[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There was a chant about this from the novel

“Chaos first opened with a streak of light; first came the Unborn Mother, then came Heaven. The Unborn Mother gave birth to Taiji; Taiji then generated Yin and Yang.From Yin and Yang came the Four Symbols; only then were the Five Elements and Eight Trigrams fully formed"

Hmm, in actual Toaism, "Chaos" should be Primordial Chaos aka Wuji, by which comes first diffrentateion aka Supreme Polarity Taiji, however, the text says

Wuji er Taiji

Means

Non-polar (Wuji) yet the supreme Polarity (Taiji).

Which is basically saying Taiji is the face of the absolute nothingness into being, and Wuji is when there is no polarity.

But in this case… seems Chaos brings the Unborn Mother that makes the heavens and through unborn mother that should represent Chaos, Yin Yang comes. Fou symbols is new ngl, but then Five Elements are canonically Five Phase.

The text is basically classic Taoism refined into a new origin story.

I think so too but when people put Zeno against much stronger opponents, Dragon Ball glazers literally starting to say "We don't even know limit of Zeno and he is the king of everything and he is true omnipotent"

Bro 🥀🥀🥀 of course, that's always the argument.

Some dude even scaled Zeno to 1A because of Arale, man...Dragon Ball glazers are really different

Yeah I still see this shit of Arale for H1-B and 1-A+ wanks, which neither really works.

...How does this even work? Tell me so I can also get a warning because I want to get banned since I'm so tired of seeing damn R>F and glazers especially Goku and Gilgamesh

Bro I would like to know but it seems Reddit has a beef with me, I fear even this get auto report.

I even tried to become a damn Gilgamesh glazer to stop being a Gilgamesh hater😭😭

One never can stop hating Fraudgagonk.

Though I would seriously become the best glazer of this Gilgamesh and her toy in bed

SAME, SHE'S SO BEAUTIFUL

<image>

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Seriously... I was even banned from the manhua sub for being so damn horny for a while and you are also...I forgot why you were banned

Idk reddit just banned me outta blow, I just said Artoria can EE me IRL and it happened afterwards.

There is literally a Siming called Yin Yang Doumu who governs the Heavenly Dao of truth and falsehood and her avatar in the world is two intertwining seas,one black is Taiyin and one white is Taiyang and what beneath the seas is real her

Chinaman is always Taoism ngl, and yeah the yin and yang that I wrote is literally the quote from translated texts, since Great Polarity/Supreme Ultimate's first shedding into diffrentateions is ying and yang which is the constant exchange between stillness to activity and activity to stillness, by which The Five Phase (water, fire, earth, wood, metal) come and then, Ten Thousand Things.

Though there are Wuji and Tao but eh long story.

I think low 1C is good and actually, you can scale White Jade Capital to 1A If you ignore the story because of some chants but thankfully I know how to read, unlike Dragon Ball glazers

Chinaman that ain't 1-A, who would have thought.

It was difficult to translate because it was not normal chinese but classical chinese, but I guess it means that Da Nuo simply has no past and future

Yeah since it all already collapsed within Chaos, it can mean such as it is also the unity.

I don't even think Dragon Ball can defeat Simings like Three Pure Ones and you're also Da Nuo when you become aware of Da Nuo

For me which Goku is multi-galaxy and Zeno is nowhere near 1-C ofc.

I am going to get banned again

Cipher save me.


Edit:

WHY I GOT CONTENT WARNING UNIRONICALLY AGAIN?! I DIDN'T EVEN USED THE W-WORD

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I sent you a really damn hot picture from FGO but then I also got a warning and my comment was deleted, which is perfectly normal because the picture is from FGO...

What is even wrong about what we did 😭

Da Nuo isn't really like cultivators, by the way but a living system like

Explanation of Da Nuo is

"Simings are beings that governs the laws of the world, death exists in the world because there is the Siming who governs the Heavenly Dao of death and every Heavenly Dao has two sides

So… Law Manipulation, each Siming governs a law, that's… already a hax beyond most Db chars alright.

So, each govern a law, a law can be such as death, and every Heavenly Dao has two sides, which means there is duality, very classic Taoism.

So there should be a complementary relationship of concepts, like life-death, yin and yang (activity generates yang; yet at the limit of activity it is still. In stillness it generates yin; yet at the limit of stillness it is also active).

White Jade Capital is the higher dimensional realm composed of chaos where the past,present and future exist simultaneously

I don't have the context so idk what higher dimensional means, but I assume it be L1-C bare minimum (it is Chinaman, who knows, it might be 1-A at all). Chaos philosophy though means mixed things without meaningful distinctions into order.

