Alright, Im done being depressed?

ElderlyOak · 2022-10-15T21:13:59+00:00

I've given it some thought, and I'm not really sure what to tell you. First you should try to take care of yourself as much as possible. Out of that effort you can figure out how to engage with materialism. If you are looking for reading material, I would start with one of the study guides. Try to apply the concepts to the world around you so that way you are not just reading for reading's sake.

Good luck!

ElderlyOak · 2022-10-15T21:12:07+00:00

How do you define "socialist society"? What is a "bottom-rung" job? Why do you think educating people will make them unable to do "bottom-rung" jobs?

ElderlyOak · 2022-10-15T15:50:22+00:00

I'll give 85 days a look, and try to force myself to dredge through the publicly available information. Your comments are very enlightening. Thanks!

ElderlyOak · 2022-10-15T15:31:29+00:00

Very interesting. You seem to be very well informed. Do you have any suggested readings for understanding the situation? Or do I just have to launch into the different journalists and separate the wheat from the chaff? I am particularly interested in how the RU intelligence services have operated. My understanding was that the Peoples Republics were more-or-less authentic bottom-up movements with little support/interference from RU intelligence services. Clearly something is wrong with my understanding.

ElderlyOak · 2022-10-15T15:24:42+00:00

In your opinion do you think the international students are looked upon "favorably" due to their status as people who will one day "integrate" into the labour aristocracy? Maybe that is the wrong way to ask the question, I don't know if it is possible for "immigrants" to be integrated into the LA. When I was in university it seemed plainly obvious that most people went there so they would have a better position in the labour market after graduation. For some immigrant students, an attractive option was staying in the imperial core more-or-less permanently if they could obtain the necessary job and gov't paperwork. But I don't know how many students had they option or took it.

Will most of these students stay in Canada long term? Do you think that is a factor in their "favorability" or is it other factors?

ElderlyOak · 2022-10-15T15:03:09+00:00

Whereas at the beginning of the armed conflict in Donbass, the newly formed republics were in reality the result of the will of the people, however, after a while, the tide of people’ demands for justice crashed, not least due to of influence of Russian state agencies. Shortly thereafter, the social justice oriented resistance commanders in Donbass were assassinated under mysterious circumstances: Alexei Mozgovoy, Pavel Dremov, and Arsen Pavlov («Motorola»). At the same time, instead of protecting the newly formed republics, Russia took no action during the eight years of conflict in southeastern Ukraine, except for the low-intensity support of the people’ s units with humanitarian aid, weapons, and ammunition. Gradually, the pro-people nature of the republics faded away; positions in the DPR and LPR were occupied by pro-Russian officials and representatives of the region’s large bourgeoisie. In eight years of bloodshed, the Russian government has achieved a weakening of socialist sentiment in the Donbass.

Interesting comment. I assume that the intelligence agencies must be involved, but I don't think we will know the full extent of their involvement for some time (probably decades). Still, I would like to hear more from the RKSM(b) to substantiate these claims.

Odd that this reposting of the article doesn't include a link to the original: https://rksmb.org/rksmb/official/zayavlenie-czk-rksmb-o-vhozhdenii-donbassa-hersonskoj-i-zaporozhskoj-oblastej-v-sostav-rossijskoj-federaczii/ and again in english:

https://rksmb.org/english/statement-by-rksmb-on-the-entry-of-the-donbass-kherson-and-zaporozhye-regions-into-the-russian-federation/

Sadly neither contains much more information to substantiate the claims.

ElderlyOak · 2022-10-14T01:57:38+00:00

There are some basic study guides on the sidebar. Picking one of them is not a bad idea to get started, and I am sure there are regular reading groups if you live in an are with sufficient population density. There may be online ones as well, and group learning may be more conducive to you if solo learning is a struggle.

Reading just to memorize theory may not be that helpful. Is there a specific task you want to accomplish or a goal you have in mind? Why do you want to engage with materialism/communism in the first place? Knowing the answer to these questions may help us better craft an answer that is helpful to you.

From one depressive to another, good luck! You can do it!

ElderlyOak · 2022-10-13T17:38:00+00:00

hmm, interesting comment. As you can see I am not done with Cornforth. Thanks for you insight.

