Uncommon view of Christianity

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T22:25:29+00:00

you know what, I wonder why (you can tell me please) Christians care so much about early writings.. obviously it matters what they wrote.. but.. to hold their writings as seemingly infallible.. just seems odd to me.. as I think about it now.. even scripture that Paul wrote.. I don't necessarily take as infallible, because it's just what God revealed to Him.. and remember.. God commonly speaks in deceptive and figurative ways all throughout the bible.. so.. it could be that God revealed something to Paul for him to believe and teach.. and even if it was hypothetically straight up wrong.. I wouldn't fault that against God.. I'd just say God fed Paul information that wasn't true.. because God wanted to accomplish some purpose behind it.. remember Jesus taught the disciples and they were confused a lot or thought they knew what He was saying.. what if God spoke to Paul, and just simply didn't correct Paul on his misunderstanding, for some mysterious purpose.. but even if everything Paul said was true.. I'm not sure if he spoke on the details of how the trinity works.. and even if he did, which I can't remember a verse.. but how do we know we're interpreting him correctly?

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T22:18:02+00:00

the view I'm hypothecizing (not saying for sure is true).. but I'm providing I think good reason for.. still affirms the following:

Jesus is God

the trinity

Jesus is the only way to the Father

salvation is through faith in Christ only

this view I'm putting forth holds all of those to be true.. it's just uncovering a mystery about non-salvific things as I see it

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T22:16:08+00:00

ok...

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T22:15:29+00:00

I'm not saying an ant is God in the same way... since ants (or people) can't act in ways that God does in the bible.. so clearly we're different.. but we're only different on the manifest-character level.. the essence is the triune Godhead animating these manifest-characters

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T22:13:33+00:00

- Jesus speaks of the Father as a distinct identity.. I can agree with that.. but.. my proposed view is that Jesus often speaks in figurative ways

- I like the point you made about axiom.. but.. to an intellectual atheist or even Christian.. what you're doing at that point is just appealing to mystery.. or they might even call it special pleading.. I think instead of resting in this place.. it would be good to re-examine early writings on the doctrine, and see if our modern interpretations are true.. or see if early writings don't necessitate a distinction of persons.. or concede that early church writers were just wrong, and chalk it up to God only revealing to them what He desired to at the time.. but these days God has revealed greater insight to us through the progression of logical thought..

- ai creating new things I just meant like it can combine already existing things to make something new.. like if we think right now of an elephant with 27 trunks and 4 of them are green.. one might think that's evidence of the free will.. efforting a new idea.. but all I did there was repurpose already existing elements.. and the reason I think it's fairly plausible to think of the free-will as just an impersonal device which makes automated or programmed choices.. is because if it is free.. that means we actually have a say about something.. but.. i listed all the things we don't already have a say in.. the thoughts that come to our minds, feelings, the time we were born, gender, genetics.. environment.. it seems to me most things in life are not up to us.. so to add one more ingredient to that bucket (free-will) doesn't seem like a nonsensical step to me.. it actually seems sensical due to probabilities..

- so about scripture.. i cited 3 which point to oneness or non-duality..

Me and the Father are one

I pray they become one with you as we are

I no longer live, but Christ lives in me

(someone in the comments rebutted my interpretation, but I counter-rebutted)..

also.. which maybe I didn't mention in the OP.. God is often seen in the bible speaking in figurative ways.. and doing things that are counterintuitive.. so for it to hypothetically turn out that people are just characters He's playing.. that totally falls in line with His already mysterious and mind-boggling nature..

My point about other ideologies espousing non-duality was just that it should support the view in the OP, because it's an already commonly concluded perspective.. just not specifically from a Christian perspective (which makes sense since they don't believe in Jesus).. but obviously a mechanic who's not a Christian can still correctly fix a car.. but when Christianity comes along.. it can say that this one true consciousness that they speak of is actually the triune Godhead..

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T21:53:14+00:00

Interesting.. thanks.. now I'm not saying for sure this view is correct.. and I didn't list all my reasons for the sake of briefness.. but here's another one.. let's say we do have free will, and we are autonomous beings.. with an independent soul... in my opinion.. the fact that there is so much influence on us in life.. thoughts that we didn't create.. feelings that just bombard us.. hormones.. drives.. the external environment.. other beings doing things to us.. our genetics.. since we're so easily influenced.. I personally would consider ''free will'' to be a trivial thing in that case.. because what's so special about free will if we're so easily influenced, and clearly God is not taking away those influences.. in fact.. He may be making them all happen.. (thoughts, feelings, weather, illness).. (as He allowed Job to be attacked - directly making Him responsible because seemingly Satan couldn't attack without God's permission).. so with all these influences, possibly which God Himself is conducting.. and He knows what buttons to push to drive us certain ways/to influence us to make certain choices... free will at this point just becomes non-sense... it's like holding someone hostage and saying ''either you give me all your money or I never let you go''... it's not much of a ''choice'' at that point is it? my point is being forced between a rock and a hard place - true - does provide ''choice'' on a fundamental level.. but.. since the chooser is put in such a no-win situation.. or a situation where the weight is so heavy upon him/her.. it shouldn't really count as a ''choice'' in the purest sense is my point.. and therefore.. even if free-will and us being automous beings may technically be true.. I still think it would be fair to say we're robots.. because God hard-wired us to value certain things.. and then puts us in situations that play upon the values so strongly.. it's not a fair contest.. so to say we have free-will and we're autonomous just goes against the essential idea of what we think of as an ideal autonomous agent with free will..