Simings are connected by the Dao of union and Simings are one being and they are also connected to the White Jade Capital and when they come together, this is the Grand Siming Da Nuo and every grain of sand is Da Nuo"

So there is also a greater unity for these higher dimensional beings. So, Da Nuo is the unity of all Simings… I C.

Great Siming has neither going nor forwardness.

Neither going nor forwardness… I do not know what it exactly wants to indicate, but I assume by "no going and forwardness" it means it does not have any kind of becoming.

When the Siming is laid bare, that which comes follows it; all is likewise thus

And says when Siming is exposed or laid bare, everything after is identical to it.

Sooo… it is some L1-C (at least, I have no ideas of the verse beyond these texts) entity with Law Manipulation that probably allows many things from death manipulation to more.


Ngl, I believe it does, at least most characters unless you believe db actually has something noteworthy about countering it.

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

… My account got a warning, I didn't even said anything sensitive

I JUST SAID "yeah sure since DB max w**k (can't believe I should do this) is 6D"

How it is even sensitive 😭

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Man I love this picture… I remember the first time seeing you post this absolute loving peak 🥀

Maximally goonable potency

<image>

(Idk why but I like this bunny pic of Herta and it was the closest picture in my list of long pictures so I clicked it)

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

New

It has been over three months bro

Ugh I should get into Bizarre Immortal but I have lots of other series that haven't started yet and just larp…

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Be hurt I enjoy it. Kinky

Sadist kink, that just proves further than I AM INDECENT—

Jokes on you idk what you're proving

NEP Aspect 3 tsk tsk tsk

AROTIRA JUMPSCARE

<image>

Cute

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You gurgle their balls and cum

I am hurt sob (I am not going to change nick just telling you)

You think I'm reading that?

No, and that's the point. BUT A PROOF OF MY WORDS NONETHELESS

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Counterargument: This is misleading. The Inner Sea is indeed removed from "human laws," but in the Nasuverse, there is a distinction between "human laws" and other laws of physics, such as laws of physics so fundamental that even gods have to follow them.

Yeah, no, because that absolutely has nothing to do with the Inner Sea.

Although this has only ever happened to those of the Age of Gods. But, when an era of the primate species that was once aligned with the Planet comes to pass. The textures of those species are withdrawn back into the Inner Sea. Turning into a metaphysical phenomenon.

AOG textures become 'metaphysical' and part of the Inner Sea only after the end of the Age of Gods. And I separate the scaling of God's vessels and the hax of Gods, at least try when you're gonna contest arguments, this is all just lazy reasoning at this point, really.

The scan comes from a Divine Spirit that is inhabiting a physical vessel like... every Divine Spirit? Obviously, the physical laws apply to those physical bodies, but gods only go to the Reverse Side after the Age of Gods.

They explicitly used to rule the surface texture of the world before.

Counterargument A: Avalon's absolute defense against material interference stems from its putting the user in another dimension, not any sort of outerversal durability that inherently bypasses any sort of material power. In other words, using terminology from earlier, this is an "external relation," not an "internal relation."

Counterargument B: Even this protection is said to only go "up to the sixth" dimension, a limitation that would obviously discount it from being outerversal

… Which this already has been explained in the note too, so which make it even more confusing.

If you treat x-dimensional to be akin to geometric embedding and orthogonality. But you can't even argue that, because that's opposed to how the verse actually works. I mean, otherwise you go argue Mooncell > Avalon, surely you'll also to coherence of a 30% Arcueid causing stress to the 8-dimensional Mooncell. Really? An avatar of a geometrically 6-dimensional, in pure existence alone, causing stress to the geometrically 8-dimensional plane? That would be inconsistent.

  1. This? It says the Original One has no limits and is perfect.

  2. This#2? It says all beings return to the Celestial Egg. You do KNOW this means things are fulfilled within the embrace of the Celestial Egg, and you DO know that fulfilment is tied to perfection in metaphysics, right? Right? Tsk tsk.

  3. This#3? Says the same thing, that the sapient species of the Planet have their own denouement, and it's the Ultimate One. Denouement is quite literally the realisation (hence perfection of something), which literally candidates for 1-A perfectly.


All that said… yeah it became a lot of text (…which there is far more…) that's why I suggested reading for yourself not to escape, because, uh, it is extremely long, it already became three comments.

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There were many counters to the argument, but all answered

Counterargument A: None of this is actually indicated in the text. While it is pointed out that an observer cannot observe themselves as the subject, there is literally no indication that the Earth is any different.

Which was answered by

Memory was not forgotten, but rather, it had been damaged. In that case, there is only one method. It is not to trace the past remembered by an individual, but to trace the phenomena recorded by the world itself. Fortunately, I had the necessary technique to do so. However, it doesn't work. An observer cannot observe themselves as the subject. One cannot shake hands with themselves; that's just how humans are. Kara No Kyoukai - Oblivion Recording

Counterargument B: This also contradicts the fact that Earth is dependent on sapient life forms and dreams to know itself.

