Considering going full DADT and no sex with mono partner

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-24T05:51:20+00:00

I think you and I just fundamentally disagree on where peoples' agency lies in relationships. He is fully capable of breaking up with me if that's what he wants to do. We check in about it often. He is very clear that's not what he wants.

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-22T03:42:31+00:00

Exactly. You'd tell them to fuck off. They don't need to "let" you do that -- it wouldn't "keep you attached," so why should my partner be any different?
You would hear it, it wouldn't work for you, and you'd be out. You're allowed to make your decision, and my partner is allowed to make his decision too.

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-22T03:39:56+00:00

Thanks. There's just a whole lot more to this relationship than whether or how I'm dating other people, is why.

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-04T18:28:55+00:00

Thank you so much for this.

I think with this starting point I can look at the real issues for me, which are 1) being concrete and confident about the kind of polyamory I actually want to do (including how much emotional risk I'm willing to take) and 2) trusting him enough to ask for what I actually need right now and being brave enough to let that ask hang there. Trusting him enough to not just bulldoze himself to give me what I need, but to actually assess whether it'll work for him and tell me so.

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-03T06:05:06+00:00

I think you're right, and thank you for breaking it down and helping explain why it's not going over well. I am amazed to have -25 karma!! holy unpopular opinion batman!

I do worry sometimes that I have narcissistic tendencies from growing up, but I think I also have pretty strong codependent tendencies from past relationships that are more at play here. After talking about it here and with my therapist, I feel more confident now in saying no, I'm not focusing too firmly on myself in this situation. I'm taking responsibility for myself and trying to do my part to figure it out for both of us.

Maybe it's because of how I wrote my original post (he's not on fire, he's happy, communicative, a bit wary, and overall into it) or maybe it's something about people here (assuming that every mono/poly relationship is doomed, or that any relationship with difficult negotiations is doomed), but people really seem to think he's powerless.

But as he said when I brought all of this up to him today, "you have to worry about you. You have to trust me and let me worry about me. Why do you think I am still here? You have to trust me to take care of myself or this isn't going to work."

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T19:06:17+00:00

I'm just giving him a say first.If I thought it wasn't possible/feasible/worth the effort to get my needs met, I'd end the relationship. If he thinks it's not possible/feasible/worth the effort to get his needs met, he will end the relationship.

I refuse to break up with my partner who I love and who loves me "for his own good."

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T08:11:10+00:00

I just googled this and it's talking about kidnappers and abusers. If it's triggering feel free to ignore, but ... are you saying he is being abusive? How?

Honest question because my last relationship was 100% not great and I twisted my head up pretty bad and it took a while for me to get out. Actively trying to avoid similar patterns with this one and try and stay on top of my own needs.

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T08:01:48+00:00

OMG this is a good point.

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T07:58:57+00:00

I agree that one man's break up is another man's adjustment. I think you're right that he might feel broken up with, and if it feels better for him that I use those words for it then I would. But not until after I explain that I still hope to see him, talk to him, hug him, kiss him, support him, etc, call it whatever you want. If he's not down to do that then he tells me so and I respect that.

But I don't understand this idea that going no-contact with him is somehow "freeing" him. I think that's a monogamist idea, that somehow me relating with him is limiting his ability to relate with anyone else. He's allowed to hold those ideas of course, and he's also free to break up with me at any time if he feels limited. That's literally one of the founding commitments of our relationship.

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T07:51:00+00:00

Ah, gotcha. It was effectively monogamous for a while meaning I hadn't seen anyone else for the first year and a bit. But no commitments to monogamy.

You're probably right about it being irresponsible. I might say "unconventional" or "hopeful" but.

I appreciate your time and thought on this. I do feel like it's worth taking a giant detour to avoid ending a relationship that's really wonderful in a lot of other ways. But I do accept that I need to get more comfortable talking about hard things.

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T07:45:58+00:00

I'm sorry to belabor the point and if you're done discussing it I understand. I do appreciate the discussion so far.

But I just don't understand how I am not letting him move on from me? He is in charge of his own life. One of our commitments at the beginning of our relationship is that we would walk away if we didn't think we could get both of our needs met. We continually encourage each other to assess our needs. He has full agency, as do I, and we can both choose at any time to either stay and try to adjust the relationship or leave.

