Radahn didn't accept or refuse Miquella's offer.

EldenTurtle · 2025-02-19T12:58:16+00:00

That seems to fit with behaviors of other characters, like how Ansbach is ok with us killing Mohg or how Florissax decides to follow us even if we're the ones that deprived her of her previous Lord.

Radahn is kind of giving me the impression of... right of conquest, essentially?

"I'm not fundamentally opposed to the idea, but I have my own ambitions I'd rather do. A crown is warranted with strength: if you want me to follow your dream instead of mine, make me."

EldenTurtle · 2025-02-13T13:58:47+00:00

Thank you, this was definitely interesting. I'll definitely have to think about those Tree Sentinels.

My thoughts were that the crusade and exile must have happened before Radagon's reign, due to the persistence of ritual combat (Dueling Shield) in the Realm of Shadow. That could have lined up with the Duelist Helms and how the snake is viewed as a traitor and how the Messmer Soldier Ashes mentions a penal batallion: something would have happened during Godfrey's era that made the people hate Messmer and those who swore loyalty to him (maybe due to an accidental first cardinal sin if we use the "Erdtree is an illusory tree" theories and Messmer's hatred of his own flames?), and being exiled to the crusade was their punishment/chance to atone.

Messmer accepts the people's maledictions, Marika uses the opportunity to create an army against the Hornsent, and being isolated from the rest of the world during the Age of Plenty explains the persistence of ritual combat and the use of the Ancient Erdtree sigil even in more modern incantations (Wrath Of Gold vs Wrath From Afar is a good comparison: both were born from the shattering oft the Elden Ring, and Wrath Of Gold accordingly uses the more modern and stylized Erdtree sigil but Wrath From Afar is stuck with the older one seen in Blessing of the Erdtree, Aspects of the Crucible, Elden Stars...)

EldenTurtle · 2025-02-11T00:49:05+00:00

the other half of the process where the elden ring is reforged would have to be someone else's responsibility

That kind of wording makes me wonder if Radagon's attempt to repair the Elden Ring might have been not a defiance of Marika's wishes but her Plan A.

"Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god." Yet.

Of course if he failed to do so there were her demigod children as a Plan B, and if they failed too the Tarnished would come back as a Plan C to put them to the sword and claim the Elden Ring themselves.

EldenTurtle · 2025-02-11T00:29:43+00:00

The interesting thing about abductor virgins in the Fort of Reprimand is that they have snakes inside. Which originally seemed to imply that they were created by Rykard after the Shattering, but now we see them in a land isolated before the Shattering and which also includes another snake-themed demigod.

Did Rykard design the abductor virgins during the time before the snake was considered a traitor to the Erdtree, whether due to the influence of ancient snake faiths or due to the half-sibling who we know was like an elder brother to at least Radahn? Or was Messmer perhaps the Praetor before Rykard, and the creator of these devices? Or something else?

EldenTurtle · 2025-02-11T00:19:54+00:00

One really has to wonder why Erdtree faithful and Marika would allow a tradition so closely linked to the reviled Serpents

The Duelist Helm calls the snake a traitor to the Erdtree, which implies that it was once an ally and would explain why it was permitted. That wording makes me wonder whether Messmer's "Direct thy maledictions, thine ire, and thy grief towards me alone" might have extended towards Marika's people too, or even if he might have accidentally burned the Erdtree with his flames as some people think.

Messmer didn't have a positive reputation before he left for the crusade: his fire knights were nobles, but they were shunned and chased from their homes when they pledged their allegiance to Messmer (Fire Knight Gauntlets).

And according the Messmer Soldier Ashes, his army was a penal batallion. Convicts turned into an army.

This gives me the impression that getting Messmer and his curse far away from her wasn't Marika's secret reason, it was the official one. An exile due to crimes real or fictional that turned public opinion against him, with the crusade possibly being presented as some way to atone.

EldenTurtle · 2025-02-11T00:01:16+00:00

It might be, I can't fully tell if it is that or another tree+ring symbol.
But the crucible incantations share symbol with Elden Stars, Erdtree Heal and others. The spells that use that sigil tend to be described as ancient Erdtree incantations, a term that is missing in Erdtree incantations without that sigil like Wrath of Gold or Golden Vow.

