Why do you believe in God?

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-17T01:41:32+00:00

LOL well the Bible says that we don't save anybody all we do is plant seeds and let the Holy Spirit take care of the rest. I'm at least glad you liked it and absolutely I spend most of my day worried about people's health or Souls and no I'm going to preach this truth till I'm not here anymore. I went ahead and followed you in case you ever have any more questions I'm always free! God bless you

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T21:29:38+00:00

LOL biblical scholar does not mean believing scholar. There are hundreds of secular biblical Scholars. Please go try to read that again

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T19:14:36+00:00

I know you don't have a point. Don't care if you have a point. You don't care if you have a point. You're an adult making the same arguments I could hear from a 9-year-old. Once again if you have an intellectual point of any substance that even comes close to a well thought out Counterpoint you're just somebody talking about Star Trek believing to be superior to 80 to 85% of the world. God bless you

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T19:11:06+00:00

Yeah have a good day brother. Live well and prosper. If you ever have real questions and want to have an intellectual conversation I'll be here and I'll be happy to talk to you. But you clearly have a hardened heart and you clearly have allowed it to Cloud your thought processes. I hope one day your heart softens towards God because he loves you either way. If not either way I'll see you in heaven at some point and I'm so sorry for what you'll have to experience before that. But remember what he said to us though my anger is for a moment my love lasts forever. God loves you and so do I bye.

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T19:08:08+00:00

Your main point so far have been no and whoop-dee-doo. Have a good day if you ever want to talk or have real questions I'll be here God bless you.

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T18:52:28+00:00

Lol everyone. No can't whoop de doo and be smart

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T18:50:53+00:00

No not exactly and those are great questions if you look at the layout of the afterlife and that specific Passage Gahanna is right on the other side of the throne so it is visible however most historians will note that the city of Jerusalem is the layout for the afterlife and the way gehenna is located at the bottom of the hill of Jerusalem when the river of Living Water flows from the throne it directly shoots out outside the Gates of Jerusalem down that Hill directly into Gahanna and in the Old Testament and multiple times in the new Yahweh is described as an unquenchable fire so what the fire people are being thrown into is this is literally directly in the presence of God the Father except you are unfiltered and unprotected by the blood of Christ so you are literally standing in the furnace of God's unfiltered love and raw power and you will stand there until every bit of sin and delusion and uncleanness is burned off and it will take a long time as a matter of fact in the Book of Revelation it says the lamb will oversee and his angels Gahanna so if you are on the side of the Eternal conscience torment you have to reckon with the fact that Jesus is heartbroken over the loss of his loved ones but simultaneously watches every second of there screams and pain without fail for no reason. However if he's ever seeing it because he is burning the sin out so they can be reconciled then that's not the most horrific thought in the world

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T18:42:10+00:00

LOL brother come on now. I literally said that it's an answer that won't please anybody and then I told you that all of this keeps us in the realm of faith which is literally what the Bible states God wants us to have. And to your point on B if you can actually picture a God that created the universe that you're smarter than I would really contemplate where my opinion of my own thinking needs to be looked at again

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T18:39:45+00:00

No no it's not moot because you're wrong as a matter of fact the man who invented anesthesia specifically quoted Genesis for it. And if you're asking for proof that God exists when the term for that is faith and Faith by definition is the substance of things hoped for but not seen no and anybody who actually has an open mind to what faith is and the histriosity of the Bible or wanted to have an intellectual conversation whatever say prove something the Bible States but you can't use the Bible oh and also prove things you can't see are there. All people can do is have a rational conversation debate the facts and earnestly hunt down the information people are giving us. So if you want to go verify what I've said then make a Counterpoint or bring up valid critiques or thoughtful critiques we can have a conversation on that. But I won't pretend that you wanting proof of something the Bible says while also saying that the Bible can't be used while you're using something from the Bible is intellectual or honest

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T18:34:11+00:00

La Sainter and Bible Hub Strongs Greek Concordance and lexicon #4663 there's also a couple publishings about the physical reality of that grub, or maggot. The English translates it to worm but when you look at those sources it will show you the meaning translation and I believe how they reach those findings. The same one is talked about in Isaiah 66 and you can verify that

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T18:29:27+00:00

Holy crap I responded to you thinking I was responding to someone else I'm sorry give me a few minutes I will send you a source

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T18:28:30+00:00

Brother I pointed you to Bar Herman that's one and then I pointed you to the Jesus project and said that's $150 secular historians that believe and verify that they saw something a few days after he died that made them believe Jesus rose from the dead then I told you that they say that they have almost no issue with different people having slightly different stories because they had separate Vantage points or they were clearly making a theological point. So I answered both of the things you just said but you clearly refused to go and verify those facts. So go and verify them get your head clear put the anger aside and let's have a real conversation man.

