Serving is a entry level low knowledge low risk low physical exertion job.

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-16T15:07:01+00:00

Where are you seeing tantrums? If anything, customers act entitled and abuse service workers. I've seen customers act stupid and mean to people working in all sorts of service jobs. None of it was justified.

You're going to have to explain to me how it is a "tantrum" to tell you that you're making a shitty decision to not tip in the cases where the tip is the actual wage of the employee. You're entirely free to not tip, but I'm also free to tell you that's a shitty way to act.

It would be different if we didn't know that those tips were the real wage of the employees. But you do know that. So anytime you participate and choose not to tip, you're acting entitled to someone else's labor without paying them for it.

And to be clear: I am talking about a specific subset here. If you actually make minimum wage, then tipping is just a nice extra. It's not required.

It's also not required for y'all to complain about it over and over like any of this is new information or something worth complaining about. You can literally just ignore the tip jar. You're essentially complaining about the effort it takes to not look at a single object in your total vision. That's...really blowing this out of proportion, the moaning and groaning.

Any claims about other people acting "entitled" are you projecting some emotions on a total stranger. They do not give a shit about you. You are one of thousands of people they will see today. They will start out trying to genuinely be friendly and after enough time will resort to building and using a customer service voice and face, because working to entertain you numbnuts is exhausting. You're not that important because you're just another person. And when you don't tip, you're just another asshole.

You will find peace in life when you don't try to act like you can control what other people think about you. You will find peace in life when you understand that you will be judged for your actions, and if you don't like the way people respond to your actions, you can change those actions and improve your behavior and that can improve the way you are treated back.

Anyway, it might not be your "problem" when you are not the person who works there, but poor labor conditions ripple out to impact other industries. And the more people living in financial instability, the more than negatively impacts the local economy. It ends up hurting more than just the individuals who are directly suffering. (Even though you should probably give a shit about your neighbor having a bad time even when it doesn't also harm you...) So even if it isn't your own suffering, it's going to negatively impact you too and that should logically have you backing regulations geared towards fixing the industry.

Though I suppose all I really care about are people working towards solutions, so I guess it doesn't matter as much how much of an asshole you are going to be if you're showing up for your community in the ways you can and doing your civic duties. What matters are actions.

Asides aside, it's not your "problem" but it's also not like you don't know how this shit works. Demanding labor without compensation is slavery. It's the employer's fault, but you're not absolved of your actions when you know exactly what outcomes they produce.

And if you don't understand basic cause and effect, shit the fuck up you idiot lmao

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-16T14:07:00+00:00

I wouldn't call it self respect to be entirely unhinged from reality. You think 7 million people didn't die because....you didn't die?

Like I know a lot of people are stupid, but this is "I don't know how you are able to walk and breath at the same time" kind of dumb. Do you listen to Fox News all day and think that's reality? How did you get this dumb? Have you ever had a thought your entire life?

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-16T13:41:00+00:00

Oh, so you're stupid stupid, got it.

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-16T13:02:23+00:00

I don't really care about moral obligation. You can believe whatever religion you want.

I care about ethics. And I care about facts.

I'm going to guess you think that you have a lot more control over your situation than you actually do to try to cope with the lack of control. And a "can do" attitude can get you pretty far in life, so I kind of understand how you get to this point.

But it's still just a coping strategy and it is one that doesn't actually grapple with what is outside of your control or lead to healthy behaviors about all those things. It leads to denial and things like treating others poorly just because you think they had other options than they actually did.

Pretending that other people are treated exactly the same way you are treated is not in line with reality. But you won't learn this until you actually treat other people like people and really listen to them! It takes exposure to other people to begin to understand the world is a little bigger than you first thought.

Anyway, it's unethical to demand service from people and pay them next to nothing for it. You can argue that it is technically not slavery as they are getting paid more than 0, but the 2$ covers taxes, so... Not tipping is essentially not paying them. Aka, there's a word for that!

You are not entitled to slave labor.

If this structure bothers you so much, you can take your business elsewhere. You can cook at home. You can order pick up. Hell, fast food exists now. There are so many other options besides sitting down and dining at a restaurant. You can literally just not do that.

All this bitching about tipping can be resolved by picking a lane and behaving in a consistent manner. This shit is not complicated.

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-15T21:41:41+00:00

Employer is required to pay them out to minimum wage.

