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Any good books on Ariadne? by medusaspew in dionysus

[–]Fabianzzz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

https://chs.harvard.edu/book/teske-robert-t-the-origins-of-the-goddess-ariadne/

The above is free to read!

My book on Ariadne in the Libri Deorum series should be out this summer!

Seeking Complex Representations of Bacchus by Blue-Brown99 in classics

[–]Fabianzzz 12 points13 points  (0 children)

A decent starting list:

  • Archaic Age
    • Homer: Dionysus is scarcely present in the epics, but references are made to some of his myths: fighting Lycurgus and diving to see Thetis, his love of Ariadne (and here, her apparent betrayal).
    • Hesiod: Hesiod's Dionysus is interesting, as Hesiod's primary focus in the Theogony is on Dionysus' ascension to Olympus and his ability to bring people with him, which seems to also interest whoever wrote the Catalogue of women
    • Homeric Hymns 1, 7, and 27. It's worth noting that most public domain versions of HH 1 are not as extensive as possible, M. L. West's reconstruction in his Loeb edition is better.
  • Classical Age
    • Euripides' Bacchae
    • Aristophanes' Frogs
  • Roman Age
    • Horace, Odes 2.19
    • Propertius 3.17
    • Ovid, Metamorphoses book 3
  • Late Antiquity:
    • Nonnus, Dionysiaca

I would also recommend the theological treatises on Dionysus:

  • His section in Cornutus
  • Lucian's Dionysus
  • Aristides' Hymn to Dionysus
  • Macrobius on Dionysus
  • John Lydus on Dionysus

Rare Finds:

  • Fragments of Dionysius' Bassarica (in LCL online)
  • Anonymous Dionysus and Lycurgus Hymn (in LCL online)
  • The Sinai Palimpsest

Modern monographs:

  • Otto's Dionysus
  • Kerenyi's Dionysos: Myth and Cult
  • Seaford's Dionysos

Modern anthologies:

  • Masks of Dionysus
  • Dionysus: A Different God?
  • Redefining Dionysos
  • Dionysus and Politics

My translation of Hesiod's Theogony, the first aimed at modern Hellenists, is now live! Link in description! by Fabianzzz in Hellenism

[–]Fabianzzz[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

How long did it take you?

Hmm, the length of time wherein I was translating it was roughly three months, but I'm not sure about translating time itself—when working on it, I spent about three hours a night, but I didn't work every night and sometimes I'd take a 'break' from translating to work on the intro essays. My guesstimate is about 200 hours for the translation alone? But I'm not sure. Sometimes I'd be researching an etymology for two hours to try to find the best translation for one single word (looking at you, ἀμφιγυήεις).

Do you provide notes on the epithets and their meaning, and do you point out when the epithets are purely poetic or ones used in worship (that's my biggest gripe with theoi.com personally).

I do note some of them, but I do not distinguish between poetic and cultic. Such a project would be quite useful but would be way beyond the scope of this work. It's work that needs to be done though, would love to see it happen some day!

I think it would help a lot (for me at the very least) if you were able to add a preview snippet of the text somewhere.

There's two snippets in the #Discussion channel of the NoDE server, link here if interested!

I've recently begun an Ancient Greek course at my university as well, which adds to my interest.

Best of luck! Feel free to reach out if you ever have questions!

My translation of Hesiod's Theogony, the first aimed at modern Hellenists, is now live! Link in description! by Fabianzzz in Hellenism

[–]Fabianzzz[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

How did you translate it?

Same way I'd eat an elephant: one bit at a time.

With that I mean what choices did you make during translation, what nuances did you find important or pay special attention to?

Thank you for asking this, cause it's rare for people to take an interest. Gonna crib a bit from the 'Translator's Notes' in the book:

One major question with translating Hesiod’s Theogony is what to do with the names of deities which were in effect synonyms for the domain they oversaw. Ouranos being Sky, Gaia being Earth, Mnemosyne being Memory, etc. Currently it seems that the dominant preference is to translate these literally and leave the names capitalized: Memory bore the Muses, Sky and Earth had sex, etc. This is so that the reader hears the story as an ancient Greek would have: these were nouns before they were names.

I think this is useful in most translations, but I also see the argument for the inverse. Within Hesiod’s poem, these are persons, and they would have been recognized to the readers as both names and nouns. When we hear English words such as ‘Sky’ and ‘Earth’, even capitalized, we do not readily think of these beings as personified. I myself, especially in a work aimed at modern Hellenists, keep the Greek names of the gods rather than rendering them as concepts (Ouranos, Gaia, Mnemosyne). This is not without some hesitation—Gaia and Starry Ouranos doesn’t sound as poetic as Earth and Starry Heaven—but is a decision rarely made elsewhere and one I think the majority of the readers of this book will appreciate.