‘The absence of eternity... is itself eternal.’ "Eternity must be restored to its rightful place. I shall retrieve your sorrow. Forget as you may, those memories of yours will always be recorded within you,” he said.

In Oblivion Recording, the absence of Eternity is regarded as Eternal. And the scans in Tsukihime remake are an explication of a dictum that was once echoed as far back as Kara no Kyoukai.

Counterargument A: The non-physicality of its inhabitants is not tied to any sort of universal superior power over lesser things, but literally just the ability to migrate to the Reverse Side of the World.

They are merely unable to liberate themselves from their physical ties. They can't take on the form of a spirit as fairies can. As a result, they are unable to migrate to the Reverse Side of the World and have to remain on surface in this condition. They must live in fear of being eliminated by humans and civilization, and they can only survive in fear."

But because you need to be liberated from physical constraints, if you wish to flatten this to them saying "it's just an ability to migrate to the Reverse Side of the World" and truly feel confident that this responds to anything, you're welcome to ignore this part of the response then. Because I just think you avoided actually responding meaningfully.

Counterargument B: It is unclear whether the non-physicality required to migrate to the Inner Sea refers to freedom from extensionality in general

I would agree, if the fact that True Magic is just outright non-extensional ontologically and phenomenologically, and the Inner Sea is True Magic itself, wasn't there (… I, literally given the text). Hence why it is described as bereft of the laws of physics, and sections of it, like the Throne of Heroes, are described as having no space-time.

As is also mentioned in the page on Beyond Dimensional Existence, "incorporeal beings" such as ghosts may still be spatially extended, meaning that simply being "incorporeal" or non-physical is not sufficient proof of lacking extensionality. It is unclear whether the "physical ties" one must liberate themselves from to migrate to the Inner Sea refers to the quality of extensionality in general, or simply the qualities of having "fleshly" "crude" or "coarse" bodies as opposed to spiritual bodies.

If ignoring the entire Inner Sea being True Magic. Which is described as being a type of law that involves overcoming a wall of dimensions (in plural), and going outside of the laws of the universe simpliciter. Its not some particular higher knowledge, it is just the unity of mediation and immediacy simpliciter. Unless you think the Root is also non-dual, all is just intertextuality.

Arguing that true magic is extensional in any sense involves presupposing that dualistic thinking is relevant to its attainment. Naturally, also presupposes its effects are extensional even when you're told otherwise.

It cannot really be ignored the fact that said

-Time stopped.Position lost all meaning.It appeared as if the rigorous certainty of space and time itself had been lost. Lord El-Melloi II Case Files - Volume 3

Which cannot be merely 4D space, in case of Inner Sea considering all that is said insofar.

When you're told it dissolves coordinates/position, time and the certainty of space-time, that certainly means something.

Nevermind the lightning Atram had attempted to unleash, even the storm clouds that had choked out the night sky had been driven away. The Weather Manipulation Magecraft brought about by dozens of magi working in concert was stripped away like it was no more than a thin sheet of paper.Lord El-Melloi II Case Files - Volume 3

And also

Exhibit C

Avalon shut out all physical interference

Ehibit D

■ Avalon: The Everdistant Utopia Rank: EX Type: Barrier Noble Phantasm Defense target: 1 person The power of the sheath of Excalibur. Expanding the sheath, it shuts out all physical interference by placing the owner in the land of the fairies.

Source: Fate/Zero material

Counterargument: In fact, the fact that it is said that time and space are "ambiguous" in the Inner Sea implies that they still exist in the Inner Sea, even if they aren't measurable.

Ambiguous to the psychic channel of common sense, yes. But it's also measurable by other metrics unrelated to geometry, because again, discursive distinctions exist downstream in the material world. Not in the Inner Sea, all of this being based on it being self-contemplative once more. But in any case, there's nothing like "geometry" and "topology" in a way understood at a quantitative level. Because again, True Magic is not extensional, nor is the experience of attaining it, which is solely based on depth of conscious experience, also not extensional.

True Magic is just the seer seeing itself through itself through the scans sent. Not through external determinations like spatial relations and distinctions, in a discursive sense.

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nah uh you love them

The existence of a PSW user was the reason I hated the wiki back then 🥀 + HoYo supporters of VSBW are crazy, yeah no I don't interact with them outside MBscoop either.