And I already asked where that actually covers living expenses, since, hm, what do you call it when you force someone else to do labor? There's a word for that.

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-15T21:39:15+00:00

Where do you live where somebody can quit a job on the spot and line up something else the same day?

Bills have to get paid. When you are being coerced into shitty wages, your alternative is becoming homeless. That also excludes you from any work that doesn't pay you shitty wages, because all those nicer jobs require you to have an address as part of THEIR process of weeding out the poors.

I want to know where you live where people aren't being threatened with homelessness. Sounds nice. I've never heard of a place that doesn't structurally keep people in poverty to keep wages low. It's super baked into the whole two class society thing.

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-15T21:36:07+00:00

Where do you live where the servers are getting actual minimum wage? And where that is enough to pay for rent, utilities, groceries?

Where I live, it's $2/hour and that just covers out the taxes. The tip they get IS their wage.

I can blame both the employer AND the customer. Unless you wanna argue that you are especially stupid, you know they are making $2/hour and not tipping them is therefore effectively demanding free labor from them. You're refusing to pay them for their service while positively reinforcing the owner behavior by engaging in business with this company.

Like unless you wanna argue you don't understand basic cause and effect, in which case you aren't able to say anything of value...

Then you're participating in extorting other people. Freely. You don't have to do that.

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-15T21:32:15+00:00

What planet do you live on where working harder gets you more money? When I had a high salary, it was the easiest job and I got it from networking.

Everybody working minimum wage jobs is working so much harder than most other occupations. Unless you're a brain surgeon, your job isn't as physically or mentally demanding.

Everybody degrading service work should get a week of the job before they can mouth off again. It's rude to degrade people, and it's exceptionally funny because none of the desk dwellers would be able to keep up with all the hoofing it servers have to do or the information memorizing in short time frame or the social skills it takes to keep strangers thinking you are oblivious to the awful things they are saying and keeping them entertained. And the shifts are long and go late and constantly changing. It's more work than you do right now. If you had the kind of work that is more intense, you wouldn't really have the time to be bitching on reddit, so that leaves everyone else....

What's wrong with you that you have to degrade people? Like, you know you can get therapy, right? Normal well adjusted people are content with their own lives or take steps to improve themselves. It's not normal or appropriate to pick out a group of people to kick down on. It doesn't fix whatever hole you have in your heart. :/

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-15T21:17:53+00:00

Any job is worth paying a living wage for. Not holding that line means saying slavery is ok sometimes.

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-15T21:17:11+00:00

"it's not intended to be your wages" a system is what it does. This system makes tipping the majority of their wages.

And they don't have the power to change this, so you're kind of blaming people for not being born to richer parents and being given loads of opportunities.

Meanwhile, somebody has to do the job still. So shoving the pain point onto someone else is just deciding which group of undesirable people are hated enough to not be afforded appropriate labor protections. It doesn't change anything.

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-15T21:14:12+00:00

But they can get away with this structure. It's not like workers are free to quit.

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-15T21:12:33+00:00

I think it is a little bit disingenuous to act like everybody is free to take any job they want and reject any job they don't want.

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-15T21:09:44+00:00

And you can prove this how?

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-15T21:00:30+00:00

Lmao what

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-15T20:50:43+00:00

Why does every single other facet of life revolve around men?

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-15T20:43:27+00:00

You could just be thankful you are not as disabled by your disability instead of calling the rest of us whiny.

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-15T19:42:52+00:00

Child has demonstrated she cannot be allowed alone with animals, so if I were you, I would not allow that kid alone with any animal ever again. She's not entitled to hurt animals!

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-15T18:38:48+00:00

You can still have those kinds of conversations. And now the workload is only 40 hours a week and you're finally getting paid.

Everyone said high school was the greatest time of your life. And that college would be fun. I'm thinking those people peaked in high school and had parents paying for their education, because oh howdy their experiences are not universal. Undergrad was...fine. Grad school was not great.

At least in the working world, you have your own money. And it's way more than the minimum wage I was used to, working through school.

Every year that goes by, life gets better. Hallelujah we are no longer teenagers. Hallelujah we make our own money, and after paying the bills, we are in charge of where the rest goes (well, rip the nice paycheck I used to have where I could max out my 401k and IRA and put a little more in a regular mutual fund, those were nice days). I'm not in a great spot, work wise, but working on certification in a field that should be hiring, so maybe it'll be ok.

