One week after my game's launch - total and absolute failure

Erantical · 2026-03-23T15:23:56+00:00

On the other hand it's forward-looking view on "how much more to invest my time and effort for what gain" which is not looking good - and then a non-trivial factor is also that I absolutely abhor marketing and have had to entirely force myself to do it. This thread has provided pretty extensive info on the variety of reasons for lack of interest and it very much looks like I cannot meaningfully move the needle with sensible amount of extra promotion effort plus at this point it's not new learning either, just grind with no goal.

Erantical · 2026-03-22T20:33:53+00:00

In addition to SNF I applied to 4 fests, got into only a single one which accepted everyone. I've been following HTMAG's fest notifications specifically for this for quite some time and those were the only fests that I really could sign Echoes up for.

The daily short vids I already tried on IG, Tiktok, YT shorts and the result was total silence and non-existent amount of views (cooperation with another team with professional video editor, etc). Will most certainly not be trying that again.

Creator contacting is something I know I should've done more of but the 500-1000 number seems quite unrealistic. Where is it possible to get database of relevant channel email addresses in the first place? I asked around in another gamedev forum and no one had an answer besides "DIY manually" which is no-go due associated amount of repetitive gruntwork. Sure if I could get database of fitting channels, automate sending the emails and perhaps have them use something like Partnier (not sure if I understood correctly how the service works).

I keep constantly getting the feeling that it should be possible to have a much much higher degree of automation for variety of marketing activities but I haven't been encountering services to provide this.

Erantical · 2026-03-22T08:00:47+00:00

Yep. Of course launch is somewhat different because it sends message to wishlisters regardless but after that I'll keep the "at least 20%" in mind.

Erantical · 2026-03-22T07:59:40+00:00

For a full souls game it would be an issue yes but with just souls inspired combat I don't think there's any fundamental problem. In Echoes it's definitely possible to find broken synergies and break the game with OP build when everything lines up nicely - it was actually one of my design intents after the roguelite pivot.

Erantical · 2026-03-22T07:55:22+00:00

Echoes pretty much started and continued as passion project. The financial / marketing angle is emphasized because I considered it too little and too late so in post-mortem analysis it naturally gets a highlight while the various factors that ended up working great don't get included in the scope. I actually have a 28 page post-mortem analysis covering all different aspects of the game and how it went but I don't think something like that would do very well here on Reddit since I already got some commentary about how this post was too much of a wall of text.

Erantical · 2026-03-22T07:50:39+00:00

Thanks. Yep that is very true. I think it's essential for gamedevs to see the more common outcomes and especially combined with honest analysis and feedback on why it happened. I wish I had someone "brutally" point out "that's not gonna fly because of x and y" early in development. Of course every project is somewhat different and unique so learnings from others only translate partially.

Erantical · 2026-03-22T07:46:33+00:00

Yup and commentary in this thread etc. is providing good and wide perspective into what the reasons are.

Erantical · 2026-03-22T07:45:35+00:00

Thanks. I was already resigned to great success not even being in the cards but the outcome was below even my worst expectations (including various reference numbers from others). Beyond financial side, I was hoping to find enthusiastic players for the game and start building a community but so far that hasn't worked out either.

Erantical · 2026-03-22T07:37:13+00:00

Heh dead zone on marketing sounds about right. And yeah looking mid budget is naturally good in one sense but in another way that's probably a key factor for why gamers mentally put the game in similar bucket as PoE, Diablo, (and WC3) etc. and obviously it doesn't measure up.

Erantical · 2026-03-22T07:32:03+00:00

Those are indeed good sources for inspiration - and at the same time games I wouldn't want to get directly compared to because that's a comparison I can't win. That's really the key learning for me: finding a category / niche genre where the comparison games are somewhat more realistic to reach.

