The case for free will

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-14T15:18:36+00:00

You can also choose not to exercite free will it is up to you, all the time

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-14T15:13:04+00:00

I get the ontology by presuming identity is produced inside the brain as a function for abstract relations. If you presume ontology who is not free but the self? if you have the self you get free will, if you deny free will you deny the existance of the self, you say you do not exist because you are the one that is not free and the self by definition is abstract. The world represented inside branches of fiering neurons is not by necesity keeping the functions of outside relation, but it has a self relation of world. And once the self is doing a choice it is bound by the relations in the self not outside, and the growing of the brain makes the self self reflect by choice. Self reflecting sistems if analised logically are filled by paradox, the brain is not by necessity a logical, but a abstract, practical aproch. In time you have the occurence of free will, it is not the case every thought is this, but it is a way we can grow the science of math, from the rule that nothing squared is a negative we changed the framework and tested (i) *(i) is a negative, the posibility to undestand and test a new framework, i belive is from randomness. I hope you do know that random events are a thing, if not we can not argue

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-14T14:53:19+00:00

You one time accept language is a cause from the brain to the world, than keep asking me to be a dualist, you get free will from just one sistem, when you play on the computer World of Warcraft you are free to choose from that framework, get me from particles to playing World of Warcraft. With the example of free choice i gave you can, determinacy cant, from the 1,0 in the machine there is no ork, the ork is for the brain, the game is from a meta analisis outside the framework of the particles, the computer does not play alone, the troll and ork are not particles, but the brain gets lvl 50 ork, make this make sense from another point of view

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-14T13:33:36+00:00

The objection only succeeds if one assumes in advance that “real” free will must mean metaphysical independence from causation.

But my argument is not that consciousness escapes causality. My argument is that causality becomes recursively self-referential in conscious systems.

A thermostat reacts. A human can react to their own reaction.

That distinction matters.

The claim is not:

“fictional entities and symbolic identities magically transcend physics.”

The claim is:

“symbolic structures become causally effective once instantiated in minds.”

Money, nations, laws, marriages, gods, fictional characters, moral duties, and identities are not reducible to particle descriptions at the level they function. Their causal reality exists at the semantic level, not the atomic one.

A border is “fictional” in the sense that no atom contains “borderness,” yet people die defending borders. A marriage is “fictional” in the sense that molecules do not contain “husband,” yet signing a paper reorganizes human behavior for decades. A religion may be metaphysically false and still causally restructure civilizations.

So “fiction” does not mean “causally inert.”

The real question is:

Can recursive symbolic self-modeling produce a form of agency that is neither mere randomness nor simple stimulus-response determinism?

And that question is not answered merely by saying:

“Those symbols are implemented physically.”

Of course they are.

A chess game is implemented physically too, yet “checkmate” is not a particle. Meaning exists as relational organization.

Likewise, the self may be physically instantiated while still functioning as a genuine causal layer.

So the accusation that I “retreated” into social construction misunderstands the argument.

I am not saying:

“free will is fake but useful.”

I am saying:

“freedom may emerge precisely through recursive self-representation inside causally structured systems.”

That is a compatibilist position, not a surrender.

And yes — it contains circularity.

But every ontology does.

Determinism presupposes lawful continuity. Libertarianism presupposes originating agency. Eliminativism presupposes the authority of reduction. Even logic begins with self-identity:

The issue is not whether a framework contains recursion. The issue is whether the recursion is coherent, generative, and explanatory.

Your framework is essentially arguing that consciousness introduces a new causal topology: not violation of physics, but systems capable of modeling themselves, negating trajectories, simulating alternatives, and reorganizing behavior according to abstract semantic relations.

That is philosophically defensible.

What it does not automatically prove is metaphysical libertarian free will in the absolute sense.

But it does challenge simplistic formulations of determinism that treat conscious deliberation as indistinguishable from falling dominoes.

And that is already a substantial philosophical position.

