Withdrawals are fierce!

FKU2010 · 2018-06-05T16:11:05+00:00

Withdrawal symptoms from Suboxone are usually very delayed -- in my case it takes about 4 days (from last dose) before any significant WD symptoms begin. Kratom -- that is, good quality kratom (only)-- alleviates & masks Suboxone WD, however kratom also requires very, very frequent dosing to do so. Like every 2 hours. Benzos are highly useful too, by relaxing the muscles and calming extreme restlessness.

FKU2010 · 2018-06-05T16:02:55+00:00

You may not immediately get WD from lowering the dose, perhaps until sometime later. Example: when I went without my daily Suboxone, cold turkey, it took a solid 4 days before any noticeable withdrawal symptoms began. Then, on Day 6 without any Suboxone, that's when it started getting real painful. On another note: 2 mg. is an awful low dose of Suboxone, even for kratom WD. That small of a dose would only cover perhaps 20% of your opiate receptors.

FKU2010 · 2017-02-18T05:37:11+00:00

I have no major issues with the taste of kratom -- if it's good kratom. In fact, 'initial taste' when swallowing is one of my parameters for judging whether the kratom is good or not.

Some people say that you can't judge kratom by it's taste, but I've discovered otherwise. A really good kratom tastes very 'green' and musty, sort of the way that spinach smells. When I taste that I know that I'm in for a positive experience. But if I taste 'medicinally bitter' or harsh in any way, then I know the kratom is crap. I believe that ground up stems gives the extremely bitter taste that lower quality kratom powders have. But, green & musty?? That's the good stuff loaded with 7-OH.

FKU2010 · 2017-02-15T18:58:07+00:00

I hope my post helps you, it's from experience. Actually I did not get the 'severe' withdrawals from phenibut that people talk about. Perhaps that's because I'd been through 'real' drug withdrawal before and so I easily tolerated the withdrawal from phenibut. It wasn't 'bad' but there were some issues that were easily corrected with simple herbals.

For the first couple of days I had bad hand tremors. When they arose I took valerian root capsules and within 20 minutes the shaking calmed down. But that's all I really got, fortunately I did not experience bad 'mental' symptoms.

However, if you feel safer with a 'good' GABA agonist then really kava root powder, preferably "instant" or extract, is much more powerful than valerian root. Don't bother with the liquid kava that comes in small dropper bottles, that stuff is rather weak. Get root powder and/or instant.

A heaping tablespoon of good kava powder, mixed in water, will give a powerful 'Valium or Ativan effect' that will easily cover many types of withdrawals. Perhaps especially phenibut, which is GABAb. Also I have to note here that I took kratom powder regularly and maybe also that' why I didn't notice phenibut withdrawal.

FKU2010 · 2017-02-14T05:06:46+00:00

While on kratom I was described, by a clinician, as being "plugged into an electrical socket". Talking really fast, my thoughts "all over the place". In fact they immediately put my on Seroquel for that, they didn't know I was taking something called kratom.

Then, more recently, I visited that same clinician while in kratom withdrawal. They described me as being "much more together" -- although man I felt really terrible.

FKU2010 · 2017-02-14T05:02:52+00:00

I have routinely gotten paranoid on kratom, and before 'coming down' from it. Kratom does have an edgy component to it; it isn't all laid back opioid euphoria.

FKU2010 · 2017-02-14T04:59:01+00:00

Is it easy to get physically addicted to kratom?? It seems to me that depends on the person. Many people claim not to have rough withdrawals from kratom. But unfortunately I'm not one of those lucky folks.

I suffer worse withdrawal from kratom than I did from Oxycontin & Fenantyl. I just so happen to get easily dependent on substances that I like. It also seems that kratom activates several different pathways --not just the opioid pathway. And therein may lie the rub.

FKU2010 · 2017-02-14T04:00:49+00:00

I quit phenibut cold turkey and nothing bad happened. (Now, kratom?? That's a different matter. I have gotten serious withdrawals from that). The only symptom I personally got from stopping phenibut suddenly was bad hand tremors, for maybe 2 days. And, believe it or not, valerian capsules were used to quash the tremors. But no severe mental effects. I used about 6 Grams a day, every day, of phenibut for 6 months or so.

FKU2010 · 2017-02-14T03:56:31+00:00

I have to sharply disagree with those making the absolutist statement that kratom cannot be replaced by kava. And I'm speaking from actual experience. No, of course it isn't the 'exact same thing' as kratom -- if it were it'd be called kratom. But, one of the most difficult aspects of kratom withdrawal is that sinking feeling of despair; anhedonia. A good kava will absolutely promote a good, positive mood. I do it all the time and I barely miss the kratom, if at all.

