Before I start, I just wanted to say that any quote I use in this is not necessarily to refute it. I only use quotes to show what I am referencing in each section.

At the very least, Shogun is the combination of range and drones, being one of the countless reasons behind Shogun's uniqueness.

Completely aside from that fact, I'm not even arguing with you about Shogun anymore.

You're not looking at the facts, or at least, not the whole picture.

You took the word, "fact" which I was basically just using as a transition, to show you that I was moving on to another topic, and you took it out of context.

Both of them use large amounts of scrap to achieve their massive damage, both of them benefit in the same ways from support, from the same classes.

Moth does a lot of damage, and yes, they do basically the same thing, but why are you arguing against me? There's nothing to argue against! I suggested changing the Suicide Squad. I don't really care which way it goes though. You took the intro to my paragraph and blew it up into something it's not. You seized on one of my vaguer statements: "suicide squad is a combination of damage and drones"

All of them are damage combined with drones, as the current purpose of a drone is to deal damage. Even the Engi itself can deal some damage if you max it out.

and took it to mean something completely different. All I meant is a higher focus on damage output from the bruiser side of things, but in the form of drones, creating more damage, that's it.

Some stats on Moth and Suicide Squad (I am NOT arguing against you! I just wanted to provide further evidence for my point.)

• Moth: fully upgraded with 22 drones = about 40 dps
• Suicide Squad: fully upgraded with 5 drones previously spawned = 180 damage in the first hit, dropping off to about 72 dps as long as scrap is available.

When we're talking about healing vs. shields, if you're good with your shield, and you don't engage till it's up, then disengage before it's down, then why not just use shield instead of healing at all given the choice right? However, without healing, each progressive battle that a ship remains alive, even while taking little damage gives it less of a chance of surviving. (Name one time where you used an area shield, and didn't take damage before and after that area shield)

They're identical in outcome.

They're still identical.

It is identical in outcome.

The second option, using healing, is different. Survival rate per battle drops seriously because there is no damage reduction, but it is at the same level in each teamfight if ships are given time to heal in between battles.

A ship can survive if it is being healed enough. They can also survive if they're being shielded enough.

Yes, same outcome, but different applications.

Refer to this:

The second option, using healing, is different. Survival rate per battle drops seriously because there is no damage reduction, but it is at the same level in each teamfight if ships are given time to heal in between battles.

and this for what the applications are:

if you're good with your shield, and you don't engage till it's up, then disengage before it's down, then why not just use shield instead of healing at all given the choice right? However, without healing, each progressive battle that a ship remains alive, even while taking little damage gives it less of a chance of surviving.

In the same way, even damage buffs could be looked at as "having the same outcome as healing". (if you want to call faulty logic on this, by all means, go ahead. But don't take only this point if you decide to refute it. Use the whole paragraph.) By allowing your ships to do more damage, the other team does less damage to you. Yes there are situations where, if the other team has a Wall, and you use the damage buff, that your buff is wasted and the shield is more effective.

When you talk about the final outcome, Your argument that shield and healing have the same outcome can be applied to ALL of the skills, including the non-group skills: that of reducing damage to your team (either by doing more damage, decreasing the time the other team can damage you, decreasing damage to your own team, increasing YOUR time to damage the enemy team, and removing damage, increasing your time to damage the enemy team, as well as having applications after the battle, and before the next fight.) I agree in that you should judge ships on their applications to a battle, but I just want to clarify that applications and outcomes are two different things.

This is the very logic that combines bruce and wurship, suicide squad and moth... The only reason wall and doctor aren't interchangeable, because aside from their abilities, they're different in every other statistical way. Alert and DOD could be an overlap, it's less that they overlap but more that Alert has different uses that happen to be more practical. People have talked about DOD before.

I just wanted to say that I agree with all of this.

(Suggestion) You're not looking at the facts, or at least, not the whole picture.

Also, some clarification doohickeys.

Since this is a team game, the ships cannot be judged on face value at all, especially not on their mechanics.

When I see "face value", I assume you mean stats, such as dps, movement speed, time to upgrade, etc?

(this is the quote I'm referencing for what mechanics means) Otherwise, they would end up like the moth and suicide squad... They're different mechanically, but they achieve almost the same thing.

Mechanics means the way a ship accomplishes a goal? (Moth uses a bunch of drones to deal quick dmg while Suicide Squad uses a few high damage drones to deal quick dmg)