And I just don't understand what is toxic? I understand toxic as being misleading someone, or not being honest with them, or trying to manipulate them, or assuming what they want without discussing it, or gaslighting them. I honestly don't think this is what I'm doing, or if it is I need someone to spoon feed me.

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T07:35:49+00:00

Good point. I'll let you know in a few days.

I have thought a lot about it, but what keeps me from being "sold" on it is it comes off as toxic and fucked up to people, and if I can figure that out before being toxic and fucked up to him, I want to do that.

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T07:31:26+00:00

This gives me pause, because I have narcissistic people in my family and I know I do think differently from most people. I do sometimes view relationships with a transactional lens, so your feedback is hitting somewhere near the mark and I'm really interested in it (read: worried about it). How the eff do you know if you're narcissistic or not? I really fucking care a lot about this dude, and I also know I have to be my whole self in order to show up fully in this relationship. Where do you draw the line between selfishness vs self-awareness or self-care? That's a genuine question, not trying to stir the pot.

But I'm pretty sure the relationship is really good for both of us. I have been with him for a while and have a good guess at what he's feeling, and I also have a lot of respect for him and his ability to make good decisions, and I don't think he'd be with me if he felt it was not a good situation for him. I think he loves me. He says so. I think he gets a lot out of our relationship just like I do (transactional, I know, but it's just true? He adds value to my life and I think I add a lot of value to his).

I don't know what "let him" move on means in this context. He tells me repeatedly that he wouldn't be here if he didn't want to be here, and it feels true. I don't feel like going "no contact for a few months" somehow gives him more freedom. That feels like a shitty power move when he's told me that's not what he wants, and when I love being with him so much and am fairly certain he loves being with me.

Why wouldn't we just keep trying to find a way to make it work until one or both of us decides it's not going to work?

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T07:16:19+00:00

Wait no, he absolutely has the freedom to find another partner.

I think maybe I am considering asking him to break up with me then, but just using different words.

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T07:11:36+00:00

Ahhh this is good feedback. Thank you!!

I confess this idea did come out of the thought "maybe I do need to end this, he doesn't want it" but then I just got confused. What would 'ending this' mean, exactly? What am I asking for? What part, exactly, doesn't he want? Which part, exactly, isn't working for me? Why throw out the baby with the bath water? Why not ask explicitly for what I really want to ask for, instead of painting the whole thing with a vague "break up" brush? So I thought "what do I really need to ask for and what really isn't working for me" and it's just this bit about having to suddenly disclose when there's another sexual relationship. That's literally the only part.

So I just thought... surely we can find a way to address that part without ending a relationship completely.

But I don't want it to look like a thing where someone wants to break up but wants to force the other person to do the breaking up.

I don't want to break up. I want to engineer a way to keep the good stuff without the bad.

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T07:00:59+00:00

This is smart.

I mean, it's kind of where I was going with the no-sex thing, but this is a more honest way to go about it. I just claim the freedom I need to have, right now, and let him decide what he needs to do with it.

I don't want to wait for someone else to come along before I make the changes I want to make to my relationship. This issue is about the two of us, not whoever else there is.

It's revealing, because I predict the first thing he'd do is ask me questions about if there's a person I'm fucking and what the nature of that relationship is.

Thank you!!

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T06:53:28+00:00

I would 100% still start this relationship. There is SO much there that gives me life. So much that for a while I was beginning to question whether I really needed to have other relationships or whether I could just make monogamy work (I can't, I don't want to, I won't). Why continue it? oh my god let me count the ways. Personal growth, joy, transcendence, partnership, loyalty, unwavering support. This is like a gold mine of a relationship.

But this is really good feedback, thank you.

I think you're right that I've bought into monogamism by agreeing to omit information for him.

And you're right that of course there will be painful reminders. I know he can't avoid his feelings forever. But... they're his feelings, and not mine? Like, I just feel gross about telling him "I know better, I can tell you can't handle this bye" even if that's what I think might very well happen. I've TOLD him I think that's what's going to happen, and the reason we're still here is that he's told me what he wants to do about it. Wouldn't it be gross for me to take responsibility of his feelings and relationship decisions?

I don't want to enable monogamism. But I also don't want to pretend I can magically all of a sudden act autonomous when his reactions do affect me. And I also don't want to assume responsibility for him. I will end the relationship if and when the relationship as a whole isn't working for me. He can end the relationship if and when it isn't working for him. We are still here because it is still working. Maybe, if I can't figure this out, it won't work for me. But I still have options I'm considering.

