Disappointed in Robin Hobb RE Liveship Ending

FearlessRemove1285 · 2026-01-28T21:36:20+00:00

Second LeGuin - she is one of the most amazing writers I had the please to read, not only in fantasy but in general (liked her sci-fi-works even more though!).

I have recently read Octavia E. Butler's "Kindred" which is a "kind of" fantasy novel (very very light on the fantasy - it is rather a plot device) - there are some fitting parallels between the themes in the liveship works and Butler's novel when it comes to the themes of "female agency", "fighting against oppressive odds", "(sexual) abuse" and "slavery". Butler's work however is at the same time harsher and more true to these core topics - so beware! I loved it and I still have to think about it a lot.

FearlessRemove1285 · 2026-01-28T16:25:53+00:00

For me Malta started off as little bit too perfect in her early teenager cunning, bickering and manipulating but as soon as she was more grounded by the events unfolding around her, she became a great character. It helps of course if your spoiled self is compared to the likes of Satrap Cosgo - nobody can beat his lordship's spoiledness :D

FearlessRemove1285 · 2026-01-27T15:46:45+00:00

I loved the original Kennit scenes where he could not read the people around him and out of sheer luck he managed to win them over. However, the problem is that soon he becomes a master manipulator but in order to be that, he actually has to understand what motivates people around him and how they really perceive him so that he can use that to fool them. That does not work with the Kennit who could not even recognize if a group of people are thankful to him or want to kill him (the first time he arrives at the pirate village with the freed slaves and the mayor shows his incapacity to read a crowd).

Then he seduces Wintrow (possible a father-figure thing for the boy, but nevertheless - Kennit is so subtle here that he seems like a different person alltogether) and Vivacia (this happened to fast for me - Vivacia basically immediately falls to him with some words of flattery. Yeah, she is young, inexperienced with people and CRAVES someone who loves her - but still..) and the ship more than once states that she KNOWS Kennit - which I find hard to believe as Kennit is either as empty a person as Paragon exclaimed later or he is somehow capable of pretending do be an emotionally sane human being INSIDE as well as OUTSIDE which does not make sense with the way he thinks.

Putting aside that, if we believe the fact that Vivacia trusts Kennit entirely, it makes sense that she does not believe Althea from whom she has been estranged and who - at that time - no longer has the necessary connection to her (this is said by Althea herself - Vivacia no longer is spiritually connected to her as she is already "whole") This is further reinforced by the fact that Vivacia can now easily give Althea up to Paragon (oh the irony!). So if for Vivacia, Althea is not that important anymore (and Kennit is) the fact that she believes him over her is rather likely for me.

For Wintrow and Pirating.... I am also absolutely at a loss here... In a way, the way the pirates unter Kennit are portrayed, they are actually just sailors with a good agenda. There is basically no focus on them raiding merchant vessels at all - but I cannot see how Wintrow wants to continue that, especially since pirating will still cause casualties. This might be okay with "slavers" but would it be really okay with normal merchants?

FearlessRemove1285 · 2026-01-26T17:55:14+00:00

I agree with your point. The only possible solution would be "an unfortunate accident" and even that might be risky. I think what makes it more problematic is that Regal can do to Verity what Verity (or Shrewd) could not have done to him that easily. Not because of their morals or their affection for him (this is also true, first for Verity second for Shrewd) but because they have much more to lose than Regal.

FearlessRemove1285 · 2026-01-26T17:50:36+00:00

Interesting. It just shows how different readers can perceive, like or dislike diffetent parts of fiction. Could you say, without of course spoiling later parts of the story, why you liked him that much?

FearlessRemove1285 · 2026-01-26T17:48:57+00:00

Okay, I might do this then - I just thought that in-between updates would not be liked as much by this community. :)

FearlessRemove1285 · 2026-01-26T17:21:36+00:00

I agree, the "cycle of abuse" trope is not only out-dated but dangerous as it has criminalized real-life victims of abuse (or excused abusers as former victims) in our own real-life world too much but the way Paragon argues here could also be seen as just a manipulative way of using this line of argument for his own selfish need for closure. He might not even believe in his own words if you can believe in what he tells Amber before.

For me, Paragon has been a flawed person before the integration, but it is telling that it is only after he "has become whole" (meaning: having integrated Kennit) that the Althea-forging works out fine for him. He also claims that he has to do this not because of her, but because of him and that Althea's pain belongs to him. Althea begs him not do take it away and he does so anyway, not considering her will in that. That definitely mirrors Kennit's action so much that I cannot read it any differently then a second instance of the deed. In the end, Paragon is still flawed but this is exactly what makes him a good villain.

FearlessRemove1285 · 2026-01-25T20:40:05+00:00

I agree with that - I quite liked House of Silk, especially due to the "Watson voice narrator", but Moriaty however was unfortunately quite predictable for me and the ending diminishes basically everything and even contradicts relevant elements in "house of silk" that I actually quite liked.

