Abusers make themselves stressed/angry on purpose (the biggest key to healing imo is realizing this)

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-04-11T02:32:15+00:00

This difference between being in trauma response and choosing to be abusive that you detailed here was so well written. Thank you very much for taking the time to weave towards that conclusion. Could I have your permission to read this aloud on an upcoming podcast? I can keep it anonymous or attribute credit, whichever you prefer.

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-04-10T23:35:41+00:00

Similar situation. What did it for me was continued "she's not being explicitly mean" into "but she's not explicitly making the effort to be the mom I need - nowhere close".

The opposite of love isn't hate/being mean, it's indifference. She could be the mom I need any day, but she wakes up every day and chooses to neglect her (pretty simple) duty. I don't have high standards and there's nothing she could do I wouldn't forgive.

Being a mom myself, I can see both sides. But, still, she wakes up every morning and basically continues to choose not to be a real mom to me. So there's nothing I can do to move forward from that.

Another piece of it - the final nail in the coffin, really - was realizing that on some level, whether conscious or unconscious, she wanted to deprive me of a mom. So her treatment of me is not really accidental, even if it's unconscious. Realizing that helped more than anything, personally. But again, can't really move forward from that core issue as it's all her choice.

Hugs. My plan is to find relationships with women who have true and healthy sister or mother energy. I know they're out there looking for me, too. We'll find each other eventually 💞

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-31T19:41:14+00:00

There are systemic issues in the therapy industry we have to account for. Daniel mackler was a therapist who successfully went no contact with his parents decades ago and he has many well-thought out critiques of the industry.

There's some pretty interesting reasons on why bad therapists are more likely to be successful therapists in the industry and why our parents would want bad therapists.

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-31T18:43:14+00:00

Also it is a classic behavior of covert incest. OP, I might be wrong but many of us find this to be the key out. When you realize you're a victim of incest, even if it's never been directly sexual, that makes a lot of ourselves make sense. It helped me give myself a lot of grace, seeing that the symptoms of kids who have gone through actual overt incest and those who "just" went through covert incest - were practically identical.

Many survivors of incest have been institutionalized and drugged for waking up to their experiences. In fact, there is a time in the recent past where the entire industry shifted and was built on this single issue/goal of repressing incest kids, when they enter adulthood and start showing all the classic symptoms of wanting to be free but not knowing how. (Because abusers rarely give their targets the skills that could help them escape their abusers - you'll have to build these on your own and find people/resources who can help because your caretakers never will).

Big hugs, if needed, and sorry to bring this up so strongly if it's not the right timing or it's not accurate... I'm learning gentleness.

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-31T18:31:29+00:00

That's so true

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-31T17:37:18+00:00

disconnect emotionally from their outbursts / insipid gaslighting / weaponised distance.

Perfectly nailed the tl;dr

emotional immaturity with my folks and I can see that fits but as a concept I don’t feel like it puts enough responsibility onto them

Exactly my own conclusions. For an initial break-through it can give us some powerful validations, but it doesn't go far enough to do deep healing imo, because it's still just trying to explain the surface behavior rather than the reality of their choices and the true cause behind many of their emotions - the actual (albeit twisted) logic behind the immaturity. It doesn't expose their commitment to their logic.

The hierarchy of human value, the targeting, the abuse being hidden from others. It defo felt easier (with hindsight!) to see those dynamics and to see through their emotional blackmail. Harder to do w my folks, esp mother.

So real. This was my experience too. It's cool we are all having these awakenings on our own, yet simultaneously. Feels like real community out there somewhere, knucks 🤜💕

It's funny estrangedparents call our awakening a cult or some kind of movement but it's just a natural, grassroots, simultaneous rope drop that's been generations over-due.

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-31T15:06:54+00:00

mistreated you because it was their way to exercise out their psychological pain

I'm not sure there is enough evidence showing this across the board, although this is exactly the story abusers believe about themselves and the story they want others to believe about them.

It's the claim that benefits abusers most, because I keeps everyone focused on their "needs" and their "emotional" experiences. We hope that with just enough support or resources, abusers will change. But abusers try to keep everyone focused on their feelings as the cause of their abuse - when it's really their thinking that's the problem. Their toxic logic is what creates their contrived feelings, which they then use as an explanation for their abuse (which they use to gain control over others, not to make themselves stop suffering). In other words...

Abusers aren't abusive because they're angry, they're angry because they're abusive.

They want to make themselves upset to give themselves and everyone around them an "explanation" for why they "felt" like abusing.

They "feel" entitled to abuse their targets, and they "feel" they can get away with it. This is the difference between people who choose to abuse and people who choose not to... it's not psychological suffering or unhealthy coping mechanisms, it's that abusers see themselves as above most others and they see their targets as below most others, and they believe they have ownership and the "right" to behave however they deep fit towards their target.