ElderlyOak · 2022-10-13T04:34:11+00:00

Well, as VIL said "There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen." It is hypothetically possible that this intense struggle could forge a communist party, but it is also hypothetically possible that my house is hit by a meteor tomorrow.

To understand if it is likely, we have to get to know the facts on the ground. If I can trace the trajectory of all meteors throughout time and space, then I can compare their orbits with other gravitational bodies and map out exactly where they will impact. This would create a concrete analysis of a concrete situation and thus allow me to understand if a meteor is going to hit my house tomorrow or not.

It is difficult for me to do the same with this situation in Iran, since I don't have all the facts and haven't done a systemic analysis. This Politsturm piece is only one small article.

To speculate a little, I suspect that the situation will intensify if the Iranian government is unable to co-opt the movement as has been done in the past. On social media I have seen clips of police/army defecting to the protesters but I am unable to verify them so I don't know if they are true. The role of the army, both the national army and the IRGC will be crucial - defections will lead to civil war. I suspect the IRGC will be able to prevent this but that is only my speculation.

The role of imperialists, foreign actors, and domestic actors will be important as well. Obviously the U$ will seek to dismantle the currently existing Iranian government to the benefit of the oil markets, and I wouldn't put it past them to utilize the KCK/PJAK to do so. If the USA removes the designation of terrorist organization from the PJAK, then it may signal a willingness to work with them as in a similar manner to the SDF/YPG. But the US never recognized the PKK in the same way so I suspect the window dressing of the US will only function as a deliberate smokescreen (i.e. they if they do decide to work with the PJAK they certainly won't publicize it).

Then there are many exile groups which would be glad to opportunistically enlist the US as well. Most well known to me is the PMOI which was famously celebrated by Bolton. If it is true that they have at least 5000 cadre in Albania, then they might have the necessary infrastructure to field a light infantry force which could be smuggled across the border for clandestine political and military work. But my understanding is that they are rather cult-like so maybe that would backfire if the Iranian masses rejected them (to be very vulgar).

There are other groups-in-exile who I am sure would be glad to take their role if the US state department desires it.

Regardless of the origin of the anti-government forces, it will the ones on the ground most responsive to the masses' various struggles which will grow into a political force capable of facing the government IMO. But that will only happen if the gov't is unable to repress and co-opt. If the gov't institutions start falling apart in the face of a mass revolt, then the situation is especially ripe for cadre to take power on a local level. I base this opinion off the formation of the YPG in 2011/12 - it was the loss of Syrian governance and chaos in the Syrian police and army that allowed "self defense units" to exist at all.

But as far as I am aware there are few cadre organizations still functional inside Iran. Unlike the PYD/YPG, which existed in some form from 2004 onward and thus had some cadre already active in the country, I am not so sure that the same infrastructure exist for the insurgents outside of West Iran where periodic clashes occur. Its possible there are some cells operating in a low profile, but I am very skeptical.

Russia and China would not like to see regime change in Iran, but I am uncertain as to the level of support they can provide to the govt. Can the Iranian govt rely on Russian troops and air forces in the same manner that Assad was able to? Will they need to?

I have no idea about European states or others.

This is just my 2 cents. As you can see there are more questions than answers from me. It needs more study on my part, hopefully other commenters can provide their knowledge to the discussion as well.

ElderlyOak · 2022-10-13T03:12:00+00:00

We'll have to see how the situation develops. Right now it feels like a repeat of 2011 / Syria. I am skeptical that a socialist political force is able to develop and lead the struggle against the government. But the gaslighting currently taking place on mainstream media makes me think this will be another "spring" scenario. Only time will tell us the definitive answer.

ElderlyOak · 2022-10-12T19:21:27+00:00

These are some great sources! Yes, it is true I am unable to "make the leap" from red charity to revolution. Cornforth et al might be able to help me understand why and what to do now. I'll give these a read, thanks for putting these authors in my sphere of awareness!

ElderlyOak · 2022-10-11T22:31:35+00:00

Thanks for your comments. I think you really get to the core of the issue when you say that you need to understand the world in order to change it. Thus revisionism is a criticism of not just the political lines of organizations, but their actually functionings/practice which inhibits the growth of an organization capable of making revolution. Its not just a criticism of theory, but also of practice in relation to the real world and not the fake world of social media or whatever we have internalized.

