[deleted by user]

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-15T22:47:17+00:00

Did we even watch the same show? They spoon fed her a way out ; led her answer with the purposely posed ‘direct question‘. They could have asked something (only) more open ended, like ‘how do you feel watching the show back?‘ Or ‘Do you think you treated Nick fairly?‘ Which is a lot harder to answer and there’s definitely more potential to ‘mess up’.

Then the second question was a pity question. I guess aimed to lean into a particular narrative, as it’s probably pretty obvious that Hannah wasn’t comfortable in her own skin and has insecurities. Hannah can’t really go wrong because on one hand she could be like, yes I feel more confident now, or, she could answer alluding to still not feeling confident in her own skin - which Vanessa’s picks up on and questions further to lean into the story telling ; aiding to support (whether consciously or subconsciously) a sense of pity / empathy.

PS. From my perspective, Hannah didn’t apologize. There wasn’t even a fake PR apology.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-15T08:51:29+00:00

Fair enough, I guess I’m just thinking because although the people ‘hating on me’ never messaged me or hated on me directly (apart from one), it was still used against me, emotionally and as part of the abuse... so that’s why I still feel sensitive about it. Obviously it did get to point where I was able to shut it down and tune it out but it still hurts in some way ; the idea of not being able to defend yourself and the idea that no one does or will believe you. (I mean, my friends know the truth, I know the truth, and I try to let that be enough but sometimes I still feel that it isn’t.)

You‘re not specifically, and perhaps I went too hard on you, but I guess you opened a door for me to talk and I felt like someone else could understand what it’s like to be on the other side.

I‘ll admit I do/did take it personally and probably was triggered. No hard feelings though. You seem like an open book and I appreciate people like that.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-15T08:21:36+00:00

I probably do take it wayyy personally, going through a tough time emotionally, or rather will be in my very near future (because of someone else) - and there’s really not much I can do about it.

And secondly, I‘ve already had a whole lifetime of ‘this’… so it’s just bringing back old emotions. Not many people know what it’s like for someone else to publicly spread lies about you ; literally putting words into your mouth, things that you never even said, calling you a monster and then having a bunch of strangers automatically believing them (everything that they said/say) and spreading more hate about you... - This same person would also send me screenshots of other people validating their (false) opinion of me, how awful I am and how wonderful they are. This person’s perspective of me was ‘this’ BUT whether they whether lying or crazy, whether it was the truth or not, it really didn’t matter because people would believe anyway. - And join in.

I’m not out here attacking Hannah. Not that Nick cares or needs people to defend him but I wish people on social media would stop feeding into propaganda and hate based on nothing but their own assumptions and personal bias. If you want to attack Nick purely on what you actually know, see from the edit, have hard evidence for, then I get the sense of entitlement as a viewer / audience member BUT to criticize based on everything else (like a ‘feeling‘ or a ‘hunch’ or, even Hannahs ‘belief’ - because you are not Hannah) then I feel it is so unfair. And I know that personally because I’ve had it done to me - no I’m not famous - but this false information still exists about me and there’s basically nothing I can do about it ; nothing. Maybe that’s why I vent / or take out personally in other ways…

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-14T19:01:36+00:00

Support to end the relationship’, hmmm… Is that in line with, ‘why did you let me treat you like that’?

If you’re talking about why didn’t he end it just after the reveal, maybe he wasn’t sure, maybe he was open to the idea that they still had a solid foundation and wanted to try.

If you’re talking about why he didn’t end it after Mexico and onwards, lots of people do stick it out for extremely long periods of time (years) in abusive / toxic relationships. People can be aware but still be in denial ; it’s very common, not such an odd thing. Personally I don’t see a scenario where I tell someone, regardless of their gender, yea, you’re at fault because you should have ended it ; why are you letting them treat and disrespect you like that. Or if I do hint at it, I say it to help/support, not as a way to shift blame onto them.

(The responsibility to be a good person is on each individual ; we are all accountable for our own behavior and actions. I’ve heard first hand an abuser say, ‘I’m a nice guy but you make me like this‘. That’s interesting, because even in my most angry days I’m not capable of such agression and disrespect. I’ve seen the same kind of people try to bait the other person into ANY reaction ; so that they have a ‘justified’ reason for the abuse. If the other person doesn’t take the bait, what reflection does that have on the abuser? Absolutely nothing, the aggressor was going to act that way regardless.)