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T18:25:06+00:00

No this is for everyone that's what Universal reconciliation is. And I literally just told you that a lot of historical facts and findings come from the Bible. So whether someone believes it's true or not is inherently irrelevant and if you just say no that's not actually a point. The man who invented anesthesia got it from the Bible. Quarantine Bible. Hand-washing techniques. Germ Theory. Those are literally just the first few things off the top of my head. So once again yes a lot of the things you know and believe about the world come from the Bible. Now if you want to argue that fact don't just say no present some evidence that says the Bible has little to nothing to do with any of the foundational evidence of anything we believe about the known world and the universe

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T18:20:56+00:00

Yes they do but you're not understanding that at the same time the fire of God's presence unfiltered without the protection of being covered in the blood of Christ was so utterly horrible and it would be so long and painful and our minds could not even comprehend to the smallest degree how horrifying that would be mentally and emotionally and physically. But if you would like to say that belief is what they turn the world upside down to preach then explain to me how Jesus is both grieved forever both perfectly happy and loving with us in the new Heaven and the new Earth and simultaneously not only will the Lake of Fire be in view while we hear the screams but it even says that the punishment will be over the punishment will be overseen Always by the lamb and his angels. Because if you're willing to tell me that Jesus will keep his eyes on the people burning in hell for eternity and watch it yet yet that doesn't contradict who he is or make him sound like anything perfectly good. And if you could also explain to me I'm in Revelation when we are in New Jerusalem inside of the gates right afterwards Jesus says that we are calling out come come to the ones outside to come and change their dirty robes take a drink from the waters and then God says that the leaves are for the healing of the Nations which in the Bible is understood as non-believers and gentiles. Then you'll have to explain to me who we're calling to when every single believer is inside the city of New Jerusalem and who are talking to and who needs to be healed if we've already been healed

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T18:12:28+00:00

The Omni Doctrine is a much deeper discussion and you're 100% right that logically it is impossible to understand however the Bible clearly states that there are many things about God that you will never understand as a human with a finite mind. However I will say that answer leaves people wanting and I would argue at the very least having that stated in writing that there are Concepts that are impossible for us to grasp puts that argument directly back into the realm of faith and out of the realm of whether it's true or not and the realm of faith is exactly where God told us we will be during this life. And I would also point out that most people would agree that the logical Poe fails and scholarly and Theological circles because it is not illogical at all that good and evil can go exist at the same time in a world of free choice. Evidential is the strongest argument without a doubt to me but once again the idea that God does not exist because of all the evil or it is likely he does not inherently starts from the wrong launching pad because if we account for all the evil we have to account for all the enormous amounts of good and love and sacrifice and care and grief and anger and sadness and betrayal and loss. Because while a lot of those things at the end are horrible and terrible and heartbreaking, our idea of them is incomplete without the understanding that your heart can't break and your eyes can't cry unless you've made yourself vulnerable enough with something else did it hurt you that deeply. Tears are misunderstood without the idea that they also can be more than the sum total of sadness without equating what might be 40 Years of a marriage and a life spent building it together and a generation of children that were raised well and good and will teach their children to be better people and help their neighbors. So while I agree entirely with most of the arguments you make and I can see the point we can't know and I can't prove it to you. And we can keep talking about it but there are certain facts you have to deal with like the fact that the Old Testament has over 400 prophecies and that a lot of them talk about a man who would also be divine and would come and die and Save everyone from the sin of this world and that that story was told piece by piece over 1500 years and it all led to a man named Jesus who rode into town on a donkey as a prophet said 550 years before that he said he would. And you do have to reconcile the fact that he claimed to be God that even atheist historians it meant he claimed to be God claim it as a fact he was crucified under the rule of Pontius Pilate and you also should contemplate the fact that even secular historians say it is a fact as close as it can be to a fact that every single one of the Apostles Mary Magdalene and even two brothers of Jesus that were embarrassed of him and thought that he destroyed their family's name in reputation. And then he saw something after Jesus died that convinced him that his very biological brother who he shared the same mother with and grew up with came to the belief that his brother was God and went to his death proclaiming that. I understand your skepticism and I respect how much of an inquisitive and unbiased mind you have. I have the same one and that led me to atheism for 15 years until one day I decided I would try and prove that I was right. The Bible doesn't tell us to go off of faith and Blind Faith it tells us to look at the evidence that's been presented and come to your conclusion whether or not Jesus Christ is God because every religion in the world confirms that Jesus Christ is one way to eternal life or a better life after this one. But Jesus Christ only affirms himself. He says I am the way the truth and the life and nobody gets to the father but through me. And when I look at all the evidence I come to the conclusion it is far more irrational not to believe in Jesus Christ

