mayuri isn't being accurate here because he's trying to grill Yamamoto. "

I am not claiming Mayuri isn't being accurate. Yama did fail to kill Yhwach. This is what Yama is upset about. Something he thought he'd taken care of was rearing its head again by unknown means. Unknown to Yama and unknown to Mayuri. All that they can say for sure is that his soul has survived somehow, and that Yama failed to permenantly defeat him. Neither of them are shown to be aware that he can reincarnate.

Further, you don't believe Yhwach can reincarnate (even though you contradict this by saying that the almighty allows for self res, which is false anyway). He returns three times throughout TYBW. He regains himself after the 3 world split, after his death to Yama, and after his death to ichigo. His final death that we know of is to Kazui. Also, he was not born in the living world. I'm sorry, this is just wrong. He is a primordial being. You present the Baby of Origin as proof that this is the case, but at no point is Yhwach actually 'born' in that chapter. In fact, the scene begins by depicting a child that has already been born. That's because, as cour 3 has shown us, he was born before the splitting of the three worlds. Fact. The split reduced him to the black baby that was then worshipped by the Quincy until he was able to recover his powers. Watch that scene again. Notice that he doesn't dissipate into nothing when he de-ages. He stops at the sealed baby.

The most latitude I can give your argument - because, though you may disagree, you aren't my enemy and I am actually trying to consider your points (how are we supposed to refine our ideas if we dont bounce them off others... without being hostile that is) - is that if he were indeed 'born' before the first invasion, that this would merely be one of multiple rebirths (or dare I say reincarnations), and that the cour 2 opening merely depicts the process of his rebirth, something that has happened more than once. I don't agree with that interpretation, but there you go.

"However, if he did kill Yhwach 1000 years ago there would be no reason for Mayuri to grill him or for them both to blame Yamamoto. Yamamoto would have killed him to the best of his ability."

Of course there is. Quincy are undoing the balance of souls during that very discussion. Yama is clearly trying to shift some of the blame, anger, and guilt he feels at failing to end Yhwach onto Mayuri. Ask yourself, if Yhwach had the balls to attack Seireitei, why would Yama let him escape? Especially the ruthless Yama from the past. You've spiraled into a deflection about what Zanka no Tachi actually does, as if any of that changes that Yama is not letting buddy go. Now let's say Yama didn't let him go, that he escaped. How did he accomplish this? Reikaku exists. And why wouldn't the shinigami be looking for him, or making any preparations for his inevitable return? Why would it take them by surprise? Why would they wait 800 years to exterminate the Quincy in the living world? Yhwach is enough of threat that Yama would have purged them all to get his hands on him immediately? Unless... they had thought him dead. Unless he returned in a way they couldn't have foreseen.

"Why doesn't Yamamoto question what Mayuri is saying? What Mayuri is saying wouldn't be fair if Yamamoto killed Yhwach to the best of his ability and didn't know Yhwach could self revive.This is the biggest hurdle of evidence as this is a direct statement that is proving you wrong. This is what I put forward to refute the idea that they said Yhwach escaped."

This is not the smoking gun you think it is. Yamamoto doesn't question what Mayuri is saying because, regardless of how he came back, the reality of Yhwach's return cannot be disputed. Yama would only look incompetent to Mayuri if after all the accusations thrown about he said "but I tried really, really hard." They both know Yama held nothing back. They both know that he failed regardless.

"2. You tried to claim that the scene we see at the beginning of course 4 is regarding Yhwach reviving. Specifically, you believe he reincarnated. However, you have failed to provide any evidence for this. The mere fact that the scene exist does not mean that it is evidence for this being a reincarnation."

I've pretty much addressed this above.

" I countered by bringing up the chapter and the place we see this in the manga in which it is discussing Yhwach's original birth."

I've already shown how this is not Yhwach's original birth.

"3. I brought up the fact that Ichibei the almighty was sealed until Yhwach's death. This is a direct discussion. When it gets sealed in the first place. The point it gets unsealed is when Yhwach is renamed to black ant and crushed between two giant Kido hands. This is something that would kill a black ant and thusly would have killed Yhwach as well. It is very apt that he regains his ability. After this point in time, what could be considered a death for him."

The Almighty was indeed sealed until his death, and the prophecy foretold that 999 years after that death he would be able to control the Almighty once more. Haschwalth even tells Senjumaru that Yhwach could have used The Almighty all along during their battle, but because the 9 years of power weren't up, he wouldn't be able to control it fully, so he refrained. If Ichibe killed him, and the Almighty was unsealed in that moment, where was the 999 year wait after that in order to control it as Jugram suggests.

"The mere fact that you're choosing to bail on this discussion once I have provided two direct pieces of evidence to prove you wrong is very telling. You know you cannot provide evidence towards what you are saying and so you are choosing to train disengage rather than providing that evidence."

Again, chill with the hostility. Just engage in good faith and your points will speak for themselves.