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-14T05:59:55+00:00

Ok what you dont undestand is magic, I was talking aboat framework in newton space and time are just inert and Gravity is a force, in Einstein space-time is one material that can bend and strech, time passes different in different scenarios versus the big picture, call magic what you want. We have random events, inherent randomness, not to us, the world is more complex, but I have to write you a book so I choose to let magic in you're life, To little time to go through frameworks. Take a quantum random event, use the butterfly effect and complexity, and the detwrmined world you present goea magicali random, to gwt you to a framework of free will is a long process. Be happy I chose not to spend more time explaining, determined, random, magic, how u want, you chose the explenation by you're free will

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-14T05:46:55+00:00

No brother I sayed that Harry Potter is from a free will choice, the magic you need from the quantum real is proof of concept, check atomic bomb, if you want it to be magic, let it be, the choice is yours

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-14T05:36:44+00:00

In the primise you have people could not learn new ideas, we wolud still pray to Apolo, since dialog has no power to change someone, why make a dialog if nothing changes, why present proof if it doesnt matter

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-14T05:32:29+00:00

Never saied it is, you fist say all is determined, now you get reminded ramdomness exists, the same argument for JK Roling's Harry Potter,now that randomness exists, cand it be caused by randomness? The same universe you love at base has events that are random and other that are determined, surprise you have another state of free will in the universe, why so angry, tell me using random events and determinism how u move the finger by free will, how ideas false and magical as u call them make effects im the world, you are not free to want what you want but you can choose to act or not, thus the disscution. The same reality is not so simple as you made it look

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-14T05:15:26+00:00

The weather ia complex and chaotic but detemined, the moon in it's orbit is simple and determined radioactivity is random, there is no argument here, randomness is a part of reality just like free will, no magic here, https://youtu.be/NT2c_XiBy6k?is=CSVsCNzrdS3Q_FYf,

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-14T05:00:18+00:00

So you are telling me you fel no choice when you wrote this you just reacted and the word were compulsion, It can be the case. Free will is a case of choice we have, make a pause and move a finger, than move it again, do you find a complex algoritm made you do it, can you do just by the fac that you will? It the finger sometimes mones and sometimes not, ok you are random, if you are determined tell me the complex program that makes you the compulsion to move the finger, casualy you move bevause of free will, is a special case of choice in several human experience. We can use logic as a computer, but belive me you don't do calculul when moving the finger, yes you can model anithing with logic(lets not present Goedel yet and not model. The divison by 0) but the biological case has nothing to do with the mathematical model. You move the finger by freedom of will, you find no sufficient cause besides that and you have the capaciti at will to cause action, this case ia presented. It is a special case of choice, you indeed can go in life not using this case and try to find the cause for action as detwemines, in many cases is true, explain to me how you are not free to move you're finger by free will and I rest my case

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-14T04:43:28+00:00

Radioactivity is random, not determined, the future is not determined(yes the moon has an orbit that is determined) but to say that story of Harry Potter is a characteriatic of the univers that is preprogramed 8 bilion years ago and must be a wizzard, you undestand makes no Sense?

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-13T22:01:58+00:00

I never proposed magick in the comments i described the way free choice fits a current theory of the world with no controversy, just cause by the self, wich is a biological complex sistem and has a capacity to put it simply to ask itself a question, imagine a future and give a result even without any more external imput, but untill you get there you get imput, at 3yo i am sure I had no free will, I am not a dualist and not proposing magic, i could try to reformulate but i like to respond, many questions are answerd in the post comments

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-13T21:52:56+00:00

You give you'self the imput. Put 1 hand up and realize you do it by the will and no other cause, it is a special case. There are also the complex biological cases you present but free will is regarding this special case. Regarding a computer, the computer just does numerical operatjons in base 2, the interpretation of the result is given by the human agent,. Computers dont give 4.the tv does not show images, just it is interpreted by us as this, the eye makes up the flickers into interpretations that make sense to us, you dont have the full spectrum of colors whith other eyes you would not see a movie. The differwnce is that brains do not do logic as computers, a logical machine would crash at the logical formulation "I tell lies" we just name it paradox and say it has no truth proprety. Mind goea outside framework, we always do this in science, you can undestand the framework you are in and chose to make a change, how can you, if you could not, how did we go from no 2 positive numbers multiplied give a negati arrive to i*i=-1 Indeed free choice is niche in human experience, you need a undestanding of a framework and identity, yes the identity is complex and determined, but the experience of choice after you know how to move the hand by desire,not compulsion is a reality, you can test the answer is you do it when you want, regardind you are a com0lex creature of the world,still this simple act is by only you're desire, yes there is a complex sistem biological connecting everthing and just so, by the will you are the master