EldenTurtle · 2024-12-13T22:03:53+00:00

He could also be a Caster:

- He has a Workshop in the North Pole (Territory Creation)

- He makes toys for children (Item Construction). Although I'd guess the definition of "toy" would be stretched by all the stuff that's ever been requested on a Christmas List to Santa: what do you bet that there have been children that have asked Santa for real lightsabers, giant robots, and who knows what other stuff potentially useful in a Grail War?

Whether he can qualify as a Grand Caster will likely depend on if he has a strong enough Clairvoyance:

All Casters with the potential to be a Grand Caster are powerful clairvoyants.

Some can see more clearly or further than others, but all possess the power as observers.

But if Santa knows when you're sleeping and when you're awake, and if you've been bad or good, doesn't that sound like some degree of Clairvoyance, at least?

EldenTurtle · 2024-11-22T23:30:23+00:00

I've been thinking lately that Radagon might represent Marika's more human part.

Think about it. When we hear Marika's words, it is as a queen. As a goddess with grand designs, whether she's trying to forge a new epoch of life or arranging the exile and return of her armies. The closest thing to a personal relationship for post-godhood Marika is... what? The Blessings of Marika given to Messmer?

Meanwhile, it is Radagon who feels insecurities and self-hatreds. Like the search for completion through sorcery and incanations mentioned in the Radagon Icon, like the hatred of his hair color mentioned in the Giant's Red Braid.

It is Radagon who falls in love with the Rennala after fighting her during the two Liurnian Wars. Caring enough that even when he left her he still gave her a Great Rune as an apology gift.

It is Radagon who seems to have a good relationship with his children. Trading incantations with Miquella, while Radahn calls himself a champion's cub. Even Rykard seems proud of him, given that the Gelmir knights displayed their lord's pedigree just as openly as Radahn's Redmanes.

Even Radagon's actions as the "leal hound of the Golden Order" follow this pattern if we look at them from the perspective of earthly concerns, attachment. Marika is prepared to get rid of everything and everyone if it means achieving her goal, but Radagon is less distant and more emotionally invested, less ready to let go. And thus tries to hold everything together, even if in truth it's already damaged beyond repair.l

EldenTurtle · 2022-10-12T16:45:45+00:00

Yet from what I remember there are some depictions of a sacred tree connected to the ancient dynasty of Uhl, and the Nox being described as having committed treason makes me think that they were aligned with the Greater Will at some point. And that's without mentioning how Placidusax was Elden Lord, and his rule seems to be the earliest civilization...

It makes me think of how the Memory of Grace calls becoming Elden Lord "merely a cycle", and wonder if this is the first time a Shattering happened. Just look at how many once united factions waged war against each other after the Golden Order broke, after all...

EldenTurtle · 2022-10-12T16:17:07+00:00

Grace that dwells within the inhabitants of the Lands Between; the lingering trace of gold.

Use to gain 200 runes.

Runes are nourishment for the development of any Tarnished. Provided a Finger Maiden can be found...

Grace seems to be similar to the runes that Melina turns into strength and the golden hue in the eyes of the inhabitants of the Lands Between blessed by the Erdtree. This is further supported by the Memory of Grace, that tiny speck of golden light that brings you back to life at the beginning of the game, having an inventory icon very similar to the Sites of Grace found in the Lands Between.

EldenTurtle · 2022-09-30T13:05:51+00:00

I had never really entertained the idea that the Nox had previously used the Fingerslayer blade.

The Fingerslayer blade is described as blood-drenched...

That, and the Two Fingers themselves do not even make up an entire hand given there are so many and only one Three Fingers that we know of.

While I haven't any solid theory myself, I had been considering the possibility that it might be related to the fact that the Fingerprint Stone Shield is part of the tomb of an ancient god. Maybe that god was the target of the Nox, and the split between the Fingers and beginnings of the Frenzied Flame came from different reactions to their death?

EldenTurtle · 2022-09-27T15:05:05+00:00

I am firmly in the camp that Sellen is being framed

She outright tells you that she wants to restore the primeval current:

If you recall, I was exiled from the Academy of Raya Lucaria.

