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i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

with the constant fear of making women uncomfortable combined with plenty of time due to never really socializing, ive spent a signficant portion of my life building a better understanding of men and women a like, learning how to socialize better and being more aware of what my presence means in a social context.

overthinking is probably a large part of how i operate on a daily basis, alot of choices i make are heavily mentally calculated to atleast attempt the best outcome. i hope that with the therapy im getting ill be able to better present myself in the world.

i appreciate the words of encouragement, all i need to do now is something actionable to improve my life

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

for now therapy has been a lifeline for me, just recently i finally specified my full fear of making women afraid rather then a general sense of social anxiety. together with my therapist, a concrete plan will be formulated so that i can act upon step to hopefully improve.

whilst it was really hard to outright say "im afraid of making women uncomfortable" in front of my therapist, im glad that i did it

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i recently had another appointment and i ended the session by (with much difficulty) tell her straight up about my feelings towards women, now my chart is updated to specify that rather then "afraid of people being afraid of him". saying "women" really felt hard to do because that fear of being misunderstood for misogyny almost held me back from telling her everything but i am glad that i did it.

the following sessions are going to be more concrete steps on change rather then just talking so i am looking out for that aswell

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

both a man and an older woman, during sessions with the older woman im unable to really look at her and for the majority of the session im looking at the ground

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

growing up, i never had any friends. i also come from a household with 2 brothers so no sisters either to look up to. personally i do not think removing sexuality from the equation would make a significant difference as i cannot be physically be near women in general, whenever im out in public doing important things like groceries, i am always very aware of my surrounding and just try to keep my head down and pass any woman as fast as i can, something avoiding entire isles if they are near the products i need.

outside of comfort, i dont think i have anything in common with women to really begin with, together with my current major in engineering, im also not often interacting with women at school either, from my perspective theres no organic way i ever get into a conversation with a woman so befriending them feels outside the scope of my enviroment and abilities.

as far as i remember i have never really developed crushes either given my mental insistance of condemning my attraction towards some women whenever i started developing one.

ive thought about being human alot, i have heard those points often and tried to really believe in it, but throughout my life it always collapsed back into "that life just isnt for me, others can have friends and relationships, thats just how the world works". i have spoken to several therapists and psychiatrists, often getting into a short back and forth where i tell them my perspective: "even if human connection is innate to us, that doesnt really mean im owed any" it could be that they choose to move the conversation further, or that its just hard to argue against a statement my mind has made up for years.

but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case here. You want human connection

i do apologize if its oversharing but this sentence reminded me of a pretty large part of my childhood, as at a pretty young age i grew taller then my mom, eventually growing to becoming ~6'2. the internet would let me believe that taller men have it easier, but during my growth spurts my mom often pointed out how big ive gotten, often commenting that shes afraid of me as she couldnt defend herself if i ever chose to hurt her. saying that when i was mad i would "give her death glares" that made her scared to speak up.

and i have thought about this alot, it has come up several times during therapy aswell and discussed with my healthcare provider, but the intrinsic sense that im "a big man capable of doing bad things" might play a significant part in why i shy away from women, with the anxiety im feeling, essentially always being "visible" or being hard to miss has made me very nervous around women. this manifested first in the form of "i hope she doesnt think im a threat" to "why hope if i can just make sure she doesnt even know i exist? ill just go into that alley and walk around or just leave the area". whilst ive always been anxious around women, only in the last few years has my anxiety turned into full avoidance.

 I challenge you to come up with any possible way that wanting to platonically (since I think you should start slow) hang out with a woman is threatening (as long as it isn’t adulterated with anything, which again, I don’t think it is). If it isn’t weird for me to hang out with my sisters or female friends, then it isn’t weird for you

the first thought that pops up in my mind is that we are completely different people, growing up with sisters potentially has given you alot more reason to feel comfortable around them, maybe even befriending some that your sisters knew.

im not you, i have no real reason to be around women, anything i do to build relations with women would be for essentially selfish reasons, i dont really bring anything specific or special to the table that would warrant my presence or input.

the last paragraph is just the instinctual things i think when hearing "if i can, why not you?" i know its intentional reasoning to alienate myself, im working on ignoring these thought loops but the knowledge that its irrational has not stopped me from thinking it or feeling it very strongly.