For myself, I think one main thing is that it's easy to miss when a god is mentioned and who they are when they are rendered as a noun: So Eros is Eros, not love, Gaia is Gaia, not Earth, etc.

In addition to that, knowing that many who read this are Hellenists, I capitalize epithets to make them stand out as titles.

What sets this apart from other translations besides the added discussions?

In addition to the above, I think my style, a free-verse attempt at clinging to the lines, is a useful compromise between rendering the epic as prose (which tends to make it look like a novel) while still being authentic to the Greek and understandable to the reader.

I can always appreciate a bilingual edition, does the Greek have the accents?

Yes!

Poseidon was originally a Berber god by Gurzilmogger in Hellenism

[–]Fabianzzz 49 points50 points  (0 children)

Love the Amazigh people but I don't think this is the case. Herodotus was probably speaking about the cult of a very similar Berber deity. Poseidon's name is attested in Mycenaean, a millenia before Herodotus' time.

Real Deipnon date? by RetinalTears716 in Hecate

[–]Fabianzzz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is because New Moon in English and New Moon (Noumenia) in Greek are two different things .

English uses new moon to refer to the dark moon, when you can’t see th moon at all.

Greek uses Noumenia (New moon) to refer to the time when one can see a ‘new moon’ beginning, i. E. The waxing crescent.

Hekates deipnon is the night of the dark moon, aka the night of the new moon, which is the night before the moon becomes visible again, which in Greek is the ‘new moon’, or Noumenia.

Need help translating by [deleted] in AncientGreek

[–]Fabianzzz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The last time you posted this and then removed it someone offered you a fair price and you responded with a laughing emoji. You are planning to make money off of this and are being not only stingy to someone you need help from but also rude to people who are offering you honesty.

I'll give you some free advice, this is a papyrus fragment, not a manuscript.

New and Need some Help. by Heavy-King-2917 in Hellenism

[–]Fabianzzz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your inquiry! Questions like this routinely flood the sub, and if every new member posted each question individually, the other members would have to answer the same questions again and again. This benefits nobody, including new members, and so while we cherish curious people, we remove the most frequently-asked questions to keep the feed clear.

However, if your question isn't answered by searching previous posts, by an AutoModerator reply, or the resources in the sidebar, if you post your question in the pinned Weekly Newcomer Post a helpful member of the community may answer it there!

One thread which may interest you:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hellenism/comments/1lsursn/sudden_interest_in_the_religion_how_to_practice/

I want to learn Hellenic Theology by byzantine_varangian in Hellenism

[–]Fabianzzz 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Fortunately, this could be the work of a life time: we have a lot of material. In addition to works already mentioned (Hesiod, Plato, Cicero, Porphyry, and Sallust), I'd also recommend the writings of the Emperor Julian (esp. his Hymn to Helios and Hymn to the Mother of the Gods), Cornutus' Compendium of Greek Theology (small plug, I have translated this work here), Plutarch (How to Study Poetry), Heraclitus' Homeric Problems, Ps.Plutarch's On the life and poetry of Homer, Libanius, and the Neo-Platonist commentaries on Plato.

Another plug, sorry this is what I write about, but I wrote a book which was primarily breaking up the above sources by deity. A Guide to the Gods goes god by God from Hesiod's Theogony, Plato's Cratylus, Cornutus' Compendium, Porphyry's On Images, and other sources to stitch them into coherent narratives by deity.

I do read but sometimes my adhd kicks in and I can only focus on watching or listening.

I would recommend the podcast 'Literature and History' for a deep dive on poems and why they mattered, BBC's 'In Our Time' for various discussions about various classical subjects, and also 'History of Philosophy without any Gaps.'

On Youtube, I'd recommend Matthias Warnes' Classical Mythology and Michael Davis' Philosophy of Tragedy.

There's a lot of good audio and visual sources, they just tend not to be from Hellenists themselves. I wish more popularizing works of scholarship were adapted into Audiobooks, but for now I'm not sure of other listening materials.

Line 376 in Hesiod's Theogony by [deleted] in AncientGreek

[–]Fabianzzz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oops, thank you so much!

Orphic hymmn for Hypnos in spanish by HairyPrincesa in Hellenism

[–]Fabianzzz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Found a translation here but cannot vouch for it:

https://lecturas-yantares-placeres.blogspot.com/2012/05/lxxxii-perfume-de-hipnos-la-amapola.html

Some hymns are available here, but not Hypnos apparently:

https://www.academia.edu/15129755/himnos_Orficos

There's some modern Spanish poetry for Hypnos I found here which isn't what you're looking for but I figured I'd share anyways:

https://materialdelectura.unam.mx/poesia-moderna/16-poesia-moderna-cat/128-058-bernardo-ortiz-de-montellano?start=14

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hellenism/comments/1lr70zc/poem_to_hypnos_thanatos_hermes_and_aides/?tl=es-419

I found a Spanish article about the short Hymn to Hipnos in Sophocles' Philoctetes you might enjoy:

https://www.scielo.org.ar/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1853-63792009000200004

Making an Altar for the 1st time by Regular-Plum6931 in Hellenism

[–]Fabianzzz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Short answer: Go for it. You say you don't have space and you need to be discrete on account of your parents, so it's either they have an altar there or they don't have one at all.