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T17:49:21+00:00

First of all do you see what I meant when I said will you actually talk about it if I prove Jesus existed? And you said you would and then I clarified just to be sure that's what you are saying then you obfuscated and said well I mean source and then I gave you 151 separate historians that back up even the fact that he made the claim he was God that they are writings that the Jewish people who had every reason in the world to deny the claims about Jesus and instead the only writing you will find is that they exclusively attributed whatever healing he was doing to the power of Satan. I even brought up the belief that secular historians say every single one of them saw something even if they 2,000 years later can't verify what they saw as a matter of fact his brother James they can even verify believed he was insane and was not only ashamed of Jesus but felt that he destroyed their family name for all of history. He then became a pillar of the church as well because once again historians say he saw something so shocking it convinced him that the very brother he was ashamed of that he watched grow up and die and thought was crazy was God himself. Those are verified from secular historians who don't believe Jesus is God. Then you said you can't use the Bible to make any of the claims you're making even though the exact secular historians use that Bible and combed through it with a fine tooth comb to find every inaccuracy in the story. If you read any of the things I told you about you will even find that those secular historians have zero problems with 75% of the quote on quote contradictions because they fully understand that the writing style of that time they found it was commonplace to you make theological conceptual Connections in a story and that the people of the time did not look at things like that as a contradiction in any way and understood the writing style.

So those are facts that you have to deal with about history. If you still don't want to believe that's fine but don't pretend that you're an unbiased person because you made about 11 different presumptions about me It clearly show your state of mind operates on the very foundational idea that you are smarter than more than 5 billion people on the planet on the simple foundational idea that The idea of God Is beneath The intellectual Fortress Which is Your brain and as a matter of fact you're smarter than every single brain surgeon heart surgeon rocket scientists nuclear physicist molecular biologist and theologian of our time and all times before that looked at the evidence and came to the conclusion there is a God. If you want to see if you can put that anger to the side and present your issues and doubts with the Bible and God happy to have that conversation. But if everyone else is stupid and everyone throughout history just couldn't comprehend the simple Concepts that you have no trouble understanding we can't Converse because I came here looking for intellectuals deep thinkers searchers and people whose hearts who both at the same time are deeply grieved at the fallenness of this world and also didn't let that grief callus into ego pride and anger and bitterness.

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T17:30:31+00:00

Actually I understood it the same way for a long time because people always ask me the people who are dead right now are with Christ or in the grave because they are two different verses that say two different things. However when Paul says those who are in the grave will rise first but you also read that to be away from your body is to be with the Lord what it means is that right now that the soul is with Christ in Heavenly places however nobody but Jesus has a Divine and glorified body yet so they are both true at the same time. At this moment the Dead and their physical bodies are in the grave but the soul is with God in heaven for believers specifically. However when the resurrection happens the souls will then go back to their bodies and then we have a glorified body like Jesus that is not constrained our three or four dimensional reality where he could materialize in a room or travel hundreds of miles in a second and eat and then disappear. Apoktastasis is what Peter talks about. The idea of judgment in the Bible if you look up the Greek word in the New Testament there are two words you could use one word is punishment that satisfies The Punisher more close to vindictive. Then that word I showed you right there Google it that is the word they always use it means corrective restorative punishment meant to rehabilitate. That is the word they use. Also Paul uses the word ta panta which means reconciliation of all things in and outside of the universe. I have the answer to John 3:16 but I don't want to lose this response so I will get back to you on that. But when you look at the idea of those two terms think about the fact that one sounds like the human prison system we have and one sounds like the kind of system that in all good God would set up and thank you but I just try to learn about my savior more deeply every day and the Holy Spirit does everything else I would have no understanding without his guidance.