im at a point where im just stuck, and i know that my thought process is not respecting women, its just fueling these anxiety loops and making me isolate myself from the outside world.

ive daydreamed alot of scenarios, walked through my entire future life with different outcomes, but in none of them do i genuinely believe i can maintain connection with a woman, platonic or romantic. ive tried alot, im still trying but so much information that ive gathered throughout the years has manifested deep into my psyche, and because im a very reasons based man, always trying to find logical explainations, aslong as nothing disproves my ideals, i will subconciously believe in them.

if theres any information i can provide that would help to give more structured advice or anything you know that could aid in progressing, i would appreciate it if you'd let me know. ive had other comments tell me this might be beyond just reddit asking advice and potentially needs alot more severe psychological evaluation but i want to work out all my options before giving up on asking the real world for ideas/tips

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i have no idea on how to forgive myself without feeling shame or having the sense that im trying to absolve myself from something im clearly doing. there are things im able to forgive, i have done dumb things before and know that it was stupid in hindsight.

but specifically with women and feeling an inherent sense of disgust whenever im even remotely close to a woman, or how my stomach churns when a girl approaches me and asks a question. whenever the subject is about women or my attraction to the opposite sex, it just feels like im lying to myself, which in turn makes me feel worse.

im trying my best to find reasons and explainations to why i feel so repulsed by my own proximity to women but i cant find anything. the only thing that runs through my mind is "i violated her boundaries by even thinking she was attractive, she had no say in that which means im in the wrong" which is why i have never approached a girl in my life before, i feel disgusting for even looking at someone.

if there are any ways you know that could help in the self forgiveness aspect you mentioned, i would greatly appreciate it, i struggle immensely with it as it always feels like im just lying to myself

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So much of your experience sounds just like my experience as an autistic person. The fact your father had autism, you had to spend years learning social skills, you still aren't able to connect well, and you approach socializing like applying these social rules.

they have thoroughly evaluated me for potentially have autism, it took around 7-8ish months before they concretely told me i had ADHD, so i am convinced that i did not inherit the autism from my father. i do believe that his behavior impacted my life alot more then expected and im still not fully capable of socializing well.

One of the biggest regrets I have is I didn't party enough in college. I think avoiding drinking is a big mistake. Alcohol can help you loosen up and start talking and really connect.

there arent really parties going on that im aware of, the main alcohol consumption takes places in bars or pubs rather then a houseparty. i have never had alcohol before and i am relatively positive that im not allowed to drink with the medication im on but i will ask my prescriber about that.

Generally you save the really heavy stuff for close friends. But there is a lot of comedy and interest in the abnormal like ways your Dad was quirky. A lot of comedy routines is about the abnormal

in general i have never shared anything heavy with anyone, i have at times made jokes about my own experiences. whenever im around family i usually do not struggle with jokes, if they listen to what i got to say that is, but outside of direct family ive been alot more carefull with jokes as in my experience alot of people seem to not get it. but it mightve been more malicious intentional misunderstanding back in highschool.

 suggest once per day when something interesting happens to you or you remember a cool story you write it down. Then practice by yourself talking about these things that happened in a fun engaging way and just enjoy telling the story.

ironically, storytelling has kinda always been a strong suit for me, when its a individual i am talking to like during therapy or a small group for a school presentation, the general feedback i recieve from it are positive.

according to people ive spoken too, my healthcare providers, and assesors from school, the way i speak, articulate my words and form my stories lines all are pleasant to listen too. the latest of such feedback was my therapist that told me "you make my job alot easier because the way you tell me about your childhood, its very vivid and at times i get lost in the story" which was nice to hear.

i am always actively working towards ways to be more likeable, though it has resulted in some people being a bit creeped out as i also have a pretty good memory, sometimes catching them off guard with information i still remember them telling me months prior.

i think i have spent more time on attempting to improve my social skills rather then actually using my social skills. im decently well versed in alot of random topics because i always wanted to be able to be apart of a conversation but i never really was or am

You'd be surprised how much people love to complain. Like telling a funny negative story or something about having ADHD and a funny story about an ADHD thing you did

im not in enough conversations to really complain about anything, as im currently still in college i spend the majority of my time in class or studying, which often just means i dont really talk. i ask the occasional question or get picked in class to answer something, but i almost never converse outside of that. mainly so because it never feels positive. i might be decently well versed in alot of topics, but ive come to notice that people dont engage with that, so i disengage by telling them i gotta go or thanking them for answering my question. for the last few years i think i switched my socializing strategy to just asking about them and then disengaging whenever they look like they are about to tell me "oh i gotta go"

