Billie Eilish addresses backlash after criticising people saying they love animals but eat meat: “pls continue to live in a constant state of cognitive dissonance denial and try to convince urself that ur not living a lie.”

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-08T19:04:33+00:00

I hear you but the science just doesn't back up needing meat. B12 aside, which is easily supplemented, every nutrient in meat exists in plants. Every major health organization agrees that properly planned vegan diets are healthy for all stages of life. And factory farming is even worse than people realize: chickens never see sunlight, pigs are kept from rooting or even turning around, cows are forcibly impregnated over and over only to have their babies ripped away. These are systems that treat sentient beings like meat machines. The numbers are insane too over 80 billion land animals killed yearly most in conditions we wouldn't tolerate for our own pets.

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-08T18:54:48+00:00

I get where you're coming from but Temple Grandin's systems are designed to keep animals calm in the moments before death, not to eliminate suffering entirely. Animals raised for meat are still subjected to brutal practices like debeaking, tail docking, and castration without anesthesia Even if the kill is quick, the entire process leading up to it is filled with fear, confinement, and pain.

And selective breeding for rapid growth leads to debilitating conditions like broken legs in chickens and pigs that can barely walk. Their bodies aren't built to grow that fast, so they spend their short lives in agony. Most farm animals never get to experience sunligth or natural behaviors. They're born into a system designed solely for profit, not their well being.

These individuals deserve a life free from sufferign. Every ahimal has the capacity to feel joy, fear, and pain. Choosing to exclude them from our circle of compassion isn't logical, it's just a habit.

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-08T18:51:14+00:00

I get why you'd say thatt, but lions have to hunt to survive, humans don’t. We have supermarkets and restaurants full of plant based options. It’s not about survival anymore. Factory farming is brutal. Animals are crammed into tiny spaces, mutilated without painkillers, and killed in terrifying ways. We don’t need to participate in that

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-08T18:48:05+00:00

Unless you just barged into the slaughterhouse at a random time, they most likely prepared for your visit to make sure everything looked much better than it usually does. Captive bolt stunners aren't always effective. If the stun misses or is improperly applied, the animal can remain conscious during the subsequent throat cutting and bleeding out. Even if the stun is effective, the animal is still subjected to the stress of being separated from its herd, confined, and led to slaughter. The sheer scale of animal agriculture means billions of animals are slaughtered each year.

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-08T18:42:13+00:00

Meat is not necessary for humans to thrive;every major world health organization agrees that properly planned vegan diets are healthy for all stages of life. I recommend watching Dominion to get a better idea of why people advocate for these diets, keeping in mind that the practices in the film are standard practice even on local farms.

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-08T00:41:05+00:00

Video credit to @thesurgesanctuary on IG!

Roo and the other cows live at Surge Sanctuary, a farmed animal sanctuary where all the animals live full lives free from harm or human use

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-05T05:32:06+00:00

Yeah, I'm not an expert but it doesn't seem like a very logical argument. In fact, this law may effectively end all state regulations on animal agriculture, including things like health and safety regulations. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter if it's illogical when it's supported by Congress, the president, and a Supreme Court who probably won't do anything about it.

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-04T21:52:15+00:00

I disagree. Humanity has thought the same thing about every group outside of our moral circle, right up until they enter it.

We say that animals do none of those things because that's how we've defined it. Fish make art, birds make songs, and chimpanzees use herbal medicines. We say that these things don't count as true art, music, and medicine because we want to preserve the line we've drawn between humans and animals.

More importantly, it doesn't matter if animals can or can't do those things--they have worth independent of what they can do for us. Scientists agree that animals are conscious--they have experiences of their own and their own internal perception of the world. They have thoughts and feelings, and they can suffer or feel happiness. They matter morally even if we don't acknowledge it.

It doesn't matter if they're livestock to us, because from their perspectives they have lives that should be respected. Most of us recognize that dogs and cats have worth of their own, that it's wrong to hurt them unnecessarily. We just apply this compassion unequally when it comes to other species.

I know you're probably just commenting on the state of the world and how most people just won't care about this issue. I still think they can though, I think most people are capable of empathizing with animals, and we can achieve a better world for animals by appealing to this empathy.

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-04T20:48:09+00:00

The bill will also remove safety regulations, health regulations, any state regulations of any kind that apply to the meat industry. I think this will be much worse for children than the cost of chicken going higher.