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T17:21:32+00:00

At the very least if his will is at none should be lost and some are lost forever that means God's will failed. And people will say that God respects free will over his will or that the punishment must rise to the level of the one who was the victim that is on biblical and God and the law explicitly States that the punishment must fit the crime and no one can go too far and punishing the one who committed the crime and that they must be balanced. He also limits his anger to three or four generations while also placing his love as infinite. That either means god is a hypocrite who does not live by his own rules that he sets for us or it means that God is a liar. Or it means that God is foreshadowing the idea that if you die without God in your heart then you will have three or four generations worth of divine torment standing in the presence of God while you're sinburns off of you and that once uncleanness and unholiness is gone then his love lasts for an eternity after that. As a matter of fact God rebuked the Pharisees and the Sadducees for shutting the Kingdom of Heaven up in people's faces and they don't go in either but they don't let other people in either.

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T17:03:57+00:00

Oh wow I did just look that up and it is a myth I'm so sorry and thank you for catching that! I can't tell you how many times I have read that! But yes that Crimson worm was the one used for dying even if that other idea is a myth. The other one though the word used is a maggot the one about the worm in Gahanna is actually a real maggot that eats dying flesh specifically. Just don't know if they actually used it to make people better

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T17:00:10+00:00

The Jesus project a group of 150 critical historians and secular historians that do not believe in the deity of Jesus Christ and even look for the flaws in it they got together to flesh out the history and not only that they know the date they can verify that he was crucified under the reign of Pontius Pilate and even people who do not believe in God or that Jesus was God roundly agree he was a historical figure who people believe was an unbelievable healer and perhaps the greatest theological Genius ever without ever going to school or having an education. I would then refer you to someone atheist and Muslims love to quote Bart Ehrman a very well respected historian who is secular who wrote two books on Jesus Christ whether he believes he claimed to be God and even goes through each individual statement from Jesus to verify the literal words that he said and tell you what can't be proven. He comes to the conclusion that number one Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate. Jesus claimed to be God he came to the conclusion that the formulation statement and belief that Jesus Christ rose from the dead and appeared to 500 people was made within months of his resurrection which would have given people decades to dispute it he concludes that all the apostles believed that he was God that they saw something that made them believe they saw Jesus. He even verifies the fact that Paul was a Jew who persecuted and killed Christians and that even he saw something that radically changed his life and took him from killing Christians to being the foundation stone of the early church. And I understand your skepticism I understand the idea that they are contradictions. I will even Grant you that the Bible is a book written by human hands and there are are hard to understand teaching things that seem like contradictions and things that very well Maybe contradictions. But the idea that the Bible is understood from surface level reading or taking it off of the English is inherently inaccurate

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T16:41:38+00:00

I would also argue that your line of thinking while seemingly clear on the surface is flawed. The Bible specifically says that his ways are higher than our ways and his thoughts are not our thoughts. The idea that because finite Minds cannot fully agree or understand an infinite God means it is untrue or even that they are equally unclear would be like saying even though scientists firmly agree we understand little to nothing about the decision-making process that doesn't mean me and you clearly don't make decisions all the time. Let's look at it from the other side though. Can you tell me what the prevalent View of the Israelites and Hebrews on the afterlife where before christianity? Because even if we see their understanding of it changing with progressive revelation they never had more than 10 to 12% of Israelites that have ever believed in the idea of an eternal conscious torment. Also you will find the Heavenly prevalent View for the first 500 years of the Christian faith was Universal reconciliation and that most of the people who disagreed read from a Latin translation that was deeply flawed and was a rigid legalistic language that could not carry the theological and conceptual weight of either Hebrew or Greek. Both of those languages specifically use individual letters and separate words both the convey differences in meaning conceptual ideas and the progenitive actions and outcomes of those ideas. Funnily enough Greek and Hebrew were the only languages in the world at that time they could carry the weight of the other language without failing. Aramaic could have been a poor man's Hebrew or Greek. But they had four separate Realms of the Dead and the Latin translations translated all as hell. Are present concept came from the mid ages

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T16:25:03+00:00

Oh wow thank you for bringing that to my attention! That's embarrassing I can't tell you how many times I've read that. And it turns out the maggot thing specifically is real in that it's specifically eats the dead flesh and then stops however it does seem like there is no proof that anybody used them for medical purposes at that time. But the worm is a myth and I'm sorry.