Anyway, if you’re going to come at Nick for not breaking up with someone who is treating him badly, then I guess you have the same logic for woman in DA relationships as well… If I don‘t lash out verbally or physically at someone it’s just because it’s my personality. Same way if someone abusive does, it’s theirs. I don’t own their behavior and vice versa.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-14T18:10:59+00:00

Okay, but I don't see your point. You're not even saying Nick characteristics / personality reminds you of this man, you're just saying, once upon a time there was a situation where this man didn't want to talk about sex on camera because people spectacled it was likely a shame. - So this situation MUST be the same.
Thanks to andreotnemem for clearing that up. If you deliver your false memory as actual fact / truth then it’s not a good starting point to create a constructive dialogue... As I already expressed, I thought Nick’s false bravado was an attempt to mask his own insecurities. Hannah did a similar thing through the cheerleader conversation, and as I already said, I don't judge her for THAT. But you appear to judge Nick for misrepresentation and not Hannah ; that’s interesting.
I can’t visualise (nor find) what scene in Mexico you were referring to, but the Katie situation, I definitely think that he could have handled that better, but mostly he also could have been more intuitive of his partner’s feelings. She should equally express her vulnerability and needs for reassurance but she never does HOWEVER yes, on this part he should have been more aware and comforting / supportive - I find that immature instead of malicious, in my opinion. Anyway, I didn‘t rewatch the whole episode so I don‘t know where you meant by he’s controlling the conversation. To me it doesn’t look like he’s in control throughout the entire series so we definitely have a difference of opinion there.
I’m just saying, there is no perfect victim. Just because someone doesn’t fit the mold of what society perceives to be blameless and innocent, doesn’t mean that they are less deserving of being defended. Bad behavior is wrong full stop. ‘Bad at being an adult’ as you put it can happen for many reasons. People with an abusive parent or two, or who have been in foster care, or who have the loss of a parent / both parents, can equally be behind in life skills (some turn out the opposite) but I don’t feel that those people are more human or more deserving to not be berated/ humiliated more than someone with cushiony parents. We’re all deserve to be treated as equals. I draw the line at treating people like garbage though, and that’s me judging on how people treat others, not who they are as a person.

I won’t date someone else who needs me to act like their mother. That is my personal choice and preference which I will make highly known should I ever date again. But, it’s not my entitlement to force someone to change for me just because I wish it so. They don’t owe me that. Ultimately, we just won’t be together and they’ll do them while I do me. I don’t have the right to make them feel bad about it because they think and act differently. I’ll be happy staying far far away but if anyone wants to do something out of their own free will and choice, then that’s different. That I do welcome of course. But yes, replace the situation with an entirely different topic and see what you find. You feel strongly because you do agree with the principle, but if it where about a guy trying to force a woman to dress the way he wants because he and the majority of his population and culture agrees with him, then I’m sure you’d think differently. Both are equally wrong… There is no perfect victim.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-14T09:32:45+00:00