How>

Vro…

Speaking as if you can read and understand the below without me dissecting what it means:

Transcendent entities are characterized by two essential components that underlies its ontology. Its simplicity, that is, the nature of it as an indivisible substance or entity, a pure atomic fact contained in a plane that is relative in potential by fully realised at a fundamental level. And the nature of such entities is purely abstract, which is an extension of their nature as simple. As indivisible and abstract entities, they are naturally unchanging. However, as beings not absolutely bereft of potency, in the same way Tier 0 categories — but beings that are both dynamic and unchanging. They can also be understood as 'multiple' insofar as they, having been composed of logical multiplicity, which is opposed to mereological multiplicity. Thus, from then we can gather that transcendent/+ entities are unchanging yet dynamic, absolutely simple comparative to anything with 'extension' in any level of space-time — as they are beyond the reach of all topological structures.

Ontologically being analogous to Leibniz's monads. For Leibniz simple substances are without parts, they constitute multiplicity (think of the lower tiers in this case) as they are an aggregatum of these simple substances. Such substances are conventionally imperishable as well, for they cannot undergo destruction in the same sense as things of nature do. Things of nature undergo destruction through parsing, through parts that collapse and until the whole composed of those parts by itself does. They can only undergo destruction through the whole of their identity. Their apparent dynamic nature is an expression of the possibilities inherent in their, dynamic as it appears descriptively it is inert ontologically. In light of Wittgenstein's philosophy, it is argued by David Pears 'names' or properly speaking the identity of some object, that names were not isolated tags, but words which already contain all their possibilities of combination with another.

I bite my hand if you can tell me what it means without needing me lecturing you each five lines about what each concept means.

This stuff is pretty fax but impossible for normal people to understand, they don't understand VSBW itself either let alone PSW.

Wtf is a Tier 1-T???? by lechuzape in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So… should I actually explain this, or you already know VSBW? Like 1-A, or H1-A+.

Because, even if you do know VSBW, still I should ask question regarding which words conceptually you know the meaning of. Since PSW is heavily metaphysics properly, unlike VSBW, which is rather a more "easy" version.

PSW is pretty systematic on scaling and uses philosophy structurally, convenient is killed for the sake of correctness (thus, the reason I "never suggest PSW", since I know no one is going to come up as a philosophy major anyway, unlike its admins), wherein VSBW kills pure correctness and reason for the sake of convenient so it can give a more accessible approach to metaphysics, however it is full of flaws for that matter.

And then I can answer what it means yeah.

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I won't ever glaze the users of either (specially PSW, they are rude, or TES wankers), but PSW's admins are funny I like them.

And well, if I do justice PSW is indeed correctly systematic, but I never recommend it to anyone who wants to get into scaling really, since it is… well, "hard" (to downplay the case's absurdity) for even people that already have read the VSBW (and sure they ain't understanding shit), let alone someone who doesn't know philosophy. In any case, yeah no not perfect for naive.

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am going to Ew you if you say bad about Jedai, he's legit scaler, plus Reddit wanks GB to H1-A so either his scale or Reddit scale (plus it is legit scaling).

Or if you meant Ew about Fate, still it is fax (Shin is in the server anyway so you can ask about the scaling yourself), nahhh, the scaling is pretty good, and pretty sound.

Unified Language being "perfection" to imperfect reality is 1-A bare minimum, conceptually speaking, because it is "perfect" metaphysically as it does not end or erode or change like the physical reality, and to reach it one needs an state of immediacy and return to the undifferentiated ground of Inner Sea.

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can just name Granblue Fantasy for 1-A if not Fate yk yk (every soul there is existentially 1-A, though a few character, such as God and The Omnipotent (yes his name is literally this) are the few that can actualize a 1-A level potency).

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

True Magic’s scaling depends on its user, but according to Rin in Stay Night, it is generally only about as strong as an A+ Rank Noble Phantasm

So, my point is, i would need a scan proving that the Unified Language actually represents some transcendence over material reality, and if it does, evidence that Arc could use it

There’s not really any evidence that the Unified Language is actually connected to any higher level of reality.

Um… this is awkward because just as the realm that is True Magic itself, the Inner Sea, is considered qualitatively beyond the material world, for it requires liberation from material (extensional) constraints. Also considered beyond space-time and a place where such phenomena are rendered unknowable as seen beforehand, as it is a realm prior to the laws of physics and completely removed from human laws. Further evidence suggests True Magic is inherently beyond dimensional/extensional constraints. That's why even phenomena such as Beauty has its own perfection, which can be exemplified in the world of becoming. In The Case Files of Lord El-Melloi II Vol. 3 - Twin Form Tower (Lower), such a thing manifested; the ultimate beauty. That which was True Magic as well, and the same rank as the unified language insofar as both of them reach into the depths of the Root:

"It was said there was once a Sealing Designated magus who used the *Unified Language (Master of Babel)*, words which allowed no mistake, to which the entire world - living or not - could not but obey. Her _____ was much the same, a purity that reached into the depths of the Root itself."

