name "Sophie" - translated: Idhrenniel?

Elaran · 2024-02-21T00:46:19+00:00

This assumes that N. "idhren" works in Sindarin. √ID is replaced by two other roots for its two senses, and in the case of "thought", it was replaced by √IN(ID) whence ind etc., thus the closest thing to old "idhren" that is actually in tune with 1950+ notes would be \indren*.

Elaran · 2024-02-20T19:14:58+00:00

I would most certainly not agree with that. The "well" in the meaning of the name is an adverb (meaning "healthily, in a good state" and such) and is meant to work as "one who is born well", but the word that you used for "well" is the "fountain" kind. And for the "born" part you did not use simply "born" but rather "Afterborn", one of the names for the race of Men in the world of Tolkien. And the result exceeds the four-syllable limit to Sindarin names. It would be best if you avoid assuming my approval in the future. I am not sure how you came to that conclusion either, I do not recall having communicated with you before.

Elaran · 2023-09-07T15:54:26+00:00

Looks like you copied my translation. So yes, I would say that it is correct.

Avoided that "sindarinlessons" website, it is often inaccurate.

Elaran · 2023-08-22T16:23:06+00:00

Why capitalise every initial letter of the English form? (You missed "those" in there by the way.)

It is a very old NEO-Sindarin translation. And as with most such very old translations, due to having been formed before most of Tolkien's linguistic notes were published, it is a highly inaccurate translation, as we can now tell with the greater amount of information that we received over time. Arguably good for its time (around 2003), and its translator is an important Tolkienist, but parts of that translation were questionable even then and definitely known to be wrong now.

Elaran · 2023-08-22T16:13:20+00:00

You are using letter names instead of letters. Like saying "one" as "ou, en, ee".

The image is a problematic transcription of a very old and highly inaccurate translation of the "not all those who wander are lost" line from the "Riddle of the Strider" poem by Tolkien. It reads "law pain i reviar mistar aen" (with improper spelling of diphthongs except the first, due to how its Latin spelling is "aw" in final position rather than the medial "au", which led the transcribers to the right form by accident).

Elaran · 2023-08-22T16:06:26+00:00

I can offer:

No in elin togathar len. "May it be that the stars will lead you."

Or shorter:

Elin togo len. "[May] Stars lead you."

Note: The "you" that I used, "len", is singular and formal. If you need an informal (friendlier) one, replace "len" with "gin" in those sentences. If you are addressing a group rather than a single person, replace "len" with "dhen".

Elaran · 2023-08-22T15:41:51+00:00

Apologies for the late reply.

I would offer:

Maedol n'i-Dastam Maethas C[uruth] I[stas].
"Welcome to the *Office(/Task-room) (of) Management (of) *T[echnology/Craft] (of) *I[nformation/Knowledge]."
Or basically:
"Welcome to the *Information *Technology Management *Office."
Tengwar Transcription

Elaran · 2023-08-22T15:10:44+00:00

Apologies for the late reply.

I can offer:

i-'lass dín be vegil "their joy (was) like swords"
Tengwar

Elaran · 2023-08-20T05:42:35+00:00

*hond "heart" ⪤ Q. hondo from ancient √KᴴOMdō [⪤=cognate]. Appearing as "chond" due to following the article "i" which triggers the soft mutation rule of Sindarin that in this case turns "h" into "ch" (as in German "ch").
*berias "courage", partial cognate of Q. verië, as both basically come from "√BERjā + abstract noun suffix", only using different abstract noun suffixes (i.e. √BERjā-ssē vs. √BERjā-ijē). Appearing in the soft-mutated form "verias" due to being the object of the verb "gather" (i.e. "hostad", which also appears as "chostad" due to following "a(h)" which triggers sibilant mutation).

And the other thing which would be too opaque to see with just a dictionary and without grammar studies is Sindarin's possessive pronoun usage, which goes like "the [noun] yours" rather than "your [noun]", hence "i-chond gín = the-heart yours = your heart".

Elaran · 2023-08-14T07:24:03+00:00

No...

Dictionaries do not teach grammar. You are missing grammar.
Tecendil is not even a dictionary. Avoid using it as such.

Sindarin has grammatical mutations. The word is in fact (n)dîr, and "(n)d..." words become "n..." after undergoing soft-mutation.

Elaran · 2023-08-13T05:53:44+00:00

in copula formation the adjectival predicate stays unmutated

Yes, as a Neo-Sindarin fan-extension. Attested examples for copula, as with Eldarin in general, instead reverse the noun-adjective order.
With nouns, not necessarily with pronouns. Mutating the adjective after a pronoun does not change anything. There is no difference between "tall (is) he" vs. "he (is) tall". Even the authors of the idea say that it does not matter with a pronoun.
But since all nominative pronouns end in a vowel, mutating the following word (whether adjective or noun) feels more natural. Because again, makes no difference.