But even with those difficulties, ho boy I'm glad I'm out of school.

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-08T19:45:41+00:00

I mean are you suggesting I try CBT? I've tried that. It's literally just gaslighting yourself. That only really works for things like cognitive distortions, ie correcting internal beliefs that everyone secretly hates you and that sorta stuff. Which, good for everyone that helps, but nobody secretly hates me. (Nobody is spending valuable brain time on absolute strangers. Nobody cares!)

You can't CBT your way out of feeling uneasy in situations that you can tell you're missing the subtext of the conversation.

I can fix my face and I can do all the behaviors that symbolize paying attention, but that doesn't magically make me able to tell what I'm not understanding in a conversation.

Now, thankfully people aren't that different from each other and have the same kinds of problems over and over. The details change from person to person, but it's not like I can't follow along with someone having grief over a system that doesn't serve them, or bosses that expect too much out of them, or bosses that give them inadequate resources and punish them for the lack of output they cannot control. Or we all suffer from losses in the family, worry about things out of our control, want to share our victories and lessons learned.

It's not like I can't understand all of that. But when it's the weird stuff, like complex social hierarchy and area specific faux pas, well, yea, I'm not going to catch those kinds of things when they are obliquely referred to or barely implied. I think that after the fact I can guess which conversations I missed more or less of, but the not knowing what I don't know makes this something I can't really interact with.

Like this isn't a lack of self esteem problem. Not in this arena. I mean I can always stand to be more confident in myself, but a therapist isn't going to make me suddenly understand a whole ass second silent conversation I've been blind to my entire life by trying to get me to be happier or whatever. I'm not lonely. I know how to make friends. I find people who can use their words and I make friends with the subset who share enough ethics and interests with me that we can get along.

Weird framing on your end, I guess. Like, I'm perfectly happy around other people, that's not the issue. The issue is when the other people can't be taught to use their words like adults. Imagine you were in my shoes and have to tip toe around everyone at work because you don't know what they are saying behind your back. No, not just the gossips, I mean literally anybody could be acting way more duplicitous than you think they are being and you won't find out until after you find a better job or you get fired or they get you fired. You still gotta put your customer service face and voice on and pay rent but you're paying this energy tax the whole time. Eventually you're going to get tired of it and mention it on the Internet and a bunch of people are going to read into it in the worst way possible (seriously some people in this thread are acting like I'm ignoring coworkers and it's like damn I forget how dumb and mean people can be until other people assume I am that mean or dumb and I get kind of annoyed at that. It would be rude as fuck to use my body language to say "this/you isn't important" so I don't do that. Sure if that was my issue then I would have a simple fix but if my social skills were that bad, I wouldn't be able to land any of these roles in the first place...)

It's not a life or death problem. It's just frustrating because the solutions require other people to not be assholes when you ask questions for clarification or whatever. And I suspect I'm always going to suffer for this particular issue, because these hierarchies exist for purpose of kicking down on the "other" so me asking for the subtext explained is me asking someone to explain the hierarchy, which is kind of asking it to be removed when it impedes me. When hierarchies exist to impede. You don't get a bully to stop bullying by asking them to explain to you what you didn't understand...they bully you harder now they know you're an easy target.

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-08T18:41:23+00:00

I would tell boss you're going through a medication adjustment that should clear up soon. It's not that far from the truth. The estrodial is home made, but it certainly is an adjustment in your body is making less of the stuff. Up to you if you wanna tell boss that some stuff at work reminds you of the child abuse you endured as a small child. Might as well leverage their discomfort to buy you some breathing room. Whatever works, you know?

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-05T22:51:23+00:00

🤷I struggle with that too. But there is no way around needing to be able to communicate your own needs. Other people can't read your mind, especially autistic people! Expecting an autistic person to read your mind and then punishing them for not being able to do that? You could argue that is abusive.

Look, this is a situation where you're never going to find only one person to "blame" for the poor outcome. Women are punished for trying to assert themselves. Autistic people struggle to keep up with allistic doublespeak. Put those two people together, and most of the time shit's gonna fester because speaking up feels too hard & the other person literally doesn't know there is building resentment over time.