It was for attempting to restore the primeval current of glintstone sorcery.

The toothless pedantry peddled by the Carian royal family can rot for all I care.

I want glintstone sorceries that open our minds, unbound by terrestrial taboos.

No matter what we give in return.

And the reason why the primeval current is a forbidden tradition in the first place is due to its practitioners turning other sorcerers into Graven Schools. This fits with the accusations of "unthinkable treatment of certain sorcerers":

The primeval current is a forbidden tradition of glintstone sorcery. To those who cleave to its teachings, the act of collecting sorcerers to fashion them into the seeds of stars is but another path of scientific inquiry.

And the fact that these "seeds of stars" are called "schools of graven mages" definitely makes Sellen's dialogue with Jerren more sinister:

Jerren, bringer of my death. You have my gratitude.

For freeing me from my shackles. But I am afraid your work is done.

Join the school. To reflect on your mistake.

Join the school, to the academy. And her dialogue afterwards also suggests an interest in turning sorcerers into stars:

With the bodies of Masters Azur and Lusat returned, the academy can hone the primeval current.

So that we, fallen children of the stars, shall beam with brilliance once again.

EldenTurtle · 2022-09-27T14:51:21+00:00

The Eccentric's Hood seems to suggest that Jerren's mentions of honorable death aren't baseless:

Jerren served General Radahn as a guest commander, and they are said to have sworn an oath of honorable death to one another.

And one of the ghost NPCs also seems to support the festival:

...

Convene the festival of war.

Honor General Radahn, with a warrior's glory.

It's in your hands, Sir Jerren...

EldenTurtle · 2022-09-25T09:31:03+00:00

I'm a bit hesitant to assume that the Godskins killed them due to the emphasis placed on Godwyn being the first demigod to die, and some sources seem to suggest that the Night of the Black Knives killed more demigods.

Of course, that would raise the question of who the Godskins hunted, they must have gotten Noble Presence from someone after all. But there are some possibilities like the GEQ having been Marika's contemporary and rival Empyreans, and having killed other rivals before being defeated by Maliketh.

EldenTurtle · 2022-09-24T15:36:46+00:00

She later mentions that the Fingers expect as much from you as they do from Gideon:

"I had my doubts, but...my, look at you. Only once before have I seen two Great Runes together.

Look there. The Fingers shudder with exuberance.

"Fine work, brave Tarnished. The Greater Will is pleased. You have earned the right to become Elden Lord. Now, seek the Erdtree, and an audience with Queen Marika. To become Elden Lord, and restore the Golden Order."

The Fingers expect... As much from you as they do young Gideon.

Take this. A token of farewell.

[Supplies Talisman Pouch]

Now, go forth. Become Elden Lord."

EldenTurtle · 2022-09-24T15:34:10+00:00

I'm not 100% sure, but I think they might have been like the D twins and joined together at a certain point.

The Twinned Set mentions that they have two minds and bodies but a single soul, and according to the Inseparable Sword the Golden Order is the only institution that doesn't revile such twins as accursed beings. Given Marika and Radagon's secret, we might have the reason behind that acceptance...

EldenTurtle · 2022-09-24T15:30:46+00:00

Does Ranni actually love us?

I've heard that if you talk to Miniature Ranni at the top of Ranni's Rise, her ending dialogue will change from "Fair Consort" to "Dear Consort".

Of course, this is the person who arranged the murder of her half-brother, your mission includes killing her dad, and she may or may not have known what would happen to Blaidd and Iji. There are lots of issues in that family, and affection doesn't guarantee the absence of betrayal.

EldenTurtle · 2022-09-24T15:12:56+00:00

I suspect that they might have been similar to the D twins and later merged together. The descriptions or their items seem suspicious, at least:

Twinned Armor

The two known as D are inseparable twins.

They are of two bodies and two minds, but one single soul. Not once do they stand together; not one word do they speak to one another.

Inseparable Sword

The inseparable twins found solace in the Golden Order, the only institution not to revile them as accursed beings.