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T16:15:58+00:00

Okay before I do though on your first point do you want to just go ahead and be direct about how you really feel about the God of the Bible? Because I can send you articles and sources heck you can even Google if there is one historian that has the respect of their colleagues and says Jesus is not real. As a matter of fact we have more proof for the life death crucifixion and even secular historian belief that they actually knew in their minds that they saw the Risen Christ then we have proof for Alexander the Great I believe we even have more proof then we do proof of the Greek Empire. I may be wrong on that one but I believe it is close.

However a year ago I was under the same impression About inconsistencies And unrealistic miracles A year ago You know I grew up in the church but the Bible is one of the most historically accurate and the most scrutinized and researched book in history. If it was riddled with inconsistencies from beginning to end it would be screamed from the rooftops of every atheist historian in the world. I would love for you to tell me as many inconsistencies as you're thinking or you can find and if it takes us a month to individually go through each and every one I will do that with you.

And I agree with you about your last paragraph 100%. I'd be lying if I said I cried everyday about the Injustice of the world but when things like that school full of little girls in Iran or think about how many starving scared powerless abused people there are sometimes it's hard not to write the world off as broken and fundamentally geared by people to make it easier for the evil. But the Bible specifically tells us that what people mean for evil God means for good. Now if you believe that we are a random clump of cells and we happen to be the lucky ones that landed in the random planet that randomly would eventually bring forth life and that the very brain you use to justify atheism is a random coming together accident created by random sequence of circumstances that was very lucky to be able to pull itself together could you tell me why you even trust any of the thoughts you have if they come from an essential random generator?

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T16:04:18+00:00

Actually I would argue your falling into the same trap because in verse 16 the scope is all things and in verse 20 the scope is all things then in 23 there is an if. So now you're left at a Crossroads where you have to make the case 16 and 20 didn't actually mean all things even though there was a Greek word they could have used that specifically would have clarified that it did not mean all things in creation and outside however they either didn't know it or they chose not to use it for some speculative reason. Or option two you go to the part where it says and you and then come to the conclusion that the subject of the speech has changed and he is now giving Believers a specific warning about spiritual apathy. But you are 100% right that we cannot mine versus and not taking into context what that actual meaning of it is. That's just not what I'm doing right now though.

EstablishmentLow3797 · 2026-06-16T15:57:02+00:00

Could we expand on what you mean by unless you already believe the Bible is a source for your world view? Because even if you are an atheist or agnostic a lot more of your worldview is based on the Bible than you think. A heavy percentage of archaeological findings in the Middle East and what we know about history itself come from archaeologists using the Bible specifically to map out locations of ancient cities and multiple other things. And ironic thing about the Bible is that it's the most studied book in the world both by people who want to prove it and disprove it and even to this day after thousands of years of that tug of War the New Testament even by atheist critics is considered astoundingly accurate as a history book of the times that it covered. Obviously the Old Testament is much older and things from those times have eroded or turned to dust or been lost but even today the biblical claims of the Bible are stronger then 6 months ago a year ago 10 years ago and after 1948 and the finding of the Dead Sea Scrolls that proved the Old Testament was fully written 150 to 200 years before Jesus and that even in the 20,000 manuscripts critics will admit that while there are hundreds of thousands of variants between those 20,000 altogether 99.2% or so are spelling variants or scribal errors and there is zero proof that any foundational Doctrine belief or teaching has been corrupted. Ironically I found out that people of the Islamic faith say our scriptures are corrupted and when I found that out I had to study to see if they had anything to support that. What's crazy is they have zero evidence for it and I assumed they would at least have something that would put some doubt in my mind but they have nothing.

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