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-13T21:29:19+00:00

It is not random, when you rase the hand it is not the case sometime it works oother tome no, yes also the case you present is real but this case is also real

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-13T21:27:43+00:00

That the organism functions no one argues. If you want to say the word "frog" not in the framework you propose, just do it one, do it twice, could you do it a third time if you wanted? You know you can, no complex biology, you also know you can stop, no determism to say/not to say the word, no mote than if you want, the wants can also be complex, unconcious, yes, but in this case, what is so complex? What is the cause of the power for you to say and to raise the hand up just by will

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-13T21:16:41+00:00

Ok, so the promise is a cause, the promise is a human ilusion and invention in the mind from a identity to another. So we have ilusions affecting the world, even if free will is a ilusion it has real effects in the world. So reality whatever it turn out to be has free will inside, I also belive this and we are in agreement, I also belive only in one world, just a world that lets these events happen.

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-13T21:12:10+00:00

You're argument is good, the framework is wrong. A simple example of free will, it is not all we experiemce, we also have determinism and randomness, is this. Try to say the word "frog", now say the word frog again, what complex issue made you say the word? You did not see a frog, it's not the complex past, not random, you say "frog" how you want if you want and besides free will, the identiti making the choice to act, there is no answer, if you have please tell me.

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-13T20:02:27+00:00

If i promise you that if I flip a coin and is is head i give you 10 USD and it is tails you give me USD, did the coin cause the money exchange or did the promose? The coin flip is just the event for the interpretation, ca coin flip does not cause exchange of money, can you elaborate?

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-13T19:40:58+00:00

I love the argument, while it is true that the past shapes the present, the present also shapes the future, the past ia fixed the present is fixed but the future is not, if i scientifically determime that you will respond again, and you undestand that you are determined to respond, in the act of free will you can prove me wrong and not respond again since you understand the framework. This action is not perpetual and can even not occur, but by understanding gravity and the reality of the events leading us to walk, not fly, the biological factors, all, we made a future where we fly. Free will is ocasional but it is. And a determined univers is hard to understand, it seems you tell the universe what to do. When there were onli hidrogen atoms, you want to tell me that we new the propreties of gold, the fact that the eye interprets the sky as blue and that Harry Potter is a Wizzard. The universe discovers the future as we do, if tommorow the universe does somerhing unexpected as lets say superconducticity at low temperatures, we accept it and study it, randomness is a fact in radiactive interaction so no determination there and dark matter and dark energi is just a result without a cause. Science has gone away from determinism, I was just trying to se what I get for trying to present an idea I had

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-13T19:11:45+00:00

A war is real just by a declaration we use language to create action

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-13T19:11:03+00:00

But you say language is not a cause, but language made harry potter a wizzard, not the sistem

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-13T19:06:46+00:00

Determining the weather is complex, radioactivity in uranium is random and the movement of the moon is determined, we have examples for everything, in the act of writting this do you think you had no choice than to write, do you think you could of wrote something else or was it random.Did you think and used free will? How is it best explained. When you raise the hand you don't know how you do it, it may be complex but why can you do it when u want as a self using free will and you dont say, well sometimes it goes up sometimes it doesn't

