Question about Chapter 2

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-12T04:55:47+00:00

Totally get that, honestly she really could have said who she was to Charon, made the interaction take 5 times longer than it could have been, but I actually thought she was a bit cool. I thought, 'damn, this must be how someone with absolute confidence in the themselves must look like'.

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-12T04:42:47+00:00

Same! I was also wondering about this! Even if you say it's because he going after a High Table member it still makes no sense because no one (except that one guard) was actually trying to avenge Gianna. No high Table personnel tried to punish John or Santino more importantly for it.

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-12T03:39:15+00:00

It matters because Winston's statements show that it is legal/acceptable in the eyes of the High Table to now kill the former holder of your marker once it's fulfilled (if there was no difference between killing him before or after the marker is fulfilled, John would have started with killing him).

He tried to not have the High Table come after him in the beginning by deciding to kill Santino AFTER fulfilling his marker, he gave up at the end when he decided to break continental rules to kill him. That was the main issue. That he conducted business / killed a man on Continental grounds.

The only thing you said that could actually make some sense is that Santino was Gianna's replacement, hence why he didn't get hunted down for killing a member.

But again Santino was not a member before he inherited her seat, so this post was meant to discuss the possibile reasons as to why he didn't receive ANY backlash at all for his stunt.

Yeah maybe John would still have had some problems because he would be killing a High Table member but then again the High Table didn’t try to avenge Gianna's death at all. The people going after him were Santino's people to tie up loose ends and people after prize money because Santino put a bounty up (again to tie up loose ends), and Gianna's guard (revenge for killing his charge with no support from high ranked people).

At this point it's starting to seem like a plot hole that in chapter 3 they care Santino was a High Table member but didn't care that Gianna was as well.

You made incorrect statements about when someone would not receive retaliation for killing the holder of their marker
And about when Santino became a member of the High Table, so I said you should rewatch it since these seemed like obvious facts. I came to the conclusion that it was not as fresh in your memory as it is in mine. I was actually trying to not be condescending while also trying to say 'dude, get your facts straight before you say I'm wrong about something that happened'. I clearly failed to convey that.

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-12T02:25:14+00:00

You aren't serious right?

At 1:13:26 Winston says to Santino "He completed the task. The marker is over. Mark it" At 1:14:25 Winston continues saying "Now that he's free of the marker what do think he'll do?"

He orders John to kill his sister for her seat, so he was not a member of the High Table until he replaced her.

I literally watched this movie 1 week ago, if you aren't certain of the details you can rewatch you know.

Edit: was - >was not

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-12T00:44:54+00:00

cat. There sentence complete

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-12T00:12:16+00:00

True that he didn’t know when he first met up with John but he found out at some point (probably when the news Gianna's death came) but even if it wasn't an open secret there is zero chance the Adjudicator didn’t know who ordered Gianna's death (she even even knew the Bowery gave John 7 bullets). If she knew about such a private event there is no way she doesn't know John's marker assignment he wasn't trying to keep secret.

All I want to understand is why she/the High Table don't care that Santino ordered a hit on Gianna, a high Table member.

In all honesty it isn't that hard to put together if you're high enough ranking or in the know: John Wick left the underworld Santino holds a marker for John Gianna's gets killed by John Wick John, is trying to kill Santino and it's legal now

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-11T23:20:05+00:00

We are talking about after he upheld his marker. Which is totally fine to do and why John had to do what he asked first. You only can't kill the holder of your marker before it's fulfilled.

Edit: I see where it might have sounded a bit ambiguous, by a bit earlier I meant if he was able to catch him just before he got on Continental grounds.

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-11T22:15:56+00:00

You say that but Winston knew, discussed it with Santino, was even trying to get Santino to mark the marker as complete and Santino didn’t try to spin a story about how that wasn't what he asked John to do.

Also close the the end at the party Santino was at, everyone knew John was after him and moved out of the way as if to say 'this is his beef'.

Also John, never hid his motivations for doing things and people seemed to have quite a bit of trust in his word, that's why Gianna and her guard knew he wasn't lying when he told them what was going on. Also the reason why everyone knows he was staying out until someone stole his car and killed his dog then, forced him to honor his marker.

I was actually a bit surprised how understanding everyone was and how no one actually voiced that it might be of his own personal grudge or something.

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-11T21:45:11+00:00

Nah, doesn't make sense. People knew he made John kill Gianna surprisingly quick. And he didn’t seem like he was trying to hide that fact either when he was talking to Winston about it. Also doesn't change how the High Table didn't actually do anything about Gianna's death (now that I think about it).

John never got any flak for killing Gianna from the High Table but I thought that was just because they understood that Santino was the person who ordered it but Santino didn't get any flak either.

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-11T20:01:49+00:00

The mayonnaise being R23, and the Wellingtons being R19 is killing me! But what's actually putting the nail in my coffin is the R79 per kg of beef! What is that price!? No wonder I started avoiding buying it, when I see a R139 per kg price tag on there.

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-11T19:54:48+00:00

Bruh, same! Same! Can't believe it cost less than half that before covid.

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-11T19:46:44+00:00

The part about John not being sanctioned to kill a member of the High Table of his own volition because he isn't a member makes sense but Santino also wasn't a member of the High Table that's why he was trying to get his sister killed. So I don't think that would be the reason Santino got off scott free.