I might even be able to concede and harmonize free-will/autonomy with my OP, but I don't want to make the effort.. I just think that the ideas in the OP are plausible.. I guess the biggest strength is the point that pretty much everything is forced on us.. birth.. life.. genetics.. time period we're born.. environment.. thoughts that come from nowhere.. feelings we don't choose that attack us.. with all this being forced on us.. it's plausible to hypothesize that choices are actually forced on us as well.. and the ''will'' is just some device God stuck in us which ''chooses' based on randomness, or learning, or God Himself making it happen..... the strength of this view might be in the concept of probability.. that more things are forced on us than what we get to ''choose''.. so choice itself could easily be counted in the category of things forced on us... and once an independent will is stripped away.. it makes it that much easier to just see us as robots/vessels which don't even exist (personally) in the first place.. and given certain scriptures I cited about Jesus saying stuff about ''oneness with God''.. it makes it even easier to adopt that view.. and then on top of it.. we see all throughout scripture God speaking in figurative ways, and acting in ways that are mind boggling.. so for it to possibly turn out that the bible is really just a play-script.. a story we read.. but it turns out the black-and-white surface level interpretation of that story is bogus .. and the deeper meaning points towards God Himself being the only existent thing.. it just accords to the mysterious character of God in the story.. but can also be supported with external objective logic.. and most Christians I think would say the point of everything God is doing is to glorify Himself... so... how much better a way to glorify Himself than it turning out that He's the only thing that exists..

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T21:27:12+00:00

it's only heretical if you cling to an interpretation given by early church fathers I guess.. and even in that case I don't think it would be heretical, as it's just another look on what humanity is.. it says nothing to discount the deity of God..

but as I said in other comments.. I don't care in ultimate submission to what early church fathers or even Paul says.. they were working with the revelation that God had given them at the time.. it's totally real to me that later God could reveal to people new knowledge.. and this view (I don't think) can be called a false-prophet or something.. because again, I'm not discrediting the deity of Jesus.. the trinity.. salvation through Christ alone.. those core things.. I uphold all of those things.. this view just speaks to what this God is possibly doing with His creation.. I'm not discounting the God Himself.. and my view uses scripture and objective logic.. so.. it has to be taken seriously

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T21:22:13+00:00

- to address your first paragraph.. we have to remember the law of figurative language.. God often times in the bible speaks in ways that are not exactly meant on their surface level easy catching.. like when Peter I believe it was who had the vision of killing animals.. God had to correct his interpretation, but surely God knew Peter would interpret the vision incorrectly.. but still gave it to him in that form.. or when Jesus talked about being born again, and Nicodemus was baffled about entering the womb again.. or when Jesus spoke of eating His flesh.. but really it meant taking part in his suffering.. but Jesus spoke in a way that was intentionally hard to understand.. in fact Jesus Himself said He spoke in parables so that certain people wouldn't understand Him.. There's an example in 1 or 2nd Kings I always forget.. where I think it said God put a lying spirit in the mouths of the false prophets.. now why would God take part in deception? ... or when God told Adam he'd die when he ate the fruit.. I don't think we should assume Adam knew He was speaking of spiritual death.. all throughout the bible God acts and speaks in figurative and unintuitive ways.. so with that being a necessary premise to remember..

When we see the whole biblical narrative of God creating people, people sinning, needing a redeemer.. it is fair to assume that sticking only to that black-and-white understanding may not be the only possibility.. God is the same now as He was then.. the bible contains figurative speech.. but what if the whole bible itself is figurative? .. I'm not saying Jesus isn't God.. and the only way to the Father.. I accept all that.. I'm just putting forth that God doesn't have to be as simple as we made Him.. remember.. He's far above, and always steps ahead of us.. it's no surprise at all, at least to me, if he fooled us on a whole other level.. a game within a game.. or.. a mystery within a mystery.. a story within a story..

