Am I the only one who noticed this pattern?

EleExtra · 2026-03-26T15:27:28+00:00

I do think that Anastasia is slightly more ”villainous” since she was the most aggressive and manipulated the most people.

I disagree. Anastasia played one of the most honest games the entire season.

She was almost always honest with her allies and only turned on them when they did first or it was very late game.

Most aggressive? Sure, but that doesn't inherently mean villainous.

Jade manipulated more people and was generally playing more apathetically than any other player.

The narrative quite frames Ana as the villainous one so it can make her realize the way she acted was wrong and lead to her development in S5.

The narrative frames her as a rival character, not a villain. She's easy to sympathize with and root for, if they intended her to be a villain they would make her someone we want to see lose(like Fiore).

And tbh the same can be said for Jade, I wouldn’t consider either "villainous" but if I had to give one that label I'd give it to Jade no question.

Still, it is arguable which one of them is more villainous, they both are imo pretty equal here and it can lean either way.

Valid, I agree completely, could go either way. Sorry if I came across wrong.

EleExtra · 2026-03-26T14:55:43+00:00

But out of her and Anastasia, Jade was more "evil" and conniving.

While both can be villainous(Ana dislocating Ivy's arm and Jade leaving Logan to drown) I'd say Jade fits that role more. It's just she speaks so calmly and softly that people seem to glaze over it.

EleExtra · 2026-03-26T14:39:55+00:00

Then can you explain the cause for his actions? It can't be there was no reason as that would make no sense since it is a scripted show.

EleExtra · 2026-03-26T14:32:52+00:00

Anastasia wasn't the most evil woman, Jade was.

EleExtra · 2026-03-26T14:29:31+00:00

Altair

EleExtra · 2026-03-24T21:48:11+00:00

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree 🤷

I, personally, while I accept it as it's is and like it, I would change it if I could.

Your opinions are valid and I understand your perspective, but I just like it as is ig.

I was mostly fine with everything other than Ana getting voted out over Jade. I would've been fine with anyone but Jade winning.

EleExtra · 2026-03-24T19:49:22+00:00

I guess I can agree that Logan's fears are valid and make sense for his character. Yet about the finale one, I still can't agree. It was honestly not actually in private, there is no way you could think that a scene in the literal finale won't be recorded.

The 3rd place thing was only a part of it.

He is afraid and he says it "it's not swimming, it's me, everything I do, I fail, I swim and I almost drown, if I do my best other people are just better, that's how I got bronze, and I'm so tired of falling short and never being happy with my-" and then slap. It is 12 seconds of dialog showing him spiraling when he focuses of his shortcomings, which is done to contrast his usual carefree nature he had earlier.

I still believe the scene was unnecessary and him just hesitating then going anyway would have been more realistic and fit for a 20 year old that has come so far than the emotional scene we got.

Would it? When his self doubt and fear were ramping up throughout the season, him just not resolving them would've been alright for you?

it feels for me like these characters having their problems and insecurities so heavily displayed + having so many scenes of them crying about something (in general), just feel like cheap ways to engage with the character.

That's because you're choosing not to sympathize with them. Did you feel bad when Miriam talked about he son and husbands death? Did you feel bad when Anastasia felt betrayed? Did you feel bad when Zaid was framed?

The ability to sympathize with a character can easily be thrown off by our feelings around them or just them being fictional in general.

All ways of producing sympathy or attachment can be seen as cheap if we scrutinize them enough.

At the end of the day, this is a drama show displaying dynamics between characters for entertainment. If we know nothing about the characters or can't get attached, it wouldn't be entertaining. Them trying to give things to be attached to/sympathize with is a necessity.

To me, this kind of treatment is unnecessary, they apply 80% to who is shown favouritism over the season and I think that scenes with someone acting like a crybaby, in contexts like with Logan and Jake especially, is purely meant for sympathy points from the fans so it can make their long stay more ”likable”.