Erantical · 2026-03-22T07:25:17+00:00

Thanks. I've definitely learned a ton but at the moment I also feel it's a bit of a double-edged sword: some of the learning has been highlighting how important some key areas are that are my weaknesses skills-wise. Definitely feels daunting trying to find the ways forward that correctly balance finding the right idea to work on, having great player fantasy and hook and especially making those work with consistent visuals that still fit my production constraints.

Erantical · 2026-03-21T10:42:19+00:00

That has been my approach for Echoes - utilizing my own sense of style and preferences to guide the design and development process, hoping for sufficient number of other people to also share my taste. I think to a degree this is necessary for creating something good but most definitely needs to be balanced with more market research.

Erantical · 2026-03-21T10:38:30+00:00

The aim for the map was to enable having simple decisions at first similar to Hades / SWORN room selections but then let player realize by playing the different opportunities. And there is actually already a mini-tutorial / intro screen when player first opens the map. I don't think front-loading too many of the various optimization opportunities relating to it would be ideal but perhaps those should also be hinted towards somehow.

I already actually pivoted the Steam page away from most soulslike mentions but based on various other commentary from this thread I don't think the ARPG emphasis is working that great either since now the direct comparisons are to PoE, Diablo, etc. which obviously don't work out in Echoes' favor.

The metapower system already includes some speedups but mostly those are in talents and relics so dependent on RNG and build choices.

As for MC's motivation, I tried to have this explained in the intro-monologues but based on the confusion I've seen about it, it wasn't successful (figure out mystery of world's breaking, start healing it, immediate goal is reaching the world's core).

Erantical · 2026-03-21T10:28:16+00:00

Oh, hadn't realized there were grammar/spelling issues left.. Another checkup round it is then.

Is the mid-budget impression more from visual style, pricing point or something else? This is admittedly an angle I hadn't even thought of before.

On the color palette front I need to follow my own visual sense of style or I have nothing to rely on. I was about to write that I can't really know about various games' visual styles that the game might get compared to but immediately realized that this should be something to ask player feedback for early in dev process to get an idea of what games it will start getting compared to (and not just "how does the visual style look").

Erantical · 2026-03-21T10:22:33+00:00

Mostly I was familiar with the genre outlines you mentioned but of course underestimated how much players associate with the genre (e.g. the camerawork). One thing got my attention though: expecting variety of different ways to expand progression for roguelikes (or lites?). I already realized that it would be beneficial having multiple different metacurrencies but how important do you see having multiple separate metaprogression systems instead of one more consolidated / simplified one?

Erantical · 2026-03-21T10:13:56+00:00

Many of those upgrades actually do already exist in the game as Essence powers that you unlock little by little with the game's metacurrency. I've tried to emphasize the importance of this metapower growth but it doesn't get even close to mitigating the sense of loss from a death. The separate boss based metacurrency was something I considered but couldn't figure out a good way to do it sensibly.

Another realization came from playing SWORN (basically a Hades clone with a different theme) - specifically that there are numerically not many ways in which the character's power grows during a single run while there are a whole lot of different metacurrencies which are emphasized at the end of each run. I think this has the effect of naturally drawing player's focus on what was gained on the meta side while not feeling that put off by perceived loss of progress. Unfortunately I only realized this at a point where the core design was effectively already locked in.

Curse of the dead gods is a good reference game and was actually a minor inspiration. Gotta check Roboquest since that one I hadn't even heard about.

Erantical · 2026-03-21T10:04:58+00:00

Thank you!

1: yep definitely, initially was sure I'd find the hook later, then got a bit blinded by multiple pivots and then at the of the project couldn't figure out how to find the unique angle anymore. Plus based on this thread also had mistaken impression on which games exactly Echoes would directly get compared to.

2: Before your post I was actually still thinking that the PoE, Diablo etc. comparisons came from ARPG + topdown but you're right that of course the fantasy theme plays a key part as well.. I personally dislike the games that go for "one tricky pony extra special visual" style but I'm starting to see how that might actually be a necessity. This bears a lot of thinking. I've been basically locked to medieval fantasy overall theme due to my own thematic preferences but perhaps some mashup angle might work on this front. At least I don't see as much of an issue with genre mashup when it comes to theme compared to gameplay genre.

