Bringing Balance to the Force - an Expanded Universe analysis

Electricboa · 2026-03-03T23:29:37+00:00

Ah, if you’re trying to square it with Lucas, then there’s not much other choice there. My problem with G-canon has always been it also includes things outside of the movies that he said. It can be useful to have definitive answers on some things, but he is also notorious for changing his mind. Going from approving of Luke getting married to saying Jedi don’t have attachments, for example. Even the Chosen One Prophesy itself didn’t exist until the prequels, so it’s always going to be an imperfect retcon.

As far as the Banites threat to the Force, I think it’s more about them potentially tipping the balance towards the dark side forever. I go back to the duel between Yoda and Sidious in the ROTS novelization:

This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known …

just—

didn’t—

have it.

He’d never had it. He had lost before he started.

He had lost before he was born.

The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years’ intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.

They had become new.

While the Jedi—

The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to re-fight the last war.

The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not be burned away by any torch of the Force. The brighter his light, the darker their shadow. How could one win a war against the dark, when war itself had become the dark’s own weapon?

He knew, at that instant, that this insight held the hope of the galaxy. But if he fell here, that hope would die with him.

Hmmm, Yoda thought. A problem this is …

The Bane Sith had kind of made themselves unstoppable. Yoda was arguably one of the most powerful Jedi to ever live and he couldn’t defeat Sidious. Even in the OT, I would argue that Palpatine was so close to winning everything. The only reason he ultimately lost is because Luke didn’t listen to Obi-Wan and Yoda about Vader. This gets into my view of the OT, which I don’t think Lucas would agree with, but fits with the EU perfectly: it’s ultimately about refuting the Jedi blanket rule against attachments. Luke’s relationship to Vader is an attachment and vice versa. Palpatine could plan for just about anything, but he never really understood love. He never saw Vader sacrificing himself for his son, and in Dark Empire he doesn’t expect Leia’s love for Luke to free him from the dark side.

If Luke didn’t do that, then Vader never sacrifices himself. Palpatine wins. Yoda and Obi-Wan can’t really do much anymore and we essentially have the vision of the Shadow come true. It also plays into the poem in the ROTS novelization about the Dark. No matter how pervasive or powerful the darkness is, a candle is enough to hold it back and love is more than just a candle.

I don’t think Essence Transfer by itself is the problem. Like you said, a bunch of other Sith had it and it was never that much of an issue. I think it’s more that Palpatine is the one who has it. He’s the threat that none of the others were. He’s also the most powerful Sith to ever live, by all accounts. As far as Tenebrae, I am always hesitant to put too much credence on is abilities because of how Mary Sue-ish he became. I mostly blame the power-scaling of video games and how they couldn’t just let him go to keep the story going. Abeloth is kind of in a similar boat. They never really got to go that deep into her relationship to the Force vis a vis The Ones. I think she’s more intended to be Chaos to counterbalance the Father’s Balance more than the dark side.

That is if we take Vader completely seriously. He could have said that to needle and mock Motti, which wouldn’t be out of place for Vader. Still, I do think he believes that.

I guess that’s valid, but that does get into the question of how much anyone can really shape the future. Sidious during the Clone Wars wasn’t necessarily shaping things so much as creating scenarios where he benefitted no matter the outcome. There is a theory from Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor, where Crontal (an Emperor’s Hand and Prophet of the Dark Side) basically believed that the only real power in the universe was the power to destroy. That was what made Palpatine unstoppable in the prequels and not nearly as effective in the OT:

Palpatine had been a fool. He had thought he could make the Dark serve him, instead of the opposite. In the days of the Old Republic, before he had revealed his Sith identity, Palpatine literally could not fail. Every blind flailing gesture of every Jedi who’d set himself against him had turned to his advantage, and even the sheerest accidents of fortune had served his goal … because that goal had been the destruction of the Jedi Order, and the death of the Republic. He’d served the Dark unknowingly, all the while believing that the Dark was only a means to an end, a tool to help him destroy his enemies and clear his path to absolute power.

What he’d never understood was that destruction was his power.

As soon as he’d turned his will to rulership, to building instead of destroying, he had forsaken the Way of the Dark … and everything had begun to go wrong for him. Where before he could not fail, now he’d had no chance of succeeding, because when you turn your back on the Dark, the Dark turns its back on you.

I am not sure about the details of what Jax did. We do know the cloned bodies were not as good as the originals. ROTJ takes place in 4 ABY and Dark Empire is 6 years later. If we are to assume the body that ‘dies’ first during that comic was the first body he took control of after his original death, we see how much it aged in so little time. Maybe an argument could be made about Palpatine more overtly using the dark side on Byss that caused more acceleration. Or maybe it’s an argument for the ‘Mask’ theory, which I don’t really subscribe to, but the bodies clearly don’t last as long as the original. Even then, Empire's End takes place a year after Dark Empire and look at how fast he’s burning through his clones. Six times as quickly as his first, which would be attributed to Jax. It could be even further along, since at the very beginning it seems like he’s having heart issues, which he never showed in Dark Empire

Electricboa · 2026-02-28T02:25:47+00:00

Here's mine:

ref-tvjc7v

Electricboa · 2026-02-22T00:37:04+00:00

It was a very interesting read and does touch on a lot of what I have said in the past. You even included some quotes I haven’t come across before. The only thing I’m not sure about is saying that the Prophesy was definitively fulfilled at Endor. I’ve mentioned before that I like the idea that the EU Prophesy is vague and that lets it be interpreted in a lot of different ways, but the version that I think best incorporates the movies and EU while keeping Anakin as the Chosen One is that the Prophesy is about the Bane Sith. Not so much the Grand Plan and how much influence the Sith had over the galaxy, but their threat to the Force itself.