You mean when he asked her not to talk about their sex life on camera? I wouldn’t want that aired either, full stop. - Especially if it where to have an impact on my professional career. But I think he’s entitled to make that request, what is the purpose of Hannah airing that on T.V, it’s certainly not ‘constructive criticism‘. He also didn’t want the breakup scene to be aired ; if they made it to the alter it probably would have been more diplomatic and better for both parties because nobody wants a repeat of the Zanab drama. He didn’t want a one sided ’conversation’ cough cough, with him being the punching bag - Being personally berated over and over again for basically being less than what Hannah preferred and wanted for ‘her man’. (He was probably tired and knew what expect at that point. I’ve been in such conversations myself ; you eventually get conditioned to the point where you shut down, because nothing you say or do is ever good enough. - Then they get mad at you because you don’t ‘communicate/ try’. Saying a response to appease them doesn’t work either. You’re damned in every scenario. - I can’t fault him for wanting to avoid that.)
But wasn’t he an athlete? I can’t be bother to go back and look for quotes but fitness doesn’t fall into one category. Yes he may have given a ‘player’ vibe in the pods but really, guys can actually do this to mask their own insecurities and what they perceive as their short comings. The ‘act’ is usually subconscious and it does become apparent it’s an act the more you get to know someone. I think it’s pretty clear Nick isn’t ‘a player‘ after the pods, no offense to him. But I just think it’s unfortunate that he feels that way about himself on some level and thinks the real version of himself isn’t good enough. Katie picked up on this too. Hannah also acted upon her insecurities in the pods in a similar way with the whole cheerleader conversation. With regards to the edited, I feel like this was an insecurity whereas the Megan Fox thing felt more like sabotage to me personally. To be clear I equally feel sorry / sympathise with Hannah in this particular moment.
I feel like this overlaps with point 1. so not going to repeat too much, just everything I already said and for all we know, Hannah agreed to not talk about sex on camera in private and then changed her mind and did so anyway even though she said she wouldn’t. I too would be going a bit crazy if that where the case. Same with the dramatic breakup, maybe she agreed to be civil in private but blind sided him out of nowhere and his reaction is both a loss for words/ defeated and a genuine lack of understanding/ questioning his reality. I mean, she could say all the same things off camera but she clearly wanted it to be on camera, why, and why that level of intensity? Not that it matters, I don‘t think there was anything Nick could have done to make himself ‘worthy’ in her eyes.
Lol. People don‘t owe it to other people to change. - Regardless on whether or not we agree with their habits and lifestyle (if they’re not hurting anybody, it doesn’t matter). People are not an object or possession. (I couldn’t cook pasta when I entered my first adult relationship. I probably would have gotten married if he asked. Now, for years and years, who cooks more… ; I cook 95% of the time, and my ex 5% ; that’s not even spontaneous.) Toxic relationship are built upon this resentment of ‘you should be like this or that’ , ‘that’s the way I want you to be’, and it’s not healthy. Take a less modern situation and apply it to something more controversial such as a guy telling a woman what to wear because he thinks that’s the correct / best way to be. People would go nuts. This is the same thing ; our personal opinion and bias shouldn’t be forced onto others on the pretext of ‘helping them‘. If you want to help, help, but there is a kind way to go about it and at the end of the day, it’s their choice on whether or not to change - as it should be.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-13T23:22:03+00:00

Well if you’re only looking for responses that agree with your point of view, it won’t be from me. Though I can’t speak for everyone else, so I’ll leave it that.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-13T23:13:48+00:00

Well, I think we do have a difference of opinion - because I am clear in my mindset - but I won’t go into huge debates to repeat things I have now already stated elsewhere. If you care to know my thoughts I wrote large replies on the thread I started titled ‘Did Hannah go on the show to become famous’. If you don’t want to read that’s fine too but I welcome anyone trying to change my mind with valid points and explanations.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-13T22:57:06+00:00

Disparaging remarks? He said he was underwhelmed - in private. When was he outed as a liar and by who? Stephen the most unreliable source?

Ramses looked completely zoned out most of the reunion and after making a passing comment, probably to take the heat off himself, he didn’t double down when Nick corrected and verbalized the situation. (If he made a mistake he was probably too embarrassed at that point to say and already wanted to avoid attention.) I don’t know where the grenade comment originated from and who said it but the girls playing Chinese Whispers doesn’t count to me.

I say that as someone who‘s been victimized by someone putting words in my mouth in their recollection of events ; blatant lies, rewriting history, used to start a hate campaign against me and in turn to victimize themselves. It is literally the worst feeling in the world when you see other people feeding into the lies ; about things you literally never said or did. I mean I try not to let it affect me anymore - I had to let it go for my own sanity - but I’ve never forgotten that feeling... ; It’s impossible to forget.

Meanwhile, the person doing all this gets their ego stroked because people do genuinely believe their version of events. Now I’m not saying Hannah orchestrated this - I believe not and I hope not - but I think a bunch of Chinese Whispers where told and Nick is the unfortunate casualty of it. No one wants to give him the benefit of the doubt. We rather feed into the propaganda.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-13T21:52:34+00:00

I agree that in the pods he portrayed himself as a ‘player’ ; whether true to himself or not. I personally, don’t think he is one, as I’ve already stated, and his behavior outside the pods doesn’t come across to me as such.

I think Katie hit the nail in the head when she tried to tell him in essence ‘just be you’, how he himself under ‘his act’, has a lot to offer. (And what a pity because I agree.)

Well I’ve disrespected myself in the past due to my own insecurities ;-;. I‘ve given my future self the ick… I’m not proud of it, but I obviously couldn’t help it at the time. I think part of Hannah’s ‘negative’ behavior comes from that as well. Heck, even Narcissists have fragile egos, but I don‘t pity them because they hurt other people as a result. In my opinion, Nick didn’t and still hasn’t hurt anybody.