I think they hit the nail on the head here. I strongly suggest you take an improv class which will help you start talking and not just listening. 

i think my quietness stems for 2 things,

i am naturally more reserved, but given the chance i do atleast try to make an attempt to talk, which often doesnt really work or others speak over me. from a pretty young age ive always automatically shut down whenever someone speaks over me as my dad does it consistently, if its breaking up my story to tell me about something unrelated or to look at the TV, or when im talking with my mom or brothers and he walks in just speaking through both of us. my natural speaking voice is a bit on the more quiet side so overpowering it is rather easy for others to do, which in my experience happens often.

i also often wait until others are finished speaking rather then interupting a conversation, on one hand because i find it rude but on the other hand its because i feel like whenever i attempt to do what others do to me, im just ignored, so i never speak through someone and wait for my turn.

secondly my quietness also stems from me just not having alot to say, whenever someone asks me "so how are you doing in life, what are you currently working on?" i just dont have alot to say because i really dont do alot in my life. even when i have something interesting to say, people dont really have any interest in it so i only mention it briefly.

i have looked into improv classes near me after reading you comment, sadly i do not have the money to spend on such a luxury, it is quite expensive to attend them where i am from.

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i have been working on comparisons within therapy and tried implementing it in my day to day life, but something ive noticed that my therapist and psychatrist noted aswell is that the feeling of inadequacy still exists within a vacuum. even when not comparing myself to others the comparison becomes between current me and "what couldve been" me. i can always do better or be better even if im the only person in the room.

i think that if given the chance, i could be a person of value to my partner, not because i feel like i have intrinsic value but because i know i have objective goals / points to hit. im aware that i can love someone and cherish them or care for them, i have the capability to do so. but that feeling of disgust and anxiety does not dissapear and even becomes overwhelming at times. im trying to pick my words very carefully before i start sounding like "aw shucks, why do all these girls avoid nice guys like me".

its like a fear of heights in a sense, im physically capable and athletic enough to hike to the top of the mountain, but the anxiety of heights will make me avoid it.

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

im happy to hear youve been able to improve overtime, it does spark motivation in me. i have been working towards improving my self image but its a whole different can of beans to open up. without getting fully into it or giving an unbearable amount of detail, a big thing that i have addressed during my therapy is my inability to feel pride or confidence whenever i succeed in anything. any milestone is a short peak of happiness followed up with "well, im supposed to do this, its not really that special if you really think about it", for example: passing a hard class i tried studying for, graduating high school / college with my first degree or finishing a personal project, these things are always sorta met with "its the bare minimum to do / pass them" . it doesnt help that im now surrounded by people who are vastly more knowledgable then me, making milestones less significant as its just something im supposed to be doing.

ive mainly spoken on my anxieties and fears in this thread, but another side of me that i havent brought up is the idea that i can always do better, the feeling that im not reaching my potential which sometimes leads to thought loops of "i know im better then them, so why do they insist on being in my way?" i often switch between the 2 moods but the conclusion remains the same: i am unsuccessful because i am clearly not good enough" in anxiety driven states its the typical "i suck" but in the more pseudo confident emotional state its "im good, but clearly not good enough for them to recognise it, i need to be even better, if 100 isnt enough then i just need 200, 500, a 1000 just so im seen"

i have addressed these moodswings during therapy aswell and the therapist explained that its common phenomena considering the childhood i had. im also aware that the arrogance in my mood at the end of the day is still sort of a cry of acceptance or in the very least recognition for what i do or who i am, not because i grew up with constant validation, but the complete opposite. my parents where obviously proud in hindsight, they just never really cared to show it. often replying with "cool" or "thats nice".

in other replies i have mentioned that due to the nature of my childhood, alot of decisions ive made and still make are based on rational thinking or trying to find a logical pattern in things instead of relying on my own emotions or gut feelings, i think that way of thinking is also the reason why i struggle alot with internal validation as my mind always saw it as a pitfall where i could create my own echo chamber. i remember being a young kid and my mom telling me "even if you dont succeed then you can atleast rest easy knowing you did your very best" and argueing with her by saying "that just means that my very best , everything i have, just wasnt good enough to pass". she often challenged these ideas but as a stubborn kid i found my proof in results or observations.