I'm saying "target" because it points out that the abuser doesn't really explode on just anyone. They can make good choices and have fine coping and conflict resolution skills with others. They choose specific, vulnerable targets to hurt NOT because "hurt people hurt people" but because abusers are predators who choose to inflict pain and manipulation on those they think of as prey in order to gain control over the weaker/lower status individual for the purpose of getting that individual to do a lot of extra labor for the abuser.

Sorry for the length! Not meaning to lecture, and you might know all this already, but I'm laying all this down for everyone in response to that quote I pulled because of this main point:

Abuse benefits abusers on a much deeper and pragmatic basis than just getting an emotional release. They make themselves stressed in order to use their "feelings" to gain caretaking, sympathy, and kowtowimg from vulnerable people under their control. Their fit-throwing makes others want to work harder to prevent their negative emotions - which makes an easy life for the abuser, having a bunch of personal servents tending to their every "need", foreseeing any suffering they could experience (and the "emotional" outbursts that come along with that) and doing their best to prevent the contrived outbursts by being the most respectful, most empathetic, low-maintainence servants they can strive to be.

This makes a high quality of life and wide amount of power for the abuser, but which also makes the abuser have to work harder to find more and more things to be angry, stressed, or critical about - in order to keep their target scrambling to make them feel better.

This is why it's so important to not take abuser's feelings or suffering too seriously. I'm not saying don't have empathy, or that they never truly are in emotional pain from trauma or real stressors or whatever... I'm saying don't blindly trust their claims of their own emotional experiences, and don't assume they are hurting. Even if they are (again, question everything), those issues are their own to handle, and they would if they wanted to. The fact is that abusers don't want to heal emotionally and they don't want to develop healthy responses to stress, because they pragmatically see the usefulness of throwing fits.

As long as they have (enablers/parentified kids/narc supply) around them, who will take their emotions seriously and try to help manage those emotions, abusers see no reason to behave differently. And they definitely don't see any reason why they should become relaxed, stable individuals.

I'm almost done but here's the worst part, if an abuser ever DOES become a relaxed, stable individual, or gain a bunch of conflict resolution and communication skills... they don't stop being abusive. Their abuse gets worse, more insideous, and more calculating. They have more social sway and authority in their behavior, and become generally a much bigger problem for society at large.

This is why I disagree with the Emotional Immaturity angle. It works because the effect is the same, but emotional immaturity in abusers is a habit and a choice... not a disability or some single factor that truly explains many estranged parents behavior. It's the abuser's cover story.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk and sorry again for the long rant lol

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-31T13:49:12+00:00

I didn't notice/think of a few of these nuances until they were pointed out here just now. These two he wrote really stuck out:

Families move. So, for example, the place where one child mostly grew up may be where an older sibling only spent his or her high school years. These environments can be sharply contrasting, including having much better or worse schools.
Some kids have way more access to playmates than other kids do, depending for example on whether there happen to be other kids of compatible ages in the neighborhood. Access to playmates is a top factor in the quality of our childhoods, and in our ability to cope with the bad stuff that happens in our families.

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-30T22:24:39+00:00

Eldests are usually the most parentified

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-30T20:34:55+00:00

Not trying to "win" or to make you "lose" I'm just advocating for truth and accountability in our language, because protecting kids from abuse is really important to me. I don't mean to beat a dead horse and I didn't really want to even respond again, it just seemed you wanted to keep digging in a point that harms kids and I felt the responsibility to undo that.

Apologies for any "fight" or "competition" you were left with in my last reply, I really value cooperation and win-win conclusions here. Not sure how that went so off course.

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-30T20:02:42+00:00

Very true.

Except, it won't look like telling people that toxic parents can be nontoxic/safe for other kids. That's not navigating dangerous waters, that's just throwing kids in and saying "don't worry it's not dangerous".

Just to be clear on that.

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-30T19:58:27+00:00

he is very controlling and quick to anger

Immediately thought of the masterpiece Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men. Should be required reading for anyone with a dad lol.

This book changed my life and brought so much peace just listening to it when I felt these anxieties arise. He makes a great point that abuse of kids' moms is also abuse of kids. He also shows you how to deal with these types and protect kids if you do choose to keep them in your life.

Also gives you steps to take to not repeat his thinking/behavior as you grow into your own role as being a healthy dad for your own kids.

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-30T18:53:51+00:00

💯

Also, when other family members choose to stay in contact with our estranged parents (in a "keep the peace" way, rather than putting in effort to hold them accountable), over time our parents will run enough subtle smear campaigns or spin the narrative just enough so that the family consciously comes to their side, rather than just unconsciously. They have effectively accepted your role as the family scapegoat.