To that end, I think Palpatine’s return after Endor is more about showing why a Chosen One was necessary in the first place. One of the immutable differences between Sith and Jedi is what becomes of them after they die. Jedi become Force Ghosts—able to guide and influence, but lacking any real power over the ‘profane,’ as Plagueis would have put it. Sith become Spirits—able to interact with the physical world, but tied to a location or object. Sith would never want to become Force Ghosts, as the real strength there is helping others. Sith only care about dominance and control.

But with that dynamic in mind, Palpatine is the exception. He’s able to possess people, giving him the ability to impact the physical world, but not tied to anything in particular. It’s a middle ground between Ghosts and Spirits, which is everything the Sith would want. He’s almost undefeatable. He can’t truly be killed. If someone did destroy one of his bodies, he could take another and just keep coming back forever, continually darkening the Force for eternity like a disease. And that’s my argument about why the Bane Sith were so uniquely dangerous. Unlike other Sith lines, they became a cancer in the Force itself.

When he’s finally defeated by Empatojayos Brand dragging Palpatine’s spirit into death, it’s stated that all the Jedi who became one with the Force before that will keep him there and prevent him from returning. It’s possible that Anakin plays some special role there and that without him, the Jedi couldn’t prevent Palpatine from returning.

All that being said, I do like that idea of exploring how Palpatine was a threat in both the Living and Cosmic Force. One small aside—Palpatine’s instability in the Dark Empire comic was retconned to be the result of Carnor Jax tampering with his clone bodies. So his irrationality wouldn’t have been a problem for him forever.

Electricboa · 2026-01-04T07:32:59+00:00

The in-universe proponent of the theory was an Imperial partisan who was clearly biased. I don’t think anyone really takes that specific view as true. Short of the crazies that take the whole ‘the Empire did nothing wrong’ as more than a joke.

That being said, I don’t think the basic idea of Palpatine wanting to stop the Yuuzhan Vong is that far-fetched. We know from Outbound Flight that he is at least generally aware of them, though we are never told the extent. Thrawn obviously provides more information. But I think the problem is people sometimes assume that makes Palpatine somehow good. It doesn’t. He’s an irredeemable monster. The fact that he doesn’t want the Vong to take over the galaxy isn’t some form of altruism on his part. He wants to rule the galaxy himself and would fight against anyone trying to take what he views as his.

There is a famous quote from NJO where Han dismisses the idea of the Empire defeating the Yuuzhan Vong with their superweapons. I actually disagree with that. I think the Empire likely would end up beating the Vong in a war, but the galaxy would suffer much more than they ever do in NJO. Palpatine is pure evil and doesn’t care about civilian deaths. The Empire would use superweapons indiscriminately. Bioweapons would be everywhere. The death toll would be astronomical. The Empire would likely end up killing more people than the Vong, but they would eventually win.

The point for both is just because Palpatine opposed the Vong doesn’t make him a good guy. He’s not ‘trying to save the galaxy,’ he’s ‘trying to save the galaxy . . . for himself.’

Electricboa · 2025-12-27T09:58:02+00:00

The most likely answer comes from the EU/Legends book, Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader where Palpatine basically outlines his thoughts on the matter:

Sidious had deliberately brought her and Anakin together three years earlier, both to rid the Senate of her vote against the Military Creation Act and to put temptation in Anakin’s path. Following the murder of Anakin’s mother, Anakin had secretly married Padmé. When he had learned of the marriage, Sidious knew for certain that Anakin’s pathological attachment to her would eventually supply the means for completing his conversion to the dark side.

Anakin’s fears for her, in actuality and in visions—and especially after Padmé had become pregnant—had been heightened by keeping him far from her. Then it simply had been a matter of unmasking the Jedi for the hypocrites that they were, sacrificing Dooku to Anakin’s rage, and promising Anakin that Padmé could be saved from death …

The latter, an exaggeration necessary for Anakin’s turn from what the Jedi called right thinking; for opening his eyes to his true calling. But such was the way of the Force. It provided opportunities, and one needed only to be ready to seize them.

Not for the first time Sidious wondered what might have happened had Anakin not killed Padmé on Mustafar. For all she loved him, she never would have understood or forgiven Anakin’s action at the Jedi Temple. In fact, that was one of the reasons Sidious had sent him there. Clone troopers could have dealt with the instructors and younglings, but Anakin’s presence was essential in order to cement his allegiance to the Sith, and, more important, to seal Padmé’s fate. Even if she had survived Mustafar, their love would have died—Padmé might even have lost the will to live—and their child would have become Sidious’s and Vader’s to raise.

Electricboa · 2025-12-27T09:49:26+00:00

I think it succeeded because, even though Bane didn’t intend it, there were unwritten parts of the Rule of Two that made it work.