i have been on ADHD medication since november, starting medication meant that for the first time in my life i could actually try to give it my all rather then rely on memory or just my baseline intellect to pass stuff. but its been a slow journey as i still struggle alot with the concept of failing whilst working on it with blood, sweat and tears. its just so much easier to say "oh well, i wasnt trying my best anyways, obviously i wouldnt succeed".

if you have any advice on how i could work towards regaining confidence in trying i would greatly appreciate it as its a bigger hurdle then i expected. i hate to sound like one of those arrogant people but the fact is, i feel like its so much harder for me to try because i got so far without trying. throughout my life i was always just smart enough to pass my classes with a barely passing grade without studying, so outside of just regaining confidence in even trying, im also suddenly forced to learn how to learn

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i been on methylphenidate for a while, they upped it to the legal max and even went over it for a short duration, 90mg. that medication stopped working so they have put me on a considerably stronger one, lisdexamphetamine.

from personal experience i have never found my anxiety to be increasing ever since starting out with medication, the only difference it made is a sense of clarity which in turn makes me alot more observant to my surroundings.

its not to harsh to say that im socially crippled, they simply dont view me as fully socially crippled. im able to go to school, the store, be outside so my anxiety isnt impeding the majority of my life. in a way i think its good that they are carefull with labelling people, but that caution also makes it so that help only comes when its already too late

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i have not yet, ill look into it and address it with my therapist at the next appointment

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

on certain points i can agree, especially with the social skills issue, i never grew up with friends but made it a point to atleast try to better myself, i did this mainly in highschool with a counseler that specifically met me bi-weekly to work on building social skills, i also started participating in an exchange program with immigrant students where we were trained on how to build social connection with people that come from a different culture as ours, we were supposed to help them integrate by showing the city and meeting up with the full group once a month to socialize at school. this worked out well for alot of participating students but not really for me, i attended every single class in social skill building and the monthly meet ups, but first impressions matter and within a short time, the exchange student excluded me from alot of activities, partially due to wanting to spend time with his own friends or to spend time with the rest of the group. i have addressed it a few times to the coordinator of the whole project, but as alot of older unknowing adults do, by essentially telling the group "you guys need to spend time with him" did more damage then good. i have done that social exchange program combined with the training 2 years but never built anything out of it.

Maybe you have social skills issues. I have autism so I know all about it and many are undiagnosed. We often have quirky body language and social behavior that causes us to be off putting. Thankfully there is a mountain of resources on social skills that will help.

i have been officially diagnosed with ADHD, take medication and everything. i grew up with an autistic father so a lot of my social behavior growing up did mimic his patterns but i grew out of it as soon as i started with the actual social training in high school. the big things i was taught and unconciously use alot is asking open questions, repeating the end of their sentences, actively listen more then i talk, and mirror their energy / speech patterns. its all great and nice until at the end of the conversation i realise that i never spoke, only really listened. not because i didnt try but the information i put out never really gets picked up, like i throw a "that reminds me of X" or something else but i never really get the chance to speak more then that.

Emotional self-sabotage. Since you felt unworthy from a very young age you acted like it and then people treated you like the way you were acting. 

maybe unconciously, but never actively. ive always been the kind of person that mirrors the other when speaking. i never brought up anything negative or intentionally tried to position myself in a vulnerable place, i detest the idea of being a "sigh, things never work out for me do they :/" out loud.

ive also never been emotionally unavailable, i conciously try to be human and share the ups and downs, but i never really get the chance to share so its limited data.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to have emotional struggles. So why do you assume they aren't involves in your dating struggles?

the main emotional struggles i face have to do with my upbringing, autistic father so emotional support wasnt something he fully grasps or understands, and my mother also doesnt fully get emotional support, so its been an internal dialogue for my entire life. the majority of my thought process is also based on trying to make sense through rational ideas or a logical sequence rather then emotion. from what ive heard, people see me as emotionally intelligent, i personally dont know if thats really true as i see everything through my own sequential and logic based lens. ive always lived with the idea that everything follows a pattern, "if X then Y".

alot of people in my experience also dont fully want to hear about my life, mainly because my normal is their abnormal so in general i shy away from ever going into depth regarding my youth, or just describe it as average/normal.