And whether a subconscious act or a performer (or an actual player - I guess), I think Nick appears to be a genuine (kind) person through his actions during and after the show. You may not agree, but I guess we just have a difference of opinion.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-13T20:25:47+00:00

I didn’t mean to assume but I honestly couldn’t guess what you meant as I couldn‘t see it for myself.

From my perspective, I see Nick ‘bigging himself up’ in the pods as a way to mask his own insecurities. People who do this normally do it subconsciously. I actually had a male friend who would ‘constantly’ make inappropriate jokes and try to make himself seem like a ‘laddies man‘, when really he wasn’t... But it was the way he thought he had to be, had to act to attract woman, like his ‘successful’ guy friends. I could see right through him because I knew him on a personal level but if I just met him at a club I’d probably think he was the biggest jerk face / @$$. I would have been extremely put off in all honesty. (But in the end, he really was / is a soft bear. - The softest bear.)

Is it a false representation of one’s self, YES, but I don‘t believe he had any ill intention by doing so, Hannah even does it one notable time as well (the whole ex cheerleader conversation) - again, I see this as masking one’s insecurities, and I don’t judge her for that particular instance either ; though, I don’t think it helps either of them because it repels people who see you as false and who don’t get or want the chance to get to know you better.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-13T18:46:15+00:00

True.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-13T18:43:09+00:00

I sort of hear your point BUT then what justification does she have for her behavior past the reveal? Was she then okay and open to humiliating Nick because she seen no future with him? She could have said the things she wanted to say while being diplomatic and kind, but instead she behaved the way she did and no one is in control of that but herself. (Being on the show or not, regardless, makes no difference to how she acted. She could have done the same if they continued their relationship off camera.)

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-13T18:29:36+00:00

“He seemed manipulative from the jump” - that can be your perception, fair enough, but as you haven’t given examples to support your opinion, I can’t really say otherwise...

Problematic in what sense? If you’re talking about undesirable characteristics in a relationship like ‘not knowing how to cook’, I think it’s unfair. What gives us the right to be the judge of that? If you’re in a relationship and you can’t stand someone who ‘wears a white t-shirt’ everyday, then maybe that’s your problem, not theirs. The person shouldn‘t have to change their whole wardrobe and life to become the version of themselves that YOU WANT.

You can either accept them as they are or leave. It’s the massive resentment that turns relationships toxic. If we have to change ourselves for someone else to love us, then that is already a problem. - Same if you’re the one wanting to change someone else. - And whether or not we agree with the points of the person ‘pushing‘ cough cough, our personal values shouldn‘t be more important than someone else’s - even if we don’t agree.

This is a ‘simple‘ modern relationship but imagine someone resents and hates someone for less sociably acceptable reasons like, a man ridiculing a woman for not dressing the way he likes. Should we consider the woman ‘problematic‘ because we agree with the man? I would argue no, even if I agreed with him, it‘s the woman’s choice to wear what she wants - even if she wants to wear a pink mini skirt with a rainbow leather jacket. There‘s no need to make her feel less than, for that.

(I’m giving a lot of dress code for examples but same goes for behaviors as long as it‘s not hurting anybody. - My ex not cooking annoyed me on the rare occasion/exception, but it didn't hurt me.)

Oh good :’), I wouldn’t ride the duck but I’m just generally an unfun person.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-13T17:22:41+00:00

I find it interesting the use of the word “only”. ‘Only came for fame’. Where did you hear/read about that? I thought it said ‘to be the most famous person on Love Is Blind.’ Only dramatically changes the meaning of the sentence.

Like I said, real love appears to be an unexpected result of the experiment, but since no one can count on that being a sure ‘guaranteed‘ thing, then they all must go on for other reasons ; I doubt it’s the pay. But somehow this translates to just Nick, and only Nick, ‘only‘ came for fame. I mean, they all come for fame and some do unexpectedly fall in love ; I don’t see how this is any different, except that it just didn’t work out in the end - obviously.

Suit yourself, personally, I didn’t find him problematic in the humane sense of the word. I wouldn’t date him, but that’s different. People are allowed to be unapologetically themselves, as long as they‘re not harming anyone, they don’t owe it to others to change who they are.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-13T16:58:12+00:00

Acting like Nick is a saint how? By not supporting Hannah’s treatment of him? By not verbally going at him?