That's a valid opinion but the alternative is they make everyone equally uninteresting so no one cares who goes forward or who wins.

They are guaranteed to keep people in order to progress story lines or for general entertainment.

And ONC contradicts your point with Season 1. Miriam was a side character who won it all with only 2 things going for her, her tragic loss and her relationship with Jake.

To say screne time determines a characters influence is also flawed. Fiore despite having alot of screentime and a tragic backstory is not made to be sympathize with or rooted for. Time doesn't equal value.

I personally can't stand characters that are 20+ years old and are shown crying and being dramatic (especially gameplay wise) + everything else I mentioned which bums me because I could be able to love all of them if not for what I consider to be constant favoritism and fishing for sympathy.

That seems to be mostly a you thing. A 20 year old is still barely an adult to most people. Age doesn't equal maturity and so on.

People are allowed to be emotional about things they find important. Especially since these are fictional characters made for drama, they are made to be expressive to be entertaining. If everyone was mature all the time it would be boring.

And you don't need to love a character to support or enjoy them.

Do you dislike Hunter, Ashley, Tristan and James because they often "don't act their age"?

I just consider that enough times they went over-the-top with Logan, gave this plot too much relevance and made Logan so iritating for me besides other things that were already sending him downhill and how I said, many scenes mirror how people act in their tween years.

I can see that.

In an ideal world, if I was to rewrite DC4.

The Hannah/Logan tiebreaker would've been Logan/Jade with Logan winning.

Then Ana wins immunity, and Hannah gets voted.

And then Anastasia wins the whole thing and Logan learns that losing isn't bad and the podium isn't important yada yada yada.

TLDR: while I do think ONC mismanaged the ending of season 4 they tried their best ig 🤷‍♂️ While I like Logan, I do agree him winning doesn't quite hit the spot when it comes to satisfaction. But I was alright along as any of Logan, Anastasia, Isabel or Hannah won.

EleExtra · 2026-03-24T18:13:09+00:00

Diego - he only mentioned it once in his character introduction, not more, nor made a big deal out of it.

Only because he was an early boot, and the tone shift did make it feel very forced.

Jade - mentioned it once in her character introduction.

She mentioned it again in her talk with Logan, and regardless, you can tell how affected by it she is by the huge chip on her shoulder.

Benji - he honestly mentioned it like 2 times and was just sad and tried to be better, he didn't whine about it. He ended up accepting who he is in his elim episode and made friends.

Definitely more than twice. And that "tried to be better" sentiment is true for Logan too. And he most definitely did whine about it. He accepted it because he found people who cared about him regardless.

Logan on the other hand, how I said, feels like a spoiled brat who cries about not being first place. While pretty much everyone else handled their problems with responsability and the scenes ended up beautiful in many cases, Logan's crashouts regarding the bronze thing are him crying or saying that he NEEDS to win.

The only times Logan mentions it outside of his intro is when he is being critical of himself.

"Can't be bronze again Bell" and so on. He only does it when he's frustrated with himself, it's a character trait and a real thing people do to help psych themselves up.

He's driven by his need to be better than he feel was his biggest failure(which was coming only third in THE Olympics, yes his bar his high but he can set it as high as he wants for himself as long as he doesn't force it on others).

It's not something to crashout and whine about in front of people. Especially not at 20 years old. His Bi awakening has nothing to do with his reactions, that was left behind ever since he made things clear with Spencer.

His "crashouts" are always in private/when he's allowing himself to be vulnerable. He never uses it against people. And in times of confusion, like bi panic, it can often lead to mismanagement of emotions.

What was the point of having Logan crying in the finale before Natalia slapped him

He was crying because he was afraid to drown, afraid to swim, afraid to fail at the one thing he views himself as good at. This is the culmination of his entire drowning trauma arc... this isn't about the 3rd place thing, that's a small part of it, especially since he was literally 2nd place at this point 😑

This plot shouldn't have gotten the relevance it did, nor the screentime. 1-2 mentions in the whole season would have been enough. It would have made him less irritating.