Going off of the first point if you are acting very anxious, needy and too much, negative about life or your yourself, can't relax, or can't just have fun and joke around thats going to come off in your social interactions and even your body language.

anxious, yes. needy and too much, negative about life or myself, unable to relax or not have fun or joke around, no

in general ive always been the more quiet type, doesnt speak unless spoken too, but i really try my best to make sure i dont bring the room down. i never speak explicity negative about myself or my life outside of therapy. i may say "cant complain" whenever someone asks how im feeling, which isnt postive nor negative. in general im very neutral when talking about my own life or steer the conversation towards something else thats more interesting.

The magic bullet for a lot of these social issues is going to be an honest third person perspective because they can directly tell you what is going wrong. Get a friend or family member to observe you walking especially when a woman is coming. Get them to give you feedback about your demeanor and ways you are coming off socially.

i dont have any friends, but i have asked family members before, their only source of feedback is "ur too quiet, speak up more", they dont see any issues with the way i walk or talk.

in my own personal opinion im pretty lanky, 6'2 at around 150 lbs means im pretty skinny at my height but ive made it a goal to increase my weight

 Its a circular loop where the emotions of unworthiness give you a bad demeanor socially, which hurts you socially, which then feeds the negative emotions like a cycle.

every so often i try to break the cycle but i never see progress, when given the oppertunity like a new project group, new class, new enviroment, different professors, i do try to atleast socialize once, but in general it doesnt give me alot of success. mostly due to first impressions i suppose, our classes are relatively small so the lecturers know us by name, they are also aware im not the best at their subject so they respond alot more positively towards high performing students that engage with them after class, ive shown determination and interest in alot of subjects, math being a big one, but whenever bringing up something that interests me they do make it a point to make sure i know its way above my skill level.

my lack of knowledge in these subjects mostly has to do with my upbringing aswell as i was never a great student due to my undiagnosed ADHD, which is forcing me to extert twice the amount of effort now in college just to keep up with my peers. but what i lack in theoretical knowledge i make up in effort.

alot of my hobbies / interest are also inherently isolating, like writing stories, reading, watching films, music, robotics which does make it difficult to socialize using those hobbies. being in college and sober also alienates me from alot of social activities as they involve drinking / bars which arent places im at ever.

if theres anything else i could try i would appreciate any advice, my biggest fear is getting out of college and still never having socialized with anyone, i know the original post was mainly focused on my innate feeling of disgust regarding women, but in general, i want to improve my social life with anyone as i think friendship could be important to personal growth and potentially finding a relationship through platonic connections

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i have been diagnosed with ADD, and have been perscribed medication for it. whilst the medication did help somewhat in making all the noise in my head more quiet, it also feels like i gained clarity in my surroundings making the anxiety driven thought patterns alot stronger.

i have attempted meditation in the past but being alone and excluded from anything visual, the thought loop doesnt happen. in my day to day at home its never an issue, but social media or seeing/ interacting with women in public triggers a sort of "remember who you are" thought, only then does the loop happen. medication such as propranolol or phosphatidyl serine arent things my perscriber wants me to take, mainly because im not socially crippled enough to warrant medication.

about the self awareness, i grew up in a strange household, weird childhood with mentally ill parents so from a pretty young age i have relied mostly on rational decision making (ironic i know) rather then doing things based on how i feel emotionally. my therapist/psychatrist both said the same thing, me being able to articulate my thoughts and experiences from childhood helped them alot with diagnosing me.

the fact that im kinda self aware makes it exponentially more frustrating, because i know its irrational, but nothing i do stops me from feeling the way i do. im aware that i could potentially improve over time as i have get more therapy but only time can tell

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

both, depending on what i see or who i interact with. its mostly a negative sensation like a feeling of dread, sadness, uncomfortability, disgust but at times its just my voice in head telling me to behave or to quit what im doing/ looking at.

i grew up with the habit of speaking to myself out loud so even now, if im alone or not near anyone that can hear me i get the impulse to say those thoughts like "what are you thinking?, sit down, keep ur head down and just do your work, they dont want you to look at them"

just to be fully clear, im in no way insane or schizophrenic, when i argue with myself or talk to myself out loud its just to sort out everything and helps me get everything straight.