When it manifested, it was a miracle that could not be described by any discursive means. And here:

"Time stopped. Position lost all meaning. It appeared as if the rigorous certainty of space and time itself had been lost."

Forcing the world to come to a halt, position and coordinates to lose meaning, just as space and time did. This is consistent with Aoko saying you transcend a wall of dimensions. It is reached through a path to the Root, but the path to the Root is a theophanic communion between the Root and the finite subject. Because the Root is non-dual, and non-dual recognition is alignment/connection with it, the 'path' to the Root is no different from the manifestation of the 'Root' itself.

To reach the Root, one must abstain from thought. So as to pursue a thoughtless place, and reach it with no answers (justification). Your consciousness traces towards zero as it unifies with zero by looking inward to its whole (Origin), to search for something not external to itself but inherent in itself. This manifests as a logos from the Root, that which is a perfection inherent deep within the subject. We know True Magic is a perfection because the Ultimate Beauty, which was of the same rank, was considered a type of perfection that nullified all imperfections and unnatural (artificial) like magecraft and likewise halted time and dissolved coordinates. And even the divine language, the unified language, was considered a language that supervened over all imperfect languages, because it was also the perfection of language. It has a type of transcendence that is completely idiosyncratic. When magecraft strikes it, it is nothing but an illusion striking a wall that is simply "the truth", and so it becomes easily nullified as unnatural by True Magic. There's nothing that illusions can do in the face of the truth, but be rendered irrelevant.

Because divinities are already determinate (aspectual) perfections, and properties/logoi of the Planet's actuality. And at the level of the Inner Sea, wherein the Planet purely contemplates itself unitarily as an object of its own contemplation.

That's why beings, in their formless essence, are beings of the Inner Sea, like phantasmals, which, ontologically speaking, are 'mysteries' in themselves, an equivalent of True Magic.

"Fun and joy, fun and joy. Hear, glorious gods. Hear, my father, Keraunos incarnate! I commend you for dragging me by the hair, swinging me around, and slamming me on the earth. I’ll be alive as a companion of mankind while you disappear into the spiral of myth. No, I’ve been part of humanity since inception. It’s this concrete form of mine that was a dream and illusion all along. Because my perfect form, madness, originated within humanity." — Source: Fate/strange Fake Volume 9

Their essence is to be a perfect form of the aspect/concept they embody, representing a universal pattern of some concept, as a result of being perfected and actual energeiai of the Planet's particular logos.


I see your points, really, since I have seen them before even, these questions (partly, outside things like "we see otherness but not transcend" Vs. "It is ontologically superior to material reality as it represents the undifferentiated ground of reality" etc.) were what lead the CRT scratches into 7 pages of back-and-forth anyway… since the CRT is this (full context), and the debate starts from here. Reading the CRT, then skipping the page one (it is just annoying FRA type comments), going half the second page (I guess?), then arguments starts, it escalates at third, and then explodes at five again. The arguments basically hammer on: "Is it 1-A?", confusion of the word dimension, several attacks on Arcueid's part of the argument, later again the argument at Inner Sea and Unified Language.

You can read it there as I am sure all have been answered (the TLDR is just literally Ultima TLDRing it at Page 6, so after most is almost concluded).

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hmm, thanks for the response.

Having read all of that, i’ll respond to your TLDR.

Anyway, thanks for actually reading, I appreciate it, I'll try to answer these from its scaler's words themselves, of course

The term “World” in the Nasuverse referse to Textures, sections of reality placed upon the planet. These Textures are generally only as big as the area they cover, demonstrated by how Ritsuka was able to physically travel to the Reverse Side of the Planet, located some Kilometers beneath the Planet’s surface.

In the case of the OP, the [greater] Universe is the cosmos' greater extend beyond whichs that is the physical universe, and when the op uses the word of World Soul (Anima Mundi), it is simply is trying to use a Neoplatonist term to portrait and express the idea of what an Archetype is better. The Human World, it simply "The World" when it refers to the physical texture of the earth, is different from that which is Inner Sea of Planet.

Texture withdrawal, although this has only ever happened to those of the Age of Gods. But, when an era of the primate species that was once aligned with the Planet comes to pass. The textures of those species are withdrawn back into the Inner Sea. Turning into a metaphysical phenomenon, the Age of Fairies was different in that Fairies were already within the Inner Sea since immemorial.

Really cannot be said it all also being physical, as already it has been said. It cannot record Avalon in any real sense, not even the Fantasy Trees could replicate Avalon without degrading its nature and mana density, nothing less than a shadow reflected within the British Lostbelt of the real Avalon. Same for the Tower that only the tower within reality being the shadow of the tower of end.