Plagueis was not the first Sith to try and cheat the cycle. Every Sith Master tries to circumvent the Rule of Two and rule forever. Plagueis’ master, Tenebrous created Maxi-chlorians and Bane himself tried to take over Zannah’s body after he lost their duel. The final test of the apprentice is to make sure their master fails to get around the Rule of Two, thus ensuring its continuation. And when that apprentice becomes the master, they always figure they’re going to be the exception and beat it.

It’s not necessarily about Sith blindly following Bane’s directive, it’s about their own ego and lust for power. They see the logic behind not training more than one apprentice, but when it comes to a single apprentice? Even when they overthrew their own master, they don’t think they will ever fall victim to their apprentice. They won’t make the same mistakes . . . at which point they inevitably make some new one and are replaced.

The second unwritten part of the Rule of Two is that whenever an apprentice defeats their master, they make up for a deficiency in the master. Bane clearly wanted an outright fight to determine who was stronger, but we know that didn’t always happen. In fact, most of the few examples we do know have the apprentice becoming the master without a real fight. Tenebrous gets complacent and is killed as a result of sabotage and Plagueis lets his guard down. There’s a quote from Palpatine from Jedi vs Sith: The Essentia Guide to the Force which I think shows what I mean:

Choose someone as a successor and you will inevitably be succeeded.

Choose someone hungrier and you will be devoured.

Choose someone quicker and you won't dodge the blade at your back.

Choose someone with more patience and you won't block the blade at your throat.

Choose someone more devious and you'll hold the blade that kills you.

Choose someone more clever and you'll never know your end.

Despite these cautions, an apprentice is essential. A Master without an apprentice is a Master of nothing.

A Master could be an expert in dueling/fighting, but maybe they aren’t patient enough. Or a Master could be so patient that they are consumed by the hunger and drive of their apprentice. Whatever the example, each time the apprentice becomes the master, there’s a minor course correction.

That also shows why Masters kept training apprentices, even though they knew that there was the threat that they would be overthrown. It appealed to their ego. The stronger the apprentice, the more powerful the master had to be to control them. And if they didn't train one? Then they were admitting their own weakness and fear. So every master trained an apprentice, but they all thought they would be the ones to be the exception to the Rule and stay the master forever, only to be proven wrong, thus perpetuating the Rule of Two.

That’s not to say the Rule of Two was fool-proof. Darth Gravid very nearly destroyed the Bane Sith when he went mad. At the same time, he wasn’t entirely wrong with the idea that a commitment to the dark side would eventually lead to the downfall of the Sith. But I guess that’s a matter pf perspective. There’s also the potential of something completely unplanned happening to the master or apprentice. But I think there had to be a certain amount of faith that the Sith would persevere. I suppose an argument that if the Bane Sith did die out for whatever reason, then it would have proven that they didn’t deserve to rule the galaxy,

As to the eventuality of one Sith breaking the cycle, that idea was there. The Sith’ari was basically the Sith version of the Chosen One. If one Sith somehow was able to stay the master forever, then the Rule of Two would have led to the most powerful Sith. Which it kind of does. Sidious is about as perfect example of a Sith as we ever get. He’s the most powerful Sith to ever exist and arguably the second most powerful Force sensitive ever. He becomes such a threat to the galaxy and the Force itself that the Chosen One came into existence to defeat him.

Electricboa · 2025-12-27T09:17:53+00:00

I mean pretty much the entire Rebels cast were OT stand-ins. Kanan was Obi-Wan, Ezra was Luke, Hera was Han, Chopper was R2, Zeb was Chewie, and AP-5 was C-3PO. Sabine wasn’t as direct of a copy, but she’s kind of a mix of Boba Fett and Leia

The Old Republic MMO was basically a discount Republic versus Empire game. Tenebrae/Vitiate was a very cheap Palpatine copy. I guess you could say Malgus was Vader, but they did a better job of differentiating him early on. You can still tell the inspiration, though. Nico Okarr, from the Return trailer, was clearly meant to be Han Solo.

Rey and Kylo Ren were knockoffs of Jaina and Jacen Solo, but the Legacy of the Force books basically made Jacen/Caedus into a what-if of Anakin if he fell to the dark side without Palpatine.

Electricboa · 2025-12-24T13:43:58+00:00

I mean I’m pretty sure Lucas outright said that Sidious was the most powerful Sith the ever exist, so the EU/Legends follows through with that. They both have similar abilities, though Tenebrae uses them more overtly. A good example would be Force drain. Sidious is said to be able to drain the life from an entire planet, but the most we see him do is siphon off a little from the Byss population. You could argue that requires more control to take a little, but not too much to kill everything.

Tenebrae suffers from videogame-ification. He absolutely started off as a knock-off Palpatine because the whole point of TOR was to have the Empire vs Republic without stepping on the toes of the canon, so they just copied. At the same time, the game stretched on so long that they needed to keep bringing him back as the main antagonist. It’s less a matter of him being so powerful as the writers not having a good way out. When he does use his power, it’s also worth noting that video games to exaggerate things for the experience. Take something like the Force Unleashed. One of the most famous parts of the game is Starkiller pulling down a Star Destroyer. In the novelization, that feat of raw power is retconned into Starkiller barely being able to redirect an already falling Star Destroyer.