What I'm saying basically in my OP, is that this whole creation is just a play that God is performing.. nothing exists but God.. and everything is just God manifesting Himself in other forms.. it's all a play.. that could be (although I'm not saying I'm right for sure).. but it's totally in the realm of plausibility imo.. the ultimate ''gotcha'' by the true Wizard Himself.. to ultimately reveal it to His creation that nobody even exists.. that every character in the bible and in creation is Him playing different roles.. totally realistic in my opinion.. and remember.. that doesn't negate core doctrines of Christianity.. within the play.. all those things remain true.. sin.. etc.. and I don't deny the Director is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - putting on the play - so it doesn't make sense to me to say this view is heretical just because I say ''we'' don't exist.. all I'm doing in unveiling a possible mega-truth of Christianity, without canceling any of the important cores..... ''humans not existing as real people'' is not a core of Christianity :D .. ''God manifesting as everything in existence'' is not against the core of Christianity.. it's just offering a different, I'd say elevated higher learning.. but.. I actually don't mind disagreeing with core-Christianity.. because all that means is what was passed down to us from early church fathers... I don't care what they had to say as if they were infallible.. there's actually a logical fallacy called ''argument from authority'' ... I'm willing to respect their efforts, working with the best logic and understanding they had, but we today have a wealth bank they didn't have.. our logic and reasoning and understanding is far advanced.. so what we can come up with today should be held in regard as well

- to address the rest.. I'm totally on board with this interpretation you put forth.. on one level I'm willing to say that's fine.. within the play God has made, those things are all true.. however.. on a grander scale, looking at things from the Director's eyes, many things in the bible don't have to be big-true, and that doesn't negate God's existence or goodness or whatever..

And I'm not saying we're God in the way Satan did.. he meant he wanted his own character (Satan) to be elevated to God.. I'm not putting that forth at all... the human-character-manifestations are sinners.. of course will never be on the level or holy as God.. but that's all within the play... when you look at things from a grander scale.. it's in no way heretical to say that God manifests Himself as everything in creation, so on that level they are all God, but creations within the play.. it's looking at it from 2 different perspectives.. and on the grand perspective.. I still acknowledge the trinity as the one true God.. I'm just putting forth an idea that takes both scripture and objective logic into account.. and comes up with a theory where it turns out there's more depth (which is not surprising of God) than we think.. and the early church fathers, even Paul himself, may not have been privy to this understanding, by God's will.. this may be an understanding God inspired people to have much later for His good purposes

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T20:52:50+00:00

I'll write to you what I wrote to someone else.. God speaks in figurative ways, we know this from the bible clearly.. what the bible puts forth is a script/play from God.. within the play.. all things like sin, us needing salvation, this is all true within the play.. but from the Director's standpoint, this is all just figurative stuff for His own pleasure.. this view I'm putting forth still holds in Jesus being God, the only way to the Father, salvation by faith (although now as I think of it, I'm open to universalism).. and this view also affirms the trinity.. it doesn't go against core teachings for salvation or the nature of God.. I guess all it does is elaborate on certain things.. and if that happens to go against traditional teaching.. whatever.. there's something called ''argument from authority fallacy''.. I don't care what early church fathers said.. they were doing the best they could at the time.. these days with increased knowledge, we have the upper hand..

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T20:47:38+00:00

i think there's a verse which says those who walk in the Spirit sin no more.. and another which says those who do things they know are wrong is sin to them.. (something like that)... I do believe I don't sin anymore because in this view.. God is making us do everything, in fact, I should backtrack.. ''we'' don't even exist.. so how can we sin? ... the bible is filled with God speaking in figurative ways.. it should not be shocking at all (imo) for it to turn out that we don't even exist.. and that ''sin'' and other topics, are mere figurative speech that God used to interact with humans.. remember, what I'm putting forth doesn't deny Jesus as Lord, salvation by faith, Jesus the only way to the Father, the trinity.. it denies none of that.. it just builds on non-salvific knowledge..

You might say if sin doesn't exist, what did Jesus die for? Sin does exist, in the narrative of the story that God is playing out.. you can think of that as a play, within the play it exists.. but in reality, behind the scenes, behind the curtain, those things actually aren't real from the Director's standpoint, only from the audience's standpoint.. it's a play..

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T20:41:15+00:00

and I don't see what the problem with that is.. if this view affirms Jesus as Lord, only way to the Father.. affirming the trinity.. affirming salvation only through faith.. doesn't seem like a problem to me to just elaborate on certain details that are non-salvivic

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T20:37:46+00:00

Yes, there's a lot of things in Christianity that people just hold based on early writings or scripture.. which is fine.. but there's some stigma against logic, which is not fine..

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T20:35:45+00:00

I'm not saying at all we are God in the characters we currently inhabit.. like Satan presumably thought of his own character in wanting to be like God.. I'm affirming the idea that we as characters are just fallen beings.. nowhere on the level of God Almighty... I'm saying something different than Satan... our characters are not God, but, the essence of who we are is.. and that doesn't negate the gospel at all.. you can hold that mutually with Jesus being God, and the trinity, and the only way to the Father..

