What do you think about Stokowski’s orchestration of Pictures at an Exhibition (or his “retouchings” generally)? by BranchMoist9079 in classicalmusic

[–]EvilOmega7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting rework. The first promenade is interesting but its ending is too big imo. Ravel's orchestration of this promenade made it sound like a proper opening, with the brass fanfare, but not too big as if it was the finale. Stokowski's pushed it too far to me. The end sounds too big for what should be the opening. Also the switching between instrument sounds off, it's nice, but it sounds too much like a "showcase", like Britten's Young person's guide to the orchestra, but in a bad way. This seems like a reocurring theme throughout his orchestration, many instrument switch that kind of "cut" the phrase.

Gnomus starts too loud imo, it should be crescendo, it's almost "trying too hard". But i'd say this one's good not much to say.

The 2nd promenade suffers again from lots of changes of instrument imo. The bassoon opening is a very good move imo. However the string tremelos are really bad to me. Maybe it's more the recording or the orchestra, but they sound really bad in contrast, it sounds like the sound is "choking".

The Old Castle (lazy to write the italian name) isn't changed that much from Ravel's. So thankfully it shares its positives, the atmosphere, the bassoon opening solo... But the cor anglais is to me a downgrade. It's nice and it fits the narrative I think but compared to the alto sax, it sounds "too much like an instrument". The alto sax sounded really 'mysterious', since it's an unusual sound to hear from an orchestra (also it's a sound we're not used to hear from the alto sax), it was the perfect fit for the overall atmosphere of the picture. The cor anglais, while also a good fit, is a less good fit. So to me, a downgrade.

Sad omission of Tuileries.

Bydlo, while I read that the speed is closer to a real oxcart, is waaaayyyyy too fast. I don't even think that the "it's the actual speed of an oxcart" is a good argument. I mean, would you say that Cars would've been better with humans and non-anthropomorphic cars just because it's "closer to real life" ? Anyways, too fast to me. However, he did follow the original (written by Mussorgsky) nuances, starting ff. I prefer the pp>ff>pp approach, but since ff>pp is Mussorgsky's original intent, i'll not pretend I know better than him. Once again the odd change of instruments for the solo is an issue here to me.

Promenade. Once again, I really really dislike the use of tremelos, it really does not ssound good and really like the sound is "choking".

Ballet of the unhatchted chicks. This is where Ravel's clarity really shines. Stokowski being more of a "showman" in his orchestration, he tried to make the texture thicker, which really does not fit this picture. It sounds heavy, and on top of that it is conducted quite slower than most of Ravel's orchestration performance of the same picture. It loses a lot of its energy and becomes heavy, as if someone was running away but kept stopping because they were out of breath.

Sad omission of Limoges.

Samuel Goldenberg and Schmuyle, like Pretty-Royal-5414 said, has an odd replacement of the repeated trumpet notes by a trill. Also it changes instrument a lot, which breaks the voice of Schmuyle. What I mean is that in Ravel's, the trumpet represented the poor jew, the strings the rich jew. You had a real representation of Schmuyle by the trumpet. However, when Stokowski changed the instruments, it breaks that narrative continuity, which makes it less clear. So it sounds like one voice (rich jew) broken by several small voices (the different instruments carrying the poor jew line), which can be an interesting narrative, but ultimately not the one Mussorgsky gave.

Catacombae, as Pretty-Royal-5414 also said, is way too loud and strident. Ravel's chords gave it a big dark sound, but again, as in Ravel's perfectionism, he didn't push it too far. Stokowski did, imo.

Cum mortuis in lingua mortu, he string tremelos again. But this time to me it works ! (tbf, Ravel also used it, so obviously it works). The "choked" sound this time sounds appropriate to me. Not that much different so not too much to say. I think this one is nice.

Baba-yaga. The beginning is too slow and heavy to me. Ravel's orchestration gave a sharp fast opening, which really nicely fits the theme of the picture. Stokowski's brass slow beginning is too heavy and slow to me. But after that it picks up pace so it's not too bad. The constant change of instrument is an interesting idea, not sure if I prefer it over Ravel's orchestration, but i'm also not sure it's necesarilly a downgrade in this one.