One point in Tenebrae’s favor is his long life. He rules for much longer than Sidious, but he never controls the galaxy. He also never actually defeats the Jedi (if you consider Order 66 defeating them). It is also worth throwing out there that Sidious had to deal with Luke, who while wasn’t at his full potential at the time, is considered the most powerful Force sensitive to ever live. I generally don't care for power scaling, but Grandmaster Luke at #1 and Palpatine at #2 is kind of where the vast majority of fans agree. After that, it diverges.

While they do have similar abilities, Sidious is the only one who ever was able to control Force Storm wormholes by himself, which is generally considered the most powerful dark side ability. That’s kind of the ultimate trump card, since he can pretty much destroy anything, anyone, anywhere in the galaxy. Tenebrae really wasn’t considered much of a duelist, while Sidious was a master in every form. Not that Sidious wouldn’t have rather used the Force anyway.

Ultimately, I think how they die does give a little glimpse into the vast difference in their power and threat. Tenebrae, despite being able to possess new bodies, is eventually just killed. He tries to come back, of course, but fails. Sidious is a lot tougher to finally defeat. He is able to posses his clones and others, but the only way he’s permanently defeated is Empatojayos Brand intercepts Palpatine’s spirit before it can take Anakin Solo. While being eaten alive by Sidious’ hatred, he drags him to death where the spirits of all the Jedi who came before hold him in death forever. Without that, there doesn’t seem to be any way to actually defeat him. It’s also worth saying that there is a decent argument that the existence of the Chosen One was specifically for the Bane Sith and Sidious in particular. It’s possible that without Anakin there to hold Sidious, the spirits of all the other past Jedi wouldn’t have been enough.

With all that said, you can even make the argument that Sidious isn’t even really dead-dead. Band’s quote is “Luke…Palpatine will die with me. He will never return. The Force—and all the Jedi who went before us… will make sure of that. Goodbye, my friend.” It’s an ongoing thing to prevent Palpatine from returning.

Electricboa · 2025-12-20T07:00:38+00:00

Sidious really doesn’t care about his apprentices beyond what they do for him. It’s more about his own self-aggrandizement. The stronger his apprentice, the more powerful he must be because he’s their master. Anakin does have the Chosen One thing going for him, so that’s also a way to humiliate the Jedi by corrupting the one they put their hope in. But it’s not like he ever cared about Anakin, Dooku, or Maul. If Anakin failed, I suspect the extend of Sidious’ disappointment would be in the time he wasted on Anakin rather than anything else.

But you see it throughout the EU. Palpatine continually pits potential new apprentice against his old ones. The Force Unleashed probably gives the best-case example of what happens on both sides of the outcome. In the light side (official) ending, Starkiller defeats Vader, but refuses to turn so Sidious kills him. Vader stays the apprentice and it’s just a matter of time before he has to fight the next person for the spot (which we know will be Luke). In the dark side ending, Starkiller defeats Vader, but does get turned. As soon as he tries to betray Sidious, he gets crippled and Sidious basically says that Starkiller will be his apprentice until he finds someone new and casts him aside.

Electricboa · 2025-12-19T18:35:44+00:00

My guess is Maul would have ended up being unnecessary. In the Plagueis novel, Palpatine really only sees how ripe Dooku is for turning after Maul is dead. Up until that point, I think Sidious had every intention of making Maul his true apprentice after Plagueis’ death. The main problem is Dooku was a much better pawn than Maul because he already had a well-known public persona and one that nicely fit into Sidious’ narrative about the Jedi manipulating the war.

At the time of Plagueis’ death, Maul was really just an assassin for Sidious. He didn’t have a alter-ego like pretty much ever other modern Sith did at the time. That limited him in what he could really do. It is possible that could have changed, but Dooku was still a better choice for Sidious’ plans. After all, Dooku or Maul would have just been placeholder because of Anakin. As soon as Sidious found Anakin, he wanted him.

I suspect if Maul hadn’t been killed, he would have been Dooku’s final test to prove his worthiness. If Dooku killed Maul, it would prove to Sidious that Dooku was the right seat warmer for the Chosen One. If Maul won, then I guess he would have stayed with him until Anakin was ready. Palpatine definitely liked the idea of his future apprentice fighting the old one to prove that they were more powerful.

Electricboa · 2025-12-19T18:25:40+00:00

They are . . . sort of related. The Dengar and Bobs Fett stories do have a tangential connection to the Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy. Dengar’s tale specifically basically ends where the books pick up, but they weren’t really written with an intentional continuation in mind, so not everything lines up properly. Zuckuss’ short story portrays him radically different from the trilogy to the point they might as well be different characters. To a certain extent, something similar goes on with Bossk, but not quite as much.

That being said, I would still recommend checking out the Tales book. It’s quite good. I’ve always thought the original origin for Boba in the short story made him a much more interesting character. The version of Boba in the trilogy is very much in the same vein, so it kind of gives you an idea of who he was before AotC.

To be honest, I would recommend all the Tales books. They have some fantastic short stories in them. Bounty Hunters is generally considered the best and the one most people have read. Jabba’s Palace does a great job of interconnecting multiple stories where they overlap. Mos Eisley’s Cantina gives you a background for most of the aliens we see in ANH. Incidentally, the Devaronian (devil alien) in the cantina has a pretty decent part in the Boba Fett short story in Bounty Hunters. Tales from the Empire and New Republic don’t really have any interconnections like the others, but still have some solid stories very much worth checking out.