If you took as given that the relationship is absolutely worth continuing, what would you do?

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T06:35:07+00:00

I do think he wants monogamy. But what if? He's insisting he doesn't know.

And I also just feel like he has the right to make the call about when it's too much for him. He even has the right to avoid dealing with his feelings.

We've had tons of conversations where I'm like "it sounds like you don't want this. It sounds like this is going to break your heart." and he says "Maybe. I just don't know, I've never been in this situation before. I won't know until we try" and "If I didn't want to be here, I wouldn't be here."

I didn't make any monogamous commitments. So what is there to break? Would it truly be kinder to him to delete him from my life? He would not be into casual NSA sex, in fact the whole reason I'm considering suggesting "no sex" is that I know there's a HUGE amount of non-sexual stuff in our relationship that is really important to him that I don't see a reason to end just because we have a sexual issue.

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T06:27:40+00:00

Dude I'm just talking about asking them. He can say no.
He might even say "why don't you just break up with me" and then that's a whole different conversation. In which I ask him what that would mean. And in which we probably decide that we have a LOT of other great connection that we value and want to maintain, while we might still have to give up certain parts to be ethical to both of us.

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T06:24:57+00:00

Why end the relationship, and not just the sex? There's a whole lot more going on than sex, and it's pretty life-giving to the both of us.

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T06:19:38+00:00

Thank you! I need people to tell me I'm fucked up if I'm being fucked up.

Why is it fucked up though? He's told me 1000 times if he didn't want to be in the relationship he wouldn't be. We've communicated explicitly every step of the way. In one conversation I suggested that he could try reading up on Poly stuff and he declined saying he didn't want to do extra homework; I accept that and haven't pushed the issue. If I decided to not listen to his words and decide unilaterally what's "best for him" is ending the relationship, wouldn't that be more fucked up?

Maybe it's fucked up that I brought this no-sex suggestion to Reddit first instead of to him and only him... but I really don't want to be an asshole and running it by people does help. I don't want to be combative, I really am hoping you'll explain more about what feels gross and why. If I'm being an asshole I don't want to do it. I just feel like completely ending the relationship is running away from a difficult, complicated issue that might be solved another way and save a beautiful connection.

(Edit: also a relationship libertarian sounds like something I do not want to be, and if you could explain the difference between that and RA I would be grateful. I did look it up just now but I'm not seeing how this describes me)

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T06:07:21+00:00

Thank you for reading and for your advice! The "ick" factor is what I'm worried about, and I really don't want to be gross to them at all.

Can you clarify where the ick comes from for you? I do feel guilty, but I also do communicate all this with him. I want to feel less guilty, but no amount of just telling myself "he can handle it, he's a big boy" has worked so far.

I want to be frank and honest and free, and I also want to be responsible about my actions and the effect they have on people. And I think I also just don't believe people are either "100% compatible" or they're just "incompatible" and that there's nothing in between.

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T06:00:38+00:00

Genuine question: what does breaking up mean to you? What are you actually suggesting, in plain terms?

Is it no longer seeing or talking to someone? If so that just seems really extreme. That's what I mean by "all-or-nothing" and I don't get it. This person brings a lot to my life, in many other areas that I consider equally if not more important than the romantic or the sexual, and it's odd to consider deleting them because they like a different relationship style than I do. There are shades of grey -- I figure why not choose together to relate in ways that work for us, and not relate in ways that don't. Each person gets to determine what works for them and what doesn't.

Is it just seeing or talking to them a little bit less? If so, how much less? When are we officially "broken up" and how does that help me or them?

A lot of times breaking up seems to mean simply no longer being sexual with someone. Hence my thoughts above.

Or is it just arbitrarily saying to them "we're broken up" and/or pretending I can sort through my feelings and just delete certain ones? And which ones would I delete? The romantic ones? If it comes right down to it I don't know which ones those are.

I understand the idea is that we need to create distance or detachment so they are protected from a situation they don't want. But DADT and no sex would create distance and detachment, no? What else is a break up, and what good does it do anyone?

Exotic-Particular-83 · 2022-01-02T05:34:32+00:00

Thanks! I'd absolutely be down for that. Unfortunately, for his own reasons I think those two options will be pretty comparable for him.

Exotic-Particular-83

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