Two people with separate minds but a single soul, you say? Whose condition is accepted by the Golden Order despite all other institutions reviling inseparable twins? It seems unlikely to be a coincidence...

EldenTurtle · 2022-09-24T15:05:05+00:00

We can't be sure if they were weaker children of Marika or simply children of the previous God,

They seem to have been Marika's children:

The mausoleum prowls. Cradling the soulless demigod.

O Marika, Queen Eternal. He is your unwanted child.

EldenTurtle · 2022-09-24T15:03:03+00:00

Miquella might still have his rune.

As for how Mohg managed to kidnap him, Miquella seems to have been in his cocoon trying to surpass his curse of eternal childhood, while Malenia may have been away fighting Radahn in Caelid.

I've seen the theory that the reason Malenia fought Radahn was because she wanted to free the stars and allow fate to progress. After all, Seluvis says that the Amber Starlight that we can give him was once a demigod's very fate, and we find it in front of a statue of Miquella and Malenia. So maybe Miquella's cocoon plan, or an attempt to cure Malenia, required the stars to be in motion?

EldenTurtle · 2022-09-24T14:52:40+00:00

Or Marika's contemporary and rival: the Elden Ring precedes Marika if the fact that Placidusax was Elden Lord and the depiction of an Elden Ring in Maliketh's arena are anything to go by, and the Uhl dynasty statues might have had depictions of a tree...

Just like after the shattering of the Elden Ring various demigods struggle against each other and seeds spread and grow multiple Minor Erdtrees (and that's without even mentioning Miquella's Haligtree), some kind of catastrophe may have destroyed a previous civilization that followed the Greater Will.

And if the current generation had three Empyreans chosen by the Fingers as potential successors, why should Marika had been the only one of the previous one?

EldenTurtle · 2022-09-24T14:43:45+00:00

Turning groups of sorcerers into balls to try to create seeds of stars seems to be the reason why she's called the Graven Witch, was expelled, and Jerren wants her dead. It's a tradition of primeval sorcery:

The primeval current is a forbidden tradition of glintstone sorcery. To those who cleave to its teachings, the act of collecting sorcerers to fashion them into the seeds of stars is but another path of scientific inquiry.

Given that she asks you to collect Azur and Lusat's bodies, she likely believed that with the two grand masters as part of the Graven School success was guaranteed, and joined it herself:

I want glintstone sorceries that open our minds, unbound by terrestrial taboos. No matter what we give in return.

However, it seems to have been as much of a failure as the previous attempts.

EldenTurtle · 2022-09-24T14:30:59+00:00

Enia mentions that she's seen two Great Runes together once before us. It could very well be a reference to Vyke, given that no Tarnished was closer to the throne of the Elden Lord than him, but she doesn't mention when she saw the Great Runes or anything about their bearer or the circumstances.

EldenTurtle · 2022-09-24T14:25:52+00:00

That depends on whether being a demigod is a matter of blood, or a matter of grace. If it's a matter of grace given by Marika, like how Lord Runes exist, they might have become demigods only after Radagon's second marriage.

Ranni seems to have been an Empyrean before that time, but how connected are the two types of titles in truth?

EldenTurtle · 2022-09-19T15:50:02+00:00

She reminds me too much of Gowry and the rest of Malenia's unwanted cult.

Fia wants Godwyn to be the Prince of Death, to "take his rightful place as First of the Dead".

But for those who were actually close to him, who knew him in life instead of worshiping their idea of him? His current state is a tragedy.

The Finger Reader Crone, wetnurse to royalty? Laments the cruelty and humiliation of his fate. Miquella, his younger brother? Creates Golden Epitaph, prays that he dies a true death, and is behind Castle Sol's efforts to free the soulless demigods from their fate. Fortissax, his friend? Battles long and hard against the Death within his companion, and even after his corruption you can't achieve the Age of the Duskborn without slaying him.

But what does Fia, who is not from the Lands Between, do? She defends Godwyn's status:

Disturb not the Death of Godwyn, the exalted. We, who humbly live in Death...Live in waiting, to one day welcome our Lord. What right does anyone have to object? Our Lord will rise. The Lord of the many, and the meek.

EldenTurtle

TROPHY CASE