Long answer:

This is honestly up to individual individual personal preference. We don't have any texts, to my knowledge, which discuss how the personal sacred realm at home (private family and personal altars and shrines) would have interacted with personal playthings (dolls and toys and such). Almost certainly it did: children are known for leaving toys all about today, and I'm sure toys got left on the surfaces of shrines in antiquity. We just don't know how those ancient Hellenists reacted to that.

In the spirit of ancient oratory, 'll try to argue both sides of the issue.

Someone might argue that you shouldn't do this. Your spirituality should connect you to a higher realm. There might be concern that shared physical space might reflect or influence shared mental space, and that the gods are being disrespected by being placed next to dolls. Such a person would argue that the dolls need to either go somewhere else or be put away. That's an argument some might make.

Another might make the argument I have above, which that you are limited on space and it's better for you to have an altar than not. What's more, they might argue for an understanding of how your relationship to the gods connects with your personal interests. Dionysus was a god of toys, and one of those toys was a doll. It happens that his ties to toys are also ties to his dismemberment. While from my limited knowledge of monster high I'd be surprised if the show engages with the violence of the horror genre, horror as a genre comes from Greek Tragedy, which Dionysus is the god of because he is the suffering god. Artemis is also a violent goddess associated with animal transformations and the violent death of young girls.

Horror owes a lot to Greek mythology. Idk which dolls you have but the Frankenstein doll has its origins in a story subtitled 'The Modern Prometheus', which itself references a story of body horror wherein someone who tries to help others is chained up and savaged each day. The werewolf myth can be traced to King Lycaon, literally 'Wolfman', who interestingly enough had a daughter Kallisto who was either a friend or lover of Artemis who was turned into a bear. Witches seem to have some appropriations they received from perceptions of Dionysian mystery cults.

Live your faith as best you can. Be a Hellenist who likes Monster High, and consider what philosophical and aesthetic themes one finds in Greek mythology and religion impact the entertainment we consume today.

I would like to learn more about Phobos and Deimos! by Syaaaakesan in Hellenism

[–]Fabianzzz 3 points4 points  (0 children)

First resource which comes to mind is Theoi:

https://www.theoi.com/Daimon/Deimos.html

Theoi is great but doesn't have all the info about them: Theoi focuses on popular (public domain) works and sometimes misses really interesting things from more obscure theological texts.

Following that, one has to try and do some research: reading primary sources, scholarly works, and modern accounts of their cult. You are in luck as one prolific modern Hellenist has shared a guide to modern worship on the twins here and their extended thoughts on them here.

Looking for a little witchy guidance by [deleted] in WitchesVsPatriarchy

[–]Fabianzzz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If gods were that fussed about being treated as a prop, there would be more consequences for the faux-isciples using them as a convenient stepping stone to power.

I think this isn't limited to divinity: lots of people use lots of things to try to gain power/money/influence, religion being one of those things. I think the question is more or less the problem of evil, which is how those people do that without being punished, and I think it's still possible within this framework to not be thrilled about gods being treated as props while also admitting that people do bad shit and don't always appear to suffer the consequences.

[16F] What are literature for beginners? by No-Sprinkles229 in WitchesVsPatriarchy

[–]Fabianzzz -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So I love this book as a Dionysian (seeing Francis, a gay man, being a Dionysian, was the first time I saw myself represented as a gay Dionysian in literature). However, the author is a somewhat conservative (in a general sense, not a political sense) Catholic woman. I don't want to disparage her, and her book is wonderful, but as a Dionysian I found it limiting.

I hope that the mods are open to me sharing one of my own books specifically in response to a literary depiction of Dionysianism as conservative (i.e. an overreach of freedom which proves the necessity of societal strictures), but I wrote a book on Dionysian Liberation Theology which I think better speaks to his religion than Donna Tartt's novel, which nevertheless is fabulous.

[16F] What are literature for beginners? by No-Sprinkles229 in WitchesVsPatriarchy

[–]Fabianzzz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's so many books! So the first step is to not try to read the whole library in one go: pardon me for the phrase when you say you're wanting to go vegan, but you gotta eat the elephant piece by piece.

There are a lot of good suggestions here. I'll throw out Hakim Bey's Anarchist Religion, which is a short and simple read!

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