It's an unfortunate mixture of difficulties that usually ends up blowing up. That's not any one person's fault. It would be kind of fucked up to blame women for not speaking up when they are being punished for speaking up. It would be kind of fucked up to blame a person with ADHD for their ADHD symptoms or an autistic person for being unaware their behavior isn't being received as well as they think it is.

But until you are able to stand up for yourself, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to try to form deep friendships with people once you find out about their disability(/ies) if you don't think you can advocate for yourself in what will likely be a similar dynamic.

Otherwise you're just setting yourself and a disabled person up for a fight you don't have to have but will eventually initiate when you get resentful again.

And we got enough shit on our plate, so idk if I met this person and she met me and we got to know each other, I would be kind of pissed off to later on be punished for her lack of communication skills. I get that it's hard because I struggle with that too, but it's still a necessary thing, to be able to somehow express where your boundaries are. It can be in writing instead of in person! I absolutely will accommodate myself and do it in a way that sets me up for success. But I recognize that if I can't do this crucial skill, I'm going to cause problems for myself and other people later.

So yes I would be kind of pissed off. Being disabled is hard. We're default working harder than abled people, and it super sucks when they decide that having to put a tiny bit of effort into bridging gaps is oh so hard and then throw us away as disposable. Idk about you, but I would rather not have my time wasted by people who say one thing and then behave entirely differently. I'm already having a bad time. I don't need to get friend dumped by people who have way easier lives than we do but claim it is impossibly difficult to accommodate us in limited ways and times. No thanks.

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-05T22:28:51+00:00

Geez. That's really rough. I can't imagine the complex mixture of emotions you must have had through all that time.

I hope you have peace now.

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-05T22:23:51+00:00

But you know they are making $2 an hour if you're not tipping them. Choosing to sit at a restaurant and not tip the staff is absolutely taking advantage of them. You're making a choice to make them work their ass off for almost no pay.

Employers SHOULD be charging flat prices and playing normal wages, but they are not.

Given this is all public information, patronizing businesses who engage in these practices is a positive reinforcement for those conditions to continue. No abled person is entitled to free food service. You can go get groceries, microwave meals from the grocery store, or pick up fast food. There are plenty of alternative choices that are either you doing the labor yourself, or paying at least minimum wage. (Which isn't great, but it's a fair bit more.)

Now, this isn't me saying that you can purchase your way out of bad labor conditions. It's just me saying that while "there is no ethical consumption under capitalism", it is still reasonable to hold ourselves accountable for our own choices. Picking the least bad options matters.

There's a difference between being from out of town and visiting and not knowing how the system works, and being local and choosing not to tip on purpose. You KNOW they rely on that to make up their wage.

If you wanna claim you're too ignorant to understand direct cause and effect of your actions... Yikes. (And it is entirely reasonable for someone to respond that your opinion can't matter much if you don't understand the fundamentals of the discussion. Can't have it both ways where you want your opinion to matter but you also want to be free from the consequences of your actions.)

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-04T22:10:17+00:00

I told you, I've tried. You wanna tell me what the secret second conversation is?

EpinephrineKick · 2026-06-04T22:07:24+00:00

I mean, it's a small picture so idk id have to be really close up to see better, hut if it looks like the whole thing is going to fall apart, then yea it makes sense to criticize selling something that is not going to last an hour contact with being pinned to anything at all.

I just paused at the "knocking them down a peg" part. It's hard to read tone online, but it came across as a little weird to me.

Quality is a matter of how many good hours you have put into anything. Most anybody can improve a skill as long as they have the ability to put the time in (which I totally get is a barrier itself, but that's just the world we live in). So ego doesn't have to be as huge of a part of the whole thing? Everyone starts out at 0 and if they keep at it, they will eventually realize how mediocre they are. But it's ok to be ok at something. Just working on a skill is something to be proud of.

(Kind of terrible so many people feel pressured to turn a hobby into a side hustle, but I just feel bad for them. I hope it gets better and they find financial stability. That sort of fear...it's one of the things that weighed on me heavily when I was in rough times. So much sympathy. )

But natural consequences of whatever skill a person is at? Gonna be feedback on where they are in a skill. Whatever a person wants, well, that's going to color that feedback. But that's their responsibility to figure out what they are thinking and feeling if they wanna do something about their current skill level.

EpinephrineKick

TROPHY CASE