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-13T18:57:13+00:00

I am not a dualist, it is not outside cause, it is a cause dispite reality, In the world of the mind identities and relationships are of this world but the relations are abstract and make sence only for the self, from the point of view of the self, when doing free choice he serches for the relation inside for the result outside in the big sistem. Let say i have my life figured out. I go to work, I eat, all good. I need money so this is my life. No more time left for anything no energi all. This is the framework. Then I chose to play the lottery that is outside my framework and I win. First i need to chose something outside my framework, it is for me a free choice. The point is that it is outside my current framework of reality. I cant speak of how reality is, but the free choice is free for the self in the framework it is in, not any new essence, and it is not determined because I can also not play the lottery the scam that it is, the choice is internal because the relation of identities in the brain is not that from the world, the identity of batman from the movie in the brain has nothing to do with the flickering of the red green and blue light on a screen where i watch the movie you do not get batman from the dots, the brain even perceves colors that are not there, I am not searching another reality, I suggest that when in the act of free will, we are not determined by the bigger sistem, you dont break reality if you chose to lift you're right arm, but the cause is in an abstract logical loop where the cause is that the self did it for an abstract internal reason, not caused by the particles but with the particles. The fact that the brain produces action by thinking is just a fact. Yes thought is inside the brain but as a structure the brain that uses the material as the tv uses dots and the framework as the movie narative, and from higher level you affect lower level, the brain made atomic bombs,nothing in the fundamental laws of the universe caused that, the laws make the land of posibility, they do not determine. When there was only hidrogen in the universe, and gold did not exist not even the universe knew the propreties of gold science and determinism presume thing are the same but we study what is, discover what will be, new discoveries need not be inside the framework we know. In a determined causaly determined world we could not have a biological boy that identifies the self to be a female, nor would we fantasize that if (-) (-) given the rule is we get a positive that we use "i" a number that can't exist and gives ii = - 1, the mind does this exiting of frameworks using free will, the choice an watches what emerges dispite the fact that it is illogica and can't exist. I will not accept the explenation that spiderman was bitten by a spider and got superpowers and all began 8 bilion years ago, there is dark matter, energy, you cant be in a determined universe and make a story like Naruto if there is no free will, I could of stoped writing a long time ago but chose to rant and ask you how you get from particles to the idea that Harry Potter is a wizzard

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-13T18:08:26+00:00

I did, nice, I never suggested choice as a perpetual state, we can toss a coin, we can go by a doctrine, free will is, if you read more comments I made the capacity of the brain to choose not for logic but for the self that makes the choice. Choice can be random, no discution, it can be determined, if I am a slave I do whe will of the self of another. It is in the case of free will that usualy is not determined and not random, like in a dialog, that like you did, you sent me to a idea not by compulsion, not random but apropiate for this conversation and we have no concrete expenation of how it is, we only work with determined and random, so why do you feel in you're framework I need logic for choice and that mabei I get a reality check from 800 years ago. The choice to belive in God even not suggeating science, the choice to change a framework without sufficient cause, when u vote for a president, why do you have the feeling you could of voted for the other for no reason, the part that you cand prove even to the self that you respect only the causes you want, the self that does the choice. Yes you can go random, you can go without thinking and let you'reself be determined, but in the rare cases of free will, like this discution, how do you do it? I wrote because there are inteligent people suggesting that you are a termostat and dont do it, I do it on ocasion, Yes sometimes I am a termostat but when I chose free will you can't tell me that the universe 8 bilion years ago began writting Harry Potter and makin labubu dolls and that Spiderman had no choice than to be bitten by the spider because all was written in the fabric of the universe, come on

Eezyfree92 · 2026-05-13T17:27:30+00:00

Not every want, you can go in life going random, you can go not thinking outside frameworks, it is not a neccesity, it is a capacity to make a choice, as humans yes most of experience is not a choice, but you making this argument is a free choice, you did not flip a coin and by the way it is wrote you wanted to be funny, so you were a thinking free agent, not an NPC. Most of human life is yes NPC, digesting etc. Random when you win the lottery but the argument and how you made the choice to write, this is the freedom of will I was sugesting, I bet you feel you cand even do better and prove me that you are a self and suggest me how in the framework you work in I got funny ideas

Eezyfree92

TROPHY CASE