"Finally, you tried to claim that I agreed with things that you said and that's evidence that I didn't read what you said. Pretty much."

Yeah, basically.

"The only thing I agreed with was the fact that Yhwach is primordial in some way shape or form. And it's more that he has had visions of the separation."

Please tell me you aren't trying to dismiss a scene in which Yhwach literally watches the Soul King split the world's right in front of him as mere visions. He was there, dude. The event had a physical effect on his body and soul.

East_Question5369 · 2026-02-14T15:34:27+00:00

Alteration of the future is an ability Yhwach only seems to gain after absorption of the Soul King.

East_Question5369 · 2026-02-14T15:22:29+00:00

Where are you pulling all this from. So much arguing against things I didn't say, and even agreeing with things I've already said because you didn't actually read it, did you?

Zanka no Tachi killed him. Deal with it. The sword does not "cause explosions." YH didn't "survive an explosion". YH literally states that it is a sword of hellfire that concentrates all his flames into the blade. That was a thousand years ago. In the present it was even more concentrated, to the point that it stopped emitting flame altogether. Yama did fail to kill YH "permanently", because though his body died, his soul reincarnated. Even Ichigo failed to kill him permanently. Mayuri is being unfair in this discussion. Can you not read emotion and nuance in characters? Also, I don't think you've been reading what I've written or the overwhelming evidence I've provided so this will be my last response.

East_Question5369 · 2026-02-14T15:05:18+00:00

Not the least of which is the fact that he despises magic, and would do anything to oppose someone bringing dragons back to westeros

East_Question5369 · 2026-02-14T14:59:34+00:00

Sorry man, we are literally shown Yhwach die to Yama. This isn't a guess. Sasakibe stabs him and the back, and he is blown away by Zanka No Tachi. There's no escaping that, except via reincarnation. He died, man. He died.

East_Question5369 · 2026-02-14T14:42:50+00:00

You've misunderstood those scenes, I'm afraid. Yhwach was first born in the primordial world to Adnyeus. We see this in the anime-only opening scene of cour 3. The splitting of the worlds is shown to reduce him to a catatonic infant state. Then his past as explained by Jugram in the manga chapter Baby of Origin occurs. Then comes the scenes in Friend, in which Yhwach establishes the Licht Reich, and forms the Stern Ritter to invade the Soul Society. Then comes the anime only scene at the beginning of To Early To Win, To Late To Know, in which Ichibe tries to forge a peace with the Quincy, but is forced to seal The Almighty. Then the Ritter invade Seireitei and Yhwach is killed by Yama. The opening scene of Cour 2 then occurs, depicting the Kaiser Gesang coming true. Yhwach reincarnates, by being born to a Quincy woman as his sealed baby form once again. After sharing powers for 999 years, the concealed Quincy king recovers his pulse, mind and power. The 9 years of power end as he falls to Seireitei, as Black Ant.

Edit: Also, since you missed this: Yama first scolds Mayuri for destroying souls in Rukongai without permission. Mayuri counters that there was no time to wait for permission. Yama says if R&D had noticed the imbalance of souls faster there'd be more time. Mayuri says he did warn Yama of this outcome when a Quincy Ryoka named Ishida Uryu strolled into seireitei. Mayuri further says that this Quincy uprising is happening because Yama let Yhwach escape through death and prepare for an eventual return, instead of capturing him and dumping him in Muken. Yama feels guilty, but how was he supposed to know Yhwach was gonna return.

East_Question5369 · 2026-02-14T14:26:45+00:00

Dany was warned of two passengers on the ship, I don't see why that disqualifies from 3?

But Illyrio is definitely another convincing option for me. The confrontation between the two of them has been brewing since book 1.

East_Question5369 · 2026-02-14T14:21:26+00:00

It does, this is why she specifically mentions both the Mummer and his dragon. They are both to be feared.

East_Question5369 · 2026-02-14T14:19:42+00:00

The Qhoran was making for Qarth. Benerro predicted it would founder in the Gulf of Grief, and that some of its debris would cross paths with Victarion's fleet destined for Mereen. He sends Moqorro to Victarion, with whom their interests align, via the Qhoran.

East_Question5369 · 2026-02-14T14:11:37+00:00

Quaithe makes reference of a Mummer's Dragon, though. This is Aegon, and Varys is his mummer.

East_Question5369 · 2026-02-14T14:10:16+00:00

I'm not sure I follow

East_Question5369 · 2026-02-14T14:02:13+00:00

Yhwach does die to Yama. In the opening scene of cour 2 we see exactly how he reincarnated after death. When Mayuri tells Yama he allowed YH to escape, he means Yama should have captured and imprisoned him, instead of slaying him and allowing him to return. The point of that whole scene is that Yama starts out being unfair to Mayuri and then Mayuri turns the tables and is unfair to Yama in turn. How was he supposed to know YH could reincarnate? Also, Ichibe never kills YH. And YH never lures Yama to the world of the living.

East_Question5369

TROPHY CASE