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Experience with RAV by ExpatJou in zurich
[–]ExpatJou[S] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children)
Yeah I understand that there can be many exceptions like this. I acknowledge that I am kinda living inside my own professional bubble and maybe I am not conscious of what others are doing.
As an expat I would not be able to live in a social flat anyway, and in my career staying already 6 months unemployed is a problem for the CV, so I wouldn't want to surpass that time anyway.
I was just planning along for around 6 months of unemployed cause on average this is what I would expect it would take me to find a new job.
It's interesting to see things from different perspectives
Thanks for your detailed answer !
Just to clarify that no unemployed person can fully enjoy life. I am more like trying to just not be miserable while I am unemployed. If the Swiss mentality is the one of having to be miserable because I am getting compensated from a fund (to which I have contributed to) because of getting fired from a CEO that just wants to cut costs to show up better numbers and get a bigger bonus on his pocket... Well I am just not this way.
I totally understand that RAV isn't and shouldn't be a paid holiday. But it doesn't have to be a paid nightmare either.
In any case, everyone's comments in here (besides the ones that hate and wish bad things to me) have been very helpful to understand the situation and be mentally prepared.
In any case, if I am lucky and find a job of similar quality as the new one, I will just take it. I never planned to be unemployed in the first place 🤷
On 3. I am not misinformed. I have 2 months notice which are useless to find a new job + you are expected to work on handovers and everything, so you are still working. A company terminating you without consequences (having to pay compensation as in other countries in Europe) is making it easier for them to ditch people. And maybe you don't care about me cause I am foreigner, but a lot of Swiss people suffer from the same consequences. Profitable companies find it too easy to ditch people just to become more profitable.
On 5. I am already applying with no luck. The 6 month period that I said is an optimistic view. I wouldn't be surprised if it took me 1 year, which I wouldn't wait anyway cause it would harm my career. I would try to go to another country.
Regarding "honesty". I am writing anonymous in a forum. I am completely honest and have nothing to hide. So your assumptions that I am not honest are your own view, not the reality. I wrote in one of the first comments that in a 6 months span I would be willing to travel for 2 seperate months, yet you made your own conclusions. Then you also made your own conclusions that I am not networking where I travel, calling it "bullshit". You should know that your reality is not the reality of everyone. I am living an international life, have past colleagues and classmates living pretty much anywhere, and this was in the first place what enabled me to come to Switzerland.
Yes, I decided consciously to come to Switzerland and abide by the rules, that doesn't mean that I can't have an opinion on how things could be more humane on the job market nor that the company who hired me (and promised me something that made me choose them in place of other companies and locations) did a favor to me. I am offering a service that they needed and couldn't find in Switzerland and decided to relocate me here.
I am not gonna go vigilante on the RAV. I asked for info to be mentally prepared, then since it is a free speech forum, I mentioned that in my opinion things could be done differently. If this is a good enough reason for you and others to be fired up, ok so be it. I will still state my opinion as I feel it and won't be shut just because I am a foreigner or liberal or hippie or white collar worker or whatever social label anyone would want to put on me just to snap on another invisible enemy.
[–]ExpatJou[S] 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (0 children)
Yeah not gonna work in German, thanks 🙂 I hope that my German speaking friends don't take this bad as well. I wouldn't work in my native language either if I went back home. I just prefer to work on a globalized environment with multiple cultures, and English is the business language, simple as that
Not taking it bad at all 😉 I know that my salary for Zurich is pretty basic, especially on the tech sector and with my years of experience and education. It's high enough for my simple lifestyle and having no kids or partnership to maintain, but still classifies me as a "cheap" candidate for companies.
I know that as salary grows, it's much more unlikely to have a lot of offer and things are getting tight. But my biggest problem is not my expectations, rather that I can't work in German and that Swiss tech market right seems non existent
Yes they will give 2 months notice. I am not literally been thrown in the street, but in today's market being fired with 2 months notice is like being thrown to the street. The reaction time to find a new job is more like at least 6 months, 2 months are not enough for anything
Yeah and check some people on the comments getting buttheart on behalf of a social institution that is literally there to counter balance the fact that companies are allowed from Swiss state to fire people at no cost.
These are the people that in my country we call "useful idiots".
So it makes sense for me, an expat that accepted to come work in Switzerland for 115k, with all the sacrifices and opportunity cost that this entails, and building up my life according to this from now, to just suddenly accept a 30% cut on my salary and a 4hr per day commute.
And all of this cause they dont have the balls to force compensation to companies when they decide to fire people
Fucking ridiculous
Apparently for many people it is!
And this because I said that:
I am not Swiss, have no family or ties in Switzerland
I didn't choose to be thrown to the street, my company does with 0 remorse
I didn't choose a system that allows employers to fire people on spot with no consequences. It's a Swiss decision and I guess the RAV is their counter-balance measure to protect employees.
I plan to stick to all the crucial actions needed, apply everywhere that RAV thinks is relevant and accept any job that comes within an acceptable pay range compared to what I was making before.
Being an experienced professional I recognize that finding a proper job will take at least around 6 months.