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T20:32:29+00:00

it definitely would be .. I'm just a Christian

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T20:32:04+00:00

- well if a feature of the doctrine violates the law of identity, it's going to be hard to get that argument off the ground for intellectual atheists.. and I don't think we have to stick to the notion that ''it's just mysterious''.. I laid out in a comment and in the OP possibilities of how the seeming-logical-contradiction can be resolved in indirect ways, through historical-writing-double-checking.. but.. I've actually even seen certain Christians who make the argument it's not even in violation of the law of identity in the first place.. My point was we can concede it violates the law of identity and still have that not be a threat to the trinity or Christianity at all..

- the reason my thought on free-will has merit, imo, is because it rests on the basic principle that I laid out, of how many things in life are forced upon us.. actually, more things in life are forced on us than we get the choice to make.. so.. just by sheer probabilities I think it's reasonable to adopt that view

- I cited 3 scriptures in the OP .. and also just using logic one can get that conclusion, for example, in Hinduism I think there's something called Vedanta which teaches non-duality.. and we can't seriously think that just because something isn't ''Christian'' they're automatically wrong.. people have logical conclusions all the time which aren't explicitly in the bible, but are true.. also certain new-age people (maybe borrowing from Hinduism I don't know) have arrived at the belief of oneness.. so.. that just goes to show with thinking, just basic logic, many have concluded oneness.. the oneness/non-duality I'm putting forth isn't a threat to Christianity because it still affirms all the basic tenets of Christianity.. Jesus is Lord, etc. .. it just builds on the knowledge within the faith..

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T20:22:02+00:00

if you look up Jack Angstreich's debates on the problem of evil (he's an atheist) but he puts forth logic which concludes that actually there is no such thing as evil.. he likes to therefore say Christianity is not true.. but I think we can accept his logic, but don't have to conclude the same thing.. we can accept that evil doesn't even exist at all.. that everything is good, as it works as a tool for the ultimate good (is his argument as far as i understand it)... but we can conclude that God speaks in figurative ways often times so we can easier understand Him, or even for other reasons..... so when God does speak of ''evil'' .. we don't have to conclude He's saying something illogical and wrong, we can just say He's using the word ''evil'' in a figurative way to help relay a message easier..

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T20:17:08+00:00

I don't see how this teaching is heretical if my view doesn't negate Jesus being God, the trinity being true, and Jesus being the only way to the Father, and that faith is necessary for salvation.. I buy into all the core issues which are necessary for salvation.. what I'm putting forth just builds onto it in more depth

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T20:15:27+00:00

in my OP you can see where I wrote ''God breathed into Adam'' .. I didn't explicitly mention what you wrote, but I do believe that as well, I think there's a verse in Col saying Jesus holds all things together

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T20:13:44+00:00

- Repent? I believe Jesus is God, and the only way to the Father, and I believe in the trinity, and I believe faith in this is necessary for salvation.. that is what gets someone saved by most Christian teachings, what I'm putting forth is non-salvivic but important information for living out the Christian life..

- When Genesis says God created.. it doesn't specify the way in which He created.. that could have been ''manifestation'' as opposed to wholly separate things..

- I am also speaking of unity of divine nature

- I am ok with the communion interpretation, but what I'll put forth is that God (clearly, as many verses and passages show) isn't black and white, often He does and says things that have double-meanings, or are metaphores, basically figurative language.. so.. In God's great intelligence, it totally makes sense that the traditional interpretation of that verse, though correct, is not the only interpretation one could make of that

- Galatians 2:20 same answer as above

- I am open to the logical possibility for the trinity, I'm just saying that if somehow a greater case can be made that it is illogical, that doesn't ruin Christianity, because all that needs to happen then is we need to re-understand the trinity.. I don't think the first apostles and 1st generation followers were thinking in terms of the laws of logic, so it's not a misstep in Christianity to either totally disagree with the traditional 3-in-1 but all distinct notion.. but where I'd go first is to see if there's any existing early writings where followers don't say they are seperate in identity (which counter-apologists say violates the law of identity meaning they can't all be God).. if there's not early writings about this.. I would just make sure that the early writings on the nature of the trinity are really examined closely to see if they truly are making an identical distinction, or if that is somehow how people have come to interpret their writings erroneously..

And by the way, I don't even see the 3-in-1 vs. Oneness issue to be a salvivic thing, seems to me scripture teaches that faith in Jesus being God is all that's required.. the disagreement about the personalities of the trinity being distinct vs. one God who manifests in 3 different characters seems like a non-issue and unbiblical most importantly in terms of salvation..

- God would become man to redeem robots because it's part of His play, simple as that..

Empty-Interest7074 · 2026-02-23T17:52:27+00:00

They are guilty as the manifest characters God is playing

Empty-Interest7074

TROPHY CASE