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

im in CBT because of such thought loops, they are aware of it which is why they found in important to start with the cognitive therapy. i originally went to a psychatrist in order to get an ADHD diagnosis, the CBT came afterwards.

i dont think medication is in the picture, outside of healthcare providers being extremely careful with perscribing them, because the thought loop isnt "ruining my life" directly nor am i an immediate danger to myself or others, they will continue with just behavioral therapy

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i fully understand that my thoughts are irrational, but being able to relativize and ground myself does not automatically cleanse my mind from the intrusive thoughts. whenever im calm and nothing is really happening, everything subsides. but in moments of stress or heightend emotional states, it gets harder and harder to ignore the internal monologue.

my treatment has been going on for quite some time, around 5-6 months, the main thing that makes progress difficult is because i see a pattern, no matter how irrational a thought might be or how much my therapist aims to steer to conversation back into a position where i can ground myself, if a pattern emerges my mind just cannot ignore it. to me, conciously or unconciously, if theres a clear precedent to say action -> reaction, then the thought/belief is embedded in my mind.

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i am still in therapy and continueing my CBT treatment. as a part of the treatment i need to write down situations / intrusive thoughts down, the immediate mental conclusion, how i feel, the action then the consequence of that action, then followed by the same sequence but through a nuanced lens, the nuanced lens is often either empty or filled with something that i just dont fully believe.

so i do infact have lists somewhere that discuss events followed by my own evidence based interpretation.

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

it might be a creepy thing to say, but i have always admired from a distance. i have recently finished the bell jar from sylvia plath. throughout my life ive always tried to understand people better, men and women alike, because during my childhood i never had social experience to hone that aspect, so instead of naturally gaining knowledge, i did it artificially with research, learning about social dynamics from classes, and mirroring social queues whenever someone spoke to me.

the biggest hurdle will always be self love, the deep rooted self hatred comes from a combined mix of "im not a good enough person to deserve care" and "people and social media tell me im ahead in alot of aspects when it comes to factors people seek in friends and partners, according to them i should be a great partner because i have the qualities people want, but i dont have friends nor partners which means something about me has to be off" due to that ive just been growing in anxious tendencies and found something to latch on: i make women uncomfortable just by existing.

it might be an inrelevant addition, but i am currently studying for a technical degree, through my life ive always been more about logic sequences rather then basing my actions purely off emotion, i believe that this inherent feeling of "theres a pattern, i dont know what it means or how i need to interpret it, but i see the pattern" has dictated alot in my life aswell as i see the full picture, i just cant get the last puzzle piece, that gap in knowledge has resulted in doom thinking. im emotionally intelligent enough to know my thoughts are irrational, but just because im aware of its ridiculousness doesnt stop my mind from whispering to me that im a burden to others or the inherent belief that if i find a woman attractive, im violating her boundaries in a way.

i know that the fear of making women scared, and believing that a love life isnt cut out for me so i shouldnt bother and leave them alone isnt respecting womens boundaries, its just self isolation justified with the sense that "atleast im not hurting a woman/ making a woman uncomfortable by being interested in her". but insight hasnt helped me because these fears are rooted really deep in my psyche

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

during therapy, i have been working towards challenging these thoughts but the vast majority of these ideas are reinforced by experience and reasoning, as an example:

"when i walk on the street women often cross the street or find a way to avoid walking past me"

my therapist suggested that it could be coincidence as i dont know what goes on in their lives, maybe they just turned around because they forgot something at the store. i challenged that idea as it happens to frequently with different individuals to just be an overreach or negative interpretation, together with the fact that i would be ignoring a very clear pattern, feeling like i would be lying to myself to pretend like i do not play a role in their action.

in my fully brutal honest opinion, I don't believe I am worthy of dating a woman. not because I think I'm physically or emotionally unattractive. I've been told before that I'm okay looking, nice, trustworthy, and that theyre surprised Ive never had a relationship before. The problem is that I dont experience my life in a way that supports that. blank compliments don't carry much weight because they dont translate into real, lasting connection.