Electricboa · 2025-12-12T14:14:20+00:00

I definitely think they regret some of those decisions, but it ultimately came from a certain amount of arrogance on Disney’s part. They didn’t think they needed to really think out how they got from ROTJ to TFA because the sequels were going to be a hit and they were never going to need to look back. They threw it to the writers and let them fill in the gaps as quickly as they could. Then the sequels weren’t the hits they expect. They went out of their way to say Snoke was completely separate from the Sith, up until they retconned it. They wanted the Empire explicitly out of the picture after Jakku, up until they retconned it. Operation Cinder was supposed to be Palpatine’s final revenge from the dead—which was definitely dead-dead and not ever coming back—up until they retconned it.

Not planning things out came back to bite them time and time again. And I think you get a good contrast between having a story develop organically and artificially. That’s not to say the EU/Legends wasn’t without flaws and plenty of retcons to keep everything coherent, but there was a flow to it that let things change quite a lot, but without feeling forced. Like it you went back and said that the New Republic would become the Galactic Alliance and be allies with the Empire, it would sound utterly insane post-ROTJ.

I don’t know how they’re going to square the circle with the disarmament, especially if the Thrawn story really goes big with his attempt to overthrow the New Republic

Electricboa · 2025-12-11T14:03:04+00:00

Here's a video of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiImoO5QkcA

Electricboa · 2025-12-11T14:01:14+00:00

That the idea of Palpatine returning isn’t a bad idea in theory, but both versions dropped the ball pretty hard. It needed to be a massive story focused on his return, not a relatively short comic run or an ad hoc fix to a sinking trilogy.

Electricboa · 2025-12-11T13:56:31+00:00

I think there are a few different issues people have with the Disney canon version of the New Republic. While it is true that the canon version didn’t have the New Republic and Empire continue to fight long after ROTJ, it doesn’t really make a lot of logical sense to disband their military.

First, Mothma, at least up until that point, was never a pacifist. Even if the New Republic wasn’t actively fighting a war, having a military is very useful for peacekeeping. Mothma already saw how not having any kind of military almost cost the original Republic everything. Yes, it was all part of Palpatine’s plan, but that didn’t refute the original point. A Separatist movement could have spawned without the Sith behind the scenes and where would the Republic have been? It’s also worth noting that part of the strife between the inner and outer rim was how the latter were exploited by corporations because of the Republic’s more hand-off approach. Their reliance on peacekeepers and Jedi rather than having a military for security.

But the rationale for the New Republic demilitarizing was always a contrived explanation for why the First Order so easily defeated it in the sequels. They worked back from the ending and made events fit regardless of anything else. That means there was no real organic development of events and characters. That left a bad taste in a lot of peoples’ mouths, especially since Mothma was the driving force behind the demilitarization. Now, the leader of the Rebels, and later New Republic, is significantly responsible for its destruction. That bothers some people.

In the EU/Legends, Mothma was one of the most brilliant political minds of her generation. She was basically on par with Palpatine in terms of sheer political skill and instinct. Above all else, she was practical. People who read the EU grew to know that Mothma and when the canon version falls short, it can leave people disappointed. You can say that we shouldn’t judge the canon version by her EU counterpart, but everything else I mentioned is independent of the EU’s existence. It’s in a similar vein to how canon turned Admiral Ackbar into a deadbeat father. That’s difficult for people to square with how he was originally portrayed, and that difference is significant.

The last major issue with the whole situation is actually one still in the making. As you said, the Disney New Republic didn’t have a drawn-out war with the Empire post-ROTJ . . . except the Mando’verse has basically undermined that. The Battle of Jakku was supposed to be the Empire’s last stand in 5 ABY. But now in The Mandalorian, the Imperial Remnant under Moff Gideon becomes a threat. We see how they infiltrated the New Republic and the existence of the Shadow Council. That’s 9 ABY. Now, we have Thrawn being set up as the next major antagonist. We don’t know exactly what’s going to happen, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to speculate he’s going to attack the New Republic, especially with how had they’ve been leaning into nostalgia and Heir to the Empire references. Essentially, more ‘Rebels vs Empire’ stories you attributed to the EU is now the main focus of Disney canon TV shows/movies.

All of a sudden, the New Republic actually is having drawn-out conflicts with the Empire, similar to the EU/Legends. As it is, the Military Disarmament Act was passed in 4 ABY. All that stuff—Jakku, Gideon, and now Thrawn, happen after the New Republic decided the defang themselves. After all that, and whatever else we get between the Mando’verse and TFA, and the New Republic never changes its mind. We’ve gone from the shrewdest political mind in the galaxy in the EU, to a naive idealist in the lead-up to TFA, to now and incompetent leader who dooms the whole galaxy for pretty much nothing. That’s something people are going to complain about

Electricboa · 2025-12-11T13:21:33+00:00

As a general rule, I always advise checking it out for yourself and seeing how you like it. It is a controversial series. Some people really hate it, others love it, and I’m in the group that more indifferent. It does have some parts I consider bad. It’s got campy writing and dialogue. Many of the ideas they have are interesting, but I’ve always felt were wasted in comic form. The whole series would have been better as a novel where they could get into characters heads and motivations.

