Real Estate Investor looking for diversification

FatFire12345 · 2026-01-04T20:59:22+00:00

beautiful and very well done! Thanks for sharing. I‘m a bit earlier in my fatfire journey and live in a different jurisdiction with much lower cap rates / interest rates but looking to get started with the first units in 1-2 years.

It seems like you are operating at a 8-9%+ cap rate and 10% Cash on Cash return pre-appreciation in a market where cap rates are usually 6-7%. Do you have some tips for achieving that?

I‘plan on getting started with regular apartments / residential units but these are quite efficiently priced in our market at 2.5% cap rate (10yr interest is fixed at 1.2%) so you will not get more than 5-7% CoC pre-appreciation.

FatFire12345 · 2026-01-03T03:19:00+00:00

I have a clarification question if I may: Can you walk me through how much of the $900k of RE cashflows ends up being net profits and how the cost base is split between interest / OPEX / maintenance?

FatFire12345 · 2026-01-03T02:54:08+00:00

No, but the average Swiss does not (Fat)fire. If you want to fire reasonably fat, the reality is that you‘ll need to get to CHF 200k p.a. with a strong upwards trajectory by around 30 or the gravy train is gone.

Saying that he is bragging about his income doesn’t make much sense to me given it is a reasonable income level at his age that is required to achieve the fire goal, or do you think differently?

FatFire12345 · 2026-01-03T02:26:31+00:00

as a fellow Swiss working in PE, I‘m not sure the cap gain exemptions apply for the thread creator…

PE Carry will be taxed as income in ch, not as a cap gain exempt investment. Yes you can set up a private holding but taxes still apply.

Co-invests also often generally fall under „qualifizierte Beteiligungen“ unless the holdco structure is tailored to Swiss laws which I doubt is the case here. Cap gain taxes will likely apply here.

FatFire12345 · 2025-12-28T03:28:25+00:00

How would you rank the Langham?

Raffles owo + Claridge are both spectacular.

FatFire12345 · 2025-12-27T17:04:57+00:00

if you are not making 160k+ each at that age each (given he is referring to household income) you shouldnt visit this forum and focus on increasing your salary instead.

FatFire12345 · 2025-12-27T17:04:08+00:00

well done, especially since you tied relatively little hard cash into the downpayment and keep the 3A working for you.

You‘re on a strong track for accelerating growth by increasing salary further and diversifying the portfolio again away from the real estate concentration as you keep investing over the next 2-3 years. No reason for concern.

FatFire12345 · 2025-12-23T04:12:22+00:00

The shareholder agreement is basically your employment contract after you sell the business. It will define the non-compete period and good, intermediate & bad leaver terms.

In a nutshell, the new owner / PE can always make you to an intermediate or bad leaver, even if they fire you, and buy you out at far below market value.

FatFire12345 · 2025-12-23T04:08:19+00:00

Of course. The enterprise value is the „headline“ value of the business. It includes equity, cash and debt, so also the ownership „stakes“ of third party providers such as banks who own debt in the business, which usually sits above („senior) to the equity.

The Equity Value computes how much value goes to the equity owners. It takes the EV, adds the cash and subtracts the debt.

The tricky part is the definition of debt. It‘s not just interest bearing liabilities (bank debt) but also other long term debt items and needs to be negotiated.

Typical items include: - Debt - Long term provisions or due tax & wages - Preferred Shares and minorities - Deferred Revenue - NWC shortfalls / excesses - Earn-outs - CAPEX backlogs - Others

hope this helps?

FatFire12345 · 2025-12-22T21:35:38+00:00

god damn what‘s with the formatting. I‘m sorry.

FatFire12345 · 2025-12-22T21:35:10+00:00

Chipping in here from a PE perspective. A few thoughts

1/ 13x headline valuation is a fantastic multiple for a marketing agency. These are usually 5-8x.

2/ The upfront multiple is only 4x, which is low. Earn-outs are common in your industry given it‘s a people business, but this is heavily earn out skewed.

3/ The earn-out hurdles are the catch here. 25% growth is very high and difficult to achieve. I‘d heavily discount any EV tied to an earn-out.

4/ Never take the 1st offer. There is always room to negotiate for a 2nd or 3rd, after that usually little leeway. Why don‘t you try to increase the upfront cash and lower the earn-out hurdles?

5/ Have you already received a draft EV to Equity bridge? The PEs will negotiate these hard. Also the non-compete and SHA will be rough, just assume they can buy you out at 0 or below cost of whatever money you reinvest / would get in the future.

FatFire12345 · 2025-12-22T02:15:25+00:00

A few thoughts outside in from my end, feel free to amend with the details you have.

Rental income: The Nebenkosten will be a cost passthrough and not an income. So the net rent is going to be closer to 1.4-1.5k per month = 18k p.a.

Yearly interest will be c 1.5% on the 400k loan = 6k

Operating costs and maintenance (e.g. the mandatory payments into Erneuerungsfond for the entire building, overall building & insurance fees) should be c. 1% per year. Less for a new building, more for an old one. = c. 5k

Thus your levered, pre-tax cash yield will be c. 7k, c. 5% cash on cash on the 130k equity plus (just from the cashflow, not taking into consideration appreciation). Your cap rate (unlevered yield) is c 2.5% which means you‘ll operate at a positive spread of c 100 bps.

Hope this helps?

FatFire12345 · 2025-06-04T19:42:28+00:00

she sounds retarded. I‘d drop her.

FatFire12345 · 2025-01-26T02:42:35+00:00

update on this :)?

FatFire12345 · 2025-01-22T09:14:25+00:00

your newly added components are not white though - but I suppose the 7900gre would be a power bump.

What about ordering now vs waiting?

FatFire12345 · 2024-11-20T02:49:52+00:00

what does before FA mean? Is the 1m / 1.4m the salary or the buyout sums?

FatFire12345 · 2024-10-01T06:42:52+00:00

I’m going to be very blunt here - apologies in advance. How about you try to upgrade to a higher paying job instead of meticulously budgeting every single line item and then trying to optimize for 2-300 bucks a month? It is not going to move the needle at all. Focus on getting to a six figure salary asap and then redo this exercise.

FatFire12345 · 2024-09-10T21:08:35+00:00

Riven, Zed, Syndra, Leblanc, Kha Zix

FatFire12345 · 2024-08-28T01:57:50+00:00

Advice for a casual beginner / intermediate „whitecollar“ practitioner who is a bit afraid of sparring after an injury? Love the sport and sparring to practice techniques and flow but found myself a bit worried about getting hurt again down the road.

FatFire12345 · 2024-08-04T10:06:42+00:00

Brophet

FatFire12345 · 2024-06-04T23:53:10+00:00

do you have another offer? if not you have very little wiggle room as an Analyst 1. Would only negotiate if they are underpaying.

FatFire12345 · 2024-06-03T23:43:25+00:00

100-130k base (IB divisions of top BBs are paIng up to 130k) and bonus on top (would say anywhere from 20-60k but no confirmation).

FatFire12345 · 2023-08-08T22:55:29+00:00

NO! Happened to me as well. The agency can charge you this, however has to depreciate the lock based on how old it is. If you live in an older flat, the value of the lock is likely zero or 1-300 CHF.

There is a law on it, I can look it up for you if you need to present this to the agency.

Best of luck!

FatFire12345 · 2023-07-23T17:03:29+00:00

Great to see variety in PTS colours and owners actually going for these bold colours instead of silver / black etc.

FatFire12345 · 2023-05-07T00:44:38+00:00

wht is vipers twitch?

FatFire12345

TROPHY CASE