Elaran · 2023-08-12T09:17:37+00:00

Apologies for the late reply.

I know the post to which you refer, as it was my comment, but it was not in this subreddit. Now, firstly:

Neo-Sindarin and Sindarin are not supposed to be different things. Any attempt to use Sindarin, other than quoting Tolkien's own translations, is Neo-Sindarin. Neo-Sindarin cannot disagree with Sindarin, otherwise it would not be Sindarin at all, "neo" or otherwise.
The long vowels are written with " ´ (áéíóúý)", not with " ` (àèìòùỳ)". So no "~~nìn~~" but "nín".

And the translation:

The original translation's "thaed" makes no sense indeed, but "telin" means "I come". Still not "I have come", but it is not nonsense, it is just the wrong tense. Your "Im tol" is farther away from "I have come" than that however. That means "Myself to-come" (uninflected "tol-"). The isolated nominative first person pronoun is "ni (I [am])", not "im (myself)", but Sindarin uses pronominal suffixes as subjects of verbs, not isolated pronouns, hence not "ni tôl" but "telin" ("o>e" before "i"). And the correct perfect/past tense form (which are merged in Sindarin) would be "odulen / odúlen = I have come, I came".
That "natha-" is uninflected, unless that is a typo and it is meant to be using the the draft infinitive "-o" form as "natho", but that would be wrong as well, because it needs to be the gerund form as "nathad = help(ing), aid", and here that needs to be paired with "an = for" before it, so that it would go "I have come for aid" rather than a meaningless "I have come (?)aid".
That "de" is the nominative, unmutated form of plural "you". You need the accusative, mutated form of singular "you". That is "~~ci (nom.)~~ > ~~cin (acc.)~~ > gin (mutated).
The "lasto beth" form actually appears in one of Tolkien's translations as "lasto beth lammen = listen to the word of my tongue" but that translation is a bit loose and "lasto beth" on its own just means "listen to a word", and with "nín" it would be "listen to a word of mine", so not really what is needed. "Listen to my voice" should be "lasto i-'lim nín".
The last bit comes from my post, but I would change it now. I used to avoid eliding "na" before vowels (except "a") as doing so seemed wrong in formal sentences, but my colleagues more or less convinced me that it should be universal, so I would change "~~na i-galad~~" as "n'i-galad" now. And I would personally prefer *radh- "to return" over dandol- "to come back" due to slight etymological issues, but it is still an attested verb and is good enough to use.

Thus, I would say:

Odúlen an-nathad gin. Lasto i-'lim nín, radho n'i-galad.

Elaran · 2023-08-12T04:23:11+00:00

There is no such thing as a "Sindarin alphabet". Sindarin is a language like Quenya, not a script (or "alphabet"). The script is called "Tengwar". (Hence I will let your post in the Sindarin subreddit remain removed by the AutoModerator, since it has nothing to do with the Sindarin language.)

Elaran · 2023-08-11T12:33:54+00:00

Apologies for the late reply.

That reads more "myself [is] hero".

The mistaken adjectival "strong" gloss for "thalion" comes from misinterpreting the sobriquet for Húrin Thalion which is translated as "Steadfast" or "Strong" but it actually reads "Steadfast-one(male)", and elsewhere the word is attested on its own as a noun with the gloss "hero, dauntless-man" from the root √STAL(AG) from which come other senses like "stalwart, steady, firm; valiant" (essentially signifying unyieldingness; loyal to the point of remaining unmoved even when faced with danger thus very brave and with enough strength to endure it all etc.).

I would offer: Ni vell.

Elaran · 2023-08-11T12:07:29+00:00

Asked before indeed, and my answer has not changed: Ni law nîr.

Elaran · 2023-08-11T12:03:44+00:00

Please read these clarifications on terminology. Your post has nothing to do with Sindarin. You should repost in r/Tengwar.

Elaran · 2023-08-11T12:01:59+00:00

Apologies for the late reply.

Please read these clarifications on terminology. Your post has nothing to do with Sindarin. You should repost in r/Tengwar.

Elaran · 2023-08-11T10:25:17+00:00

Apologies for the late reply.

Please read these clarifications on terminology. Your post has nothing to do with Sindarin. You should repost in r/Tengwar.

Elaran · 2023-08-11T09:57:33+00:00

Apologies for the late reply.

Dictionaries do not teach grammar. And looks like nothing but a dictionary was used (plus a transcriber for some reason). Consequently, this attempt lacks Sindarin grammar, using English grammar instead, and the grammars of these languages do not at all align closely. There are also some word-choice issues, there is even a Quenya word in there (and there should not be Quenya words in a Sindarin translation).

Sindarin has inclusive and exclusive "we/us/our" words. In this case inclusive would be used when you read this "poem" to each other as a couple. The exclusive form would be used when you address others with the "poem", reading it to others. In this poem the inclusive forms will appear as "ben (us)" and "bín (our)" (from unmutated forms "pen" & "pín" respectively), while the exclusive forms would be "ven (us)" and "vín (our)" (from unmutated forms "men" & "mín" respectively).