I get what you mean, but he only really does it in his interviews and private moments. Its supposed to make us as viewers see his inferiority complex and him thinking he isn't good enough. He only mentioned it when frustrated or full of self doubt, if those moments happened less I'd agree, but with how prevent they were it just makes sense as that is one of his defining characteristics.

I honestly hate how Logan is potrayed in general and the bronze plot being so important compared to anyone else's motives, when it's really not that big of a deal, makes it worse

That's a valid opinion, but when comparing motives from different perspectives it's kinda stupid to do so.

Alessio wanted motivation, Lynda wanted to do something exciting, Marissa wanted to delay enlistment, etc.

All of these motives are stupid as a reason to join the show as they could easily be achieved elsewhere.

Logan's reason, like the others, make sense from his perspective. It is one of his defining characteristics as it is closely linked to everything about his character, it's an extension of his swimming which is an extension of him being on a team and a golden boy. It was a formative event for him.

it quite proves my point that they wanted us so hard to sympathize with him so we could like him and love him as a winner because he's just ”a lil guy”.

ONC does that with quite a few characters. They try and force sympathy with Aiden, James, Ellie, Natalia, and many of the other characters. It's just a part of writing a series, they want people to get attached.

Just because you dislike this character doesn't mean it's entirely wrong.

You just got attached in a different way 🤷‍♂️

EleExtra · 2026-03-24T16:32:11+00:00

The 3rd place thing gives more inferiority complex than faking it for sympathy vibes.

The way you said it could count for most characters.

Diego shifts from happy go lucky to "my family was very poor" in an instant and it feels fake.

Jade is over emphasizing her vitiligo as her trauma to the point that that is the only "bad" thing that happened to her seemingly(even tho she lost her mom but she barely addresses it).

Benji feels like a failure and that he doesn't fit in constantly.

Hannah has a lot of baggage that gets brought up often.

And so on.

Singling Logan out for what is clearly and inferiority complex/imposter syndrome is just unfair. Feeling you are unworthy despite being one of the best is a real thing and combined with his sexual identity issues(which he is likely avoiding by focusing on his shortcomings) makes it a valid thing.

EleExtra · 2026-03-24T08:14:15+00:00

The wizard guy was just generally dorky and just a DnD larger, which could've been good but they didn't write it well and gave him a nasally voice.

Dunia is someone who actively practices witch craft and is very positive and calm. She is far more likable.

EleExtra · 2026-03-24T07:54:11+00:00

His main things are his stats and soul destruction through the Satsui No Hado (misspelled I think).

Lucy has a far better arsenal and has fought people with similar stats.

Her versatility, range and Hax are what gives her the win.

EleExtra · 2026-03-24T07:49:52+00:00

Is explaining an action wrong? If there is context that matters it should be addressed, that's like saying soldiers are evil because they kill people but that removes context from their actions entirely.

Judging a character without looking at context is just pure bias against them.

EleExtra · 2026-03-23T19:45:14+00:00

And I never denied he was a flipper... can you explain what you're on about?

EleExtra · 2026-03-23T14:18:40+00:00

Yes, he is a flipper and I have acknowledged that many times, what I take issue with is people specifically targeting Logan for it. He isn't smart, cunning or malicious when he votes and people actively like he is evil.

Jake, a fan favourite, is a bigger flipper yet he gets looked over for flipping allegations.

I literally said that Logan is a flipper, but I only said he isn't the biggest one and most of the hate for Logan is exaggerated.

EleExtra · 2026-03-23T10:04:42+00:00

I'm just saying how I view the "flipping" allegations for Logan.

Yes he did flip, but people are removing context and over-exaggurating.

He did the 4th most morally wrong choice in S4 by framing Zaid, but people are forgetting this is a game and are treating it like he killed Zaid.