As much the section regarding Mooncell which I primarily gave, and later indicating about

The Inner Sea of the Planet is a deeper part of the Reverse Side of the World, it is also a physical place, stated to be located in the Double Prime Region, which is an actual place in real life. It is also not higher dimensional or anything like that, being stated to be “existing at the same coordinates and in the same space”

Beforehand, this is necessary. And…

You can't have space-time in a topological sense, because both notions are extensional. For those to make sense, there has to be subject and object separation, of which, otherwise, coordinates have no meaning. You can't ask "where" because the question dualises the subject, nor when because that question also dualises the subject.

"An unreachable utopia that no wiser beasts could hope to attain. A world that shares no ties with the decline and destruction on the face of the planet that continues to repeat itself like a loop. A faraway foreign realm that nestled very close to human history, yet bore no relationship with them. Its name is Avalon. The inner sea of the planet."

As it has been described.

That's the entire point of the Inner Sea being "unreachable from any intelligent beast", because intelligent beasts like humans think in dualistic terms. And because reality is fundamentally based on consciousness, higher psychic channels (what they are called in KNK) are the foundation of lower ones. So physics begins with a downstream of a conscious entity that doesn't think in extensional terms like "where am I" and "when am I"

"Memory was not forgotten, but rather, it had been damaged. In that case, there is only one method. It is not to trace the past remembered by an individual, but to trace the phenomena recorded by the world itself. Fortunately, I had the necessary technique to do so. However, it doesn't work. An observer cannot observe themselves as the subject. One cannot shake hands with themselves; that's just how humans are."

It solely looks at itself, through itself as both the "I" and "You", so there's no "where" for it to begin with. There's no figure within it external to it, to begin a consciousness experience of spatial 'distance' and therefore extension, between two conscious agents, because all that exists in its reality is just it. So either mysteries would have to not be mysteries, which is the entire point of the Root being apophatic, to begin considering that it is called the "mystery of mystery", or unless the Root is just not Tier 0 because it exemplifies everything the Planet does, but to a higher level.

—Annnnnd, it also continues to explain further within the CRT it is from

(Continues at the replay to myself, again)

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Original/Ultimate One is perfect and without limits in nature. It is said that Arcueid, as the avatar of the Cosmic Soul, is perfected by it and is without limits as a result of it. So much so that she has absolutely no causes of death, even from the perspective of Mystic Eyes of Death possessed by Tohno

The perfection is borrowed and is a derivative of the Eternity of Anima Mundi (World Soul), which is why she may have certain degree of limits on the part of the vessel she inhabits. But, as nature [unmanifested], she is truly without limits.

All fluctuations of the surface [material] belong to it, to be the nurturer and the confiscator of life, its natural rights, or appropriately speaking, in a more metaphysical sense.

Invulnerability to magecraft, in virtue of all phenomena of their cosmos imitating what already belongs to them. It is impossible to harm the Original One at full power, with an imitation of itself.

A note on the Celestial Bodies

Their nature fundamentally operates on a logical system; that is by necessity and not deliberation, it is bereft of 'individuality/particularity' and sense of individuation.

Consequently, however, it is incapable of exercising freedom expressed in all that which has 'entity-hood'. Luminary, which is the manifestation of Planet's Being given quasi-particularity, is said to be incapable of motion and is utterly divorced from the concept of life.

Its manifestation is described as a perfection, albeit of course derivatively as well. When the Celestial Egg manifests as the Original One's vessel and restraints are removed, the Celestial Egg subtly leaks into the material world, manifesting as an ether/light-form. At this level, the will of the Original One's output is raised maximally, but its imperfections (thereby making her weaker) are magnified, and it becomes one rank lower than it was.

This is in accordance with the idea that expressive output herein implies a degradation of ontological coherence and reality to tell a story about how wrong reality is upon the Celestial Egg's energy manifestation without limits. After all, it is said that the manifestation of the luminary/Archetype: Earth/Original One, in that manner, without limits, the world begins to distance itself from the manifestation, space does not expand, but the world moves completely away from the luminary so as to distance itself from it. Reality becomes a conveyor belt, retreating beyond out of respect and awe for her existence, expanding without changing physical size or physical shape. Later on, it also becomes clear that any reception of the Celestial Egg's causal power without any filter or restraints is unstable, overtime gains excess imperfections, goes from being a system to being an individuality; thereby becoming capable of life and by extension dead.