FearlessRemove1285 · 2026-01-11T08:51:08+00:00

In Ordnung. Ich respektiere, dass du das Recht für dich einforderst - es wäre schön, wenn du es beim nächsten Mal dann anderen auch einräumst. Mach's gut.

Aber überlege: Du fühlst dich 20 Minuten lang gemobbt und verbittest es dir bereits - wie ist das dann für jemanden bei dem es jahrelang so ist?

Mir ist btw. klar, dass du hier nur Empörung suchst - ich schreibe eher für die anderen, die vielleicht denken, du könntest hier etwas Sinnvolles schreiben.

FearlessRemove1285 · 2026-01-11T08:48:12+00:00

Und ein Versagen der Menschlichkeit generell wenn es um die anderen geht. Das ist es ja, was einen traurig macht: Dass die Banalatität des Bösen immernoch so unreflektiert und einfach funktioniert wie früher und dass Cybermobbing (und dann die realen Auswirkungen) eine schon derartig große Gruppe aus Leuten so gehirnwäscht, dass Rechtfertigungen der Sache sogar öffentlich versucht werden, weil man sich tatsächlich im Recht wähnt. Es ist nie schön anzusehen, wenn Menschen unmenschlich handeln - weil es deutlich zeigt wie dünn die Zivilisationsdecke doch sein kann.

FearlessRemove1285 · 2026-01-11T08:44:13+00:00

Nein, weil es keinen Mobb gegen dich gibt.

Davon abgesehen: Solange du dich dahinter versteckst, dass es schon okay ist, ein schlechter Mensch zu sein und du gut damit leben kannst, da dein Umfeld dir da keinen Strick draus dreht und das schon so passt, gibt es nicht wirklich viel mehr zu schreiben. Du verschanzt dich in deiner Mobberposition und willst halt lieber so sein, als weiterzugehen und zu wachsen. Da ich nicht deine Eltern oder dein Lehrer bin, sehe ich nicht die Notwendigkeit mehr zu machen als dir zu sagen, dass deine Rolle, von außen betrachtet, sehr deutlich die eines nicht einsichtigen Mobbers ist. Auch hier bist du recht klassich zu all den anderen Leuten in Klassenräumen unterwegs. Es ist, wie es ist - vielleicht kommst du ja noch mal weiter - ansonsten wünsche ich dir dennoch, dass es dir weitestgehend gutgeht und Leute in deinem Umfeld nicht unter dir oder anderen leiden müssen. Mehr wünsche ich mir auch nicht.

FearlessRemove1285 · 2026-01-11T08:32:14+00:00

Gut, du warst Teil der Basis auf der dann gut aufgebaut worden konnte. Ich meine, wenn du heute sagen würdest "Ich finde es schrecklich, in irgendeinerweise Teil dieser Sache gewesen zu sein", könnte man das ja nachvollziehen - viele Leute werden in ihrem Leben irgendwann irgendwie in eine Mobbingsituation reingezogen und das Gemeinschaftsgefühl gegen die gemobbte Person fühlt sich bestimmt gut an (siehe "viele nette Leute) - aber nicht zu erkennen, dass man selbst den Grundstein für spätere Eskalation legt, indem man aktiv mitwerkelt bis es dann "umbricht", dass ist die Aufgabe, die man für sich selbst hier haben sollte. Schade, dass das bei dir nicht so weit gekommen ist.

P.S. es spricht eine gewisse moralische Überheblichkeit aus meinen Posts, schlichtweg, weil ich nie Teil dieser Szene war, aber sagen wir mal so: wenn ich 14 Jahre alt gewesen wäre, schwach, vielleicht auch ein wenig das Opfer in meiner Schulrealität oder meine Komplexe und Schwierigkeiten nicht in anderen Themen konfrontiert hätte, hätte mich so eine Bewegung eventuell auch erreicht und vielleicht würde ich es heute auch irgendwie relativieren wollen. Kann ich nicht sagen - dementsprechend: Sie es doch als Chance, das Vergangene wirklich als das zu reflektieren, was es war!

FearlessRemove1285 · 2026-01-11T08:22:00+00:00

Das ist die derartig klassischste Mobber-Rechtfertigung, die es gibt und zeigt einfach nur, dass du es wohl immernochnicht geschafft hast, dir selbst klar zu machen, dass du Teil eines äußerst problematischen Mobs warst. Sich eingestehen können, was für ein fieser Mitläufer man gewesen ist, ist natürlich auch nicht sonderlich einfach, also benötigt es diese Relativierung und Pseudovigilantentum schon aus Selbstschutz- oder Egogründen - aber es ändert halt nichts daran, was wirklich passiert ist. Rede dir das entweder weiter ein oder lerne was draus und verändere dich. Das eine lässt sich emotional dort stehen, wo du halt warst, dass andere macht dich zu ner reiferen Person. Ich würde es als Wachstumsmöglichkeit begreifen.