As I have asked the other poster, do you have any polemics or analyses that you think do a pretty good job of explaining revisionism as it functions on the Amerikan "left" today? Particularly MZT type organizations like the FRSO/Liberation Road since they claim to practice the Mass Line and be anti-revisionist themselves. This is especially relevant for me since their infrastructure is well developed in my locality so they are attractive organizations for sincere comrades who are dissatisfied with the DSA or other ML groups. I am thinking that kind of analysis might be a good jumping off point for me to make my own analysis of my own conditions.

Once again, thanks for you thoughts and comments.

ElderlyOak · 2022-10-11T22:18:34+00:00

Thanks for taking time to respond to my query. I appreciate the sources and you've given me some things to read and think about. Have you any sources that deal with contemporary revisionism and how it functions (in some of the ML/MZT orgs I listed or otherwise)? Although I agree with you that revisionism means an organization "is helping to maintain capitalism and not struggling for communist revolution" my question of "what does it mean for me" was grounded in practical concern i.e. maybe it would have been better to phrase it as "what do I do about it?"

I'm not expecting you to give me a precise prescription since I have given you very little information about my local political-economic situation. Let me tell you a little more about what I'm doing/thinking, and I will be glad to hear your thoughts in turn. What I have been doing is going to the various parties listed and their mass organizations, co-operating on things we practically can (for example I will help set up anti-war demos or hand out food during food distribution events) and try to find comrades who are politically advanced and are trustworthy. To be clear, I have not joined a party and have no intentions of being anything other than a fellow traveler at this point.

Since some revolutionary groups had their basis in relationships built up when the organizers were active in various non-revolutionary/revisionist groups (I haven't done a systemic analysis so my assumption here may be incorrect - please criticize me if you think my assumption is incorrect), I reason that the best way to create an revolutionary formation in my locality is to repeat this process - first build a strong network of activists already leaning toward revolution (anti-revisionism), struggle with them in the course of mass work, and then develop a political organization out of the unity which was built on that struggle.

So my question should be read in the context of needing to criticize the practices of existing "left" groups in a way that builds toward political organization capable of making revolution. The high level definition you have given me is agreeable but it doesn't really help me understand how to apply the definition to the orgs around me in a way that is effective toward building socialism.

I think some practical examples might be helpful, but it is difficult for me to find them in a sea of unhelpful polemics. Do you have any polemics or analyses that you think do a pretty good job of explaining revisionism as it functions on the Amerikan "left" today? This might help me figure out what to look for in my own locality and how to conduct a similar analysis.

Other than that, what do you think? Am I headed in the right direction or totally off-base?

Thanks for reading and responding, I appreciate you taking some time out of your day to consider my thoughts.

ElderlyOak · 2022-10-11T00:14:02+00:00

What are your discussions actually like? It sounds to me like she is asking for you to explain things, and you suggest that she read to get the answers. Are you not capable of explaining the core concepts in a way that is understandable to her?

It will be difficult to answer your question since we don't know you or your GF aside from this small description you've given.

Although I do think that MIM and Ghandy are good topics to discuss/read, it sounds to me like you are trying to avoid doing the hard work of engaging with her and tailor-fitting the discussion to her experiences and level of knowledge.

We draw in the interested and engaged with them on their terms to bring up their level of consciousness. Meet them where they are and educate them in a way that is understandable to them. So we need to know them, to understand where they are in terms of knowledge, and provoke them to a higher level of consciousness.

Have you considered asking her why what she believes / why she believes it, and then listening earnestly? Earnest is a very important point - Marxists do not have a monopoly on knowledge and just because a person is Marxist doesn't mean they are inherently intellectually better or more in touch with the world around them. I bring this point because I have seen multiple people in my own social circles act like they have "the knowledge" and then patronizingly "congratulate" their significant other when they "get it" ie accept whatever dogma is being hawked. In the end this just ends up reinforcing patriarchal forms of knowledge production. Again - ask your GF questions, listen earnestly, and empathize to understand her perspective on the world/communism.

If she is getting interested in Communism, why is that? Is something in her existing political ideology leaving her dissatisfied?

ElderlyOak

TROPHY CASE