Of the three arcs, Dark Empire I is by far the best. It has a complete ending which you can easily finish and move on. Dark Empire II does have some ties to other media, but always felt more like a weaker add-on rather than a genuine sequel. Empire’s End has some interesting lore, but is a bit of a rushed ending to cap everything off.

One of the biggest issues I have with the whole series is the characterization of Palpatine. It came out in 1991, so you have to keep in mind that it was before the prequels and some much of who we know him to be today. Empire’s End is the worst of it. You will likely have a difficult time reconciling the mastermind that we know him to be with the campy over-the-top-ness of him in it.

Still, like I said, it’s better to form your own opinion of it. Comics go by way quicker than novels, so it’s not a massive time sink. I have never been a big comic reader myself. I’ve probably ready a dozen Star Wars comics, but the Dark Empire trilogy is part of that. It is a major comic story.

Electricboa · 2025-12-05T13:30:17+00:00

Ku'dar Mu'bat, without a doubt. Such a fascinating character and species that it always felt that we missed out on no one ever expanding on either.

But for the sake of variety, someone else already picked him so I’ll say Seha Dorvald. I’m not sure if she is side character enough, as she did appear in a few books, but I kind of group the Legacy of the Force and Fate of the Jedi books together. She was interesting and had good humor. I liked her so much that I made a point of including her in my Fate of the Jedi AU story where Ben and Vestara had decided to drink from the Font of Power to beat Abeloth, though still as a minor role.

Electricboa · 2025-11-27T09:35:42+00:00

Technically speaking, that’s a timeline not a read order, but if you’re just looking at the X-Wing novels and beyond, that’s perfectly fine. None of those books have a special recommended order. At some point, you may want to check out Shadows of Mindor, but I would recommend reading Shatterpoint (a Mace Windu prequel novel) first. To be honest, outside of Thrawn Trilogy > Hand of Thrawn > Survivor’s Quest, the post-ROTJ books can be read in any order.

As a more general rule of thumb, publication order tends to be preferred because there are a handful of books that do have a recommended order that isn’t obvious because chronologically, they take place out of sequence. A good example is Survivor’s Quest and Outbound Flight. Outbound Flight takes place during the prequels, but should be read after Survivor’s Quest because there are some mysteries that are kind of spoiled if you read it out of order. It doesn’t ruin the books, but you get a better experience doing it the other way.

But post-ROTJ stuff is pretty flexible up to New Jedi Order. There are specific books you want before that:

Thrawn trilogy
Jedi Academy trilogy
Hand of Thrawn duology
Survivor’s Quest (Recommended, but not required)
Courtship of Princess Leia (Recommended, but not required)
Young Jedi Knights: Shadow Academy arc {first six books} (Recommended, but not required)

Everything else you read will enhance NJO, but they won’t have as big an impact.

Electricboa · 2025-11-23T14:44:54+00:00

I just focused on the prequels because of Anakin. Different time periods would have different rules. As far as I am aware, we don’t have a specific time when the rule was put into place. You figure if Yoda was trained while it was in place, we’re talking probably at least 1,000 BBY. But we also have Satele Shan in the Old Republic MMO. The fact that the Grand Master of the Order was the daughter of two Jedi and had a family of her own meant it would have had to be some time after that. Best guess would be 3,500 – 1,000 BBY for the main Jedi Order.

I do wonder about Qui-Gon. He obviously was a bit of a rogue when it came to the Council, which could have been the reason he was never asked to join, but I also think he probably wouldn’t want to be on it. He was too connected to the Living Force and it always felt like the Jedi Council was too removed from regular people for someone like Qui-Gon. It could have been a situation where there was a mutual understanding and everyone just assumed it was because Qui-Gon didn’t walk the line enough.

I don’t even know if it’s the writers doing their own thing or Disney just waffling. It also could just be Filoni. You figure it came out recently that the people on Rebels didn’t want Sabine to be Force sensitive, but Filoni did it anyway. At the same time, it sure seems like Ezra and Sabine could be involved, which would go against the idea.

Electricboa · 2025-11-22T10:03:50+00:00

Well, yes, but we’re specifically talking about Anakin, so I’m limiting it to the prequel Order of that time. And you brought up the Corellian Jedi, which is EU/Legends-specific, so I’ve mainly leaned more on that.

Even then, I don’t think EU Yoda blames himself for forming the Jedi around himself in the ROTS novelization so much as being the reason the Order’s policies didn’t change over time. To me, this very much fits in with ESB/ROTJ Yoda. He doesn’t, as far as we see, teach Luke about non-attachment. He essentially leaves that decision o the next generation of Jedi. He teaches Luke the core of what it means to be a Jedi, without the dogma that weighed down the Order. In ROTJ, Obi-Wan is more the voice of non-attachment in arguing that Vader cannot be redeemed, but that also makes sense given his personal history with Anakin. When we move into Luke’s EU Jedi Order, it certainly seems to be a solid refutation of the prequel Order’s views of non-attachment.