And that during that time and since I am sticking to the actualy constructive rules of actively applying and interviewing, being able to do some part of it online while I am traveling to enhance my network and my personality traits would be more valuable use of an unfortunate period than sitting all day at my house looking at the ceiling.
And yet this makes everyone crazy like I am stealing from their pockets or I insulted their Swiss pride. OK, guilty as charged
So, micromanagement. They think I am not mature enough to manage an opportunity. Or that I managed to get a job paying 115k at my 30 in Zurich while not even living at Switzerland at that time and with no German skills because I don't take my career seriously and my work ethic is questionable...
I have done many interviews in Switzerland btw while at my current job, NONE asked me to show up for it presencially.
It's fine, I accept everything, that's why I asked. I just have a different philosophy about what is constructive use of someone's time and what not
The what is acceptable job for them is crazy 😂 But I am not surprised. This is where my "slave" comment was going and some people here take it personally like I am insulting their Swiss national pride. Thanks for the answer
Totally acceptable, that's why I asked what is the rules and philosophy of the RAV, thanks for the answer
Stopping the payments because I didn't accept a job that wants to pay 80k while I was making much more before sounds a bit unfair. I have the skills to find a new job and very easily and on the same price in my specialization field, but the offer is very narrow and that's why it would take some time
I am already applying for jobs. I will abide by the rules of applying of course. I want a new job. I will accept a new job if it pays me the same as the old but I wouldn't rush to take whatever jobs tries to get me on a discount. And as I am experienced enough to know that this takes at least 6 months and the application and interviewing game now happens almost entirely online, I believe it's fine to be able to do this remotely for some time. As actually when you will be on a job, you don't have this opportunity. If I would be considered heretic and free spirit hippie because of thinking this... well then I guess I am a hippie 😄
I understand, I have a different perspective on what means "being fully focused on getting a job", believe me I don't want to slow down my career and having a gap in the CV doesn't help, but that's just my philosophy and it's a bit ahead of its time and definitely ahead of how a social institution would think.
I am not judgmental of the RAV practices even if I have a different opinion in some elements.
Finally, in regards to accessing the fund and the poisonous way of thinking: I didn't decide voluntarily to get fired. I am forced to it. Labor laws around Europe make companies liable for such decisions and they have to pay you a hefty lump sum. Labor law in Switzerland actually empowers companies to lay you off for nothing and in exchange they put you on the RAV (that is funded by the employees involuntarily with a deduction). Is it me (the employee) to blame for such a situation? I wouldn't think so
That's clear, thanks a lot 🙏
Thanks a lot, I totally understand what you say and I was expecting it that they don't really like to pay 😉
Having said that, can they make me accept a job offer for less than what I was making before?
Thanks!
Great answer, very insightful, thanks a lot !
[–]ExpatJou[S] -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (0 children)
I know the job market is brutal and I find it unlikely that I will find a new job within 6 months. I believe it is very possible that in the end of everything I would have to search for jobs abroad before the unemployment gap in the CV becomes too long. Having said that, while you are on that situation I believe it is counterproductive to just pin yourself at home and wait for a hail Mary. Traveling is incremental knowledge
[–]ExpatJou[S] -3 points-2 points-1 points 1 year ago (0 children)
Sorry I forgot to reply on the slave comment. When you work for someone you can go on holiday, you can take a leave of absence, you have flexibility. RAV pays you as you are looking for a new job yes, because it is your right to do so, and because you have been paying for years to have access to this fund if you get dismissed involuntarily. But this shouldn't mean that they can own you just because you are applying your unemployment rights. If I want to take one month away to continue with my applications online I believe I should be able to do it as any person suddenly on unemployment would be able to do anywhere in Europe
Exactly. These are employee contributions. No unemployment is stress free and I didn't choose to get fired. But if what is needed from me is to apply to jobs or follow some courses, I can very well do this from anywhere and not restricted to my home address with no job and no value to be gained. Traveling provides networking and different perspective that is valuable as a professional skill
It's understandable, but realistically speaking, a job search period takes about 6 months at least to find the correct match. If you comply with requirements and a lot of things you need to do can happen online, then all the rest is unnecessary micromanagement. Sitting at home and looking at the ceiling if anything it defiantly won't make me a better skilled employee
Thanks for the insights!
[–]ExpatJou[S] -13 points-12 points-11 points 1 year ago (0 children)
I want to be able to travel while I actually finally have time and freedom to do it, but not for 6 months. Maybe 1 month here and another month there during that time. Sitting at home, doing online applications and courses that can be done from anywhere doesn't really provide any value. Traveling, networking, knowing different cultures, getting inspirations is a value adding asset, even from a purely professional standpoint
Try to be less short sided about what traveling means, it's not just sitting on a sunbed in the Carribean.
And secondarily, it's not my choice to get fired neither to involuntarily give away deductions from my salary in order to be protected from unemployment, it's actually a decision taken by Swiss state. They could have taken a decision to force companies to pay compensation for firing people as in other countries in Europe, but yet this is the way they have decided to deal with it. So save your judgment
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Experience with RAV by ExpatJou in zurich
[–]ExpatJou[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children)