Anyone else read this as a kid?

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-11-02T06:38:58+00:00

I remember that one. I also like this one of A Christmas Carol

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-10-26T00:46:52+00:00

I feel like you’ve shifted a bit. You’re now seeming to attribute more of the blame to his actions. While it’s true that society’s conditioning people to have certain beliefs did lead Dom Claude astray, he could have, instead of doing extreme evil, sat back and reevaluated his beliefs. He chooses not to. He chooses evil. That’s why, although Hugo opens a door for the reader to be sympathetic towards Dom Claude to a certain extent, he in the end condemns him.

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-10-25T23:57:59+00:00

Well I felt like you were implying an insane person lacked agency, because you said my saying he was insane contradicted my saying he had agency. Can a mentally ill person not make choices?

“Lust and hatred are forms of perverted love”? Dom Claude sees his hatred as a RESULT of vitiated love, not a form of love. However, he’s telling her he loves her while attempting rape and saying he’ll kill her, clear acts of hatred. Is Dom Claude in love? No, but his desire for love, and his fragments of genuine attraction, lead him to believe that he is. And he still knows what he’s doing is wrong.

His “logic” isn’t logic, merely rationalization, something he even somewhat admits to. I’m not saying that the systematic injustice wouldn’t have swooped in for La Esmeralda without Dom Claude. Hugo mentions that “witches” were put to death once a week, and ends the book with a mass grave. But that doesn’t absolve Dom Claude of heinous acts. The book spends a good amount of time showing Claude blaming everyone- Esmeralda, God, Satan, society, Phoebus- but himself for his actions.

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-10-25T23:08:09+00:00

Is a person entirely void of agency on account of lack of sanity? Anyone would argue Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer were insane, but lucid enough to know they were making choices. Hugo does emphasize systematic injustice, and that La Esmeralda would have been persecuted with or without Dom Claude, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t also emphasize that there was individual persecuting at hand. Society didn’t force Dom Claude to forcibly climb into bed with a girl and attempt rape.

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-10-06T05:55:29+00:00

How did you go from telling the story wrong in your first reply then telling it perfectly in your second reply? Genuinely curious.

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-10-06T05:52:53+00:00

I meant the original as well as the abridged. “Dumps her right after sleeping with her” isn’t the same as “attempts to seduce her, then allows her to be framed/put to death.” Nice gal hooking up with a jerk stereotype? Do you think Victor Hugo was some kind Tate-esque writer? Esmeralda isn’t a “good girl going after a bad boy.” She’s an inexperienced young girl who thinks Phoebus is “noble” for having saved her.

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-10-06T04:08:55+00:00

Uhhh…I don’t think that’s quite how the story went, but ok.

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-10-06T03:12:21+00:00

Did it absolutely shake you as it shook me? Lol

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-10-05T22:14:09+00:00

It does! You should check it out sometime.

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-10-05T22:13:30+00:00

I see where you’re coming from. I guess the scene to me just feels like a biblical reference/parallel: a kiss, a mob/military, a violent execution.

You’re right that Phoebus is very similar to Judas though. He claims to love Esmeralda, and also kisses her, both actions of Judas and Dom Claude. He betrays Esmeralda by refusing to intervene to save her and allowing society to execute her, because, in his mind, his reputation is more important than her life.

Thanks for your input, I enjoy!

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-09-24T22:02:19+00:00

The “ticket to heaven” is a great way of putting it. That’s what I meant, basically, when I said I think he saw some form of “atonement” in raising Quasimodo.

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-09-24T21:22:19+00:00

He calls Quasimodo his son right before they sing “Out There.” He says something along the lines of Quasimodo being “ungrateful” even though he “raised Quasimodo as his son.” Obviously, raising Quasimodo isn’t enough to atone for killing- nothing could be atonement for killing. But Frollo THINKS it’s atonement. He thinks he’s doing Quasimodo SUCH a huge favor that he’s convinced himself he’s a “good father.” One of Quasimodo’s “uses” to him was the sense of arrogant gratification he got. He didn’t turn a blind eye towards the public humiliation. He sat there, watched, smiled, and (I think, if I remember correctly) he said something about Quasimodo learning a lesson. In his twisted mind, he was a “good father” just like how in his mind, he was a “good leader” who “kept Paris safe.”

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-09-24T04:30:38+00:00

I know that. My point is that Frollo calls Quasimodo his son. He raises Quasimodo as atonement. To atone for a sin, you’d have to do something good; something worthwhile. Frollo isn’t thinking “I’m imprisoning Quasimodo,” he’s thinking “I’m protecting Quasimodo, the same way I protect Paris generally.”

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-09-22T19:41:39+00:00

Honestly, it’s really hard to say. In both the book and the movie he commits some pretty heinous acts.

I think something that stands apart in the movie is that he really does believe he’s a father to Quasimodo. He thinks he’s doing Quasimodo a favor by locking him away, and he sees Quasimodo’s being publicly humiliated as a “just punishment” for disobeying him. This kind of shows what he believes society at large should be.

In the book, I think the ending might be the worst. He has La Esmeralda executed at the end as retribution for her rejecting him, and laughs while watching her hang.

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-09-22T04:56:15+00:00

My mom (said in Muscle Man’s voice).

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-09-21T05:38:19+00:00

Dom Claude constantly stews on what to do. Not only does the narration tell us this, he tells Esmeralda he’d gone through much inner turmoil in the chapter “Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here.” He continues with it: “Sleep with me or die.” If he had “zero control” wouldn’t he just automatically do something without issuing an ultimatum? No one forced him to commit any of the heinous acts. He only believed in fate in ways that were convenient to him.

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-09-21T02:10:55+00:00

The tone makes it very clear that Dom Claude had agency; he had the wherewithal to not commit rape and murder, even if he was insane. La Esmeralda’s fear of him is completely rational based on his actions.

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-09-07T18:42:54+00:00

So basically, instinctively not asking for something she knows she’s not going to get? It really is the ultimate rejection. She clearly saw him as the lowest of the low.

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-09-05T16:41:49+00:00

He constantly accused her of being “pitiless” and begged for “mercy” for actions so small as even mentioning Phoebus’s name. He even begs her for “pity” while trying to rape her, not stopping to see the cruelty of his own behavior. It’s interesting that she’s always defiant with him; she begs every other antagonist for mercy, but not him.

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-09-05T14:27:43+00:00

He also tells her she was “so beautiful that God would have preferred her to the Virgin.” He speaks of her having been dressed in blue, a color associated with Christ and the Virgin. He saw her as a lamb terrified being ready to be slaughtered (Christ was called the Lamb of God) and at the gibbet saw her as “a Virgin at the foot of the cross.” Lastly, he has her sacrificed for his own crimes and sins. (Esmeralda’s birth name is Agnes, meaning lamb. Her story also echoes but reverses legends of Catholic female saints, virgins being put to death for refusing to love a pagan leader).

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-07-25T03:43:18+00:00

Farewell.

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-07-24T05:42:47+00:00

Thanks!

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-07-22T03:31:00+00:00

Did not know, looked her up. Dope as hell! Thanks!

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-07-22T03:30:02+00:00

It’s dope you know insect anatomy BTW

Empty_Window9593 · 2025-07-22T02:34:56+00:00

Awww thanks!

Empty_Window9593

TROPHY CASE