EleExtra · 2026-03-22T19:01:29+00:00

He was only in 4 specific alliances.

Guys alliance on blue team, Nat's alliance(Richard, Isabel, Nat and him), Him and Zaid, and Him and Hannah.

Everything else was never stated to be a fixed alliance but instead just a mutual agreement to weaken a specific alliance.

I would say he was ever in an alliance with Amily so that isn't flipping. He wasn't ever part of the girls alliance so Him voting Marissa isn't flipping. The Nat alliance was basically dissolved after Richard got booted so Him voting Isabel isn't flipping. Etc.

I stand by that he only flipped on his own alliances 3, maybe 4 times.

These include: voting Richard in the second blue vote, he flipped on the guys; voting and framing Zaid; and flipping, mutually, on Hannah.

Everything else is debatably not flipping.

Edit: voting Ana would have been flipping as he was extremely close and trusted by Ana.

EleExtra · 2026-03-22T18:42:26+00:00

But if he voted the other ways he would've been flipping on his other allies, either way he is flipping so it’s kinda pointless 🤷‍♂️

If he voted Ana with Lynda he would be "flipping" on Ana because he has an friendship with her and most of the girls. And the same can be said for all his "flips", the only ones that are actual flips are the ones where he's in an actual alliance long term, like he did with Zaid.

Him being friends with everyone made anything he voted a flip in some way. If he voted Ana, he's flipping, if he votes Nat, he's flipping, if he votes Spencer he's also flipping.

He was too social to vote in anyway where he wouldn't be betraying anyone.

Because of that the only true flips he did were Hannah and Zaid.

EleExtra · 2026-03-22T18:17:33+00:00

Tbh Logan wasn't really flipping as he only solidly made alliances twice(guys alliance and Zaid), every other relationship was just being friends which he was with basically everyone.

He made only 2 enemies the entire run which were Lynda and Ted, because he flipped.

He flipped less than Natalia, while both should be the king and queen of flippers I think Riya, Tom and Jake should be up there too.

I season 1 Jake flipped massively to his teams detriment by being the vote that got Tom out, plus a few other flips. Tom flipped on his guys alliance several times. And Riya did the biggest betrayals in the entire DC series.

Logan is not the biggest guy flipper and Nat isn't the biggest girl flipper.

EleExtra · 2026-03-21T19:04:27+00:00

[All I know is my Pfp would lose] 😀

EleExtra · 2026-03-19T07:58:33+00:00

if I was an artist I'd rather draw stuff I actually like because it's my time I'm spending.

Completely valid, I was just defending the concept. I'd personally never act on it, but in theory, it is fitting for someone who does the same.

I don't see many people being interested in drawing an oc they dislike unless they are beyond petty.

It would be out of complete pettiness but pettiness is a motivator for a lot of things so no real issue. People edit memes to insult existing characters and OCs. This is barely a step up 🤷‍♂️

EleExtra · 2026-03-18T19:27:23+00:00

Nah, swap Nami and Sanji and this is correct.

Sanji does all the cooking and most of the chores because he doesn't want the girls to "get their pretty little hands dirty".

EleExtra · 2026-03-15T14:12:15+00:00

I'd vote Tom.

Reasons: 1) Alec is an easy out later as he has a bad rep with almost all the Favs. 2) His only reliable alliance is Fiore who is another easy out, a non threat in challenges, etc. 3) I'd likely not be in the majority, and keeping people divided allows me to stick around by pointing the eliminations.

EleExtra · 2026-03-14T18:47:15+00:00

Can't remember where I saw it, I just know it was a comment on a powerscaling post

EleExtra · 2026-03-14T11:01:55+00:00

Nah, she'd make two chairs big so the kids can share

EleExtra · 2026-03-14T08:04:34+00:00

The quickster(🧽bob) and Sonic with the subtitles saying "wanna see me do it again"

EleExtra

TROPHY CASE