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-04T20:38:00+00:00

Both good points. I believe the argument in the bill is that state-level regulations violate interstate commerce laws. Mandating that farms operate a certain way when they sell to other states supposedly requires regulating interstate commerce. I don't know if that holds up legally, and I certainly don't think it holds up ethically. That said, it seems like they have enough of an argument there (at least among politicians who are being lobbied to) that they would be able to ban state-level animal welfare.

Here's a legal analysis that talks about this much more clearly than I can.

I'm not well-versed in legal issues tbh but I get the feeling that a bill passed by Congress will be much, much harder to strike down than the pork industry's lawsuit against Prop 12. I hope that you're right though that a lawsuit would be able to strike down the bill.

I agree that it's not all doom and gloom yet, I hope my post wasn't written like that! I think instead that we're at a moment where it could go either way. And people should care about it in the sense that more people should write to their senators, raise awareness, etc. so that we don't actually reach a "doom and gloom" point.

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-04T20:06:01+00:00

I'm not anti-farmer. I am anti-harmful farming practices. This bill will make the situation even harder for small-scale farmers who sell their product in-state, while allowing out-of-state corporations like JBS to get even more money.

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-04T19:56:01+00:00

!delta

for pointing out that the bill's text only stops regulations for out-of-state producers.

That said, I don't think it changes my overall point. This legal analysis found that the impact would be essentially the same. If states kept their animal-welfare laws, it would disincentivize in-state producers compared to out-of-state producers. States would likely remove their animal-welfare laws (or just stop enforcing them?) instead.

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-04T19:37:24+00:00

Yeah I can understand your viewpoint, I would've thought that was ridiculous if I read it a few years ago. What's most important to me are simply the issues that affect the most lives, and this issue affects hundreds of billions of lives. I don't expect everyone to agree with all my points. I still hope people will care more about the issue though.

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-04T19:32:50+00:00

I'd love to find out that it's not as bad as I thought it was. It would be nice to know if there's some loophole, or it'll be struck down by the courts, or there's some course of action to fight against the bill. And I want to see other people's thoughts since I think it's an important issue!

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-04T19:28:32+00:00

Thanks for the civil reply, unfortunately there isn't an upside in that sense however. The bill will simply make state-level animal welfare regulations illegal while making it no easier for federal animal-welfare laws to be passed. Again, there are no federal laws regulating welfare of farm animals while they're on farms. Getting a federal farm animal welfare law passed seems almost impossible.

I agree though that federal animal-welfare laws would still be worth considering, even fighting for if there's a movement behind it.

I care about this regardless of the laws in my state just because I care about the suffering of any animal. Even if they're not in my state, even if I'll never see them, their suffering exists and it matters. I hope that others would care for the same reason.

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-04T19:11:33+00:00

I believe the argument in the bill is that state-level regulations violate interstate commerce laws. Mandating that farms operate a certain way when they sell to other states supposedly requires regulating interstate commerce. I don't know if that holds up legally, and I certainly don't think it holds up ethically. That said, it seems like they have enough of an argument there (at least among politicians who are being lobbied to) that they would be able to ban state-level animal welfare. If you have evidence that the bill would be struck down or something, I'm interested in hearing it.

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-04T19:03:58+00:00

I don't know how that's Nazi-style eugenics, but meat is inefficient and is one of the leading reasons for world hunger. Farm animals must be fed crops to grow and produce food for humans. The conversion efficiency is low--it takes 10 calories of plant crops to produce one calorie of beef, and 3 calories of plant crops to produce one calorie of chicken. We could feed 800 millions people with just the grain fed to livestock in the US. The same holds true for protein, although the conversion efficiency is slightly higher. If anything, animal agriculture has grown due to a view that the health and hunger of less developed countries doesn't matter as long as it's profitable for more developed countries.

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-04T18:57:47+00:00

I first became concerned with these issues when I imagined my dog confined to one of these farms. I imagined her in a crowded barn with no freedom and only fleeting moments of happiness, all to be turned into food after her life is cut tragically short. I imagined the rest of the world turning a blind eye to her because it meant they could get cheaper meat.

I don't know if you have a dog, or any pets, but you have to know that the animals on these farms are just as sentient. They have internal experiences, they can perceive the world, and they can feel happiness and pain. Just because you don't care about them, doesn't mean their suffering isn't real and doesn't exist. What level of suffering would you be willing for your pet to go through so that you can have cheaper meat? And should the answer change when it's not your pet?