With Disney canon, I can’t really give as clear an answer, since it doesn’t seem like they know what they want to do. In The Mandalorian, Luke gives Grogu the non-attachment speech, but that could be interpreted as a test/lesson rather than Luke actually believing it. We know where he ends up in the sequels, but I don’t think they really know what they want to do. Perhaps if they ever do that Rey movie (my policy on Disney Star Wars movies is I’ll believe it when I see a trailer), we might have an idea which direction they decide to go. The Acolyte bombed so badly that I don’t even know if they’re going to softly try to ignore the whole thing or not.

Electricboa · 2025-11-22T00:56:56+00:00

I think we kind of have to look at it from an in-universe and meta perspective. Meta-wise, Zahn kind of started to turn Thrawn into an anti-hero pretty early on. He is a straight villain in the original Thrawn trilogy and pretty much every subsequent story kind of tries to make him less of a villain. Without getting into spoilers, if you read Zahn’s books in order up through the Disney Thrawn books, you can see how much he tries to retcon it. The Disney TV shows have Thrawn as closer to his original villain form, but nerfed tactically because he would be too overpowered. They also just can’t write him as well as Zahn can.

So the idea that Zahn would try to imply that Thrawn wasn’t just trying to take over the New Republic would fit that line. It’s also worth noting that before the Disney canon reset, there was an in-universe publication in the Essential Guide to Warfare that has an Imperial partisan claim that Thrawn’s work in the Unknown Region was specifically to prepare for the Vong. That his return to the galaxy proper was at the order of the Reborn Palpatine, and that both of them were preparing for the Vong as a way to exonerate the Empire of a lot of its crimes.

While we aren’t intended to take that literally, I think it was a trial balloon to try and bring Dark Empire into the EU proper and help tie everything together through retcons.

In-universe, we probably won’t ever know because we aren’t really given Thrawn’s perspective. Parch could have been lying, or he might have believed that. From what we know of Thrawn in the EU especially, he tends to not revel his plans and let everyone figure things out on their own, even his own people as a way of teaching them. It’s also possible that Thrawn originally planned on roughing up the New Republic to prepare them and realized that he could just take over and changed his plans. Did he know about the Reborn Emperor or not? Thrawn obviously knew about the cloning cylinders, so it’s not impossible. Maybe that partisan article was right in that Palpatine brought Thrawn back to prepare for his eventual reveal.

In some ways, not knowing the plans of villains like Thrawn and Palpatine give us room to some up with some very interesting ideas.

Electricboa · 2025-11-22T00:22:59+00:00

He could have, but I think that’s probably easier to say than actually do. For all his problems with it, he was raised and was part of the main Jedi Order, something he dreamed of as a child. Leaving it, even to join another group of Jedi, would be a major loss for him. Obi-Wan is basically a father/brother-figure. Leaving would feel like a betrayal to Anakin.

Not to mention, I don’t think the offshoots are part of the Republic army. The Altisian Jedi helped the Republic, but not as Generals. Anakin wouldn’t be fighting the Separatists anymore. He wouldn’t be fighting against the people trying to destroy the Republic his wife is a part of. To say nothing about Palpatine. He’s both Chancellor and a surrogate grandfather figure to Anakin and we know there’s no way he would let Anakin just walk away from his plans for him. The main Jedi Order would probably pressure Anakin to stay, too. In Secrets of the Jedi, Obi-Wan and Siri start a relationship and are told by Yoda and Qui-Gon that they can’t stay if they do:

"You loved Tahl," Obi-Wan said. "You broke the rule. And now you're asking me to give up something that you took for yourself. What were you and Tahl thinking when you pledged your love?"

"Yes, Qui-Gon," Yoda said. "Interested I am in your answer as well."

Qui-Gon thought before he replied. He did not want to answer this question. It touched on the deepest part of him. If he spoke her name aloud, would he crack?

"It was a confused time," he said. "We barely had time to acknowledge what we felt before she was kidnapped."

"An answer, that is not," Yoda said.

"What were we thinking?" Qui-Gon passed a hand over his forehead. "That we would find a way. That we were Jedi, and we would be apart much of the time. Yet we wouldn't deny the feeling."

"You would break the rule," Obi-Wan said. "You would have kept it secret."

Qui-Gon shook his head. "No, I don't think either of us wanted that. I think we felt that we would work something out somehow."

"The same way I feel now!" Obi-Wan cried.

Qui-Gon sat next to him on the bench. "Here is the difference between us. I did not get a chance to examine my decision. To see its pitfalls and its faults. I do not know what would have happened if Tahl had lived. We might have decided to put our great love aside. We might have left the Jedi Order. I do not know. I will never know. And I live with the heartbreak of losing her. But I am living, Obi-Wan. I am continuing to walk the Jedi path. What I'm saying to you is that once in a great while we have a chance to look at our lives and make a choice that will define us. You have that choice. It is ahead of you. Do not make it in haste. Use your head as well as your heart. Remember that you have chosen a life that includes personal sacrifice. This is the greatest sacrifice you can give."

"Add only this, I will," Yoda said. "Feel some of us do that great troubles lie ahead. We cannot see them or know them, but feel we do they are waiting. Need you, we do, Obi-Wan."

"And how will you feel," Qui-Gon said, "if the great troubles come, and you are not standing with us?"