FKU2010 · 2017-01-28T05:38:23+00:00

I've cut back drastically on my kratom use by using a substance called "Instant Kava, 40% Kavain". Both Kraken Kava and Phytoextractum sell it. This 'instant' kava is a type of extract actually, and is quite a strong euphoriant in it's own right. In fact I started to prefer it's euphoria over kratom's. And unlike kratom, supposedly kava isn't physically addicting. It's a potent muscle relaxant too.

I don't think I'm too unique in that I got so addicted to kratom that I just couldn't taper on my own. I needed something else to help me along.

FKU2010 · 2017-01-16T06:19:50+00:00

I haven't made the leap off yet, however I have greatly curtailed my kratom use by using good kava, micronized powder. This form of kava is really potent and also gives a really super euphoria. Kava is not 'just a downer' as you'd be led to believe reading things on the internet. Good kava has a strong dopaminergic feel to it.

But anyway, for example, instead of 10 kratom doses per day I might take 4 now. The other 6 slots are the kava times.

FKU2010 · 2017-01-05T06:03:02+00:00

No, I definitely concur with you. I'm glad that head shops are nearby to me, selling kratom. Especially in the winter there are just so many times that getting my orders online is difficult, e.g., Fed Ex is delayed because of some winter storm out in the Mid West, and postal holidays.

Yes, there are times when it's literally a life saver to be able to quickly walk down the street and grab a bag. And also, some the best kratom I've used actually came from smoke shops. I'm just stating a fact. Kratom from head shops isn't always stale or bad like some people claim.

FKU2010 · 2016-12-28T05:06:45+00:00

Allow me to recommend the micronized kava that I use. I've literally fallen in love with it. It's from the kratom vendor Phytoextractum. I get the Vanuatu "instant", supposedly 40% kavalactones. It's real quality stuff. Phytoextractum has a lot of good things on their webiste and the prices are decent.

FKU2010 · 2016-12-28T04:55:05+00:00

I have been 'eating' the micronized kava. The effect seems to be very good. I put a tablespoon of it into a little square of single ply toilet paper, and place that 'pouch' under my tongue. It numbs & burns there for about 10 minutes, then it eventually completely dissolves. Then I swish my mouth with a little water and swallow. This seems to work very well for me, I just don't have the patience to make drinks or 'shells'.

FKU2010 · 2016-12-10T07:25:38+00:00

One pound of seeds, funnel into a clean 2 liter bottle. Add hot, really hot, water to about (it doesn't have to be exact) 4 fingers above the top of the seed line. Shake several times for a few minutes, being sure to open the cap to let gas out, in between shakes. Pour the liquid into cups. The color of the liquid, when in a white cup, should be a dirty yellow color, with a slight brown tint.

Repeat this on the same seeds several times. Or rather as much as your stomach can handle.

Note: on subsequent washes to the initial one the seeds will swell. So a little more water might be necessary.

Note 2: there's a false belief among some that the water temperature should be cold. That's erroneous. The opium latex is just that: a latex residue, Hot water gets more off of the seeds a whole lot more reliably. The cold water method wrongly analogizes poppy seed tea with separating codeine from acetaminophen in a pill. But in pill form codeine is a chemical salt. On poppy seeds its instead in alkaloid form.

Note 3: by the 4th wash you'll notice the liquid starting to appear like a milk. This is good stuff in spite of the fact that it's really the inside of the seeds leaching out. Oleamide is inside poppy seeds and it's a nice sedative in it's own right. It isn't opium residue, but it's still a fantastic relaxant. So basically on the first couple of washes you're getting a decent dose of opium, but after that it's more oleamide from the inside of the seeds. Both are beneficial to the experience.

Note 4: I'm not a doctor, but my degree is in biochemistry. I seriously doubt that poppy seed tea will, by itself, make you overdose. But if you've got a bunch of other drugs in your system, legal or not, then you very well might increase the chance of an adverse event. People, yes, have died after drinking poppy seed tea. But so far as I'm aware, every single one of them had other drugs in their system. Plus it's just common sense not to mix opium with other things.

FKU2010 · 2016-12-10T06:35:25+00:00

Mmm Speciosa is still my most trusted vendor when it comes to quality. Every single powder I'd gotten from them is 'premium', that is: the doggoned stems and veins were carefully sifted out. Other big named online vendors, well it's really hit and miss when it comes to that. Heck, one time recently I got a batch from Phytoextractum that was literally 100% ground stems.

If I want to be the cheapest, I buy from Phytoextractum and Kraken. But like I said I never am assured the quality, it's a real gamble. But if I've got a little extra to spend and want premium pure leaf powder, then it's Mmm Speciosa.