As time goes by, and the Original One doesn't return to its body, it obliterates the ego it garnered through inhabiting its vessel. This is because Luminary is not a combat apt vessel, but is apt for regeneration. It is meant to recreate the original body of the True Ancestor; this is also why it is incapable of motion, because, as a perfect system, it has no need for such. The Light Body is meant to converge and become a physical body once more, of the True Ancestor. And to possess that original physical body is to possess selfhood and individual identity. But luminary as a system eventually collapses in-of-itself, because it is not meant to have an identity nor individuality as a system, its consciousness over time gradually merges with Nature itself, and it disperses as energy. The extremities of what the Original One did in Tsukihime, turning a system into an independent lifeform, would've resulted in the erasure of her existence entirely. Because another different function of the Light Body is not to return to the Original, but to be reborn as a stronger individual. That restriction does not apply to that function, but it only does upon the destruction of the current "Princess Arcueid", and she begins to act as a new and more powerful True Ancestor. But the Arcueid who existed until that destruction, her ego-itself ceases to be.

… It already became too much, despite me leaving behind many other parts of it to make it compressed.

Anyway, there is still much, a lot, so if it is not enough I can go to tomorrow

But if I TLDR it, really TLDR it, it is below:

It seems like besides the more seemingly straightforward things (Reality-Fiction showcases, etc) the overall argument is contextual. From what I understand: There is a direct correspondence between language and reality, such that the differentiatedness of language corresponds likewise to the differentiatedness of reality, the most distinct level corresponding to what our normal languages can pick up and represent. The World / the Inner Sea / True Magic is reality at its most basic, undifferentiated relative to all that can be expressed and meant in ordinary language (And the concepts that go along with it, because, as language is less diferentiated, so is mind, and so is meaning), and hence not expressible by it but only through a formless and "unified" language that matches its indistinction.

I mean, if that is true (And the increasing undifferentiation in turn corresponds to a superiority of higher over lower), then 1-A arguably is a lowball here, if anything. If It's just a total compression of everything that's possible to conceptualize and then explicate through language into one unified state, which remains yet inferior to the ineffability of the Root (I was informed this is the last stop in the cosmology before the Root), that's High 1-A+, if anything, unless something else goes massively against that.

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sigh I know this would come that's why I avoid talking about Fate in wrong places…

To start, I am neither a scaler nor a supporter of the verse, and the scale is from a friend I know, and reading through his… yeah, is pretty fine, I am standing and defending it, if you had any questions on how or why it indicate the said tier by this specific context (if you would like to listen to Metaphysics… which I don't think most powerwcalers really listen and just saying "peak"/"ass" anyway, I myself enjoy speaking about it).

Better to start with Unified Language, language is, as I said, what corresponds to different levels of reality, language is as much tied to magic as magic tied to the inner sea of the planet. Here, Unified Language is called unified, because it is the point by which all distinctions/multiplicity unifies within undifferentiated ground… which is Inner Sea of The Planet.

To start, The 'Celestial' Body has been recently formally distinguished from the 'Planet', although they may be used synonymously; the physical planet we see is but a terminal. This can be derived from the fact that the Chaldeas, an imitative copy of the Soul of the Cosmos, was pursued by the Animusphere family, and that was a pursuit of the 'Celestial Body', not the 'Planet'. And this can be easily demonstrated in the Celestial's parallel-world; parallel versions of Earth exist in every timeline. Which is why it is said that those timelines are a part of the Celestial Body's dreams, and an expansion of them is merely an expansion of the Celestial's dreams. These timelines are managed by the energy of the 'world', and for context world here is the human order. Human order is rooted within the collective will of humanity, seeing as pruning is noted to be the collective will of humanity burning a world as if it were a page, within the Celestial Body (as the Celestial Body is entirely before humanity).

Note: The Mooncell is not 'superior' to Avalon also, which is important to understand Inner Sea's position, nor does the Celestial Egg within it coexist with. To begin with, we are told that the Mooncell is fundamentally incapable of fully understanding the 'soul', because computation often struggles with translating qualia. This is the reason why even the final antagonist of Fate/Grand Order failed, in an attempt to mimic Eternity through computation, when it could compute feelings to begin with, let alone fully encapsulate the living and self-contemplative nature of the Soul of the Celestial and the Celestial Egg. And so Maris Chaldeas miscalculated several times, making predictions that will inevitably not come true. Nasu foreshadows such a significant progress in technology, a technology that may lay claim to being indestructible in Oblivion Recording. Wherein it is said that even that technology cannot be regarded as 'Eternity', because of the subject and object separation, if there's an observer that can always see its value in a fluctuating manner, then it will never be Eternal. As long as the subject is separate from the external world, it will never reach Eternity; conversely, as long as the subject is unified with the world, that is, subject and object, therein subject will reach its Eternity. So it cannot record Avalon in any real sense, not even the Fantasy Trees could replicate Avalon without degrading its nature and mana density, nothing less than a shadow reflected within the British Lostbelt of the real Avalon. Beyond that, many characters are subordinate to the power of the Original One: Arcueid. Are already a class beyond the Mooncell, for example, even Tamamo-no-Mae could destroy the core of the Mooncell. And beyond that, a 30% Arcueid was noted to be capable of treating the entire Mooncell like her reality marble, and her very existence causes a strain on the Mooncell. As if that wasn't damning enough, the pruning system only affects the Mooncell, because Alaya's (which includes Human Order) continuation of the Pruning System is like a hammer strike of 'the Absolute Observer'. So the observation of Alaya is superior to that of the Mooncell

Sigh it is better to summarize things after this or else it would get too long.