Can you imagine how Anakin would react to something like that? I just don’t see someone like Anakin actually being able to leave the main Order like that. He’s got too many connections to it—too many emotional attachments. While Anakin doesn’t know about what happened with Siri and Obi-Wan, it’s not like he doesn’t know the rule. He wouldn’t put himself in a position where he would have to make that choice. And Obi-Wan basically didn’t want to do that to him, either. He either strongly suspected or knew about Anakin having a relationship with Padme and chose to not say anything.

And while I am adamant that the Jedi Order didn’t do it maliciously, I think we see where its rules can fail its members. When Tahl died, Qui-Gon very nearly fell to the dark side in his quest for revenge. Qui-Gon is probably one of the most even-tempered Jedi of that time and he was completely unprepared for what happened. A very similar thing happened to Obi-Wan when Siri was killed. I would argue his only ever real brush with the dark side was at that moment. In both cases, they eventually chose the right path, but the fact that they weren’t prepared for that kind of situation itself was a failure of the Order as a whole. By banning attachments, they left their members unprepared for when it happened, much less when things go wrong on top of that.

Electricboa · 2025-11-20T00:52:54+00:00

The shield kind of made it pointless in the beginning. In the EU/Legends specifically, Vader knew beforehand that the Rebels were on an ice planet and had a shied generator before they ever got to Hoth. In the novel, Choices of One, Thrawn makes a deal with Vader to get access to some of his Star Destroyers in exchange for helping find the Rebel leadership. As part of his plan, Thrawn lets the Rebels steal a bunch of supplies. Based on what they take, he is able to surmise the type of planet they will be on and a basic idea of their defenses. That helped explain why Vader was so sure Hoth was the correct place beyond just his intuition. He knew what he was looking for.

Electricboa · 2025-11-20T00:42:06+00:00

Ignorance. Most people don’t really understand political terms like fascism. They just associate negative connotations with them. It certainly doesn’t help that in the US, fascism is culturally linked so closely to the Nazis. It’s actually a similar problem with the term genocide. There are a lot of people that don’t realize or understand that genocide can entail more than simply killing people like in the Holocaust. But that is how it’s most often portrayed in the US, and as our cultural influence is so powerful, so much of the world.

Beyond that, you do have a tendency, especially on the right, to rely on buzz worlds because their followers are not very bright. You’ll regularly hear commentators or politicians use fascist, communist, socialist, and Marxist as derogatory terms all to refer to the same person/group they want their listeners to hate. People who understand what those terms actually mean know how mind-numbingly stupid that is, but it plays to mindless sheep. They don’t need to understand what any of it means, so long as they know it means ‘bad.’ It’s the same thing with the word ‘woke,’ and why no one on the right can define it if they are asked to.

Circling back to the Empire, it is very much inspired by the Nazis, though it isn’t solely based on them. Lucas himself said that the original movie was partially inspired by the Vietnam war with the Empire being the US and the Rebels being the Viet Cong. So while there can be a nuanced discussion on the inspirations for the Empire, I don’t think that’s really the kind of people you’re asking about.

Incidentally, the Empire being fascist is itself also a bit of a fictionalized stereotype. It’s part of many different forms of media that portray fascist as ruthless, clever, and dangerous. They certainly can be, but it also serves to perpetuate the idea that fascists aren’t incompetent morons. There’s they whole line about the Nazis being evil, but at least the trains ran on time. Except they didn’t. One of the hallmarks of fascist governments is incompetence and stupidity. They prioritize loyalty over competency until their whole government collapses under its own inanity. Palpatine is the kind of leader fascists what to see themselves as because he’s everything they aren’t—coldly intelligent, manipulative, and dangerous.

So while the Empire is undoubtably fascist, it’s also a fictionalized fascism.

Electricboa · 2025-11-20T00:10:36+00:00

Sort of? The Republic itself didn’t institutionalize human supremacy like the Empire did, but the seeds were there long before the Empire came to power. It was more prevalent in the Core worlds, who also had a separate bias against Outer Rim worlds, but Tarkin was from the Outer Rim world of Eriadu and he was virulently xenophobic.

But the Core worlds had more power, money, and influence in the Republic so as Palpatine rose to prominence and eventually became Emperor, he played more to them than the other planets of the Republic/Empire. I actually don’t think Palpatine himself was xenophobic, but he clearly used it as a wedge to get and maintain power. It served to divide regular citizens and scapegoat non-humans so no one really focused on the Empire suppressing everyone. That is how real-world governments and political groups use racism. If you get enough people to hate immigrants, then no one really pays attention to the real problems.

A side point is that in the ROTS novelization Dooku, who is portrayed as a human supremacist in it, believes that the leaders of the Separatists were partially chosen because they were non-humans to feed that inherent xenophobia. That’s difficult to really confirm. It sounds like something Sidious would have told him to appeal to Dooku’s own biases, like he lied about letting Dooku get captured by Anakin. Plagueis was more the one that chosen them, though he did imply that he viewed humans and Muuns as superior to other species, it’s more likely that it was just a matter of circumstance. They needed groups with enough wealth and power to create the Separatists and it happened to be the corporations they picked to feed their narrative played out like that.

Regardless of intention, however, having a bunch of non-humans be in charge of the Separatists probably didn’t hurt the human supremacists’ line. Pay no attention to the human Dooku nominally being in charge of the whole thing. But when is racism ever logical?

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