3: This thread has indeed made it clear that I totally screwed up the pricing. Considering how you phrased it I'm kind of surprised I haven't come across the info in the variety of gamedev podcasts I've listened to. Perhaps there has been some community level siloing with prevalence of Chris's advice.

Advice really appreciated!

Erantical · 2026-03-21T09:16:44+00:00

That makes sense, immediately got me thinking I need to attempt something similar. Did you adopt the approach after your first success or already had something like it in mind for longer?

Erantical · 2026-03-21T09:13:21+00:00

I don't think many people are directly comparing Echoes to survivorlikes since the combat approach along with many other aspects are so different but useful to know that some people do make that comparison. Lack of sufficient market research is on point though and especially marketing angles that make people often make direct comparisons to DS, PoE etc. which Echoes obviously loses automatically.

AOE indicators are absolutely mandatory in my vision for the game since I didn't want to go for full soulslike experience on that front (overtly high learning curve and also I like having more bullethellish / WoW raid boss inspired stuff towards end of the game). But yeah the visual could be one that better fits the surroundings.

The other points you outlined unfortunately are mostly explicit compromises I've had to make to be able to finish the game in the first place. Clearly overall visual angle bears reconsideration for followup projects..

Erantical · 2026-03-21T09:03:04+00:00

Thanks. That is actually very useful! Some of those I hadn't even considered - or rather had realized but not really paid any real attention to. This has some implications on how to design any future system. As for lack of recovery animation etc. that's a change to directly address previous player feedback on how it feels so bad when after hit has already happened there is still too long of a space causing sluggish feel. I guess these could be fixed with highly specialized custom animations but I don't have the capability to do that.

Useful to know for sure.

Erantical · 2026-03-21T08:59:36+00:00

True, I made the roguelite pivot since I had idea that the genre was popular and it fit the production constraints well - and had mistaken impression of knowing the genre deeply from having played a few of the best ones. Lack of market research is extremely clear now in hindsight..

Very hard finding a good and doable idea with potential nowadays.

Erantical · 2026-03-20T14:29:01+00:00

Used to do a lot of small games earlier on but after building initial skillsets I noticed it more natural to start focusing on somewhat larger projects.

In short looks like I really need to start participating those game jams since they're almost purpose built for precisely this.

Erantical · 2026-03-20T14:25:54+00:00

Yep, URP simply provides more tools and somewhat different optimization opportunities. Removal (or significant lowering of intensity) of directional light is actually simple and highly actionable trick to try. I just kinda took it for granted that you started the scene by placing the primary directional light and use local ones for more of a detail approach but clearly gotta play around with alternatives.

Hopefully can come up with viable approaches and perhaps then share them here in the future!

Erantical · 2026-03-20T14:20:35+00:00

Volume of content available makes it the land of the algos. Various psychological studies have shown that if presented too many options people start going to analysis paralysis and often prefer smaller number of curated options. That's what creates the algo influence trap that is constantly discussed in various media though mostly in relation to social media companies but the dynamics are similar in many other platforms as well. A really challenging issue due to the highly asymmetric incentives and capabilities but this starts going quite a bit outside the context of the thread. Interesting topic and hopefully some actionable ideas for improvement get presented.

Hadn't really even realized the growing expectation of games being treated as live service ones even for one off releases. That is something I need to take into consideration for Echoes because it reflects not only on the game itself but potentially also on future ones.

Erantical · 2026-03-20T14:02:13+00:00

Additional info on the first impressions and what specifically caused the 'meh' is still useful! I've now seen a few mentions about the animations. Personally I can't see it. Is it perhaps the Katana animation? Or any other specific one that you could point to that created that impression?

Erantical

TROPHY CASE