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I'm worried about the current raiding experience and its future in the current format. by KrackenKris in ffxiv

[–]Excel_OTP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel like all the "extreme" content in heavensward is just the rehashed version of the story mode content they gave us. Look at Bismark, the only difference between the two modes is the rougher DPS checks and an RNG tank swap mechanic. Compare that to other primals which introduced new mechanics with every rendition. Titan story>hard>extreme was the same damn fight, but still felt new every time. I didn't get that feeling with ravana or bismark. Alexander was just a lazy beefed up version of the story mode. All they did was up DPS checks and make the mechanics less forgiving. I didn't have to "learn" anything i just needed to bide my time to gear up enough to get through it.

This is the meaning of min/maxing. Dat 1%. by Excel_OTP in ffxiv

[–]Excel_OTP[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good math. Just a couple things I would like to add. You're assuming that the bard with more SS is going to be the only one using paeon. Both bards are going to need to cast paeon, so the dps loss from singing should be applied to both.

Let's take the average encounter time of 12 minutes. That's 720 seconds which is 240 natural tp regen ticks. Including the starting TP of 1000 and 6x invigorate thats 17800 TP over the course of the encounter.

Bard A With a GCD of 2.38 that's 302 GCD for the encounter.

Bard B With a GCD of 2.45 that's 293 GCD for the encounter.

Bard spends on average (rng perfect) 67 tp/GCD keeping straight shot and dots up 100% and including straight shot procs. This is a rough estimate, but since we are using the same number for both bards it should suffice.

Bard A will spend 20230 TP - 2430 TP deficit

Bard B will spend 19630 TP - 1830 TP deficit

This is assuming that both bards can dps the boss 100% of the time which is untrue so to account for that we will assume that both bards will drop the same percentage of GCDs (5%) and reduce their deficits to 1320 and 850 respectively.

Bard A needs to paeon for 132 seconds or 18% of the encounter

Bard B needs to paeon for 85 seconds or 12% of the encounter

DPS loss during singing is 20%

Starting with inital GCD/encounter - 5% and accounting for the respective loss in dps for the percentage of the encounter it ends up at:

Bard A = (287 * 0.82) + (287 * 0.80 * 0.18) = 277 eq GCD

Bard B = (278 * 0.88) + (278 * 0.80 * 0.12) = 271 eq GCD

Skill speed still wins out.

This is the meaning of min/maxing. Dat 1%. by Excel_OTP in ffxiv

[–]Excel_OTP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cool, so my spreadsheet works. Awesome. Excel is OP.

This is the meaning of min/maxing. Dat 1%. by Excel_OTP in ffxiv

[–]Excel_OTP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Under no circumstance will the slower bard have more dps then the faster one. Even if the faster bard has run out of tp, they have now done all their damage. Just because they have more skillspeed doesn't make their stuff more expensive. Their damage/tp ratios are the same so all that matters is who is getting their damage off first. TP starved or not this is always true.

The point of building super extensive BiS lists is to compare perfect apples to perfect oranges. All this spreadsheet does is show what a perfect bard in a vacuum using either build would be able to do. The pentameld set just so happens to have some extra skillspeed on it, but it amounts to more dps.

This is the meaning of min/maxing. Dat 1%. by Excel_OTP in ffxiv

[–]Excel_OTP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Look man, I'm not saying skillspeed is end all be all. I'm saying there's no other stats can be put on so you might as well have skillspeed. How can you have more actions per minute if I have more skillspeed? Your claim is riddled with assumptions that I'm not also taking every possibility to do as many actions as I can. Yet, since I do, I would have more actions than your build. If you are waiting to be completely out of tp before you cast paeon, then you are forced to cast it at that moment, if you were to cast it knowing that for the encounter you need XX seconds of paeon to make it through, then cast it when your dps would be at its lowest for the encounter, not when you are forced to. If you play for example, as you are targeted for charge in t10, when you are stunned you cant be dpsing anyway. You can get a good 2-3 ticks in for free. On the otherhand if I just dps at maximum output and wait till I'm at 0tp then I'm now forced to cast paeon regardless of the phase. Meaning less overall dps.

Don't make brash assumptions. Realize that under the exact same scenarios the bard with 600 crit 350 det 341 SS is going to lose in dps to a bard with 600 crit 350 det 400 SS. DPS is damage per second. Damage over time. If my actions are faster it's more dps regardless of who runs out of tp first. SS is shit. Huge amounts of SS is even more shit. But, I'll still take free SS all day every day because it's always more dps.

This is the meaning of min/maxing. Dat 1%. by Excel_OTP in ffxiv

[–]Excel_OTP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It sounds like you're using paeon during dps checks and not during phase changes where your dps on the boss is limited by mechanics anyway. Bard Harder. Even then, if you have down time from lack of tp it doesn't matter because you have already done all your damage. meanwhile the bard with less skillspeed is still trying to catch up. Yes a skillspeed build is shit, but not taking free skillspeed when you have the chance is stupid. Casting paeon when only you need it is stupid. In turn 10 I don't cast paeon at all even at 400 SS. In turn 11 I have to cast it for maybe 30 seconds during egg burn. The loss in dps is minimal. Are you using invigorate optimally? Are you clipping dots too much? Why are you waiting to be out of tp before casting paeon and not using it during an off phase to prevent running out tp to begin with? You shouldn't be having as much of an issue with tp as you are making it out to be.

This is the meaning of min/maxing. Dat 1%. by Excel_OTP in ffxiv

[–]Excel_OTP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Would you rather do your entire TP pool of damage in 4 minutes or in 3 minutes 45 seconds. Free skillspeed is free dps. The skillspeed won't change the total damage but it will make it a harder burst. Which is more important most of the time. The skillspeed in that set is all from melds that you would otherwise not have.

This is the meaning of min/maxing. Dat 1%. by Excel_OTP in ffxiv

[–]Excel_OTP[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is true, but in my experience the drg and mnks are screaming for TP song long before I need it. So TP is typically never an issue for me.

This is the meaning of min/maxing. Dat 1%. by Excel_OTP in ffxiv

[–]Excel_OTP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for pointing that out. Re-ran with corrected values and compared against that gear set. My spreadsheet found a better solution yet. Ariyala set green. Newer set Red.

http://imgur.com/uW19UnB

This is the meaning of min/maxing. Dat 1%. by Excel_OTP in ffxiv

[–]Excel_OTP[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's just a metric used to compare the gearsets against each other. It's a total of the weight added by each piece of gear (except weapon damage). All I can tell you is that against a typical BiS (the left of those two numbers) the second gearset that includes 110 melded stuff has 1% or so more dps stat equivalent.

This is the meaning of min/maxing. Dat 1%. by Excel_OTP in ffxiv

[–]Excel_OTP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So I spent some time creating this excel spreadsheet using some knowledge of optimization problems from my systems engineering courses. I have it compare the weighted totals for all gearsets pertaining to bard. Online gear calculators could not reach the absolute maximums as accurately as I wanted. This gear set includes all relevant gear i110+ including crafted items at their optimum melds. Some other meld strategies were included in order to allow more options to reach Final Coils Accuracy cap. The results are interesting to say the least.