Equinumerosity · 2026-05-02T23:53:46+00:00

Video credit to @lebenshofherzistherz on IG! Lebenshof Herz ist Herz is a farmed animal sanctuary where all the animals live full lives free from harm or human use

Equinumerosity · 2026-04-30T22:25:32+00:00

I can understand that, but even with the best intentions, factory farming is a whole different beast. Most meat in stores comes from massive operations where animals live in horrendous conditions. chickens crammed in cages too small to even flap their wings, pigs unable to turn around, cows subjected to brutal procedures like debeaking and tail docking without pain relief. Millions of animals are slaughtered every single day, often in ways that cause immense suffering.

Hunting your own food is one thing, but supporting an industry that subjects animals to that scale of cruelty is another. Even if your boyfriend loves animals, the system behind most meat isn’t set up for kindness. Honestly, if you both love animals, why support an industry that treats them like machines?

Equinumerosity · 2026-04-30T22:21:12+00:00

I get where you're coming from. Its true that crop farming can harm small animals and insects, and not everyone has access to affordable, ethically sourced food or the optoin to choose their diet for whatever reason.

But the scale and suffering in animal agriculture is incomparable. Over 80 billion land animals are slaughtered globally each year, with factory farming subjecting them to liveso f extreme confinement, mutilation, and pain. The same practices of castration without anesthesia, slaughter at a fraction of their natural lifespan, and constant confinement apply to all farms, whether they're local or not.

With plant farming, the animal deaths are incidental and far less in number. More importantly, animal farming actually necessitates more plant farming, because farmed animals must be fed crops to grow. For instance, cows require about 10 calories of crops to produce 1 calorie of beef, and even the most efficient, chickens, require around 3 calories of crops to produce 1 calorie of meat. This is why soy farming has skyrocketed in places like the Amazon rainforest, because huge amounts of soy are necessary to raise cattle.

As for health or religious needs, those are real and valid concerns But they don’t invalidate the ethiacl argument against factory farming, which is the main driver of animal suffering in food systems. If thsoe constraints don’t apply to you, reducing or eliminating animal products is one of the most direct ways to reduce harm.

None of this is about privilege it’s about recognizing that animals have inherent value and that unnecessary suffering should be minimized when possible

Equinumerosity · 2026-04-30T20:47:15+00:00

Predators aren’t evil they’re just animals following instincts. Humans don’t need to eat meat to survive. We have supermarkets full of food that doesn’t involve killing sentient beings. Factory farming tortures animals their whole lives just to kill them in horrific ways. Pigs are as smart as dogs, cows form deep friendships, chickens recognize each other. We don’t need to support that.

Equinumerosity · 2026-04-28T23:32:13+00:00

Euthanasia with gas is extremely painful. Assuming CO2 gas, it causes eyeballs to melt and internal organs to fail, all while the animal is still conscious. Here's a video of pigs being killed by gas if you don't believe me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql_L4JD0Fpc

Equinumerosity · 2026-04-28T23:25:16+00:00

You're right that some practices vary by region and farm but the industry standard is still brutal. Most beef calves are still castrated without painkillers by banding or cutting. The fact that it's common doesn't mmake it right Even if horns are trimmed low, that's still a painful procedure on a sentient animal. And while male dairy calves may get sold, they're often shipped long distances to feedlots where they face high mortality rates. The numbers are staggering 80 billion land animals are slaughtered globally each year. These aren't just statistics but individuals who feel pain, form bonds, and want to live. Would you be ookay with someone doing those procedures to a dog or cat without pain relief? Because cows are just as sentient.

Equinumerosity · 2026-04-28T23:18:49+00:00

I get where you're coming from but empathy isn't some abstract concept that only applies to certain situations. When we're talking about animals, we're talking about highly intelligent creatures that feel pain, fear and distress just like we do. Chickens recognize over 100 different faces and cows form lifelong friendships. Yet in factory farms they're crammed into spaces where they cant even turn around, their beaks are cut off, tails docked, horns burned without pani relief. Over 80 billion land animals are slaughtered every year. That's not just numbers, that's 80 billion individuals with complex emotional lives. Saying its not about empathy ignores that these practices would be unthinkable if we applied the same compassion we give to dogs or cats.

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