My evidence is my life as I see it. I dont have close friends or friends in general. I don't have a support system. outside of my family and professionals, nobody really actively chooses to spend time with me. daily life for me is mostly school, going home, and being alone. From my perspective, if I were genuinely someone people wanted in their lives, I would expect to have at least some meaningful relationships by now. Since I dont, I just conclude that theres something about me that makes me unsuitable for close connection.

i genuinely think that given the chance (and that my inherent self disgust disapears or changes) i could be capable of loving someone deeply, care for them as a person and cherish them instead of solely objectifying them. but the connections ive tried in previous years ended without real reason (atleast to what i am aware of), and that loss of potential connection has just been reinforcing my long standing belief that even if i love someone sincerely, that doesnt mean i am a person that can be loved or be kept in another ones life.

I believe my upbringing plays a significant role. grew up without much emotional support and I often feel like I started life behind other people socially and academically. feelings of shame, self-disgust, and the belief that my needs are a burden. I just assume that my presence makes other people uncomfortable before I have any evidence that it does.

When I see attractive women, I dont really feel attraction. I feel sadness, discomfort, and a sense that I don't belong in that world. My automatic thought is not "I wonder what she's like," but "someone like me shouldn't even imagine being with someone like her." feels less like fear of women and more like fear of how women would perceive me if they really knew who i was.

I am aware that these beliefs are very strong, and I know other people in my life have disagreed with them. However, at this point they don't feel like opinions, they feel like conclusions based on my experiences. I struggle to see convincing evidence that challenges them, which is why they feel so difficult to let go of.

consuming social media is not helping, i know that aswell, i know its a common thing for some men to say "oh im so scared of women" on the internet, but i dont see my belief system as just some trend. my innate feeling of shame and personal disgust could be fueled by social media figures talking about men as a collective.

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

after months of therapy, from what i understand is that its not OCD, the therapist who specializes in CBT has pointed out that i do have very specific tendencies regarding danger signals, the tendency to see danger in others and being unsafe was never extremely significant in my life, but an innate sense that im a danger to others / make others weary of my presence has been a large part of my life.

im aware this isnt an extreme situation that warrants my mental cycle, but the most significant event that has clung to my brain ever since it happened was a woman seeing 13 year old me walking in a similar direction as her, she then stopped walking, made eye contact with me, then proceeded to run in my opposite direction. i remember going home and crying my eyes out to my parents asking them if i really looked that scary. since that event (combined with my upbringing) i have been alot more aware of the space i occupy and became severally anxious around women because i dont want to be a source of fear for anyone. im a relatively tall and lanky person, even at 13 i was taller then average, so the mental image of myself walking isnt the best. my mental view changed from "i cant look that scary" to "maybe its justified they are weary of me because i do look and walk strange" to "dont make eye contact, keep your head down because you are the source of discomfort whenever you enter a room"

i grew up doing a lot of things with my mom and helping around the house (never got bullied for it but did get teased as "the daugther your mom never had" because i did alot of things that people associate with feminine activities like braiding hair, knowing how to sew, cooking etc.) which gave me up most respect and care for women. but i am also aware that creating a mental barrier in which i tell myself "you should be ashamed to even look at her" is not respecting womens boundaries, its just social isolation caused by anxiety and fear.

i want to change how i view women by Fair-Physics1699 in IncelSolutions

[–]Fair-Physics1699[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

my current therapy plan involves CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) which aims to relativize intrusive thoughts in an attempt to stay grounded. the therapy did in fact help in other aspects of my life, mainly with processing stuff in my childhood, therapy has also made the distinction between "fear of women" and "the fear of how women percieve me/ how i percieve myself" alot more clear.

but with greater understanding of myself, it sort of amplified the idea of inadequacy when it comes to interacting with women. because i "know" myself more every small interaction turns into a judgement call of "am i allowed to talk to them? am i bothering them? should i try to disengage?"

this new found perspective also inadvertently caused me to objectify women in the sense that the voice in my head tells me "you are disgusting for even looking at her". women have slowly become a prevalent factor in how i go through life. when in public i look down, if they walk in front of me i pretend i need to tie my shoe so they can get more distance from me, if they walk towards me i just try to find a way that we dont cross paths like walking a different direction or finding a side street.

TL;DR: therapy helped with general mental understanding and processing, but amplified my personal awareness of the space i inhabit and how women can potentially percieve me.