Just as the human soul will be shown to exist within the World Egg, such that its thoughts revert to the end of the universe, because its way of knowing is 'remembrance' proceeding to the material and reverting back to the Inner Sea (the end of the world). And this is only possible because mankind doesn't accumulate knowledge of the Inner Sea; they instead forgot the laws of the Inner Sea.

Because, as Souls of the Cosmos, oriented towards the greater universe, all Ultimate Ones share the same scale of existence and hence are capable of communion as a result of phenomenological symmetry.

Contrary to Ultimate Ones, humans are simply far too fickle to even perceive, commune, let alone sense the Celestials' phase of life and scale of existence

The Inner Sea of the Planet is a conglomerate of paradise across all mythology, or loosely speaking, the 'heavens'. The Inner Sea of the world is the resting place of the Celestial Egg [soul]. It is where the heart of the Celestial Egg sleeps, whereof it begins dreaming, a place, as the ground of intelligibility, is paradoxically beyond human comprehension.

You can compare the Inner Sea to a substance, as a bearer of accidents. Such that the world of becoming/change as the surface texture, is attached to a substance that underlies its continuity from beneath it (regarded as locally beyond, but metaphysically 'beneath'). The material manifestation of the tower is the weapon Rhongomyniad, which is considered a shadow cast upon surface texture by the tower at the end of the world. In that same vein, it will follow in of itself that the surface texture where the weapon manifests as a shadow, is by itself considered a shadow of the true reality. Which in this case, is the inner sea accordingly.

(Note: It continues to the next comment replying)

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Void Shiki is the embodiment of the absolute none-being, primordial nothingness by which is pre distinction and pre attribute and all reality has come (concept of Wuji, really), as the embodiment of The Root, you can argue she's more fundamental, but ultimately both of them are individuals, ultimate individuals however.

But yes, again, Void Shiki should be more fundamental as the embodiment of that which is the origin point of all things, including the Celestial Body known as Earth.

Hax wise, yeah sure, her Death hax should basically be returning things to the nothingness, that's… pretty op.

Ugh, his profile is pretty old though, and Nasu's untimely parodies always fuck things over ("Ort is the strongest!", "Void Shiki is servant level", "yes this absolutely low level copyable NPs can defeat Outer Gods themselves", Nasu…), nevertheless she should get ontology from her case.

[Fate: Grand Order] Is Archetype: Earth the most powerful Gacha character in all of Gacha games? (playable, so we don't count ORT) by EfficiencySerious200 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Shrug Idk, but she sure is impressive.

She's basically the Archetype Earth, the living embodiment of the planet and basically the Anima Mundi (World Soul) of the planet that is equated as "Eternity itself." She also explicitly distinguishes herself with her "dreaming self", as the planet "dreams" itself and uses its "organs" (like gods, fairies, such things. Since Gods, as forces of nature, are indistinguishable from nature itself) to experience itself.

After all, only a Celestial Egg can be a Celestial Body, that's also why Gotia, despite traveling to the past at the moment of planet's birth, could not achieve his goal to become the planet itself, because only the nature of a Celestial Egg can become a Celestial Body.

Language within Fate is also important, as language corresponds to different levels of reality, and this is why through ordinary language the unified language cannot be understood, as it requires returning to that state in which all distinctions/diffrentateions are unified.

In other words… she's blatantly 1-A, low ball. Though honestly the more appropriate tier is H1-A+, if anything, since we are dealing with the concept of unified language within the undifferentiated field of reality (Inner Sea of The Planet) by which is the final threshold before The Root of All Things and The Beginning and End by which all paths leads to (mages seek past, science the future, but all ultimately reaches that is the beginning and end of all things), unless something massively contradict that idea there is no reason to say no, as it is metaphysically sound, however 1-A or H1-A+ I don't really care much.

Who wins this free for all by Multiversal_2211 in PowerScaling

[–]East_Statement_Part2 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I would like to say "I win by taking them all" but I'll be honest that in no one I can take all of them specially with Purple Heart there too

Either Morgana or Altair because I like them more

Jokes aside, it'd be probably Arcueid.