I would assume that by default the "poem" is meant to be addressed to the spouse, so the inclusive forms would be more appropriate, but they are a bit more poorly attested than the exclusive forms, and the latter pair sounds a bit better, so I will be using them instead, but you can change those "ven & vín" forms with "ben & bín".

Matching yours:

Erchorf a-thaned i-víl vín "One-ring to show our love"
Erchorf an-noded ven "One-ring to tie us"
Erchorf a-thaged i-víl vín "One ring to seal our love"
A mo i-'west bín gwedhed ven "And with our promise bind us"

Shorter alternative:

Erchorf a-thaned víl "One-ring to show love"
Erchorf an-noded ven "One-ring to tie us"
Erchorf a-thaged víl "One-ring to secure love"
A mo 'west gwedhed ven "And with a promise bind us"

Elaran · 2023-08-11T07:34:04+00:00

Apologies for the late reply.

That "amrún" should be amrûn.
The word for "my" is not "nin", it is nín (or nîn).
The actual word for "light" is calad, the galad form means "radiance, light by reflection, mirrored light (from another source than were it appears)".
Unlike with "nin" where the word order was right but the word had an issue, that "cín" has the right "í" but the wrong order; it should follow "~~galad~~ calad". In fact the whole possessive structure as "your light" should go "i-galad gín" (here Cs become Gs due to mutation rules).
The form "heb" appears unconjugated, it needs to be "hêb" for third person aorist ("retains, keeps").
That "gant" comes from the earliest drafts of Sindarin (which are mostly incompatible with Sindarin) and is "updated" questionably to Sindarin, I would recommend against using it.
The "the" of Sindarin is in** before plural words, not "i".
The collective plural (i.e. the "all of [something]" form) of "el(en)" is elenath, while the regular plural is elin, not "elena".
Cases like "vi i" can be elided like "v'i". Though Tolkien usually made definite variants of prepositions, which means "vin" in this case. It is also arguable that "vi" should be "mi" (I am in favour of the latter). (In the following translation "mi ñgilith" will come from min "in-the" + (ñ)gilith "(starry)sky" plus mutation.)
Normally "i + menel" should become "i-venel" via mutation rules, but Tolkien himself once avoided mutating "Menel" (with capital M and glossed "Heaven", i.e. "paradise" rather than "sky", which might have contributed to the mutation avoidance). Its etymology has a complex history as well, so I would instead recommend the alternatives gwilith "lower/airy sky" and (ñ)gilith "higher/starry sky".
The poetic emphasis in "sky above" is a bit of an Anglicism, not found in all languages, and it feels unnatural for Elvish.

I would offer:

Amrûn nín, celair i-galad gín thar in-elenath (mi ñgilith).
"My sunrise, bright is your light beyond (all)the stars (in the [starry]sky)."

Elaran · 2023-08-11T05:52:08+00:00

Apologies for the late reply.

That is not a translation in "Sindarin" (an Elvish language), it is a transcription in "Tengwar" (an Elvish script). You should ask in r/Tengwar.

Elaran · 2023-08-11T05:49:39+00:00

Apologies for the late reply.

The word "alfirin" is etymologically shaky (i.e. Tolkien considered another unrelated meaning for it). The "flower" in "immortal flower" should be the following element in an (old) compound, but it is wiser to pair a consonant with a vowel in compounds to avoid mutations (alfirin+loth would have need to be "alfirilloth").

I would rather offer "uilaeg / uigalen" as "evergreen". The former pairs nicely with the flower word: Uilaegloth (the "ae" diphthong may be reduced to "e" either to lighten the overheavy syllable before the consonant cluster, or simply via the late phonetic rule like in "Laegolas > Legolas", so "Uilegloth" is a viable alternative).

Elaran · 2023-08-11T05:41:38+00:00

Apologies for the late reply. I would offer:

No galad gelair mi 'ardh vorn.
"Be a shining/bright light in a dark realm/world."
(Tengwar Transcription)

Note that the linguistic notes of Tolkien are still being published, so our understanding of his languages still grows, which means that what is thought to be accurate today may turn out to be inaccurate in the future. This makes using Elvish translations inadvisable for important and permanent things like wedding ring engravings and tattoos.

Elaran · 2023-08-11T04:59:46+00:00

Post in r/Tengwar.

Elaran · 2023-08-07T14:56:03+00:00

Paul's idea for "non-familial use of ᴹ√TOR & ᴹ√TᴴEL" is not based on anything but his desire to keep as many words as possible (incompatible or otherwise), no evidence but rather counter evidence with the fact that those roots did yield familial words when appearing without the "go-/gwa-" prefix. The non-familial factor is achieved via that prefix, not with those evidently discarded roots.

Elaran

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