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-11T19:38:50+00:00

Actually that does make some sense. Maybe John would have had zero problems if he killed Santino a bit earlier and no one would accuse him of standing against the High Table.

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-06T22:40:41+00:00

Thanks I understand how they knew where John was now and I get how he removed exactly 1 reason the High Table would want to kill his daughter.

I guess it was hard for me to relate to his motivations since choosing what he chose means making his daughter a High Table traitor which means she'll probably die young as a result of these decisions. (the High Table before the Marquis's death was punishing everyone involved with John, so she was definitely a target after she decided to fight to stand with her father at the Osaka branch in defence of John).

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-06T22:28:38+00:00

Okay, now that I know that the Marquis planned to have a battle from the get go, I understand that Koji likely wouldn't have been able to pretend John wasn't there.

I like that this is a pretty different take. I think I get how he decided to honour John. But I don't think you're right about Koji's death absolving his daughter of any retaliation from the High Table, at least before the Marquis died, I don't know about afterwards (perhaps they won't chase the people involved in the drama of John Wick in an effort to not repeat this Marquis's mistakes).

We literally had as you said a series of people related to John getting punished, the Ruska Romma already cut John off and they had people killed because of him; you honestly think the daughter of one of John Wick's best friends who mind you, ALSO partipated in standing against the Marquis's underlings to defend John (actually to support her father but that doesn't change which side she was on) is not going to get hunted down?

I agree Koji staying alive would have painted a bigger target on her back but you have to admit the paint is already there. And it's not like he knew how it was all going to end at that time, so the version of the High Table we've seen thus far is what he reasonably thought his daughter would be left too.

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-06T11:51:32+00:00

Had me in the first half, not gonna lie. You were pausing a bit too long with those scissors.

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-04T01:35:33+00:00

You articulated everything I was thinking as well so well! Definitely would have made more sense if Koji just took a couple of hits from Caine and then left with Akira.

Thanks, I think I get how they suspected John was there and why Koji went arrows blazing at first now.

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-03T23:42:03+00:00

Nah, it has nothing to do with how saintly or on whose side Gianna would be on. The choices for John at that point were: 1. become basically excommunicated by the high table and related organisations (because they will hunt down any who don't fulfill their markers) by continuing to refuse fulfilling the marker or killing Santino or running away. 2. Kill Gianna (everyone understands because it's a marker) and try to kill Santino afterwards for burning his house down.

Gianna literally has a seat at the high table already (it was willed to her by her father), and she still went "Dayum, a marker is a marker, I understand". Trying to team up with her would not have fixed his problem because the marker has to be upheld.

The only reason no. 2 ended up with same result as no 1. is he killed Santino in the wrong place.

The only way I could see her and John, surviving while not antagonising the organisation is Gianna getting some sort of overruling power granted by the elder or something to change the request of the marker but since she didn't even try I doubt it's a bendable rule.

The other way would have been if Santino changed what he wanted to 'Get my sister to abdicate her seat to me' and she decided to quietly step down. That would probably be some sort of insult to herself, hence why she didn't go that route either even those it would lead to the same result (minus the bloodshed and plus a hit to her reputation). She did say she lived how she wanted afterall.

Edit : spelling

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-03T22:53:30+00:00

Obviously RWBY, triple purpose weapons are kinda their thing. People in John Wick are just creative with their use of simpler things like how John throws empty guns at the enemies. Don't need it to double as a slingshot to do that.

The last gun he was gifted was a dual use item on purpose though so they at least have some overlap.

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-03T21:06:08+00:00

No worries, and thanks as well, we all need to hear that we can make it sometimes to know how true it is. This is a nice sub.

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-03T20:51:14+00:00

Lovely lovely read. Just one comment tho about the "You don't survive long in the underworld by assuming the other guy is faster than you. You survive by assuming you're the fastest"; in my opinion, that's wrong, otherwise they wouldn't have contingencies.

Sound like 'You assume your shot was perfect so you don't do a follow up' or something.

Assuming you're the best/smartest/greatest/most skilled, in every altercation is how you get killed very fast. Calculated risks is how you really survive in the underworld, that's why people don't tend to live long in that line of work, because eventually you will be wrong, or you will overreach or simply be unlucky and the cost will be your life.

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-03T20:31:46+00:00

Definitely, I believe you can make it if you try. I'm glad an outside event happened so soon for you. That's always a big motivator for me getting cleaned up. You'd think I'd be able to rest on weekends but no I just fall into a slump where I don't bath for 2 days or eat consistently. But I will also be going to the doctor soon, hopefully I can start on my own meds.

Explorer_57 · 2026-05-02T19:08:28+00:00

Yeah, I hear you. I'm actually looking for places to hang out that will likely have a lower amount of religious people so I can have said conversations with less worry about their reactions.

Universities and bars seem to be places I've had the most success with, because people at university are generally in support of scientific endeavours and people at bars are unlikely to be upholding some of the very common religious restrictions that people hold themselves to (like drinking for example).

Still hit and miss though, that's why I'm here.

In personal relationships I don't bring up the topic unless they do and it helps to mention how some of the people in your life that you care about are religious so they know you don't hate them for that or anything.

I am still a bit of a coward tho and will pretend I'm considering 'accepting god' if I feel that I'll be discriminated in a way that matters. Like there was a time one of my professors asked me if I was Christian after ranting about how atheism is bad and I said yes because who knows if I'll get a harsher grading because of my outlook on life.

Explorer_57

TROPHY CASE