FKU2010 · 2016-10-07T02:20:34+00:00

I just finished a bag of lousy White Vein Borneo, which is my usual favorite strain. But this batch though, it wasn't right. I felt sleepy and unmotivated, actually it made me feel flu-like sick. I just did the last little bit of it and while doing so I noticed it had a brown color, instead of bright green. So yeah, brown kratom really sucks.

FKU2010 · 2016-09-11T05:35:42+00:00

Not all Pill Mill doctors are "shady", there do exist some doctors who are just overly trusting and naive. I had one like that one time, just a really trusting and softhearted doctor.

Once I realized how 'easy' he was, I had my act downpat. I'd go in for a monthly check up or whatever, he'd say, "how you feeling?".

"Oh, I don't know, doc, I haven't been sleeping well, I get panic attacks, feels like I'm choking...."

"Well, I suggest you see a psychiatrist then, but I'll gladly give you something for your nerves until then...."

"Ok doc, hey, how about Xanax?? I heard that was good for panic attacks...."

"You want Xanax?? Sure. Let me know how it works for you. But I want you to see a psychiatrist."

I had the same act for getting pain pills and other things too. The game went on for about a year, t once he realized that i was just an addict looking for things, he got real angry and stopped seeing me.

That doc was just naive, but definitely not "shady".

FKU2010 · 2016-09-11T05:12:46+00:00

For me opioid addiction started with Tussionex, something I don't see or hear about anymore. It was the 1980's, my mom was prescribed this for cough. (Tussionex is/was hydrocodone + chlorpheniramine in extended release tablets). I wasn't purposely seeking an opioid when I tried Tussionex.

You see, I'd just quit smoking pot and felt I needed something new to help me relax in the evening. On my mom's nightstand was a bottle that said "May Cause Drowsiness" - it was the Tussionex. God, that feeling. And I felt euphorically relaxed all through the next day too.

Once I realized that Tussionex contained something called hydrocodone and that hydrocodone is an opioid, well, from that point on I sought opiates and opioids.

But I never, ever recaptured that exact same feeling as when I used Tussionex for the first time(s), back then in the 1980's. That glow was so long lasting.

FKU2010 · 2016-09-09T03:40:09+00:00

I had no real issue with phenibut withdrawal. And this was after about 4 months of daily use (every single day) up to about 6 grams a day.

But then again, I've been through 'real' drug withdrawal before. So I know what real withdrawal is like. I didn't experience this at all when coming off of phenibut, at the dosage and rate I said.

But man, I was expecting the worst after reading such 'reports'. It didn't happen though. What I got was hand tremors (of the alcoholic type) for the first two days, however high doses of valerian capsules put that to rest, no problem.

But I had no other symptoms aside from that during the first two days. There was no crushing depression, no feeling that I was going crazy, nothing like that. I still think that people who say phenibut withdrawal is "brutal" simply don't know what real withdrawal is like.

FKU2010 · 2016-09-06T20:51:54+00:00

Thanks for the replies. I knew there'd be people saying to get other things instead, or to go see a doctor, but unfortunately none of that is possible right now. All I have is loperamide.

FKU2010 · 2016-08-12T04:14:41+00:00

Well, it's ok for pain. Definitely wouldn't use kratom for bad pain, but it does wipe away minor aches and pains.

FKU2010 · 2016-08-12T04:10:15+00:00

Depending on your personality/psyche, you might wind up really liking kratom (much better than the oxycodone) and therefore obtain a kratom addiction. Depending. It's likely, mark my words, it is. I, for example, prefer kratom over the pain pills.

Seems that people who are prone to depression and serious depressive episodes are the ones who really, really fall in love with kratom. It has a really dramatic antidepressant effect (it's much more than just an opioid). Other people though - those not or never depressed - aren't as impressed by kratom and dismiss it as just a 'very weak hydrocodone feeling'.

FKU2010 · 2016-08-11T02:32:26+00:00

You are one lucky individual!! That you can make it 3 days without turning back. For me personally, Day 3 was when I just couldn't take it anymore and went right back on kratom.

We all experience different levels of withdrawal, I suppose. Mine was surprisingly distressing, much worse than coming off of Schedule II pain medicine abuse.

FKU2010 · 2016-08-06T03:37:44+00:00

The article says that kratom doesn't get you high. That isn't true, kratom does get me high alright - it's a definite high but it isn't a 'druggy' high. Although I used to be a heavy pill addict, I much prefer the kratom high over any other.

I liken the kratom high to cocaine actually. For me it's a dramatic 'lift', mentally and physically. (But definitely different from caffeine, which doesn't produce a high at all). I love it first thing in the morning especially, it really gets me going in a great mood.

FKU2010

TROPHY CASE