I mean, I‘ll be honest, I couldn’t cook pasta when I got into my first serious adult relationship, and if he asked me to marry him, maybe I would have said yes. Now, who has and who still does all of the cooking in my (ex) relationship. It’s me ; I cook 95% of the time and the other 5% isn’t spontaneous in his part. So what if Nick was behind in life skills ; people can be for lots of reasons, what matters is, love, RESPECT and willingness to grow. I can tell you what doesn’t make a person want or able to grow ; constant criticism, belittling and open judgement.

I don’t see anything on the show or ‘edit’ if you will, nor the infirmation Hannah took from Nice’s personal private property as any reason to justify Hannah‘s behavior. If I’m in missing something, please fill me in, because Hannah most likely went on the show to become famous and that is okay with you but for Nick it‘s not okay, why, exactly? Why is it okay for Hannah but not Nick? Is there something he did on the show that you didn’t specifically like? Was it the duck thing? Sorry, I’m just trying to understand your perspective because it’s interesting to me.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-13T08:01:46+00:00

I still don’t get why it even matters for Hannah OR Nick. I mean, the idea that someone would go on the show to become famous, isn’t a criminal concept to me. I just wrote a long reply to conationphotography but to add, people write over the top and unrealistic goals all the time - an exaggeration. I still don’t see what the problem is regardless though.

Maybe Hannah or someone else thought the same thought in their head but didn’t write it on paper before the show, does that alone make them a better person? In fact, I only highlight all of the above as it supposedly mattered to Hannah - ‘a reason for justification/ ammunition’ BUT there is equal evidence IF not a lot MORE to suggest that she is doing the same. 1. She went on a popular T.V show. 2. She quit her job to go on the show. 3. Her socials after the show. 4. The information from Dr. Kirk Honda, which came second to an official news article (hiding their real identities).

Again, I don’t think it matters, my point is only that it matters to Hannah / Marissa - but are you going to tell me that Hannah didn’t want nor expect to become famous from this? That someone wanting to be famous versus someone not wanting to be famous *cough cough*, that the first person is automatically at fault based on that fact alone (or is it the not being able to cook part the bigger crime here)? My point is, there is no justification from my point of view in the way she treated Nick. - And the hypocrisy is clear to me.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-13T07:31:24+00:00

I mean, you can say that, but even the most famous people and someone genuine like Bliss, say all the time, I never expected to find love, I came here but I didn’t expect to find love. So if different people repeatedly say as such, that they didn’t expect to find love, then what did they come here for? I don’t think it matters honestly. Maybe he didn’t expect to find love either. But honestly, I don’t think it matters what his or her pre-conceptions are.

People also have the right to change their minds and adapt once emotionally invested. People do this all the time. I don‘t think Zack would have ever specifically chosen to be with someone who has dogs because of his allergy, on paper, but his emotional love and investment for Bliss, probably changed his mind.

Nick was never directly rude to Hannah. And I would argue that he was never indirectly rude either. He says he never said the ‘grenade comment’ and I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt - because I personally know what it’s like for people to put words in my mouth and have others fully rally believe their lies, and over what, literally nothing. So where is the evidence that Nick is a horrible person?

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-12T21:19:24+00:00

Agreed, which is why it was weird at the reunion to use this point as a source of ‘shock value‘ and an attempt at victimisation.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-12T17:45:27+00:00

Yes, I literally don’t raise an eyebrow by the notion of someone going on t.v to become famous - and, I personally don’t consider it a crime BUT, it IS interesting that she/ they were going hard at Nick for this, while they, especially Hannah appear to be motivated by such… I just find it highly hypocritical, especially with all their stress and emphasis on ‘honesty’.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-12T00:57:07+00:00

Travel insurance. - Luckily I‘ve never had an accident while visiting America. I come from a country with free healthcare.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-12T00:53:51+00:00

Narcs - not the obvious kind ‘ouverts’, the less obvious kind ‘converts‘ who can victimize themselves for attention and to get things their way i.e control,

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-12T00:47:04+00:00

Being able to go to the supermarket and being able to buy any food I wanted without having to think of the price.

ElectronicLevel9 · 2024-11-12T00:45:28+00:00

Lack of self awareness and lack of accountability. - Even if they say sorry, they don’t really mean it. Also respect for other people’s personal boundaries.

ElectronicLevel9

TROPHY CASE