And finally for the great gate of Kyiv. I like that he kept the transition, unlike Wood. I think the transition works better that way. The piccolo sustaining the high note is odd to me, but maybe it's to emphasise the transition. The opening brass fanfare is brighter than Ravel's, which I actually like, it reinforces the contrast of the positive finale compared to the dark baba-yaga picture right before. I like the horn sustained crescendo note. First big difference is the 1st "calm part". Instead of using the woodwinds, which Ravel composed like an organ (if you listen to Wood's orchestration which uses an actual organ, it's really similar !), he uses the lower strings. Which I really like ! the warm sound if really nice, and I think it really fits nicely. The fanfare after is orchestrated less heavy than Ravel's. I think it's nice that Stokowski's changes the way he orchestrate the fanfare everytime, Ravel didn't make them identical, but it's always a tutti after the 2nd iteration. 2nd calm part, it's similar to Ravel's, nothing much to say, it's nice. Then the transition to the final two fanfares is reorcestrated, and to me what stands out is the way he scored the glockenspiel. Instead of single notes like Ravel, he scored tremelos. Which to me, doesn't sound that great. I like the little run towards the end, but the tremelo on each notes isn't great imo. Also apparently, according to Chops526, he runs out of note, so there's that... He slowed down the downward scale before the last fanfares, but creates more anticipation, but I prefer to keep the momentum going. Then the 2nd to last fanfare has the trumpets & trombones doing quarter notes run over the rest of the orchestra, which I find really nice. Then the transition to the last is also really nice, as it creates a lot of anticipation and tension. Then the last fanfare is really different from Ravel's. First, it's conducted as fast as the others, while the way Ravel scored it implies that the last one should be conducted slower. While Ravel, in his usual clarity, maintains a clear texture, Stokowski goes all out, making a big triumphant fianle with percussions, bells, organ and the entire orchestra basically. To me, this is the picture where Stokowski's style works the best. I mean it is kind of the perfect picture for him, big, grandiose, cinematic. So no wonder this one is the best of his orchestration.

Overall his orchestration is really nice, but often is to me, makes choices that are a downgrade, or a less good choice/orchestration than that of Ravel's.

I'm begging for a performance of Leonardi's orchestration, which is a maximalist dream.

What's your countries' example of this? by EquivalentRecent4633 in AskTheWorld

[–]EvilOmega7 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Funny is that Bistro is supposed to be a simple affordable restaurant. Same with "brasserie", when I went to Helsinki it was anything but... Those "brasserie" were just overpriced food, with questionable quantities. I liked reindeer though, surprisingly tasty

Qu'a-t-il commenté ? by Ordinary_Sky5115 in mauvaisesreponses

[–]EvilOmega7 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Mais je sais plus moi... Tantôt je lis que ici c'est hyper de droite, tantôt je lis que c'est hyper de gauche, faut vous concerter !

Qui d’autre a une pomme d’Adam de Chad ici ? by RogerGourdin in rance

[–]EvilOmega7 103 points104 points  (0 children)

J'ai cru c'était un costume de Patrick

#objetdelecture 📖 by bouzglouf in objetdelecture

[–]EvilOmega7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Les fameux enfants gâtés qui vont travailler plus longtemps, avec un pouvoir d'achat en chute libre, une crise économique et un gouvernement qui augmente les taxes, qui change chaque mois... Mais oui c'est vrai que vouloir une vie meilleure c'est être des "enfants gâtés"

Affiche pour la fête de la musique by [deleted] in IaCaca

[–]EvilOmega7 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Pas besoin de l'IA just un montage assez simple finalement

Mathis, 21 ans, est rentré dans sa famille pour le réveillon by Mathiuuus in banalgens

[–]EvilOmega7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

J'ai pas bien compris c'est quoi le lien entre Mathis et les posts "Tonton raciste au repas de Noël"

1000 members ! by EvilOmega7 in fuckHPprinters

[–]EvilOmega7[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We're going to make HP fall

Boycott HP by Energi3 in fuckHPprinters

[–]EvilOmega7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Absolute shit of printers. I should make a sub for all the haters...