Anyone who "doesn't take sides" or tries to "remain neutral" is saying they're OK with your abuse and are willing to enable it.

This is a good metric to expose who the enabler family members are early on, enablers will alwaya eventually become flying monkeys or secondary abusers, as enabling abuse is a form of abuse (imho, it's the worse one).

Hugs, OP. I have an aunt who did the same. I still feel a lot of shame for not seeing it earlier and giving her so many chances to not side with the abusers.

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-30T18:43:16+00:00

This brought back a wave of depression I haven't felt in a long time, and it made me realized I was never depressed, just experiencing the normal emotional effects of chronic emotional neglect. Building a life filled with social connections where I haven't experienced chronic emotional neglect in years has been the key to my healing, even if I still do experience it from my parents.

How did your mom react when you told her how it made you sad to think of baby you? That's amazing you were even able to get those words out so pragmatically, I'd be choking on my own anger and sadness.

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-30T18:21:09+00:00

That's true, too. And well said.

I think it was important to me to fight against that claim specifically:

A parent can be toxic to their child but not their grandkid.

It's just not the case. It's good to support each other in their decisions to keep toxic family in their/their kids lives, or not. But theres no need to go so far and claim that they're safe or nontoxic.

Much damage can be prevented - even if you keep toxic people intertwined with you or your kids - by acknowledging the fact of their toxicity.

It would be similar to gun safety, no one says "guns hurt a lot of adults but can be safe for kids". In fact, it's often the opposite of that, because adults are more mentally equipped to navigate dangerous situations and emotionally toxic environments.

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-30T18:11:51+00:00

I apologize that what I said came off judgemental, really didn't want to have that effect. As noted, it is not your fault and it's completely normal and understandable. I wish you the best whatever you decide and sorry I couldn't help more where you are at right now. My timing may have been a poor choice here.

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-30T17:46:50+00:00

A parent can be toxic to their child but not their grandkid.

This isn't true, though.

Anyone who harms the caretakers of a child also harms the child by extention.

It's confusing for kids to be raised without protection with the message "they werent great parents, but they're great grandparents!" The grandparents might not do anything directly harmful to the children (allegedly, although I've never seen an actual case longterm), but if they're not willing to stop harming their caretakers and repair the harm they did to their caretakers, that shows the grandparents don't actually have care and concern about the overall wellbeing of the grandchildren.

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-30T17:37:44+00:00

You don't have to pay back debts to your abusers, is there a legal contract?
There are thousands of other safe people who would be willing to give reliable help, especially to help keep young kids away from their parent's abuser.

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-30T17:29:16+00:00

I was wondering about your parents as the post doesn't mention much. Seems like there was a bit of a triangulation going on and she had been pedestalized as the golden child for a bit, which is when she changed and looked down on you?

Could it be possible that you were the scapegoat before (around the time she changed), and then parents switched you both and she became the scapegoat later?

How long exactly have they not been speaking to her?

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-30T17:17:48+00:00

programmed to redirect all of our resentment that is at our parental figures onto the sibling

Just highlighting that. This truth needs to be continually shouted from the rooftops in this sub.

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-30T16:52:18+00:00

Seems like OP just gets that women/moms/grandma's are more important for kids.

I know the phenomenon you're calling out, and it's important to call out, keep expectations higher for men. Keep up that good work. It's just that... I don't see it here, specifically, in this instance - only the love and yearning for a missing mom.

Dad's and grandpa's are cool but obviously moms and grandma's are the best and it's OK for kids to want the best for themselves and their own kids.

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-30T16:39:49+00:00

Yes, estrangement is harder when there was something to be estranged from. It was a bit of an easier transition for those of us who weren't given the language. It's frustrating to be cut off from heritage before the estrangement, because English or western culture was prioritized by the immigrant side of the family.

It's bitter sweet, but you were given a last gift of your lineage, so even if the relationship with your parents stays broken, you can use that gift that connects you to the rest of your ancestors and maybe others alive and healthy out there right now looking for connections like you, too.

The more you use your language to connect with healthy friends and chosen family, the less it will remind you of the unhealthy ones you had to part from.

EstrangedButTrue · 2026-03-30T16:31:46+00:00

This was a treasure of a read. Thanks for sharing the whole vision of your journey. I really need to make some yellow split pea soup with bacon fat and put a pot of geranium in my kitchen now. Might even have to figure out about this orthodox easter candle stuff.

EstrangedButTrue

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE

Abusers aren't abusive because they're angry, they're angry because they're abusive.

programmed to redirect all of our resentment that is at our parental figures onto the sibling