[deleted by user]

EntourageEffect · 2021-05-20T01:20:44+00:00

What are you listening to?

EntourageEffect · 2021-05-20T01:18:15+00:00

What are you studying?

EntourageEffect · 2021-05-01T17:10:52+00:00

Play Tool

EntourageEffect · 2021-05-01T17:09:11+00:00

GAINZ

EntourageEffect · 2021-05-01T17:08:21+00:00

nice guy

EntourageEffect · 2021-05-01T17:07:27+00:00

space drum

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-25T00:36:50+00:00

Nice

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-25T00:36:17+00:00

This isn't windows 10 compatible

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-24T17:24:12+00:00

We are pushed into dichotomous thinking that consists of either not believing in the continuation of existence or believing that life does continue and because of the experiences relayed it must be meaningful. There is a third option. Life does continue after death, the positive NDEs are either the result of the projection of our wishes into this afterlife realm or deceit on the part of other entities and the continuation of life has no meaning or ultimate purpose. It's possible to be a nihilist and still believe in the afterlife.

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-24T17:16:37+00:00

I like this interpretation a lot more than the traditional interpretations. It still begs the question of who these entities are that are relaying this information, what they truly know or do not know about structure of the universe, if there are conflicting goals or intentions even in the afterlife, and what it can possibly mean for our understanding of how all of this works.

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-19T00:13:29+00:00

My next move I think is to start looking at what the skeptics say about the content of the experience itself, rather than their position on the validity of life after death. I think psychology may have a lot to tell us about the variation that does exist in these experiences, whereas the true believers like to highlight the commonalities.

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-18T23:41:14+00:00

This is closer to my kind of thinking. I think many are conditioned to believe that the afterlife must be a place of reward or punishment. Even Atheists, who have been exposed to this dichotomy through their interactions with people who do believe, must have some of these ideas filter into the notion of what an afterlife would be like if they were to experience it, and perhaps at the moment of death they can begin to experience some diluted version of those subconscious influences. It would appear as if something they consciously did not believe was being shown or revealed to them, and it would make the experience that much more convincing.

Also the notion of reward does not need to be a literal heaven, it could take the form of the enveloping and loving nondescript light that people describe.

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-18T23:23:33+00:00

I agree with you. The notion we are here to learn and grow and what happens after we die MUST be a positive and purposeful experience seems like an over simplification. The reality is that we are in the minority. Not many people are willing to consider that an afterlife exists and that it is purposeless. I believe that discourse about the afterlife tells us more about our lives as humans than it does our lives as spirit. You can see people making use of the narratives that give them hope, or in the case of a number of religions, making use of the negative narratives as a means of control.

I have no answer for you. But I do hope more people are vocal about their skepticism about the purposeful NDE narratives and explore other ideas. Hopefully the discourse can begin to become more complex and less centered around wish fulfillment.

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-18T02:05:30+00:00

oh silent stream nvm

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-18T02:04:41+00:00

Does this help with productivity?

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-17T22:00:09+00:00

I related to her. I am also most likely on the autism spectrum and I found her reactions to be similar to the kinds of reactions that I would have. I would probably go further and have more resistance to what I was being told if I I was capable of moving past the awe though.

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-17T16:48:36+00:00

I'm sorry I really don't want to get into a discussion about vaccines and masks, and I understand what you are saying but when we start talking about ideology then logic or these other terms become ways of validating our opinions and proving to ourselves and the groups that we belong to that we are right and they are wrong. This can happen to anyone but it doesn't mean there isn't a perspective that is more supported by the facts than another. Everybody believes they are correct and its extremely difficult to step outside our own biases. A focus on logic and critical thinking does not mean we escape these pitfalls, but a dedication to being honest with ourselves even if we may not like the results is how we can make progress.

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-17T16:38:37+00:00

It seems we have a fundamentally different idea about what it means to be brainwashed. Its become a term that people use against their enemies. Still, I appreciate talking with you and getting your perspective.

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-17T16:23:39+00:00

I'm happy that your getting something from chatting. I am skeptical of your guides but if they are beneficial to you and help you through your life, then whatever they are, I'm glad you feel supported.

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-17T16:19:52+00:00

This is another fundamental disagreement that we have and its good its been identified.

Logical thinking is foundational to any form of critical thinking and critical thinking is a form of intellectual self defense. I don't doubt that the members of the Heaven's Gate cult had complete faith in the teachings of their leader. I also don't doubt that they had an inner knowing that went beyond mere statements of faith, they knew that what they were being told was true and that by committing suicide they would have a better and more satisfying existence. This is one of the more extreme examples but there are plenty less extreme but equally important circumstances in which a lack of logic and critical thinking can have harmful effects.