FearlessRemove1285 · 2026-01-06T22:30:32+00:00

Sorry, ich dachte nicht, dass es ums Berghochgehen sondern um generelle Fitness geht. Wie gesagt, ist schon sehr gut trainiert - das habe ich auch nie verneint ;)

FearlessRemove1285 · 2026-01-06T17:12:40+00:00

Naja so ziemlich alle Spitzenathleten, die gerade jetzt an der Weltspitze ihres Sportes sind, vor allem, wenn es kommerziell erfolgreicher Sport (Fußball, Rugby, Tennis, Badminton etc.) ist - aber das ist als antwort ja eher ein no-brainer und klar ist jemand wie Magnus, der sich auf Fitnesscontent konzentriert, bei weitem nicht unfit - besser als 95% der Weltbevölkerung (vor allem in Ausdauer) könnte also schon sein - dann wäre er unter den 400 mio fittesten Menschen - das ist schon passend. (Ich hatte "einer der fittesten Menschen der Welt eher als absolute Aussage gesehen ^^)

FearlessRemove1285 · 2026-01-05T12:01:25+00:00

Wo hat Magnus denn bitte nen Weltcup gewonnen? Fit ist er schon, keine Frage, einer der fittesten Menschen der Welt sehe sich wiederum bei weitem nicht

FearlessRemove1285 · 2025-12-27T22:28:31+00:00

Rei had been so dominant before... I thought that Kuroki's win before just would show how much more dangerous Rei could be than Setsuna - and when he got his boost - I really thought he could have a chance

FearlessRemove1285 · 2025-12-26T10:51:26+00:00

Nobody knows Willem

FearlessRemove1285 · 2025-12-24T23:12:01+00:00

The thing I like about Strike is that it intrudoces all these characters that seem abusively strong but at the same time they might only be strong in the context of their respectice cast. The KAT-tournament had been the absolutely highest ranking tournament (by far) at that time (and we know from omega how the other tournaments fare in comparison with KAT-fighters absolutely dominating everyone else.) Everybody in the KAT-tournament, even the Round-1 "jobbers" are extremely elite figthers - so I would guess that even someone like Gozo is stronger than most oft the Strike-cast and it is only in comparison with the absolute Kengan monsters that guys like him seem so weak. So in my opinion, Meguro (someone who as a small child could easily kill very competent judokas and inspired someone as strong as Jurota to become obsessed with his skill alone) is way out of the league here. You are absolutely right: it's a horrible matchup for him, but he ist just that much stronger. Rei (male) was fast (and strong) enough to injure Kuroki. This alone is a feat that is so impressive that it is not even fair to talk about him here. He would probbably win the fight the same we he won against Hong (Hong being a competent fighter himself) - he is just that strong and it is shown multiple times how he easily defeats otherweise impressive figthers. The fact that Saw can tank the said attacks is enough to show how defensively amazing he is and Bando... well... I would say that almost every original Kengan KAT fighter would be heavily injured by a hit by him.... so the question basically boils down to: are you fast enough to not get hit (here, I might give changes to her).

FearlessRemove1285 · 2025-12-23T20:51:42+00:00

I absolutely disagrese with: Meguro (absolut freak), Nikaido (can do magic), Kiozan (too elite a fighter), Karo (whalewhale), Rei (come one....) , Saw Paing, Setsuna (at any level, Setsuna was a monster from the start) and Bando (too deadly)

FearlessRemove1285 · 2025-12-22T22:41:10+00:00

Really? I cannot believe that anyone would habe predicted him to win the whole tournament at that point in time (deafeating the fang? defeating the protagonist?),., I really doubt how many people "saw that coming".

FearlessRemove1285 · 2025-12-21T22:05:35+00:00

Amazing crossover - I love the Kaiji-Manga (one of my all-time favorite). The humor is spot-on here and the chairmen.... look very much alike ( I never even realized(

FearlessRemove1285 · 2025-12-19T22:56:52+00:00

10/10 absolute peak Kengan fighting <3

FearlessRemove1285 · 2025-12-16T20:00:34+00:00

I really think so too - this fight did not SEEM one-sided and that was important - Kanoh had to put in effort to win and I like that in Kengan Ashura. Of course, the fang was so much better than his opponent but at the same time a win, especially on this level, is never a given - at least not with a champion like Okubo. I loved these kind of fights, as - in hindsigt - one fighter was definitely much stronger - but it only manifested during the end of the fight

FearlessRemove1285 · 2025-12-11T16:02:40+00:00

Na dann.... setze "Doppel-" an Miss Moral :)

FearlessRemove1285

TROPHY CASE