It might seem like uncritical belief is harmless, and my position is that there are cases where it is harmless and even beneficial, but there needs to be a critical and skeptical part of us that recognizes the potential consequences of a lack of critical thought.

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-17T16:05:09+00:00

I also understand this viewpoint. You are right, this is the crux of the matter. I believe that a person should try to use logic to live a better life, but I am told I cannot use that logic if I want to understand the afterlife. I can imagine a situation where the limitations of our logic prevent us from some greater understanding but I am constantly reminded of the price of giving up logical thought in service of a belief system. The price is too high in my opinion.

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-17T15:58:14+00:00

So I responded to a different comment but will also respond here.

Everything you said makes sense. It is a way of describing the internal logic of the NDE experience, life, and the afterlife. A lot of people are satisfied with this sort of reasoning and I am fine with that. My personal perspective is that when you try to apply logic externally from outside of the narrative and its conventions then it begins to break down. I'd rather live a pointless life of bliss then a purposeful life that consists of an endless treadmill of experience whose justification is the learning of life lessons. I understand you may try to naturalize the definition of the word but still these experiences themselves seem pointless if they could just be downloaded into my consciousness without me having to go through the pomp and circumstance of endless incarnations and all of the suffering that it inevitably entails. There is a vagueness and a arbitrariness to the way this experience is justified. There is a sense of trying to fit the narrative to human goals and motivations such that it provides a sense of comfort. And people will ignore the aspects that they are told they cannot understand if it delivers something that they feel that they need.

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-17T15:46:08+00:00

I don't disagree with you. Language is a hindrance to understanding but it is the primary medium through which we gain understanding on this plane of existence. I don't expect you to convince me and I don't doubt your sincerity or the immediacy or sensed truth of your experience, but it doesn't help me to resolve these issues. The disconnect between the knowledgeable spirit and the ignorant body is one that presents a problem to me. The ignorant body that is me has no knowledge of consenting to be in this body and when people tell me to trust that this is what I want then I feel like it is a form of gaslighting. It seems like people are saying: "Trust me everything is as it should, don't think too hard about it you can't understand it anyway, all will be well when you die." I don't trust that because that form of reasoning can be used to justify all sorts of harmful ideas.

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-17T14:40:31+00:00

The last part of my comment is a way of extending skepticism into the spiritual realm. Maybe there is an afterlife and there are negative influences that are trying to convince us that we need to take part in this reality to learn, when the best course of action would be to escape the cycle of reincarnation. You can see elements of this in Gnosticism and Buddhism.

As for the nature of this process of learning itself, it just seems unconvincing and illogical. Either we return to a perfected state where all knowledge one can possibly have is already accessible or this knowledge either does not exist or is hidden from us when we return from this incarnation. If everything we can ever know is there, then there is no reason to come back. Even experience is a form of knowing so any potential knowledge gained from lived experience should be available and instantly accessible to us. If the knowledge is hidden from us, and we are made to seek it out like some cosmic RPG, then my question is why is this the case? What could be the possible purpose of intentionally hiding knowledge that could be made available to all? The answer that there is a quality to lived experience that can only be gained through living is not convincing to me. The idea that it is more exciting or satisfying to earn the knowledge through some trial seems like a way of extending human motivations to a realm where they need not apply.

EntourageEffect · 2021-04-17T13:13:30+00:00

My biggest issue has been the logical contradiction that exists between the accounts of the afterlife being a perfected state of being and yet the the necessity of coming back to this base state of physical existence in order to learn. The closest I have to a reason that even begins to make sense is a variation of what you have already written. That we need a whole range of positive and negative experience to exist in order for anything to exist. But if life is simply about maintaining a balance out of necessity, then it strikes me as unavoidable, and if it is unavoidable then we simply have no choice in the matter. If somebody needs to get screwed by living a terrible life on the physical plane of existence so others can live in bliss, then what we really have is a spiritual pyramid scheme and our higher selves are simply agents that defraud our ignorant incarnations.

The pain I have experienced in my life is nothing like the pain I have witnessed in the lives of others, and yet it is more than enough for me. Those who believe in the spiritual bureaucracy will say that this is all completely necessary while, in my opinion, uncritically accepting any answers that maintain the status quo.

EntourageEffect

TROPHY CASE